Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

    
    I don't know exactly what the problem is but I have had similar
    symptoms with mine.  Have you tried playing it on its side?  That
    sometimes works.  The other problem I have noticed is overheating.
    If the bottom of the player is warm then letting it cool might get
    it to work.
    
    Good Luck
    
    Doug

    
    My friend Betsy's D-7 caught the same thing at 90days>time>1year.
    Sony repaired it, free parts, pay for labor. Wonder when my D-5
    will catch the bug.  - Chris

    RE. .1
    
    I have a D5 and purchased a Service Manual.  It's long and tells
    you how to take it apart, but you don't want to know, it's a pain.
    I took it apart to rip out the DC blocking caps.  I was careful
    and it still works (between taking out the electrolicis caps and using
    good interconnects it sounds reasonable enough so I don't want to
    toss it out the window anymore, and please no more about caps and
    interconnects, OK?)  Then again, it can't hurt to take it apart,
    it doesn't work now anyway.
    
    Does anyone out there have an oscilliscope that I could use to do
    some of the adjustments?

    KC

        Re: .1 
        
        Sideways didn't make any difference last night when I tried it.
        Niether did "helping" it by manually spinning the disk before
        closing the box and trying to start. Heat, etc. are not the
        problem. It doesn't run at all, so it never has a chance to get
        hot. 
        
        Re: .2
        
        What did they replace on her D-7? Might give me an idea of
        what I need to look at. paying for parts is better than paying
        for parts AND labor.
        
        Re: .3
        
        How much was the manual, and how long did it take to get it from
        Sony? Would you "loan" the manual out for a few days? Can you at
        least give me a hint as to how to get into the thing? Maybe its as
        simple as a belt, dirt, or something fixable without spending big
        $$$ and dealing with Sony. 

        I can get a scope any time I need, by asking my local F/S
        contacts, but a scope here in Chicago won't help you much out
        in New England.

    
    re .2:
    
    90 days>time>1year ???
    
    (it just gave me a chuckle :-))
    

    My experience with Sony service hasn't been too good.  (I had two
    refurb CDXR7 units, one never worked and the other one broke twice).
    The guy I talk to at MP's Electrinics World in Framingham said that
    Sony may not have their CD repair people up to snuff since the have
    had trouble with CDXR7, D5, and home units getting repaired properly.
    They use the Westwood service center -- is it the only one in New
    England?

        The problem here sounds like the one that did in my D5. The
        problem, I am told is fairly common to the D5s, but my case was
        unique in the repairman's experience in that he couldn't get it
        fixed and had to replace the unit.
        
        The problem is that the laser unit which normally returns to the
        center after playing each disc gets stuck near the outside.
        Often, the firs time it catches in the middle and frees itself
        if you stop and start it. Eventually it stops jammed to the
        outside. Whatever they do to fix it it works the first time in
        all cases except mine. After three attempts to fix it and
        pouring more $ in parts into the sucker than I spent on it
        originally, they said they'd have to replace it.
        
        I bought it at Service Merchandise and had it fixed at the Sony
        shop in down in Westwood, MA. It cost me $135 at S.M. with a
        pair of Sony M33 headphones costing me <$50. The Sony shop
        loaned me a D5 until mine showed up, which was supposed to be
        "in a couple of weeks". It actually took more like 6 or 7 weeks,
        but the unit was mailed to me from Tokyo. I guess they don't
        have any more over here. 
        
        The nice surprise was that I got a whole D5S to replace just the
        D5 itself. As a result, for $180 I got: a D5, the old-style
        transformer, a pair of M33s (my original purchase), the new
        Deluxe transformer, the "tricorder" battery pack, a pair of
        M55s, and assorted cables. When my wife returned the loaner
        they'd forgotten that they loaned it to us, too, so I could have
        been even luckier if I'd been willing to rip them off. As it was
        I seem to have gotten the deal of the century on my D5. 
        
        JimB.

    I've had my D5 for a little over a year and a half, and it's given
    no trouble until tonight. Naturally, I immediately turned here for
    help. After re-reading several notes, including Kaplow's tale of
    woes, I thought maybe he or someone else here might have seen this
    before. It's very peculiar.
    
    I had Dave Grusin's "Out of the Shadows" on tonight and suddenly
    realized it had been playing for about an hour and a half. (OK,
    I wasn't exactly listening critically.) 2:47 into the 8th track
    it stopped, rewound to the beginning of the first track, and started
    over! D5's don't have this feature. I fast-forwarded to the same
    spot - same thing every time. I fast forwarded to 2:48, and it
    finished the disk and stopped, just like it should. I tried the
    same thing on my Magnavox 1041 and it played through just fine,
    with no audible problem at 2:47. On both machines there is a barely
    audible tick at 2:44. It's kind of hard to guess where the equivalent
    physical position is on other discs, but it only seems to happen
    on this one.
    
    Cleaning the disc and dusting the inside of the D5 had no effect.
    
    Any guesses?
    
    -Tom

    RE: .8
    
    I haven't tried this yet but I have been assured that it is a surefire
    way to fix the D-5.
    
    Take the owners manual and place it in the middle of the basement
    floor. Light the manual on fire and chant the words "nacirema yub".
    Keep chanting untill the manual is completly burned to ashes. scoop
    up the ashes leaving a few on the spot where it burned. Take and
    mix the ashes from the manual with the cloves of 11 buds of garlic.
    mash these until it is a black paste. You must then smear this paste
    over your entile body while chanting "nus gnisir eht knis". when
    this is done place the D-5 on the ashes that where left on the floor
    from the manual. place 5 candles in a circle about 2 feet in diameter
    around the D-5. Take and sacrifice a chicken. With the claw of the
    chicken draw a line with the blood of the chicken between each of
    the candles forming a pentagon. Draw the sony logo over your heart
    and start running in a circle counterclockwise around the D-5 while
    chanting "toidi na ma i". Do this for three minutes. Roast the chicken
    at 375 degrees F for 90 minutes. While the chicken is cooking wash
    with a herbal scented soap. When the chicken is done eat i. After
    dinner go to the local stereo shop and buy a new CD player and pray 
    that the salesman doesn't ask you why you smell like an antipasto.
    
    It may seem like an lot of bother to do just to get a new CD player
    but it is absolutely necessary to do to drive away any evil spirits
    from the sony.
    
    [ed. note this also will drive away spouses and frighten little
    children so make sure noone is watching you when you perform this]
    

    re: .9
    
    Hey! You're right! It worked! But now that I've burned the manual,
    can anyone suggest what I should do when it happens again?
    
    Tom

    So, Oh High Idealed One who hath spake in .9, dost thou know of
    any "nacirema" CD players to buy??  I think that's in the same class
    as buying an "nacirema" car; I don't know of one that is 100%...
    
    				Vernon
    

    I think I have located the cause for many a D-5 disaster. The D-5
    manual claims that it has a "Auto-Off" power feature. This is not
    true, when the player is not playing it does go into a power saving
    mode, but there is a still power to a good number of the components.
    
    If you leave your D-5 powered on (power switch in the on position),
    it will draw enough power to waste a set of batteries in a matter
    of days. Leaving it on AC power for weeks on end will bring your
    D-5 close to death.
    
    I have suffered one failure with my D-5, it was chip related. When
    I quizzed the man at Sony, he did explain that the D-5 was not built
    for a high duty cycle, and leaving it power on all the time could
    cause problems.
    
    							--- Neal

    Re: .12
    
    I find this quite surprising.  My D-5 is ALWAYS powered on - for
    months at a time - from the AC line.  It's going on two years old
    now and never a problem.
    					Steve

    re: .12
    
    I also have had one, with the power on, for almost 2 years. The
    thing that worries me is that just because you mentioned this problem
    mine will start to malfunction
    
    paul

    re .14: you should cover your D5 while reading notes! you never
    know what ideas it might be getting!
    
    ...tek

    Following is another trouble story on the D5. It's a note I put in the
    CD conference in Valbonne, France. I bought my D5 in NY for $190 plus
    tax. The other prices mentioned are in French Francs, worth about 6 to
    the dollar at the moment. 
    
    I figured I'd check out this conference to see if anyone else had a
    similar experience, and find that they have. Apparently service is okay
    while you're still covered by warrantee, but gets really lousy after.
    I'm planning to call Sony in Tokyo to let them know that up to 70000
    employees at my company (which shall go unnamed but which is in the
    high tech business, and therefore has many potential Sony customers)
    will be reading about lots of problems with the D5, and rotten service.
    If I don't get some positive response, my recommendation to people who
    are either in the same position, or are about to buy a new Sony unit,
    will be to forget it. If it's a repair, write off the D5 as a loss, and
    buy a new unit from another manufacturer (are there any others we
    should watch out for?). 
    
    By the way, if anyone else feels like calling Tokyo before I do,
    the number (from Mass) is: 011-81-3-488-2111
                               ^   ^  ^ ^
                               |   |  | |
    Int'l dialing code --------+   |  | |
    Japan country code ------------+  | |
    Tokyo area code ------------------+ |
    Sony -------------------------------+

    - Mike
================================================================================
                <<< BISTRO::ETC:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CD_VBO.NOTE;1 >>>
                              -< cd in Valbonne >-
================================================================================
Note 5.0                         Sony D5 a lemon                      No replies
YIPPEE::GLANTZ "Mike"                                32 lines  26-FEB-1987 17:18
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'm really annoyed with Sony, because my D5 blew out (i.e., skips,
    repeats, doesn't load disc) at about 14 months old (out of warrantee).
    I took it into LTZ in Nice (the local authorized repair depot). They
    were friendly and helpful, but ended up having it for 7 weeks before
    figuring out they'd have to charge F1500 to fix it (needs new laser,
    they say). I only paid $200 in the States, so wasn't interested in
    buying my used one back from them for more than I paid for it new. They
    gave it back with no argument.
    
    I've heard this is known to happen to this model. In fact, on the day I
    brought mine into LTZ, another guy was bringing in his completely new
    portable player (the more recent model from Sony) with the exact same
    problem. Then, I was in Amsterdam a week later, and, out of curiosity
    asked in a big Sony retailer if they had heard of the problem. They
    said yes, in fact they had just repaired one (took exactly one week),
    and it was common, and wasn't the laser, but the servo mechanism.

    Getting nowhere fast, here, so I called Sony North American
    headquarters in NY, where they were typically NY friendly, which is
    very untypical of Sony's reputation. They said "If you don't bring it
    into NY, we can't help you at all". All I wanted to know was if this
    was a common problem, and if Sony was planning to do something nice for
    people whose unit was out of warrantee, so they wouldn't have to throw
    it out and go buy one from Philips instead. The obnoxious woman on the
    phone said she had no technical information, and couldn't help me at
    all. I got the number of Sony in Tokyo, but haven't called them yet. 

    Anyone else have a similar experience?
    
    - Mike
    
    PS: So far the moral of the story is don't buy a Sony D5

    Don't make idle threats - a lot of those "70000 employees" own
    D-5s that work just fine, including me.
    
    But who would buy a D-5 today anyway?  They're not being made
    anymore - haven't been for months, at least.
    
    					Steve

 re .-2
        
>    I'm planning to call Sony in Tokyo to let them know that up to 70000
>    employees at my company (which shall go unnamed but which is in the
>    high tech business, and therefore has many potential Sony customers)
>    will be reading about lots of problems with the D5, and rotten service.

        And that action stands you a good chance of getting fired.
        Even with organizations that we do business with, we do not
        try number tactics. If you have a number of friends that are
        upset, and they approve then, well and good, mention them.
        But I sincerely doubt that 70000 people at digital are likely
        to buy an out of date model CD player (or not buy it, on your
        say-so).
        
        
>         I only paid $200 in the States, so wasn't interested in
>    buying my used one back from them for more than I paid for it new.
        
    
	One of the trials of buying while travelling. For the same
        reason, I was happy to pay an extra $100 to get my Canon T-90
        in an Australian Duty free store over the NewYork Mail Order
        Photo Shops.
        
        q

    I've also had nary a problem with my D-5, after over a year and
    a half. Well, it sometimes skips while Velcroed to my dash when
    I hit a stiff bump with the shocks set to MGB mode...
    
    They sold a lot of those - statistically, some break. I have to
    wonder how repairable a unit with so much miniaturization can be -
    when was the last time you had a digital watch repaired?
    
    Of course, if I had a bad one, I'd be whistling a different tune...

    Have no fear, folks, I don't seriously plan to use any leverage based
    on my affiliation with DEC. But that's not the issue. The issue is:
    What kind of service should one expect, in unusual circumstances, from
    a manufacturer that espouses a quality image? 
    
    The situation is this: I (and many other people) have bought a D-5.
    This model seems to have a design problem, and a lot of units fail out
    of warrantee. Any old company can and should do nice things during
    warrantee. A company oriented toward quality service will do nice
    things out of warrantee, especially if there's a known design problem
    involved. In the car business, it's called "recall", but they only do
    it because they're afraid of getting sued. I don't actually believe
    that Sony has any *obligation* to do anything like a recall or
    below-cost repairs. But I also don't have any motivation to continue to
    consider them a customer-oriented manufacturer if they don't. It's
    people who do good things when they're *not* obligated by law or
    contract, which sets them apart as being quality-oriented (or at least
    that's one of the things that sets them apart). 
    
    As I mentioned, some units of their newer portables appear to have the
    same problem. The facts are clear: If you buy a Sony portable disc
    player, there's a fair chance it may fail out of warrantee, and repairs
    may cost you almost as much as the original cost of the unit (buying
    from a "reputable dealer" at higher cost, or "not buying while
    traveling" doesn't change any of this). Furthermore, Sony doesn't
    appear to be willing to acknowledge a design flaw, which its dealers
    know about, by making special dispensation for units which fail out of
    warrantee (maybe a high-priced dealer would, but don't hold your
    breath). They're literally saying "If your disc player fails out of
    warrantee, buy a new disc player or spend the same amount getting yours
    fixed". 
    
    Given that, and given the availability of similar models from other
    manufacturers, how could anyone recommend to buy a D-5 (or its
    successors)? What's worse, it casts some doubt on Sony's reputation
    regarding customer service, and throws them squarely into the camp of
    Average Customer Service. I'm accustomed to this from GM and GE
    (sadly), not from Toyota and Sony. The loss of $200 is easy enough to
    live with. The loss of another quality vendor is harder to take. 

    - Mike

Re .18


Are you trying to say that you can not get fired by giving Sony bad press in 
this notes file, but you can get fired if you tell Sony about it?  Balderdash!
I think the manager that attempted to terminate someone for this reason would 
stand a better chance of getting fired.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mike:

I recently read a couple of letters in Digital Audio about similar problems 
with SONY portable CDs.  The letters were singing the praises of at least 2 
SONY employees who gave good lip service and better follow thru.  I'll look it 
up and send you the info.

By the way, my D7S died of the same problem.  I was fortunate enough to be 
able to return it to Lechmere's even after 30 days for a full refund.  Being 
that it was Xmas time, and ALL portable CD palyers in New England were sold 
out, I waited a few weeks and picked up a Technics SL-XP7.  I still have a 
good SONY unit in my car, but I'm not looking forward to the day when it needs 
service.  My feelings, after reading much of this notes file are that when you 
but SONY, you either get near perfection or not, and if not, Sony service is 
the pits.

						See ya at the quarterdeck
							- JP

    Of all the Sony products I have owned over the years, only ONE has
    ever died on me, and it got fixed (for free) in under two weeks.
    Maybe it's all in the attitude?  My D-5 is still fine, I sold my
    SL-2700 after three years and it too continues to perform perfectly.
    I now have two Sony VCRs, a camcorder, two CD players, a TV and
    a receiver.  They're all wonderful.  For any poison-pen letter you
    write about Sony, I'll sing their praises to the skies.  I'm even
    considering buying some Sony stock!
    
    				Steve

    I have had no problems with my sony D5. I have had it for about
    2 years where it has been either sitting on top of my stereo with
    the power left on ar carried into the office to listen to during
    work. I have heard players that sound much better, but they had
    had major modifications to the circuitry. So before you start throwing
    aroud the weight of a company of 70,000 people you might check with
    the company and its employees first.
    
    paul

    It is my opinion that Sony goods seldom go wrong, but when they
    do and it's outside warranty, you might as buy a new <whatever>.
    
    I say this based on experience of a Walkman, a stereo and a TV.

        As I outlined in 487.7 when I had problems with my D5, Sony
        replaced the D5 unit with an entire D5S (the D5, the "deluxe"
        power supply, a battery pack, and a set of head-phones). This
        was much more than they needed to do. It WAS while the unit was
        under warranty, but I think it shows the right attitude. Service
        on my Sony TV (through an authorized dealer rather than Sony
        service directly) over the last 7 or 8 years has also been quite
        good. 
        
        All of my personal experience says that the company is quite
        reputable and has a good attitude towards quality and service.
        It would appear that others have had a different experience, so
        Sony may have an uneven approach to this. 

    My boyfriend has a D5. He treats it nasty; used to take it to
    work strapped to the back of his motorcycle, and it's used in
    dusty places.  I have a D5 Deluxe, and treat it a bit more
    gently.  Both are about two years old, and both still work.
        
    It is unfortunately true that most cheap (<$200) consumer
    electronics have to be discarded if they break, unless you
    have the skill and tools to fix it yourself.  It would be
    interesting to learn just what percentage of D5's fail in
    two years.
    
    Pat Hardy

    
    Can anyone recommend a Sony servicer closer to Worcester than
    Lechmere's in Framingham?  My D7 has developed an assortment of
    quivering awfuls.  I've already tried the Hi Fidelity House, but
    they don't work on anything they didn't sell.
    
    The unit was orginally purchased at a Lechmere's.
    
    DFW

I am quite familiar with the Sony Regional repair center.  It is not
anywhere near Worcester, unfortunately.  It is on University Avenue off 128
in Westwood.  Approximately 15 minutes South of the Mass Pike or the first
exit North of 95.  About half a mile down the road on the left.  They just
gave us a brand new Sony XR 66 rather than try to repair ours for the fourth
time.  (with a 1 year warranty I might add).

							Tim

    
    The Hi Fidelity House on Park Ave (near Pleasant Street) is an
    authorized repair center.
    
    Steve
    

    
    Yeah, if I can find time to go there (and I live near WPI) and beg
    the guy to work on it even though he didn't sell it to me.
    
    DFW

    The Sony Repair Center in Westwood (off 128) just gave me a new
    CDXR88 in replacement for my fourth CDXR7 which they couldn't fix.
    Price: $90 labor, 1 year warranty included.  I like the CDXR88 much
    better so far - I hope it works for more than 4 months at a time
    (the MTTF of the CDXR7).

    
    Add my name to the list of 70000.  I've had my D-5 for 2 years. 
    It sat on a shelf and was treated very nicely.  A week or two
    ago it started skipping.  Then a few days ago it started not
    wanting to play.  Now it doesn't even spin.  Scratch SONY from
    my list of viable CD makers.  Those of you who have had yours
    for two years with no problems...see you here soon.
    
    Anyone got a pointer to a topic that dicusses GOOD, RELIABLE
    CD player.

        Mine was non-functional (not spinning disks) for over six months.
        After screwing with it several times trying to make it run its
        self-tests, I gave up and put it all back together. I was quite
        surprised to find that it now worked! My only guess is that the 4
        wire ribbon cable that terminates on a tiny solder-bridged hunk of
        PC board had a bad solder joint after one of SONYs warranty
        repairs. You might try unsoldering and resoldering these
        connections. You have to remove this cable to get at any of the
        inards of the player, and once you are there you can't fix
        anything anyways. 
        
        At any rate, the thing now seems to work as flakey as before. It
        seems that every time my wife takes it to school, it is always
        "guess what it did today?", but the symtoms are never repeatable.
        This unit just can't hold up to portable use, regardless of what
        it was sold as. It has been non-functional for more than 50% of
        the time I've owned it. I will never again buy another SONY CD
        player. Sony's minimum repair service on my unit is about what I
        last saw these players being discounted to. 
        
        I can't say my Magnavox (2041) is more reliable, but it is still
        working fine after a year; the SONY had been back 3 times by then.
        At least the parts are servicable, and the thing cost me less than
        40% of what I paid for the D5. The sound doesn't even compare.
        Tapes I make of CDs for use in the car sound better than the same
        CD played on the D5. 
        
>       Anyone got a pointer to a topic that dicusses GOOD, RELIABLE CD
        player. 
        
        Can you say OXYMORON? 

    Well, here's yet another defunct D-5 poppingup out of the woodwork!
    Better late than never(?)!
    
    A little background might help, I bougt mine 2 years ago in Australia
    (it's called the D-50 there)enroute from New Zealand to Germany.
    It worked a treat for 14 months and then the dreaded skipping/can't
    find the track started........groan! I figured readjusting would
    cure it so I ordered a maintenance manual from Berlin. 30DM's poorer
    I determined that all adjustments were in tolerance leaving only
    the laser head assembly to point the finger at (more DM's flew B4
    my eyes!!) I sent off to Sony like a good little customer, 120DM's
    later they tell me they have readjusted the player but that the
    laser does seem to have lost some power and that the replacment
    is not economical - ie; buy another of our
    products....argggggggghhhhhhhh!! 
    
    I retired the machine (it acted up just as before!) and returned
    to my analogue world of LP's on a turntable that beats the pants
    of CD anyway (any bait takers?! - it's a Michell Gyrodek with Helius
    Orion arm and Dynavector 17DS moving coil cartridge). Then I discovered
    THIS notes file..........wonderful.....rearmed with courage and
    vague references to my unnamed employer's huge amount of notefiles
    on this design problem I assailed Sony here in Germany in my best
    but firm diplomatic style.
    
    AND THE ANSWER FOR THOSE OF YOU STILL HERE...... THE LITTLE CONSUMER
    WON OUT. 2 YEARS AFTER THE ORIGINAL PURCHASE, SONY REPLACED THE
    LASER ASSEMBLY AND RELATED CIRCUITRY UNDER GUARANTEE NO LESS AND
    IT WORKS LIKE A BOUGHT ONE!! At least Sony will help you out when
    you present them with enough well presented facts that questions
    their quality integrity. Full (belated) marks to Sony and to you
    guys for writing up in the notesfile.
    
    cheers fjeff
    
    
    
    
    
    fr