Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

O.K., I'll bite..

What's the difference between the first and second generations of CD players
(and what will determine the third generation - or do we know yet)??

- dave

Second generation seems to mean "This year" and double the sampling
rate and better error correction.

Has anyone seen a Yamaha CD-2 yet? Tweeter is pushing them, but they
don't have any.

-lynx

There's a place called Q Audio just off Mass Ave. near M.I.T. (just a few blocks
away from the Student Center, heading towards Central Sq., on the S.C. side of
Mass Ave.). I just happened in there a couple of weeks ago, and they had the
610ES. I picked up some lit on it. Looks like a good machine. I'm still waiting
for the combo CD/LV player, though.

--- jerry

I borrowed a CD-2 from a not to be named audio store (it was there demo).
It is by far the most convienient to use CD player I have seen to date.
It has about every feature you could think of and a few more. I was so
impressed that I ordered one. Unfortunatly I was told it may be November
before they become available. Sound wise the player is excellant. It was
compared to the much aclaimed Yamaha CD-1 and in my opinion sounded the
same.

I listened to the CD-x1 tonight and it was very good. I am looking
forward to seeing (and trying) a CD-2.

I expect to try a 610ES Sony on Saturday at the Music Box in Welesly.
-lynx-

The Yamaha CD-X1 is an excellent machine, but heaven help you if it
breaks!

I purchased mine from Tweeter, etc. in Framingham in late May.  When the
unit starting acting up around mid-July, I brought it in for service.

Since the units are in short supply, there were none available for trade.

I'm STILL waiting for it to come back from the repair shop!


I've since purchased the $299 Technics SL-P7 unit.  It sounds fine to me
and works  (I must admit it is less tolerant of vibration than the Yamaha,
but it employs the same oversampling mumbo-jumbo, etc.).  My only problem
with it is asthetics (the rest of my stereo is flat black - the SL-P7 is
silver).

I haven't decided if I'm going to keep the Yamaha when it comes back (next
year), but I fully intend to make a few Tweeter employees know how I feel.
I'll most likely demand my money back and purchase one of these new-fangled
toys later on - from another store. 

I just want to remind people that as far as I'm concerned, CD players have
the same reputation as foreign cars had about 10 years ago.  Great toys,
but when it breaks....


- dave

Mea culpa..

The Technics/Yamaha does not oversample.  They have a tri-laser-beam
system to improve tracking.

- dave

RE: .3

For a while I was "waiting for the combo LV/CD player".  Recently, after my
1st-generation Pioneer VP-1000 LV player was repaired, I've backed off from
that plan for two reasons:

    - My ace LV repairman told me that the newer solid-state LV players
      don't produce quite as good a picture as the older gas-laser players.

    - From the discussion I've been reading lately here and in net.audio,
      it seems that all CD players are not the same.

Given these two considerations, it seems unlikely that the combo LV/CD
player will be top-notch in both arenas.  Reminds me of the
bad-old-good-old-days when no self-respecting audiophile would seriously
consider owning a receiver or integrated amp.  Alas, that may still be true!

Ward

	Second generation players have differences in the following areas:

		. Laser head assembly
		. Digital circutiry
		. Analog circuitry
		. Filters

	In general some companies have revised the head assembly.  Sony
	in paticular.  Their new head assembly is 1/3 the size of the
	original, lighter in weight, and more resistent to external shocks.
	This was done in preperation for the automotive and walkperson
	market.

	The digital circuitry in the second generation players is now in the
	form of custom VLSI chips.  More density, features, compatibility,
	less cost.

	The analog circuitry is the main reason CD players sound different
	from each other.  The better manufacture's use 1% metal film
	resistors, polypropylene capacitors, high speed op-amps, and
	OFHC (oxygen free, high conductivity) copper wiring with gold
	plated connectors.  These things DO make a difference and they
	can be heard when you have a noise free source such as a CD disc.
	How can you tell if a player has these types of components?  You
	can't unless you take it apart or have the shop disassemble it
	for you.  Sony, for one, uses these components.  I don't know about
	the others.

	Filters have significantly improved in the second generation machines.
	They are either digital, 9th or 11th order, or a combination of both.
	The same statement as to part quality as stated above applies here.
	With 5% tolerance parts, even two players of the same type will
	sound different!

	Another difference in the sound is the design goal of player.  A Sony
	is sharp and detailed, while a Magnavox sounds softer, more like a
	tube pre-amp.  You have to decide what you like.

	A problem to watch out for is the output level.  Some players put out
	2V -to- 2.5V or more.  This may overdrive your Per-amp or receiver
	and cause distortion, check the spec's on both units.

	Note that the Sony 610ES has a 26-pin accessory connector.  This is
	simply a straight digital output.  It is for use with computers.
	If this future function is important to you check before you buy.

	Also, the Sony 701ES is the audiophile verson of the 610ES.  The
	main difference is that the 701ES has dual mono paths from the
	D-to-A's to the analog outputs.  This give better seperation.  It
	also costs more - $1,500.

	Bob

Yes, I've seen a CD-2.  In fact, I am the proud owner of one.  See my Note #33
for details.

					Vernon Miller
					TPLVAX::MILLER

Re: Original note

The 610 is very hard to find ... the CDP400 is easier and is the same machine
except in silver.  I would like to have gotten the 610 if you could find it.

The 400 can be gotten from Electrified Discounters in New Haven Ct. for about
$560.  Not a bad price - its a good machine with a full function IR remote
INCLUDING VOLUME CONTROL on the remote.

Does the CDP-400 have the data port that is on the 610 but not
listed in the feature list? Perhaps this is why it is a bit less money?

-lynx-

Yes,

The CDP-400 has the data port on the back.  To clarify the 400 is the 610.
The only difference is in the color.  If I could have found the 610 at the
time I was looking I would have opted for black, but as it was the 400
was the only one I could find.  It can be gotten for a very reasonable price
(e.g. ~$560 at Electrified Discounters in New Haven).  It has all the features
I think you need (I think programming the order of play is a crock) and the
remote allows control of the volume.  This feature should not be underrated -
I think it is the best feature on the remote and now could not live without it.

I have had the machine for about two months now and it worked flawslessly when
I took it out of the box and continues to perform perfectly.  The Sony engineers
have put a lot of thought into how the controls work as well - they even feel
good.  I would heartily recommend it to anyone.

p.j.

Does the data port come with documentation?  What can you do with it?

Jim Pappas

Does anyone know where the CDP-400 can be had closer than New Haven Ct?

-lynx-

 re .14 -	From what I have heard, Sony has not released the
		information on the pin outs and protocal.

		Bob