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Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

Title:Welcome to the CD Notes Conference
Notice:Welcome to COOKIE
Moderator:COOKIE::ROLLOW
Created:Mon Feb 17 1986
Last Modified:Fri Mar 03 1989
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1517
Total number of notes:13349

903.0. "CD rentals" by DCC::JAERVINEN (I never buy beer, I only rent it) Wed Sep 16 1987 04:39

    Some video rental shops here in Germany have started renting CDs.
    
    Looks like at least over here, the legal situation is somewhat unclear
    - the CD publishers obviously run amok but haven't been able to
    take any legal action yet. Of course they try to prevent these shops
    from getting any CDs in the first plase, but that is quite difficult.
    
    Years ago, I remember seeing LP (vinyl) rental ads in British HiFi
    rags. Eventually, I think, it was concluded that it's not legal
    under British law (besides renting vinyl discs is certainly
    problematic).
    
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
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903.1How about the Sound of Music?JANUS::HUDSONWilliam Hudson, REO-G/F2 DTN 830-3101Wed Sep 16 1987 05:4812
    I'm not sure why the situation should be any different for CDs than
    for pre-recorded videos. I suspect that the CD manufacturers haven't
    really thought about it and don't yet have royalty arrangements
    sorted out. It could be that the renters are currently just ignoring
    the problem.
    
    By the way, as far as I understand it, libraries in the UK pay
    royalties each time a cassette or CD is lent (any librarians out
    there know if this is true?). This is possibly another reason that
    libraries often make a nominal charge for lending pre-recorded music.
    
    wrh
903.22B::LESLIENoted ImmoderateWed Sep 16 1987 08:015
    Commercial Record/CD Libraries still exist in the UK and the Public
    Library System lends Records, cassettes, Videotapes and CD's as well as
    books.
    
    In short, don't see a problem.
903.3Free at the public librarySTAR::MCMULLENSee you around the galaxyWed Sep 16 1987 16:255
    As a resident of Nashua, NH, I can borrow three CDs at a time from
    the Public Library in Town for free.  The selection is often
    picked-over, but it's still a great way to audition CDs.
    
    The library also loans out videotapes and LPs.
903.4DCC::JAERVINENI never buy beer, I only rent itThu Sep 17 1987 05:316
    I guess the real problem arises when the DAT recorders hit the market
    (depending on what happens to Copyguard).
    
    Also, it will obviously depend on the price relation of a CD vs.
    blank DAT cassettes...
    
903.5You don't buy the rightsDFLAT::DICKSONNetwork Design toolsThu Sep 17 1987 14:1527
I don't think a library making free loans is a problem.  I think making
a profit from money charged for a loan of a copyrighted work is a problem,
UNLESS an appropriate contract has been worked out between the rental
store and the holder of the copyright.

I'm not a lawyer, but I base this on an article written by a lawyer
explaining the copyright laws.  Basically, the holder of the copyright
does not transfer these rights when a copy of the copyrighted work is
sold.  The holder retains all 5 exclusive rights:

	1.  To make copies
	2.  To distribute copies to the public
	3.  To prepare derivative works
	4.  To perform the work in public
	5.  To display the work in public

Right #1 has a loophole:  you can make backup copies for your own use,
at least according to the Software Act of 1980.  Don't know if this
applies to music.

Could a tape rental store set up seats and show movies and charge an
admission fee?  No: Right #5 says they can't.  How is this different
from charging money to loan the tape (or CD in this case) for people
to take home and see it there?  I don't think it is.  Enjoy it while
it lasts.

If a license agreement is signed, these rules can change.
903.6PSW::WINALSKIPaul S. WinalskiThu Sep 17 1987 18:4624
In U.S. law, there are two kinds of copyrights:  registered copyright and
common-law copyright.  Common-law copyright is intended mainly to protect
works-in-progress and operates as described in .5.  Once a work is published
(copies of completed work distributed), the work must be registered to obtain
copyright protection.  This involves sending a copy of the work to the Library
of Congress.  At this point, the rules change.  There is a "fair use" provision
in the copyright laws that allows scholarly and educational use of excerpts
from the work for non-profit, educational purposes.  I think the law also
covers lending libraries as another special case.  Thus, a teacher teaching a
class can excerpt from or paraphrase a small section of a copyrighted work to
illustrate a point of style, and a scholar can excerpt a work to cite something
it says.  There has been endless legal haggling over how much of an excerpt
is necessary to violate the fair use clause.

Anyway, this is how it works for printed matter.  Recordings may operate
differently, but I don't think so, aside from the additional clauses about
display and performance of the work.  In this case, music is protected by
registered copyright, and so lending libraries are covered.  Members of the
general public have no right to lend the copy they have bought to anybody else.
In the U.S., they do have the right to sell their copy to somebody else.  In
the U.K., resale of books and records is prohibited (at least according to
the copyright notices in several British books that I have).

--PSW
903.7Situation in UKRDGENG::KEDMUNDSSo this is an ellipsis...Fri Sep 18 1987 04:5024
>                                                                          In
>the U.K., resale of books and records is prohibited (at least according to
>the copyright notices in several British books that I have).

    	Quoted (w/o permission, etc):
    
    	Conditions of sale
    
    	1. This book is sold subject to the condition that it shall
    not, by way of trade or otherwise, be lent, re-sold, hired out or
    otherwise circulated without the publishers prior consent in any
    form of binding or cover other than that in which it is published
    and without a similar condition including this condition being imposed
    on the subsequent purchaser.
    
    	2. This book is sold subject to the Standard Conditions of Sale
    of Net Books and may not be re-sold in the UK below the net price
    fixed by the publishers for the book.
    
    	It seems to me that you can re-sell things, but not at a
    second-hand price. I believe that here (in the UK) public libraries
    have a special arrangement, but I'm not sure of the details.
    
    	Keith