Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

    The Christmas Crutchfield catalog shows the CDP-750.  From what
    I can tell, it is basically an evolutionary change from the
    CDP-710, and has 2X oversampling, not 4X.  The big change from the
    710 is dual converters.  It also has "five way music repeat" -
    I'm not sure what the 710 has, but my 510 (a 710 without the keypad
    on the front panel) has at least 3-way repeat (disc, track, phrase).
    (The other two modes are program and shuffle repeat).
    
    The price is also lower - $319 (heck - I paid more than that for
    my 510!)
    
    I am very happy with my CDP-510 - have had it since February.  It
    has played hundreds of disks with no problems whatsoever.  I like
    the construction inside - fairly solid, and it is a quiet machine.
    You may want to go find my earlier note on the 510 (use DIR/TITLE)
    to see what I said about it.

    				Steve

	
	I went to Harvey's Audio, Video and  Appliances on S.  Willow street
	in Manchester NH.  They had just received  a  shipment  of  the Sony
	cdp-750 (and CDP-550).  The price, well it was $299.88.  They didn't
	even have a display model up.  So I told  the  salesman to break one
	out because I really wanted to buy one.  Well sitting  there  on the
	shelf  next  to  where  he  put  the Sony was a Magnavox CDB650  for
	$329!!!.  ($500 list price on this unit!!)
	
	Finally I got to see one.   It  was  time  for  a  show down.  I had
	brought along my trusty headphones and three discs I knew real well.
	(Rodger Waters, Yes and a collection of Baroque  pieces).    Well in
	the  sound  department  these  machines  were very close.   But  the
	Magnavox  was  kinda  plasticky  and that drawer sounded like it was
	about  to  jump track.  Really turned me off.  It had  some  Gee-wiz
	type of programming  functions  (Program your discs into the machine
	in non-volatile memory).   But  how  often  does that get used?  The
	Sony was a more solid  machine  and  the controls were more straight
	forward.
	
	So  what did I do?  Well I saved money and got what  I  felt  was  a
	better  machine,  the  Sony.  (7 day money back policy - how can you
	lose?)
	 
	Well I grabbed  one  of  the boxed units layed down my $300.  Got my
	$0.12 change and rushed home to hook it up.
	
	I unhooked my trusty 2 1/2 year  old  Symphonic  (Yea, thats right!)
	plugged in the Sony, powered it up, slid  a disc in, hit play.  Well
	guess what folks....the Sony was D.O.A.  (Dead On Arrival).   Well I
	sounded  off some profanities.  That laser couldn't find the encoded
	side of a barn.
	
	Well I took  it  back at lunch today and took home the display model
	which hadn't even been fully hooked up yet (Considering I left there
	at 4:45 on a sunday  nite  and  got  back there at noon on a monday,
	nobody touched this unit since I  spent  45 minutes with it the nite
	before.) 

	At least I knew this one worked.   I  would normally chaulk this one
	up to bad luck, but my next door neighbor saw me walking in with the
	box  under  my  hand  and said her boyfriend went through  TWO  Sony
	multidisc  changers last week from Lechemere before getting one that
	worked.  What's up Sony, QC problems, or did this last shipment FALL
	off the dock?
	
	A lesson learned? Who knows, but buyer be ware!
	
	Wish me luck,
	Nick
	

    
    R.E. your -.1 note about SONY, I know this may be disheartening
    but you get what you pay for.  I hang out on the AUDIO notesfile
    and these issues come up all the time.  If you want a player that
    both sounds good and is built well, be prepared to spend at least
    500 bucks and that's not at list price.  The MAGs have a very pleasing
    sound for the money but they had to cut corners somewhere and guess
    where they did...in quality of construction.  The high end SONY
    players are very respected in the trade press.  
    
    If you spend $300 for a CD unit, it's like buying a mid-priced receiver
    instead of separates.  No free lunch.
    
    I usually recommend to folks when they ask about units that they
    either get a good used one or save up for a good one.  You can do
    what I did.  I didn't want to wait when CD first came out so I bought
    a real cheap player for 300 with the idea that I would junk it in
    2 or 3 years which is exactly what I did.  I bought a Mission 7000
    and have been delightfully happy since...
    
    Regards, Jim
    

    I agree with -.1 but I know that there are large numbers of people
    out there who would like a CD player and don't have $500 to spend
    on the player alone (I am one of them).
    
    I have owned a Technics SLP-1 for one month shy of 2 1/2 years.
    The one problem I had was a mistracking one after having it for
    about 4 months (I accidentally turned off the power button while
    it was playing a disc and it caused the problem).  It was sent back
    to the service center (on warranty) and took almost two months to
    get back, but it has not had a glitch since.
    I use the player a minimum of 10 hours per week.  It's been back
    for 22 months since the problem.  That means this thing has run
    flawlessly for (conservatively) the last 880 hours.
    
    The sound and construction may not put it in the Audiophile department,
    but it runs like a champ and sounds good enough to please 98% of
    the people I know (including myself).
    The SLP-1 cost me $299 2 1/2 years ago.  I got what I paid for and
    I'm pleased.
    
             Marty
    

re: Note 961.4
>SALEM::MGINGRAS "Roll Over, Chuck Berry!"
>                        -< Inexpensive does not = junk >-

I agree with inexpensive does not = junk!

>    The one problem I had was a mistracking one after having it for
>    about 4 months (I accidentally turned off the power button while
>    it was playing a disc and it caused the problem).

What happens when there is a power failure?

    regarding last two notes:
    power off does not mean send the unit back for repair.  Mistracking
    does.  I equate sudden loss of power while the unit was playing
    to the mistracking problem because the mistracking started to occur
    the very next time I played a disc.
    
    I haven't made that mistake again (and I'm not curious enough to
    take the chance) and I haven't had a power outage while playing
    discs since I got the player back.  Whether it would create the
    same problem, I don't know.
    
    I like the fact that they player is reliable, but I'm secretly hoping
    it doesn't last tooooo long.  I'd like my next player to have a
    feature that repeats segments of a disc in a loop so I can learn
    guitar and keyboard licks.
    
    I wonder if turning the power off while playing a disc could cause
    a possible mechanical problem in any player.  By the way, the problem
    only occurred after about the 40 minute mark on any disc, the further
    the laser got from the center.
    
      Marty
    
    

    I have powered mine off while playing a disk more than once and
    havent had any mis-tracking/skipping/ect. This happened when I had
    the unit plugged into a switched outlet. I also powered down with
    the unit switch (during user training) with no resulting problems.
    
    -j

	Cuomo's (Salem, N.H.) has the Sony CDP-750 on sale for $280.
	I think the salesman said they had one or 2 left as of last night.

	They also have the CPD-950 on sale for $350.  They had 4 left, but
	only 3 after I was there.. :-).   Cuomos also has a bunch of other
	Sony (and other brands) CD players on sale, until Christmas.  You have
	until Jan. 23 or so to return a unit (instead of the usual 7 days).

	I experimented a bit with the 750 and 950, and found the 950 to have 
	quicker track access.  It also has a larger (by about 50%, at least) 
	display	of disk time, track etc, (good for my nearsighted eyes), 
	variable (remote controlled) line and headphone output, and of course 
	all that Disk Memo programming jazz..

	I didn't think the disk memo would be that useful, but if you leave
	a disk in the player at power-off, and when you power it on you don't
	remember which CD is in the drawer, it shows your label.  (my memory
	isn't that bad!).  You can also use it to leave messages (in 10 letter
	phrases) for your friends :-).

	The 950 is replacing my CDP-302, which is becoming a gift (for a small
	compensation to help me with my 950!) for my brother.  All the  buttons
	on the 950's remote work the 302, and vice versa, except for features
	the player's don't share.
	
			Josh

    Is the 750 being replaced with a 770 (as the 350 was replaced by
    370 and the 550 by the 570)?  If so, has anyone seen one?  Where,
    and what are your impressions?
    
    How 'bout the 950/970?
    
    ScottR, just sold some stock :-)

    I haven't seen any models in the x70 line higher than the 570, but
    that doesn't mean they don't exist.  I notice that Sony seems to
    be bringing the ES line closer to the standard line, so that at the
    point you are considering a "970", you may want to look at a
    507ESD.
    
    				Steve

	Don't know anything about -.1, -.2.

	Have a question about the "total disk time" and ""disk remaining time"
	displays/readout, of Sony/Philips players.

	My Sony 950, and a friend's 750, both read 2 seconds more than the true
	time (according to the jewel box) of a CD, when first loaded into the
	player.  then, when entering "pause" mode so that the  player
	is cued up (pauesed) at the  first track, and hit the "TIME"
	button so you get the "total time remaining" display, get the true
	indicated time (whats on the jewel box).

	My friend (who reads Digital Audio regularly) remembered reading  an 
	article somewhere (DA?) that its just a pecularity of Sony/Philips
	players to do this.  Anyone have any more info? what about other brands?
	How about the Sony portables?

	I've tried calling  the Sony hotline (1-800-222-SONY) but of course its
	always busy (with people asking  about this extra 2 seconds problem, I'd
	expect :-).  Isn't there another Sony number that gets through? (I've
	read  most of the Sony-keyworded notes in this file, can't remember 
	seeing it).

	Of course this is a pretty small nit to pick, but being engineer I just
	kinda wonder about this.  Ya'd think they could at least program the 
	uP to subtract 2 seconds, or sup'tin :-).   BTW, how is the total
	disk time determined, anyway?  Is there a header at the start of the CD,
	and the player keep a count-down from there?

	Another very small nit to pick on my 950 (I'd never use this mode 
	anyway, but I still wonder about it) is the Play Mode function when 	
	using Custom Indexes.  Does not seem to work!  Manual says you can 
	toggle play mode from Continous to Single and back by repeated pressing
	of the Custom Index button, once you've entered C.I. mode (and of course
	you've prgrammed a C.I.).  But, when display says I'm in Single play
	mode, player does not finish the track being played and stop, it
	Continues.   Maybe it needs two Custom indexes to define a track, and
	I've tried this with just one  C.I. so it just plays on... gotta try
	this out...

			Josh
	
	

    The 2 second difference is not a peculiarity of only Sony and Philips.
    I have seen this on at least 3 other manufacturers' players.  The
    only one I specifically remember is an Emerson player.
    
    B

    I don't know about the microprocessors, but I believe that you will
    find that, at their heart, ALL CD players are either Sony or Phillips
    technology.  Along with Denon, they invented it.
    

    Re: .13
    
    Sorry, not true.  First of all, Denon was not involved in the creation
    of the CD standard of today - they had a proposal in, but it was
    rejected.  Secondly, while Sony and Philips drives and electronics
    cover a large segment of the market, they by no means control ALL
    of it.  Yamaha, Toshiba and other Japanese firms have their own
    controller chips.
    
    I have seen differences of much more than two seconds between the
    listed and displayed times on my CDP-510.  As much as 30 seconds
    in one case.  I don't let it worry me.
    
    			Steve

re < Note 961.14 by QUARK::LIONEL "Ad Astra" >
    
>    I have seen differences of much more than two seconds between the
>    listed and displayed times on my CDP-510.  As much as 30 seconds
>    in one case.  I don't let it worry me.

	Aha!  Yes, I've seen that too - I think its errors/inaccuracy in
	the packaging dept.  I'm talking about differences that are seen
	from operating the CD player in two different modes (1. Loading a
	disk, 2. Cuing a disk to the beginning and displaying Remaining Time).

	try again, Steve !  :-)

	Still, anyone have the technical scoop?

		with piqued interest,   Josh

	Here's a thought...

	Did you ever notice that some tracks have a lead-in time?  This may
	show up as negative time before a track starts, or just a countdown.

	With the player in pause mode at the beginning of track one, try a
	backward search.  I bet you can go back 2 seconds before track one
	begins.

	-Dave

re < Note 961.16 by ATSE::DMILLER "Cecil B D'MilleR, the Esoteric" >

>	With the player in pause mode at the beginning of track one, try a
>	backward search.  I bet you can go back 2 seconds before track one

	sounds plausible - I'll try it*.  I was thinking it could be something
	along these lines but couldn't quite grasp it.  But, then since most
	disk total times as printed (at least for classical CDs where more
	care seems to be taken) do agree with the "paused" time, any lead-in
	time is not counted?  

		Josh

*probably the only time I'll use the "slow-search" function on the remote ! :-)

    
    Sounds like two problems here.  I wouldn't worry if the time listed
    on the cover doesn't match what the player says.....I've seen listings
    on LPs that were incorrect by *minutes*.
    
    On the other hand, if "time remaining" at the top of track one doesn't
    equal "total time" read out when inserting the disk, now *that*
    is strange.  I never bothered to check this out on my 750.
    
    Hmmmm....
    
    

    There is indeed often 2-4 seconds of "negative time" before track 1
    (and often other tracks) on most discs.  It would not surprise me in
    the least to find that cueing to track 1 skips this lead-in time that
    is counted in with the total disc time.
    
    Ok, I just tried this with my CDP-510.  Using the disc "A Christmas
    Festival with Arthur Fiedler and the Boston Pops" (RCA 6428-2-RG),
    a wonderful disc by the way, the total disc time reads as 64:10 whereas
    the time remaining when I cue to track 1 is 64:08.  I can't step
    backwards from that point, but I would bet money that there is two
    seconds of lead-in that the player is skipping over.  But why should
    I complain - the cover says 63:59!
    
    				Steve