Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

I don't remember the model number but I read that some new Magnavox is now
using 16 bits in the DAC and that they're also using some signal shaping
circuitry to give you 18 bit performance.  This is all based on what they did
before when they only used 14 bits plus wave shaping to get 16 bit
performance.

Another new feature was the memory they're using that remembers the playback
sequence of some 200 discs...so the next time you play that disc you don't
need to re-key the sequence.

Dick

    The model is CDB-650.  It has been reviewed in Digital Audio, and
    there's some comments on it in this conference.  It's not clear that
    Magnavox's construction quality has improved any.
    				Steve

        I've been offered the CDB-650 for $350 in a local mid-fi salon. I
        haven't checked elsewhere, but the lower units are even less
        expensive, and will likely drop further in the comming months.
        Most of the high end 2041 based players will likely be moving to
        the new 16 bit players soon. I know that the CAL Tempest (tube
        analogue) will have a new player at the winter CES. 
        
        When I was in St Louis two weeks ago, I visited John Hillig of
        Musical Concepts. He had both the -650 and the -4x0 with his mods
        installed in them. I didn't get a chance to listen to both, and
        wasn-t at all familiar with his system, so I can't say how the
        -650 I heard stacks up to other players. When I asked him about
        differences between the two players, he said that they were
        features only, but he thought that the lower end -4x0 sounded a
        bit better than the -650. he thought that all of the extra
        features, processors, etc. might in some way "distract" the power
        supply, or create extra noise in the system. 

        If the 4x0 and 650 are sonic improvements over the 2041, then I
        haven't heard the Japanese CD player (save the Phillips based
        Kyocera / Nakamichi) that will even come close to them in sound
        quality. I may have a chance to compare the (stock) 2041 to one of
        these on a very high end system soon. If I do, I'll let you know
        how they stack up. 

As an  owner  of  the 1051 (a happy one), I still can't see spending $400 if
the  construction  quality  hasn't  improved.  At $200 a CD player is almost
disposable, but not at $400.

Anyway, can  one  really  hear the extra two bits? Has anyone out there done
A/B testing on 14(shaped to 16) vs 16(shaped to 18)bit players?

    How does this player get 18 bit resolution from 16 bits?  Is there
    some type of mathematical approximation?  What is the maximum error?
    Can you tell the difference?
    
    
    						-Paul
      
    

	Re: .4
        
        We just picked up our 2041 last night. While we were there, we
        took the oportunity to compare it to the new 16 bit players. I
        didn't check which model we were listening to, but I think it was
        the top end -650. The rest of the system was British (Musical)
        Fidelity electronics, and Acoustat speakers. We had less than an
        hour to listen to this system, and I could not hear any
        differences. I don't think my wife really heard any differences
        either. 
        
        If there are any improvements (or losses), they are very small,
        and I wouldn't suggest someone rush out and replace their 2041
        with a new 16 bit player. Now if you don't have a good player, the
        new 16 bit units might be worth considering, depending on the
        price. 
        
        I don't know what the new players are being discounted to; the low
        end 360 and 460 both list for the same $279 as the 2041. I paid
        $130 for the 2041, and should get a $15 rebate. The 560 adds
        remote and the price goes to around $330, and the top 650 has FTS
        and lists for $429. For now, we will live with the 2041, and may
        make a mod or two. 
        
        RIP (that's Pieces) D-5 :-( 

        Well, Bob, I hope you have better luck with your 2041 than
        I've had with mine.  The fool thing won't track a number of
        disks that the D5 plays just fine.  The number of disks having
        the problem is slowly escalating, too.  Only thing that they
        all have in common is that all the problem disks were manufactured
        in Japan.  
        
        I am sufficiently disgusted with the mechanical construction
        of the Magnavox to never buy another one. I also have some
        doubts about it's ability to do error correction. Too bad,
        too, since all the 'high-end' players I've been thinking about
        are Magnavox based.
        
        Oh well, back to the drawing board.
        
        Dave

    
    My first endeavor into the wonderful world of CD players was with
    a recent order of a Musical Concepts CD-1 based upon the Maggi CDB-650
    This was somewhat of a spontaneous decision as I was unable to demo
    it.  However, Musical Concepts has a good reputation and their prior
    mods have been to their credit. i.e. cd mods, hafler, etc..  Locally,
    (burlington, Vt.) all that was availible of hi-fidelity was the
    PS Audio, NAD and Nakamichi series.  Dealer wasn't really even demoing
    PS's machine (which was surprising with the Stereophile rave reviews
    and the way the dealer pushes PS equipment), the NAD was ok and
    the Nak was nice but way overpriced for given performance.  
    
    I did finally find the name of a dealer who sold some of the Maggi
    products in VT however, when contacted, he had just hear of CD players!
    and bringing up a particular model number, etc threw him into a
    tizzie; he's gone back to selling TV's....
    
    Anyhow, I expect the CD-1 early January, will let folks know of
    the results.  Once my ears become "tuned" to it I plan on doing
    another level of modification.  Something on par with Musical Concepts
    LIPS II (low-internal-power-supply) and their outboard OPS-4B power
    supply.  I'm planning on building my own but I need to talk to Musical
    Concepts about this as I'm concerned about warranty ramifications..
    
    Updates later...
    
    Tom

    
    Where did you get a 2041 for 130$?
    
    						.dave.

        McDade here in Chicago (I don't know if they are in the Boston
        area, but they are equivalent to Service Merchandise) has them on
        sale for $139.95 - $15 rebate from Magnavox. What I actually
        bought was a "renewed" unit for $129.95 - $15. Magnavox
        manufacturers its CD players in Belgium, and actually opens them
        up and q/c checks them before sending them on to their dealers.
        Ones with minor defects are fixed and sold for less. maybe that is
        what some of the bargain outlets sell without telling the
        customer, as there is really no way to tell anything was ever done
        to the unit. 
        
        BTW, the rebate is good on most Magnavox CD players bought between
        November 22 and December 28. Models are the 1041, 1051, 2041, and
        the new 460, 560, and 650. You need your dated sales receipt, the
        "warranty registration" card, and the form itself. I called the
        local Magnavox office to get the form. 
        
        Dave, is your problem a "scraping" sound on the thicker disks.
        Another 2041 player I borrowed had a similar problem. It didn't
        like any of the thicker (better) disks that had played fine on my
        late D-5. Problems were on disks like Reference recordings,
        Sheffield, Telarc, etc.; poor disks like DG all played fine. One
        Magnavox dealer told me this was a common problem with the old
        transports; straight out of the box. I think it might come from
        being bounced around too much in shipment. The plastic chassis
        doesn't help; lifting one corner of the player makes it worse.
        Supposedly this has been fixed on the new models. If yours is
        still under warranty (1 year I think), then by all means let
        Magnavox fix it for you. Given their current prices, I wouldn't
        bother with an out-of-warranty repair. 

    
    I saw an ad in the San Francisco Chronicle for Maggie 1051's for
    $85, after the rebate.  Not bad, eh?  Can't remember the store,
    but it was in Saturday's paper....

        You had to buy your Maggie by last Sunday to get the rebate!