Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

    	While my stereo system is by no means "state of the art" any
    longer, I believe I have a better then average system consisting
    of a Marantz receiver (120 watts/channel into 4 ohm speakers), a
    pair of Jantzen Z-30 electro-static speakers, Technics turntable,
    a Fischer cassette deck, and a new Technics SL-P100 cd player.
    	My analog record collection is approximately 500+ albums and
    I have everything from rock, folk, and jazz to classical.  I realize
    that I could never (nor would I try) to duplicate what I have on
    analog disc. There is much in my collection that was not "active
    public" that probably would never be produced again for record let
    alone on cd.  Then again much of what I have I keep for nostalgic
    sake and don't actively listen to anyway.
    	My first listening to cd was at a stereo store here in Colorado
    Springs, and the sales person after finding out I had never listened
    to a cd, closed the doors to the listening room, showed me how to
    run the cd, showed me where the collection was and away I went.
    The first cd I played was Fleetwood Macs "RUMORS" followed by a
    The Doobie Brothers album (title I can't remember). I WAS BLOWN
    AWAY!  I knew then I would someday own a cd.  The crispness and
    clarity, dynamic range and pure quiet during soft passages were
    absolutely astounding.
    	My wife, who balked when I told her I was going to get a cd,
    was amazed at the [I'm quoting her] "true, crisp, pronounced..."
    sound coming out of her favorite speakers like she had never heard
    them sound before, although she thinks the price of cds is still
    very expensive (don't we all).
    	Will I continue to by analog? Yes, and at this time it's hard
    for me to say whether I'll buy cd or analog when it comes time to
    choose a new record...probably depend on my finances at the time.
    	Thanks for letting me expound on the subject...
    
    _stew-

    This has all been hashed out before.  CDs have some potential signal
    problems in the areas of quantization, phasing, and aliasing.  It's
    even possible that some people can hear these deficiencies,
    particularly on poorly designed equipment.  There are constant
    improvements being made in player technology to better capture the
    potential of the medium.  For instance, the new Magnavox player
    uses new dual 16-bit DACs and digital filtering.
    
    On the other hand, CDs have vastly superior dynamic range to almost
    any other medium, and they simply don't wear out.  Most audiophiles
    I know have replaced favorite LPs several times.  That makes CDs
    almost cheap in comparison.  Since the cost of building a CD library
    is so high, I think most of us hope that the medium will be stable
    as the players continue to improve.
    
    
    Finally,  I believe most of the "sharpness" you complain about is
    due to the fact that many CDs are made from LP masters, which have
    undergone RIAA equalization to compensate for the treble-limiting
    properties of phonography.  Re-mastered or newly mastered CDs should 
    not have this problem, and a good equalizer should improve the sound 
    of others.
    
    

    If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it!
    
    I love my CD player.  What you may consider a shrill high end someone
    else may consider "crisp".  There isn't any question that I have gotten
    more sonic excellence/$ out of my CD player than I do out of my
    turntable.  The dynamic range and SN of GOOD Cd's never fails to
    knock me over.
    
    Besides the obvious point about CD's not wearing out, there is the
    additional factor (a derivative of the wearing out issue) that CD's
    don't need as much tender loving car as do records.  You see that row
    of bottles, brushes, zero-stat frizbats, mirrors, etc. by your
    turntable?  Well I don't need them with my CD.  I am happy to not have
    to deal with that mess anymore. 
    
    Aside from the medium difference, it isn't one vs. the other.  It's
    good ol' competition, and may the best alternative win.  In the CD vs.
    turntable war, it is clear to everyone which one is winning in the
    <$750 price range, and soon maybe even the <$1k+ range.  Do you really
    think that we enjoy CDs due to marketing brainwash hype? 

    As to the notion of hoping that something better will come along, one
    can easily envision a "CDII" format 10 years hence, with 2x the number
    of samples, or more bits, or both, perhaps upward compatible with the
    current format CD's.  There is precedence for this: Beta and Superbeta.
    Yes this is just conjecture, but that's the beauty of digital: format
    changes and version numbers! 

    jdr

    Aside from the other reasons mentioned, is convenience.  It is very
    nice to have a full album played with no muss, no fuss.  Certainly
    one can go on and on about 14-bit vs 16-bit vs oversampling vs all
    kinds of neat stuff.  But to drop one of those little things in
    the player, push the go button, and relax.  Certainly, one can "A-B"
    an album with the CD, and I have.  However, where's the crackle
    as the stylus settles into the leading groove?  Where's the distortion
    as the album is over-driven?
    
    CD's really are very nice.  I certainly don't regret spending the
    money!
    
    And of course, there's solo piano.  Which is really quite magnificent.
    
    b.

    For $250 I can get a CD player that sounds much better than a
    turntable/cartridge for the same money.  Mostly though, I can get
    software with much less irritating noise -- especially clicks, pops,
    rumble and wow (I can't stand off center LPs!).  These bug me enough
    that I ceased buying LPs several years ago, when prerecorded cassettes
    got to be halfway decent (except for Angels -- YUCK!).  The cassettes
    generally aren't as good sounding as the LPs, but don't (usually)
    have any clicks, pops or skips, and are somewhat less fragile.
    (They do have other problems -- wow & flutter due to tape stretch,
    print-through, and irregular frequency response).  
    
    CDs have none of these faults.  They may have others, but it's still
    a big improvement for me.
    
    		George

    One can argue numbers all day long. I don't care. Whether CD's are
    a drastic improvement in sound is a matter of opinion. If everyone
    agreed on what sounded good, there'd be only one brand of stereo
    equipment.
    
    To my ears, CD's sound very good. I have 100 CD's, and the only
    ones that have disappointed me are the 3 early Rolling Stones
    albums, which sound somewhat muffled. The big point for me is what
    the previous replies have pointed out --- the convenience. No having
    to turn the thing over, no pops/etc., no extra-special TLC needed,
    and no wear. In addition, once I get a D-7 and an amp to hook up
    in my car, I'll have one medium that I can play at home, in the
    car, or carry around with me. I can do that now with cassettes,
    but though pre-recorded cassettes have *vastly* improved in the
    last few years, they can't hold a candle to CD's. And last, but
    not least, they take up a *hell* of a lot less room than LP's, and
    are much lighter. I'll be thankful for that when it comes time to
    move.
    
    I haven't given up on LP's by any means, since many of the ones
    I have in my collection probably will never be issued in CD, and
    many new things I like have little prospect of being issued on
    CD (though who knows?). But when a new album comes out in the
    pop/rock genre, I usually wait for the inevitable CD.
    
    --- jerry

    This whole subject seems prefixed by (FLAME ON) so I wont bother.
    
    
    If I were starting from scratch, records, electronics, and all,
    I would consider a CD player and the medium as my main source.
    Sure there are some problems with the sound, now. You should have
    heard what stereo LPs sounded like thru the better systems 15 years 
    ago compaired with today. There is a big learning curve left for
    hardware and software folks alike. As time goes on, people will
    make technical improvements in both ends of the electronics.
    The record producers will settle down and concentrate on music
    (leaving the theatrics behind - remember early stereo LPs ?) 
    
    The fact, is this medium is in it infancy and is legitimately
    challenging a form that has been evolving for 100 years. Sure
    there is a lot of hype and tinears screaming state-of-the-art.
    There is an entire industry dedicated to getting you and me
    to spend everything we can earn, steal or borrow. You have
    to look past that, to the current state of CD and the potential
    for growth.
    
    I am into LP hardware and software too far to drop it and I still
    think it sounds more musical than what is today available digitally. 
    Not quieter or more spectacular just more balanced. 
    
    I have my plans and expaectations though. My new preamp, taking 
    shape in the basement, with the hot phono front end, has a place 
    set aside for CD input.
    
    I see Compact Disk as a way to keep the hobby part of my interest
    in music growing. Now that Ive but 2 things left (finishing the
    preamp and a new subwoofer) till the current sources (LP, FM, tape) 
    have been made as good as they can get - or I care to make them
    - I can plan to get and rip into CD. I honestly believe I can apply
    the same techniques to CD playback that got me a solid state preamp
    that sounded better than the SP-6C and equalled or bettered products
    by Levinson and Threshold that came out later. I also expect the
    current high end record producers, like Sheffield, to improve the
    recording equipment and techniques as they apply to CD to satisfy
    the demands of finicky listeners.  

    So even though I am now 100% LP, I support CD as a viable path to
    the future and continued improvement of audio.
    
    Walt