Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

    They may help some of the older players. On any of the better players,
    forget the -CD, and get the regular Interlink. Isn't the -II the old
    stuff, now replaced by the -IV? I've got their latest catalog, and
    don't see the -II referenced anywhere. 
    
    The reviews I've seen don't think much of the -Special either. It isn't
    enough of an improvement over the -IV to justify the price increase.
    That leaves a choice between the -IV at $25/meter or the -Reference at
    $80/meter. Let your ears decide. I doubt that many systems are good
    enough to justify the -Reference, although I did go for one of these
    between my preamp and amp.
    
    There are a lot of other products besides Monster to choose from. There
    are some that are better, but more expensive. There is a lot of trash
    too! For the $25, it is a fair deal, and will work in most any system.
    A little Cramolin or Tweek, and you are all set. Go back to AUDIO.NOTE
    for the full rundown on cables and Cramolin/Tweek. 

    The ad copy is so full of crap so as to make Linn look rational.
    
    What they are selling is a pretty decent interconnect whose high
    frequencies are rolled off.  This is a great blessing on many early
    CD players, but you can get some of that from the Interlink IV since
    all Monster wires tend towards a smoother and more listenable sound.
    
    I'd agree with Bob that I wouldn't bother spending more than $25
    on a cable, unless I was using one of the very best players.
    
    A good dealer will let you try out cables at home.  Right now I'm
    trying out speaker wires.  I didn't like Straightwire Music Ribbon
    24 and am now comparing Monster Powerline II with Straightwire Teflon
    12.  Wednesday I'm going to compare with FMS Green and FMS Grey.
    Don't let anybody tell you that wire doesn't make a difference!
    All those wires are far more detailed than my current plain Monster
    Cable.
    
    Most of the top wires will have a more coherrent soundstage, but
    differ in frequency balance.  If your system is too bright, a softer
    cable will help, and if your system is too dull, a quicker/brighter
    cable will liven it up.  This is why you really have to insert the
    cable in your system before knowing whether or not to buy it.  If
    you can't hear any difference, surely return it.
    
    Mark
    

    re-1     OH NO! The voice of sanity...
    
    
    pj
    

        re: .1
        
        Aha, Bob! I think this may be why we differ on the sound of
        the Sony D5.  I use Interlink-CD on mine. I've tried it with
        Interlink Reference, but unless the CD is really first rate,
        the roll of the high end on the -CD cable sounds much smoother.
        
        No doubt, for the best CD's, Reference is the calbe of choice.
        But there are a lot of overly bright, screechy CDs out there,
        and the Interlink CD does tame them nicely.  
        
        Dave

    re .3
    
    You think wire doesn't make a difference? Come over to my house with 2
    20' pairs of zip cord. I'm only using the cheaper Monster Powerline,
    but there IS a difference on my system. After spending around $3000 in
    6 months on upgrading the system, I'm not going to mask those
    improvements to save $50 on wire. 
    
    Before we go flaming about this topic here, PLEASE go back to the
    AUDIO.NOTE, and read the notes on wire. It DOES make a difference, IF
    the wire is your weak link. I wouldn't spend the $50 on a $200 system,
    thou. You would never hear the difference.
    
    re .5 
    
    Dave, the D5 is one of the players that benefit from the -CD, but I
    doubt that many low end CD player owners have the kind of system that
    you do to run it into. They won't see the difference on their rack
    systems that you do with your ARC. Even I wouldn't notice some things
    on my system that you would on yours. Maybe someday I will.

    that quotation was Nilsson's (sp?) "The Point", rock man to Oblio.

    OK Reg....buy your stuff at K-Mart and Radio Shack. Just dont make
    me buy the same stuff too....OK?
    
    Walt

    Buy their clothes and computers too.

    ... and don't make ME listen to it.
    
    I didn't mean "read AUDIO.NOTE because its always right", but "read
    AUDIO.NOTE because there is no reason to copy all of those notes to
    this file". I'm basicly lazy. I'm also a definite believer that one
    should get what one pays for. For your blue light special, use the
    cables that it comes with, and your 24 guage "speaker wire". I'll still
    put good cable into my system. I can hear the difference. 

    Re: .10  My, my, aren't we eloquent.
    
    Re: .11  Really.  24 gauge?  Give us a break.  There are plenty
    of us who consider ourselves audiophiles but who do not feel the
    need to connect bizzare speaker wires when 16 gauge zip cord has
    served, and continues to serve the purpose.
    
    Gary

    I brought the set of Straightwire Teflon-12 speaker wires over to
    Audio Vision last night and compared them with FMS green speaker
    wire using VPI/Souther/Adcom front end, C-J Premier 3/Premier 4
    and ProAc Studio I's.
    
    Stereophile may think this is super stuff, but compared to the FMS
    it was obviously inferior.  Less detailed and kind of "sanitized"
    where harmonics were just gone - no richness.
    
    I noticed some of the same thing on my system comparing it with
    Monster Cable Powerline II, but on that system it was blatently
    obvious how washed out the Straightwire it.
    
    I now have a new stereo store.  They carry very nice stuff and their
    salesmen are even human!  I got to bring in my amp and speakers
    and compare them on their best reference system to hear how they
    do.  Those $1000 Pro-Ac's demolished all kinds of other speakers.
    While the best JSE had a more coherrent soundstage, nothing matched
    the detail and dynamics of the little ProAcs except perhaps the
    Proac ESB (had better bass, worse midrange, $3500).
    
    

    Re: .13
    
    I had a similar experience which I related somewhere in AUDIO.note,
    but in particular it was with interconnect (IE Preamp to Amp) cables.
    
    I made up the cables my self, the only technical difference was
    that one set used silver plated wire, the other had no plating.
    I cannot say there was any "blown away" demos here but the silver
    wires tended to have more transient detail and less harmonic richness
    than the unplated.  The choice of best would probably depend upon
    the rest of the system and the listening room.  In my last house,
    the silver did it for me. In the current one (same equipment - just
    a couple years older) the unplated seems more balanced.
    
    I had done some speaker wire design experimenting about 3 years
    ago. I was using Levinson HF-15 wire as the reference then and managed
    to produce several configurations that did "blow away" the reference.
    I settled on a cable made up of some 50 lengths per wire of 24 Ga
    oxygen free copper computer backplane wire with silver plating and
    teflon insulation (we had lots of this stuff in LCG field service
    back when we didnt mind re-wiring the KI backplane in the field). When
    terminated each conductor was about 1/4" in diameter. It is possible
    that the same exact configuration with unplated wire might be preferred
    in the new house as well. Maybe not. Anyway I have reason to believe
    that the proper wire configuration for each installation would sound
    dramatically better than zip cord - even really BIG ZIP CORD (like
    the Levinson or Fulton).
    
    Walt

RE: .13

Other readers of this file should keep in mind that Mr Kaepplein claims he
can hear differences made by capacitors, too.  Complete discussion in
the AUDIO conference.

--PSW

    re .15
    
    Hear it! Hell! You can SEE it! (lemme just change a couple o' them
    capacitors in that there monitor you're starin' at now...) 
    
    And when he invited another noter over to compare modified and
    unmodified components, that person heard it too. Maybe if you are nice,
    he would let YOU listen to the difference too!
    
    re .13
    
    Hey Mark, now you got your own store :-) Any discounts to DEC employees
    :-) ^2 Where is it, I'll visit it next week during class (for real).

    Alright..... Lets have a list of the best cables based on the previous
    research in the previous notes.

    There was no best list of cables, just a discussion of the merit
    (or lack of) of cables affecting the sound.
    
    For moderate (non high end) systems, the Monster Inerlink IV and
    Straight Wire Flexconnect are decent interconnects at about $25 a pair.
    Avoid the cheapies that come with most equipment, and Diskwasher
    Gold-ens. 
    
    Reasonable priced speaker cable include Monster Powerline 2 and 3
    ($2.70 and $1.30 per foot), and Kimber 4PR ($1.00) and 4VS ($1.80). I
    would stay away from lamp cord, and anything that uses clear insulation.

    None of these are the 'best' cables, but reasonably priced, and
    compatable with most systems. Those with real high end systems should
    read the interconnect / cable reviews in the past year of TAS and
    Stereophile. They should also look for a dealer willing to loan several
    different cables for an extended audition at home. 

       Do you know the gauge of those speaker wires, just offhand?
       Even Stereo Review recommends keeping the resistance of your
       speaker wires to under 0.2 ohms, which for 16 gauge would
       mean about 25 feet (50 feet round trip). For a 50 foot run,
       for example, that would mean using 12 gauge.
       
       As one who has expressed some level of skepticism toward some
       of the more "tweak" recommendations (such as the direction
       of extrusion of interconnect wires), I'd be a lot less surprised
       by an audible difference from changing capacitors (especially
       those in the signal path) than from cables or connectors.
       You change a component like that, you run the risk of changing
       the frequency response of the unit you're modifying (although
       I assume you're using precisely the same capacitance values).
       

    Bob -- In .18 you said that you "would stay away from ... anything
    that uses clear insulation."
    
    Does that include standard Monster Cable?
    
    -- Ward

       Suppose your cables are in the walls?

	re .21
       
       Eddie Currents? Wasn't he the one who sang "I left my heart
       in Billerica"?

    In a few years I expect to see all digital tuner/CD/preamp/..
    components with fiber optic interconnects.  Think of all the new brand
    names, Fantastic Fiber, Ultra-Glass II, ...
    
    __Rich

    RE: size of "exotic" cables.
    
    Surprizingly, some of them are quite small, with all the conductors
    added up they come to 12-16 guage.  Others like the Powerline are
    larger, and the now passe' Fulton was like welding cable.
    
    There is more at work than DC resistance.

    If there really is something to this super-duper interconnect/speaker
    wire stuff, why don't manufacturers supply it with their components?
    (i.e., the connection wires that come with your cassette, CD, tuner...)

    It's not that long since manufacturers of quality Hi-Fi components
    didn't supply any cabling (you bought or made your own).    
    
    As prices came down, and average disposable income went up, people
    bega. to buy Hi-Fi who had not been in the market before. They demanded
    ease of set up, and designs that looked attractive (as opposed to
    merely sounding great). This led to "ranges" of "matching" equipment,
    and of course to simple things like including a few ca"les in the
    box to make it easier to hook up the stuff. 
                                               
    
    However the name of the game hasn't changed: the maker is selling
    an amp, or a CD or whatever, not cables. The cables consequently
    are usually the cheapest he can find (and are probably best thrown
    away with the box the unit came in).
    
    /. Ian .\

    [Sorry for the delay - I've been away fo 2 weeks...]
    
    Re .20?
    
    I've heard that the clear insulation both deteriorates from seposure
    to sunlight, and causes the copper under it to deteriorate as well.
    For an in-the-wall installation, I guess it wouldn't matter.
    
    re others
    
    The cheap equipment manufacturers tend to throw in a set of $2.00
    cables as a 'convenience' to their customers. High end equipment
    usually comes with some information on choosing cables, or at least
    recommends that the buyer audition several. They also market their
    equipment thru dealers that can help the buyer make such a decision. No
    manufacturer can say that one specific cable is best with their
    equipment 100% of the time, as 'best' varies with what is at the other
    end of the cable, the rest of the system, and also with the taste of
    the listener.

    As Bob says in .28,  the better equipment doesnt want to presuppose
    the buyers preferences (or lack thereof) for cables in much the
    same way that high end turntable manufacturers do not try to force
    the purchaser into an arm or cartridge by providing them.  Since
    cheap cables work and no cable doesnt, I think many manufacturers 
    will throw something into the box just to keep folks who hadnt thought 
    thru the cables ahead of time from coming back pissed because the unit
    could not be hooked up.
    
    Walt

    re .18, .22 clear insulation: To me, the reason is obvious: the
    electrons traveling on the surface of the wire are able to see the
    ugly world and they try to return to the amplifier, thus causing
    severe distortion.
    
    I recommend black plastic hose filled with mercury.
    

    
    the black plastic filled with mercury is a great idea!  to turn
    the volume down all you have to do is squeeze the wire - to turn
    it off, just bend it, like a garden hose.
    
    Where do I get mine???
    
    						.dave.

    A good compromise between solid-state (transistor) and gas (tubes)
    devices to get that liquid sound!

    
    Of couse, when it's cold the mercury will shrink, therefore not
    making the correct connection, and when hot will explode outof the
    tubing.  Specially designed temperature systems must be designed
    such as a constant temperature cabinet with battery backup so that
    when the power goes, it won't overheat and explode.

    Tubes warming up the room would then explain expanded soundstage
    effects.