Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

    Well, you may not have realized what you were asking for:
    
    There are loads of good recordings of Mahler's symphonies,
    to suit all kinds of taste (good and bad :).  Not knowing
    your biases, I'll assume that they're the same as mine.
    
    The music:
    
    Mahler can be quite long-winded.  I don't find this to be a fault,
    but if you're accustomed to sussinctness in music (e.g. Beethoven)
    it may take some getting used to.  The most common 'starter'
    Mahler symphonies are the 4th (easily the shortest) and the 1st.
    
    Mahler likes singers. The 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 8th symphonies all
    have singers.  all but the 4th have choruses as well as soloists.
    
    If you don't yet care for singing in symphonies, start with the
    1st symphony, then the 5th.
    
    
    
    Recordings:

    I don't have too many Mahler CD's yet.  I can reccommend those
    that I do have:
    
    8th Symphony, Seiji Ozawa, BSO, Phillips.    Ozawa isn't the greatest
    Mahler conductor, but he isn't bad either.  The playing and recording
    and singing are magnificent.  The chorus gives me giant goosbumps
    near the start of the second movement.
    
    10th symphony, James Levine, Philadelphia Orchestra?, RCA.
    This is Cooke's final version of the 'complete' 10th.  It isn't
    pure Mahler (only two movements were completed by Mahler), and
    doesn't sound like pure Mahler either, but is quite effective.
    
    3rd symphone, Eliahu Inbahl (sp?), Frankfurt Radio Symphony, Denon.
    These folks are good.  I was pleasantly surprised, as they aren't
    exactly famous.

    4th symphony, Fritz Reiner, Chicago symphony.  RCA.   Not the greatest
    sound (it's a remaster), and lots of level adjustments on the mike
    levels, but an astounding performance.
        
    General reccomendations for conductors:
    
    Bernard Haitink is wonderful.  I heard him do the 7th with the
    Boston Symphony last year and it knocked my socks off.  Too bad
    that wasn't recorded.
    
    Klauss Tenstedt (sp?) is also very very good.
    
    Jasha Horenstein did a couple of recordings (1st and 3rd symphony)
    in the sixties that are my favorites.  Haven't seen them on CD yet.
    
    Georg Solti is always very good, but rarely best.  I'm not crazy about
    the Chicago symphony -- technically they're as good as it gets,
    but the brass tend to get out of hand.  I like more elegance.
    
    Herbert v. Karajan has done some great Mahler with the Berlin
    Philharmonic.  He has amazing control over the orchestra.  I've
    got a vinyl copy of the 6th that i wonderful.
        

    James Levine is good too -- often uses the Philadelphia Orchestra,
    which is not optimal (but getting better).
    
    Orchestras:  The Vienna Philharmonic still has a certain style
    for this music that isn't usually found elsewhere.  Unfortunately
    they rarely record it.  German orchestras have a brass style that
    suits this music particularly well.
    
        Recordings to avoid:
    
    1st symphony by Slatkin and the St. Louis Symphony.  Lackluster
    performance, poorly recorded by Telarc.  Oh sure, the *sound* is
    good, but the balance is way off.  It sounds as if the mikes were
    too close to the orchestra -- violins are too loud, horns (which
    are very important in this symphony, and must be very loud) sound
    as if they are across the street.
    
   8th Symphony by Solti and the Chicago Symphony.  Alarmingly poor
    string playing from this usually exemplary group.
    

    I don't like Ormandy's way with Mahler
        
    

    I know I've ommitted Bernsteins recordings -- I'm not familiar
    with them.
    
    			George
    

	I picked up the 9th by the Concertgebouw Orchestra directed by
	Bernard Haitink. It also includes "Kindertotenlieder" with
	Hermann Prey. It is an ADD disk but the sound is good and the
	music is performed exquisitely, especially the slow movement.
	It is a double disk by Phillips (416 466-2). I haven't done
	many comparisions but it is probably among the best I've heard.

	- Sudhir.

Slatkin's recording of the 2nd on Telarc is positively magnificent.

Karajan's recording of the 9th on DG is very good.

/john

    People either seem to love Mahler or hate Mahler.  Personally, I think
    that Mahler is one of the most over-rated composers
    who, unfortunately, is often compared to the much under-rated Bruckner.
    The only things the two have in common are that their works are
    long and that they were unplayed for years.  Mahler's should have
    stayed that way.    
    
    Mahler's symphonies, especially those with chorus, are long-winded,
    wining blobs of nothingness.  Most are played only because of the
    carnival atmosphere ( ala classic Berlioz ) that a massive orchestra
    and chorus conjure up.   
                          
    I agree with .1, that if you are still interested in Mahler try #1 and
    #5 first.  #10 is also intersting, although much of it was written
    by Deryck Cook.  If you are interested in massive works without
    dribble try Bruckner instead.
          
    

    RE: .-1
    
    Don't be so shy! If you have something on your mind, say it (;-))
    
    Stu
    

    re .4
    
    I adore Bruckner AND Mahler -- must be something wrong with me :).
    
    Mahler songs are good too, especially �Lieder eines Fahrenden
    Gesellen� (sp?).  I like Frederica v. Stade doing these (CBS,
    no CD that I know of).
    
    			George

    In re-reading my reply (.4) it seems I was just a little to harsh
    on poor Gustav.  .0 did ask for comments on the music though.  I'll
    try to be a little gentler here.

    The NYP was probably the organization most responsible for the
    Mahler revival.  Their program notes and articles in the Times
    tend to give the impression that if you don't love Mahler there
    must be something wrong with you.  The Times did an informal survey
    of prominent musicians that asked what are the most over and under
    rated composers.  One person said "I would say Mahler but I'm afraid
    of being killed".
        
    Mahler seems to be one of those composers people either seem to
    love or hate.  I would put Bax, Delius, and Scriabin
    in the same catagory.  My recommendation would be to get recordings
    of the 1th and 5th symphonies.  They are by far the easiest to swallow.

    I agree with .4. The most interesting melody in any of Mahler's
    symphonies is the Finale of the Resurrection Symphony (#2), and
    he stole that from a postlude he'd heard at a funeral.
    
    Ken....
    
    P.S. Beethoven and Brahms are underrated......
    
   

    I haven't the ambission to rant at Mahler's detractors, so to
    the point -
    
    Re: .1 - Yes, the Solti/Chicago Symphony recording of the 8th is
    a dog.  I can think of nothing positive to say about it.  The
    soprano soloist is unbearable.
    
    The best Mahler I've heard is from Vaclav Neumann conducting
    the Czech Philharmonic.  The 3rd is especially nice.
    
    I agree  that the 1st is a good place to start with
    Mahler.  I can't understand why Mahler is as popular as he seems
    to be at the moment - musically he is not as accessible
    as, say, Mozart.  He certainly wouldn't appeal to the 'Pops'
    mentality (or lack of one).  I find it necessary to dig through
    the scores to really understand the form of the music (especially
    in the 8th).
    
        Walt
        
   

    re.4
    
    John, I agree that Mahler is over-rated, but to compare Berlioz
    to Mahler is unjust.  As a matter of fact, Berlioz is very much
    under-rated for the quality of works he has put out.  Yeah sure,
    his music is usually on a grand scale, but that's probably the 
    only similarity between him and Mahler.  Mahler never came close
    to Berlioz's compositional skills and melodic inspirations. 
    
    Some of Berlioz's music was so revolutionary that they were not
    accepted by his contemporaries, much like some of Beethoven's.
    
    I don't know how much you have listened to Berlioz;  I have both
    Mahler's and Berlioz's music, and I would rather listen to Berlioz
    anytime over Mahler.  Try Berlioz's Bevenuto Cellini, The Childhood
    of Christ, Requiem, Symphony Fantastic, Symphony Funebre, Harald
    in Italy... much more diverse than Mahler's symphonies, songs!
    
    Charles
    

    
    I just bought Mahler's 1st Symphony on CD.  A 1986 CBS recording,
    performance by the Wiener Philharmonic conducted by Lorin Maazel. I'm
    not much of a Mahler fan.  In fact, before I bought this disc I had
    never before consciously listened to a note of the man's work. This
    sounded really good, and the piece kept me interested. 
    
    There's a little design on the cover announcing that this is part
    of the "Mahler Symphony Cycle"  It seems like this is going to be
    the first of a series of recordings.
    
    DFW

    761.9 : "I haven't the ambission "
    
    'ambission'?  Today I have become an engineer.  After 7 years in
    University, and two degrees in classical Greek and Hebrew, I
    have finally managed to become an illiterate.  God knows, they'll
    probably promote me.
    
    Time for a few fingers of single malt and Mahler's 9th.  
    
    Walt

    RE: .10
    
    When I was comparing Mahler to Berlioz I was refering to the excess
    in size that Berlioz desired as a conductor, not as a composer.
    For example, when Berlioz described his ideal orchestra,
    it consisted of a thousand members ( he must have anticipated Mahler's
    8th).  He was also known for conducting festival performances with
    huge orchestras and chorus.
    
    As a composer, Berlioz was literally sixty years ahead of his time. 

    Well, Last night I bought a copy of Mahler's first by Lorin Maazel
    and the Vienna Philharmonic.  Seems they're out to record the whole
    set (the cover says 'Vienna Mahler Cycle' or some such).  Anyway,
    it's a dandy.  As I hinted before, the Vienna Philharmonic has a
    wonderful feel for this music.  I know this piece to well to be
    entirely pleased with anyone else's interpretation, but Mr. Maazel
    does a fine job.  Recording is good, but not the greatest (I've
    heard persistant complaints about CBS's sound -- this is very
    ordinary CD sound -- I've heard much worse and much better).
    
    I saw recordings of the 1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th by these folks in
    the store -- I'm tempted to go back for more.
    			George
    

Several replies and more than a year ago, George Chaltas mentioned the
Horenstein recording of the Mahler's 1st as his favorite (This was on
Nonesuch, I believe, and with the Vienna Philharmonic).  This recording is
also one of my all-time favorites, and I wore out the LP I bought in 1971
and started  in on another a few years ago.  I was lucky enough many years
ago to get an Advent "Process CR-70" casette tape� version of this
recording, and would like to get it on a medium more likely to survive the
years and repeated playings.

Since it's been more than a year since George posted his note, perhaps there
is another answer to this question:  has that recording been made available
on a CD?


----
�This has nothing to do with CD's, but in case anyone is curious:  in the
mid-'70's Advent came out with a short-lived line of prerecorded casette
tapes with magical (for cassette) audio qualities.  As I remember, the
original recordings were mostly from Nonesuch (and perhaps other "economy"
labels.  These were recorded on CrO2 with Dolby B, and the audio quality was
better than I was ever able to achieve with my own recording equipment (I'm
not a audiophile by any stretch of the imagination).  To my plebian ears the
sound was almost (but not quite) as good as the LP.  And of course, no
dropouts (take that, DG!).  I got the Mahler recording and a recording of
Baroque Concertos for Organ and Trumpet before the line disappeared.

    RE: -.1
    
    Schwann's does not list the Horenstein performance of the first.
    It doesn't list any Horenstein Mahler recordings, in fact.
    
    -Rich

    
    	A couple of weeks ago, I went to listen to Mahler's 2nd, and
    I went with some doubts not being very familiar with the composer
    and never having heard that particular symphont before.
    
    	It was performed by a local (Mexican) orchestra called "Orquesta
    Sinf�nica del Palacio de Miner�a" which is a very good orchestra,
    and usually conducted by Luis Herrera de la Fuente who is the conductor
    of the Oklahoma Symphonic Orchestra, and since the season for this
    orchestra is during summer, it allows a lot of foreign (mostly
    american) players to come and play here.
    
    	But this time the orchestra was conducted by (I forgot the first
    name) Kaplan, and I have to say I liked the work very much and was
    surprised, not knowing what to expect. After the concert I learned
    that Kaplan is supposed to be one of the best Mahler's conductors
    and absolutely the best one when it comes to the 2nd. Symphony
                                                
    	Does anyone have more information about this? Is there a CD
    available of the 2nd. Symphony directed by Kaplan?
    
    							Mauricio
    
    P.S. The chorus was also very good and it was formed only a couple
    of weeks before the concert, this weekend they performed Beethoven's
    9th, and though I didn't assist I heard great comments.