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Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

Title:Welcome to the CD Notes Conference
Notice:Welcome to COOKIE
Moderator:COOKIE::ROLLOW
Created:Mon Feb 17 1986
Last Modified:Fri Mar 03 1989
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1517
Total number of notes:13349

437.0. "Some New, Some Old Questions" by PNEUMA::WILSON () Mon Aug 25 1986 14:14

    I have some general questions re: CDs; perhaps these have been answered
    elsewhere; perhaps not. Some of these may seem naive, but remember
    I'm new to this.
    
    1.	What exactly is "dynamic range" and how is it measured? What
    	does it all mean to the human ear and listening pleasure? My
    	CD player's dynamic range is 95 dB. What does dB stand for?
    	Is 95 dB good?
    
    2.	Why are there CD cleaners? Is dust on a CD really noticeable?
    
    3.	Is it true that one CD player is as good as another and that
        the only factors separating their cost are things like remote
    	control and quality of materials in construction?
    
    4.	I just bought a CD of a recording made in 1967. Why is the CD
    	so superior to the tape/record of the same thing? Did they use
    	the master to record the CD? Where does the master reside? Is
    	it a tape, and if so what kind?
    
    Thanks for any response on these questions!!
    
    
T.RTitleUserPersonal
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437.1some short answers...THORBY::MARRAAll I have to be is what You made me.Mon Aug 25 1986 14:5739
    
    Without going into pages of detail:
    
    1.	What exactly is "dynamic range" and how is it measured? What
    	does it all mean to the human ear and listening pleasure? My
    	CD player's dynamic range is 95 dB. What does dB stand for?
    	Is 95 dB good?
    
    the db is decibel.  dynamic range is the difference between the
    loudest and softest sounds.  It is logarithmic (sp) i think. (used
    to know but forgot).  95 is fine - they are all very close.
    
    2.	Why are there CD cleaners? Is dust on a CD really noticeable?
    
    Yes and No.  Dust is noticable when the player has to try real hard to
    track around a dirty record.  The power used to move the servo's around
    the dirt is taken from the power used to drive/amplify the music.
    Some people can hear this distortion. 
    
    3.	Is it true that one CD player is as good as another and that
        the only factors separating their cost are things like remote
    	control and quality of materials in construction?
    
    NO.  read this entire notesfile and you will see. - thats blunt.
    
    4.	I just bought a CD of a recording made in 1967. Why is the CD
    	so superior to the tape/record of the same thing? Did they use
    	the master to record the CD? Where does the master reside? Is
    	it a tape, and if so what kind?
    
    If the record was pressed in 1967, then it is almost 20 years old,
    probably dirtier than a sock and pressed on very old equipment.
    CD's are rather new, and it is possible that the original tapes
    have been re-mastered and edited to make the CD.
    
    ok? for now?
    
    						.dave.

437.2One longer short non-answerSTAR::BECKPaul BeckMon Aug 25 1986 20:4618
    .1 covers things pretty well, but I must add the following:
    
    .3:	Audible differences do exist, but their significance is
	extremely subjective. Some people hear (or claim to hear)
    	significant differences. I find the difference in sound 
    	between my Sony D-5 (a portable unit without oversampling
    	or dual A/Ds etc etc) and my Nakamichi OMS-7E (one of the
    	better units even for golden-eared listeners) essentially
    	irrelevant if what I am doing is listening to music (rather
    	than to equipment). If I'm listening for differences, I can
    	hear them (whether they exist or not).
    
    The subject has been discussed at length in this file. It's one
    of those religious issues like whether you can tell the difference
    between different kinds of interconnect cable and whether too
    many bends in your speaker cable introduce distortion by tiring
    out the electrons who have to make the bends at extremely high
    speed.
437.3AKOV68::BOYAJIANForever On PatrolTue Aug 26 1986 06:186
    Why are there CD cleaners?
    
    Because there are people who will buy them, regardless of the
    necessity for them.
    
    --- jerry
437.4Mastering process, not dirtOMEGA::QUIMBYTue Aug 26 1986 12:3863
    Re: 4. I just bought a CD of a recording made in 1967. Why is the CD
    	so superior to the tape/record of the same thing? Did they use
    	the master to record the CD? Where does the master reside? Is
    	it a tape, and if so what kind?
    
    There are some interesting articles in the Septmbert Digital Audio
    about accessing master tapes.
    
    The CD is superior because it is capable of, for all practical
    purposes, exactly reproducing the master tape.  All previous consumer
    media -- vinyl disks, cassette tapes, and reel-to-reel tapes, have
    been incapable of doing this.  So conscientious and capable recording
    engineers, working with good equipment, have been able to make very
    good master tapes for thirty years, give or take a few.  After all,
    they use tape running at 15 or 30 inches/second, wider tracks for
    lower noise, etc.  For examples, you can look to recordings engineered
    by Rudy van Gelder on Verve in the late 50's, or to DG recordings
    from that period.
    
    .1 feels that dirt on the record and the 1967 state of the pressing
    art would be the explanation.  Dirt is always possible, I assume
    you would know the sound of dirt if you heard it, and that is not
    the significant difference.
    
    As far as pressing goes, plastic technology may have improved slightly
    since 1967 but I don't think that's it either.
    
    I would point to the (vinyl) disk mastering stage as being the
    culprit:
    
    o  High-volume excursions have to be limited in a vinyl record.
       
       -  First, entire passages that were performed at high loudness are
          reduced in level (gain riding).  This reduces the dynamic range
          -- the difference between loudest louds and quietest quiets.
    
       -  Second, transient impulses of high level are reduced in level 
          (peak limiting).  This is more subtle:  for instance, a cymbal 
          crash would sound more muted and have less impact when peak
          limited  (but would not sound significantly quieter).
                                                           
    o  If this is an original 1967 pressing of the record, it was mastered
       so that it could be tracked by the readily available cartridges of 
       the day.  Today's $15 Radio Shack is better than the Shure M3D that 
       many "audiophiles" had in 1967 -- so mastering engineers cutting
       vinyl records today can get away with less peak limiting and
       gain riding.
    
    o  Low-volume passages may have to be made louder to get above the
       intrinsic vinyl noise, again reducing dynamic range.
    
    o  Bass frequencies are typically rolled off and blended into mono
       on a vinyl disk to keep the groove undulations manageable.  Low-
       frequencies require larger groove movements -- blending into
       mono keeps them side-to-side (out-of-phase information would
       result in verticalmotion and potential groove jumping) while
       rolling off the bass helps keep adjacent grooves from
       overlapping. 
    
    All these manipulations can be avoided with a CD, and you get to
    hear essentially the original master tape.
    
    dq
437.5There's a sucker...OOLA::OUELLETTERoland, you've lost your towel!Tue Aug 26 1986 12:4517
>    Why are there CD cleaners?
    
>    Because there are people who will buy them, regardless of the
>    necessity for them.

Uhhhhhh ....... yes.  

At a party someone (possibly me) spilled a drink on one of
my disks.  When I noticed the problem several (sticky) hours
later, I just gave it a bath in warm water.  Plays OK now.
Just be careful not to scratch the surface.  The bottom side
is the one that plays, and scratches in the round-and-round
direction are worse than scratches from the center to the
edge. -- So don't use Ajax and don't wipe it in the circular
direction.

Roland_who_is_glad_it_wasn't_another_record_which_got_spilt_upon
437.6Got ours with our player.SHOGUN::HEFFELOwned by a catTue Sep 09 1986 22:538
    Re: cleaners.
    
    Yup. We used ours. Once. In ~2 years.  Good thing we didn't pay
    anything for it.  Water probably would've done the trick in this
    case but since we had the cleaner, we used it.  G*d, I wish I had
    a dime for every time I had to clean an LP. :-)
    
    Gary