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Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

Title:Welcome to the CD Notes Conference
Notice:Welcome to COOKIE
Moderator:COOKIE::ROLLOW
Created:Mon Feb 17 1986
Last Modified:Fri Mar 03 1989
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1517
Total number of notes:13349

145.0. "Please Ma'am, just the facts." by ASGNQH::SMITH () Wed Jul 03 1985 04:12

	Back in Note #94 I asked about tape hiss being removed when
	analog music is digitally remastered. The general consensus
	was that this could not be done. (I hope quoting from Consumer
	Reports doesn't cause any trouble, as it's certainly not the
	most technical publication around, but here goes). In the June
	issue of CR on page 327 in the second paragraph of the first
	answer, it says:

	Other CD's carry the label "digitally remastered." Digital
	remastering cleans up a good deal of the master tape's back-
	ground noise by electronically processing the signal and
	recording it onto a digital tape. Some musical elements may
	be compromised in the process. Remastering is one way to
	transfer old recordings to the new medium without a lot of
	noise left in.

	CR supports what I had originally thought, but the responses
	to Note #94 indicate otherwise. Can anyone out there shed any
	additional coherent radiation on this?
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145.1GYCSC1::ORAWed Jul 03 1985 05:3912
They probably do something similar what Philips offered a few years ago under
the dame 'DNR' (dynamic noise reduction') for cassette recorders.

DNR simply had a variable frequency low-pass filter. When the sound level
was high, there was no high cut; with low levels there was an increasing
amount of hight cut. This would mean that the quiet passages would have less
audible hiss at the cost of poorer quality.

You can obvioulsy do such things much more elegantly and accurately on a
digitized signal; however, it's always guessing waht's noise and what is
signal.

145.2MOTHER::RHINEWed Jul 03 1985 09:267
Most of my analog recorded CDs have very little tape hiss or other noise.
The worst I have heard is the soundtrack of The Sound Of Music (RCA).  The
CD has just as much tape hiss as the cassette which is not "dolbyized". 
RCA has some classic classical recordings on CD of some very old performances.
Some of them are mono.  I have been hesitant to buy them because of my
experience with the Sound of Music.  Has anyone had experience with these
disks?
145.3MANANA::DICKSONWed Jul 03 1985 13:2714
My CD of Bolling's Jazz Suite for piano and flute has a rather large
amount of hiss, and maybe a little hum.  Quite noticable in the second
before the music starts.  Don't remember the label.

I have a "Carpenters' Greatest Hits" CD that has hiss on some cuts, but
those go back to the middle 60's, and A&M was never my idea of audiophile
recording technology.

As noted elsewhere, the Solti recordings of Wagner's Ring have very little
hiss, even though they were recorded in 66/67, due to 30ips tape recording.

It probably comes down to how scrupulous the original recording engineer
was.

145.4JAKE::ROBERTSONWed Jul 03 1985 13:4625
In response to 0, I believe that the condition of the analog master 
has a lot to do with whether or not the recording is processed to 
remove background noise.  If for instance, a high quality master 
was recorded at 30 ips, in recent times the background noise should
be quite low.  In comparison, a master recorded in the 1950's did not
have the same technically advanced recording machines and media found
in todays studios and the background noise was much higher.  With this 
in mind, I would think that it is up to the individual label and 
producer as to whether an analog recording will be process to remove
background noise prior to creating the digital master.

In response to .2, RCA has gone through great pains in cleaning up 
old recordings, especially those of Elvis Presley.  If the choose to
clean up the old recordings you speak of you'll be amazed at what can 
be done to an old analog recording to clean it up.  If you like any
of Elvis' earlier music its worth picking up the ones that RCA has 
put on CD.  On the album of "I was the One" RCA went so far as to
get together all original musicians and re-recorded the music while
keeping the original vocals in tact.  Even more amazing is that the 
musicians even made the same mistakes in their performances to 
minimize any difference between the original performance and the 
new one.


Dale
145.5TIGER::PRYORWed Jul 03 1985 14:454
There can be a major difference in final quality depending on what master
tape is used.  If the stereo master is used, results can range from good
to terrible.  If the original multitrack master is remixed (with each
track subject to seperate noise reduction) the results can be awesome.
145.6THORBY::MARRATue Jul 09 1985 08:5620
  What is it that a computer is used for mostly?  Editing - right ??

  Thats what they do - they create the digital master from the analog master
  then sit and edit the thing for about a year or two. - I have an audiophile
  recording of Fleetwood Mac Rumors album that was digitally remastered and
  edited from the original analog tape.  This album is incredible - much much
  quieter than the original regular type. - I can only hope that the CD version
  is as good.  Of course it does take time to edit these things.  

  Really - just think of what Hiss looks like in HEX CD form --

  39CD 39CF 39CE 39CD 39C3 3902 39C3 39CE  etc....
                      -----TICK-----

  A good mathmatical formula and program could straighten this out and take
  the hiss out too!! Run it thru a couple of times then listen to it - should
  sound better up to the point when it really starts compressing the sound...

				�dave�

145.7PYRITE::WEAVERTue Jul 09 1985 12:307
Re: .6

I have the "Rumors" CD and find it to be extremely well done.  I picked it
up at Rock'n Mania in Framingham.  I don't think you could go wrong picking
up this CD.

							-Dave
145.8THORBY::MARRAWed Jul 10 1985 13:381
great - now all i need is a player
145.9AKOV68::BOYAJIANThu Jul 11 1985 04:3015
Not to digress into a discussion of Fleetwood Mac CD's, but...

RUMOURS on CD is very good, but is not as superior to the audiophile
record as the audiophile record is to the regular record (I have all
three). I prefer FLEETWOOD MAC to RUMOURS on both audiophile record
and CD. In "Over My Head", I never really heard the guitar harmonics
until I listened to the half-speed master. Once I heard that they were
there and could listen for them, I noticed them on the regular record,
though they certainly weren't as prominent. On the CD, they stand out
as clear as a bell!

MIRAGE is also available on CD, and the harmonics in "Gypsy" are really
nice and clear, too. Now all I'm waiting for is TUSK to come out on CD.

--- jerry