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Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

Title:Welcome to the CD Notes Conference
Notice:Welcome to COOKIE
Moderator:COOKIE::ROLLOW
Created:Mon Feb 17 1986
Last Modified:Fri Mar 03 1989
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1517
Total number of notes:13349

680.0. "Musical Concepts modifications?" by NANUCK::PEREZ (Batches, we don't need no stinkin' batches) Sun Mar 15 1987 15:59

    I hope this is an appropriate spot for this series of questions.
    If not, aim me at the right conference and I'll post this there.
    
    I have seen discussions in earlier of a "Musical Concepts" modified
    Magnavox CD player.  Evidently this involves replacing caps, and
    possibly other components.  

    Can someone describe what the changes are and their comparative
    cost for performance change?
    
    Is this only for Magnavox?  
    
    Is there any reason to believe that modifying my Denon DCD-1500 (if
    feasible or possible) would improve its performance? 
    
    I seem to remember folks talking about performing the same kind
    of operations on preamplifiers, amplifiers, etc.
    
    What is involved here, and what REAL AUDIBLE gains will I realize
    for the $ spent?
    
    I also read the earlier note about pads and other items to improve the
    performance of the CD player.  Has there been any resolution to the
    discussion about improving performance using add-on materials? 
    
    As my stereo is only a couple months old I am curious about changes.
    Like (I presume) everyone else, I am looking for the most bang for
    the buck.  My current equipment is composed of the Onkyo 8087
    integrated amp, Onkyo TA-2090 Cassette deck, DENON DCD-1500 CD player,
    and Klipsch Forte' speakers.  Where should I concentrate on
    modifications to improve the sound?
    
    Thanks,
    Dave P.    
    
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680.1DSGN01::GOODWINSend lawyers, guns, and money... Mon Mar 16 1987 11:5062
    RE: .0
    
    There is a lot of discussion on the Musical Concepts modifications
    in DSSDEV::AUDIO notesfile. But, Since you brought it up some people
    in this conference might find it interesting.
    
    Occasionally notes are entered into this conference by record lovers
    saying that CD don't sound as good as records. Well they are partially
    correct. But it is because of the CD player rather than the CD itself.
    The Manufacturers of CD players have applied digital design and
    manufacturing techniques to the analog circuitry. This results in
    a product that does not even come close to the potential of the
    Compact Disk.
    
    In defense of the CD player manufacturers: They are trying to build
    a commercial product. That is they are making tradeoffs on exploiting
    the capabilities of the CD to the fact that most stereo systems
    do not have the capability of reproducing the dynamic range of the
    CD nor would the average listener know the difference. They are
    marketing their players on the druability of the Compact Disk itself
    i.e. not scratches, skips, etc. What the Musical Concepts modifications,  
    or any other company for that matter, do is to correct for the 
    tradeoffs made in the CD player.
    
    The modifications are in two areas: The power supply/digital - analog
    isolation, and component quality. In all the CD players I have seen
    to date the same power supply(transformer) is used for the motors,
    digital and analog circuitry. A lot of players are using surface
    mounted components and there is no seperation of the digital and
    analog circuitry. What musical Concepts mods do is to use the existing
    powersupply fo the digital logic and motors only. The power for
    the analog sections is provided by a high quality, low impeadence
    regulator and a torriodal transformer. This adds greater depth and
    tightness to the bass and clarity to the mid and high end. 
    
    The passive components used in the analog section are changed to
    high quality film(polypropylene) capacitors and metal film resistors.
    The electrolytic DC blocking cap is replaced with film capacitors.
    This greatly improve the clarity of the high end and eliminates
    some of the harshness caused by the filters, which is what most
    record lovers hate about the CD.
    
    **NOTE. A discussion on how the use of different capacitors can
    make a difference in sound quality is well beyond the scope of this
    discussion. All I will say is it is due to dielectric absorbtion
    and effective series resistance. For those interested in reading 
    more I recommend reading "Picking Capacitors by Walt Jung and Richard 
    Marsh, AUDIO, Feb, Mar 1980**. 
    
    I have heard an a Magnavox (I do not know which model but it cost
    $140) that was modified as describe above. I have been auditioning
    many CD players to upgrade to and there hasn't been one in any price
    range that can compare to that modified magnavox. So I am buying
    a magnavox player and having it modified. 
    
    For all the skeptics who don't believe that powersupplies and
    capacitors can make a difference all I can say is I was one. I do
    not have what is called "golden ears". I actually have some hearing
    loss. The difference that these mods make are incredible.
    
    I do not have the prices with me so I will reply to this note with
    the prices for modifications and the address for Musical Concepts.
680.2re BANG FOR YOUR BUCK!MDKCSW::TERRYTue Mar 17 1987 17:2314
    First of all...go active on your x-over!!!!!!!1111
    
    Second... there is an outfit in St. Louis, Missouri that will 
    make modifications ranging from new caps to hot-rodded filter stages.
    the price ranges from $180.00-$500.00 for ANY player.
    
    I think the name of the joint is Musical Concepts.  GOOD LUCK!...BT 
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
680.3NSSG::KAEPPLEINTue Mar 17 1987 17:5532
    I used to be a skeptic too, and now own Musical Concepts modified
    Hafler DH110 preamp, DH-500 amp, and Magnavox 1041 cd player.
    Back in note 179 I wrote a lot of stuff about modifying (how to)
    players.  Much of it is now outdated.  Stock CD players have improved
    greatly and I havn't heard an objectionable one in a long time.
    
    The biggest single thing to change are DC blocking capacitors. 
    These exist in just about all consumer audio electronics.  Cost
    sensitive manufacturers use electrolytic type capacitors costing
    a few pennies instead of paying several dollars for low-loss film
    type capacitors.
    
    Your CD player has them and your integrated amp probably has several
    sets.  Just getting the CD player modified may not buy anything
    if the amp won't let you hear it.
    
    How does it sound different?
    1.  Tighter bass.  better defined, less overhang.
    2.  Less midrange "edge"/"glare"/"grain".  Less listening fatigue
    		kind of like florescent vs incandescent lighting.
    3.  More detail.  Those caps absorb and lose fine details.
    4.  Greater dynamics.  Electrolytics absorbing energy again.
    
    
    If you order a service manual, I tell you what to change and even
    supply some of the parts.  Goes for the amp too.
    That's the very cheap solution.  Musical Concepts' modified Magnavox
    460 would be better, but...
    
    Musical Concepts phone #is 314-831-1822.  Engineers are on the phones
    2-6pm EST (1-5 Missouri time).