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Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

Title:Welcome to the CD Notes Conference
Notice:Welcome to COOKIE
Moderator:COOKIE::ROLLOW
Created:Mon Feb 17 1986
Last Modified:Fri Mar 03 1989
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1517
Total number of notes:13349

423.0. "I'm wondering...." by GAYNES::WALL (I see the middle kingdom...) Wed Aug 06 1986 16:45

    This is sort of a trivial question, but it occurred to me earlier
    and now I'm sort of obsessed with it.
    
    Do tracks on CDs proceed the same way they do as records?  That
    is, is the information for track one near the edge of the disk,
    or near the center of the disk? 
    
    On an LP, the kinematics of the playback system dictate that the tonearm
    move from the perimeter toward the center.  There is no such
    requirement on CD playback.
    
    The reason I bring this up is I notice that my D-7s lens assembly
    is always as close to the center as possible when I open the player.
    If the first track were on the edge, as they are with records, it
    would make sense to leave it at the other end, assuming your average
    user tendency to play a disk from first track to last track.
    
    I know with hard magnetic disks (such as on PCs) it is good policy
    to send the head as close as possible to the center, if the device
    is going to be moved, because it is less subject to shakes, rattles,
    and rolls in that position.  Is my D-7 doing the same thing?
                                                         
    Dave W.
    Specializing in minor questions of the universe
                          
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423.1Start at CenterEVER11::BERGERWed Aug 06 1986 17:010
423.2PDVAX::P_DAVISreally SARAH::P_DAVISWed Aug 06 1986 17:204
    The stream of data begins at the center, and spirals outward.  In fact,
    the rotational velocity decreases from about 500 rpm at the inside end
    to about 200 rpm at the outside to maintain constant linear data
    density.  I think those numbers are correct, but I'm not entirely sure. 
423.3another question about the formatOOLA::OUELLETTERolandWed Aug 06 1986 18:435
I also heard some tale that the 4 and 1/4 inch size (rather
that 4 inch) was due to the chairman of Sony wanting his
favorite edition of Bethoven's 9th to fit onto one disk.

Has anyone else heard this?
423.4STAR::BECKPaul BeckWed Aug 06 1986 20:223
    The specific number I heard was that the capacity in minutes
    of a compact disk had to be sufficient to accommodate Beethoven's
    Ninth, or about 70 minutes.
423.5AKOV68::BOYAJIANForever On PatrolThu Aug 07 1986 04:308
    re:.4 re:.3
    
    That's what I've heard, the specific figure being 74 minutes.
    
    As I mentioned in the "Hall of Fame" note, one presumes that the
    longest CD is some version of the Ninth.
    
    --- jerry
423.6FURILO::JOHNSONPeter JohnsonThu Aug 07 1986 11:5713
As I understand it the basic reasoning for starting the music at the
inside was twofold:

1) When they started initial develpment of the mechanics they had not
   settled on final dimensioning so starting the music at the inside
   was a good bet since they basically knew there would be an inside -
   they did not know where the outside would end up.

2) Secondly, the inside area of the disk is less prone to being screwed
   up in handling/manufacture etc. so if any space were to be left blank
   better it be on the edges where all our fat fingers go.

-peter
423.7GRAMPS::WCLARKWalt ClarkThu Aug 07 1986 12:1114
    Re: Magnetic Disc drive positioning
    
    The reason magnetic fixed disc drives automatically position to
    the inner tracks (RD52, RD53) and recommendations for positioning
    others to the inner tracks (RD50, RD51, RD31) is that there is a
    nice chunk of media at the inner radius that cannot reliably contain
    customer data due to head/media physics. This is an ideal place
    to 'land' the heads as a result. 
    
    Shock and vibration characteristics do not change, its just that
    it is less likely to affect customer data if head slap or other
    problems occur while the drive is shut down.
    
    Walt 
423.8CD "singles"RHODES::WARDROPThu Aug 21 1986 00:057
    An interesting advantage to the data beginning at the center is
    that it opens the possibility of manufacturing smaller discs that
    are compatible with today's players.  Since the discs all start
    in the same place, a smaller disc should play ok.  Will we soon
    see CD singles?
    
    -Rick
423.9AKOV68::BOYAJIANForever On PatrolThu Aug 21 1986 04:407
    Well, I know of at least *one* CD single (though one might call
    it an EP) --- Suzanne Vega's LEFT OF CENTER. It has three songs
    (two of them from her first album, and the title number from the
    PRETTY IN PINK soundtrack) and the total time is just a hair
    under ten minutes.
    
    --- jerry
423.10I hope the CD "single" was CHEAPCADSYS::RICHARDSONThu Aug 21 1986 13:323
    re .9
    I hope you weren't charged $14 for your ten-minute CD "single",
    Jerry?  And where did you find it?
423.11LV "singles" - actually 3 - 8 songsPAMPAM::CLARKWard ClarkMon Aug 25 1986 18:406
    Several years after 12" LV had been on the market, Pioneer began
    releasing 8" cheapies (about � price).  Although their advertising
    seemed to indicate that the smaller discs would only play on the
    newer LV players, the generation 1 players handled them fine.
    
    -- Ward
423.12Singles no, albums yesEXIT26::STRATTONI brake for tailgatersFri Aug 29 1986 09:506
        I hope "they" don't start making "45"-ish CDs until they
        have enough factories, etc., to (more than) keep up with
        the demand for album-length CDs.
        
Jim Stratton
        
423.13VIDEO::HOFFMANMon Feb 09 1987 21:0016
Apart from considerations mentioned so far, the question of where to
start track one is a purely technical one.

LPs, being CAV, provide the best performance at the outer edge.
Since most LPs are shorter than their maximum possible time (sigh),
it made good sense to start at the outer edge. 

CDs, on the other hand, are CLV, so the above consideration no
longer applies. It can be shown, however, that read error density is
much higher at the outside diameter. Since most CDs are shorter then
their maximum possible time (sigh...), it made sense to start at the
center. 

-- Ron 

423.14CAV? CLV???PARSEC::PESENTIJPTue Feb 10 1987 12:230
423.15COVERT::COVERTJohn R. CovertTue Feb 10 1987 13:172
CAV = Constant Angular Velocity
CLV = Constant Linear Velocity
423.16CAV? CLV? CAV! CLV!RSTS32::VMILLERWhat you don't mean can't hurt youTue Feb 10 1987 16:4115
    re: .-1 and .-2
    
    These are LaserDisc terms (at least, that's how we see them most
    often).  In a CAV disc, the disc rotates at a constant speed throughout
    the playing (Constant Angular Velocity); thus, the data near the
    center is "more compressed" than that at the edges.  In a CLV disc,
    the speed of the disc changes as the laser moves outward from the
    center (but since the disc also gets bigger, the laser covers the
    same distance; Constant Linear Velocity).
    
    CDs are CLV, and LaserDiscs come in both types.
    
    					Vernon
    
    
423.17RSTS32::VMILLERWhat you don't mean can't hurt youTue Feb 10 1987 16:425
    Re: .-1
    
    Change the phrase "speed of the disc changes" to read "speed of
    the disc decreases".  I failed to indicate HOW it changes!!