Conference marvin::uk_music

    Because the record biz thinks vinyl was too cheap all through the 70s
    and 80s and they don't want to make that "mistake" again. Not
    forgetting that they're conning you into replacing all your old vinyl
    faves on CD, recordings on which they long ago made their profit. Not
    forgetting that when some companies do try and sell cheap CDs, record
    shops sell them at the same price and pocket the extra money.
    
    Face it, the music biz has no intention of allowing CD prices to fall.
    
    
    Rod

    The Independent on Sunday has been running a campaign regarding
    expensive CD prices. They publish outlets nationwide where CD prices
    are considered a 'reasonable' price. Based on reader feedback I
    believe.
    
    paco man
    

    
    You can get hold of a copy of the complete guide for 2 quid from the
    Reader Services dept at the Sindie.

    The price of CDs will never come down so long as enough people are
    prepared to pay it for the various commercial interests involved to
    make their profit goals.
    
    There are ways around it, though:-
    
    1. If you still have a record player, ask them to order it on vinyl. If
    they refuse, go elsewhere.
    
    2. Use mail order. A company called BeeBees sells single-album CDs for
    9.99. Phone only, no catalogue so you have to know what you want (no
    inspirational browsing). They're on 0621 850533.
    
    3. Import from the USA. Companies like Bose Express, Noteworthy, and
    Roundup will export and take credit card orders over the phone. If you
    call evenings or Saturday afternoon (UK time) the phone cost is no more
    than a few minutes UK trunk call at those times - provided of course
    you know what you want, have written it down ready, and don't indulge
    in idle chat! If you don't order too large a volume at once, and are
    patient enough to use surface mail, not only are freight costs
    reasonable but also HM Customs and Excise don't seem too bothered
    either. I've ordered LPs and CDs from Roundup, and even with phone
    charges and freight costs it works out around 60-70% of UK full retail.
    
    Apart from the lower cost, importing from the USA has another advantage
    in that you aren't restricted to the miserable uninspiring selection
    available in the average UK High St. shop. The USA outlets suggested
    usually have a minimum order size (in $$'s), so if you call first for a
    few albums you know of, and order a catalogue at the same time, you're
    well placed for the next order.
    
    Noteworthy is on 0101 603 883 9551
    Roundup is on 0101 617 661 6308
    
    You may find Bose Express' number in the CD conference.
    
    I don't have stock in any of these, by the way! ;-)
    
    Dave

    The June issue of Audiophile magazine had a book of vouchers on the
    cover which could be used to order any CD on general release in the UK
    for #9.49. There is no catch, no club to join, no minimum order and no
    obligation to buy any more than you want. The book contained 10
    vouchers and when they were exhausted you just phone a number on the
    inside cover and they send you a new one. The first book was valid
    until the end of the year. Not a bad deal , huh ? I know where I'll be
    getting my CDs from in future.
    
    Kev...

    The Los Angeles Times did a breakdown of the cost of CDs in America
    and compared it to cassette tapes.
    
    From what I remember, CD's "cost" price is about $6.50, and they 
    are sold for $12.99 - $15.99 (that means the record stores & 
    record companies get all of the excess profit.)  
    Tapes' "cost" price is $6.20, and they sell for $7.99 - $10.99.
    
    Now tell me if that's fair??  You should've read the whiney record
    company execs' & retails' responses to inquiries as to where the
    excess money is going.  ("We need it to sign new bands..." "remodel
    stores")
    
    -Vicki

I'm sure that, of that $6.50 , the *actual manufacturing cost* can only
be a very small portion.... and its lower than the vinyl counterpart.

Actually it should be easy to find out the real cost, since at DEC we 
comission some high volume CD production (its the same process whether its 
audio or software).

Dave

    >I'm sure that, of that $6.50 , the *actual manufacturing cost* can
    >only be a very small portion.... and its lower than the vinyl
    >counterpart.
    
    But Dave you have to consider paying the band, etc. for their work. 
    I'm sure you could buy blank CDs for $1.  I don't have the article
    anymore, but I think the manufacturing cost is about $.85.  
    
    The point is that the total cost - meaning that everyone is getting
    paid & the record company breaks even - is $6.50.  But the record
    company turns around and puts a high wholesale price on it & then the
    record stores jack up that price another $3+; so a $6.50 product
    becomes $14.99.
    
    -Vicki                                       

    
    Well the argument is that your getting more for your money. I mean 
    your CD (sometimes) has extra tracks, and it should last a lifetime
    without deteriorating.
    
    People generally think its worth it, and you can't really argue
    with that. If they didn't, the price would have to fall. 

    Its worth noting that the price of an album (on vinyl) hasnt
    significantly risen in the last 20 years. I'd say they are far
    more affordable now than when I was a child.

    BTW I don't resent the artists getting paid...

    I do resent the amount of money that goes into making promotion
    videos etc. and general hype for artists on the same label that are 
    basically talentless, however. And thats part of what you pay for.

    Dave

    As a kind of aside:
    
    The OFT (Office of Fair Trading) recently conducted a study into the
    pricing of CDs in the UK. It concluded that CDs were overpriced and
    subject to a higher markup than vinyl, but that there were no
    agreements between manufacturers aimed at controlling prices. Basically
    the manufacturers are just charging what the market will bear and,
    because of the absence of unfair practices, the OFT can do nothing. The
    only advice it could offer to buyers fed up with paying �14-00 for CDs
    was to shop around. As long as people are willing to pay inflated
    prices, the prices will remain inflated. 
    
    Balders

    re -.1
    
    For our US readers.... I was on hols in the US three weeks ago and the
    exchange rate I got made the 14 UKpounds mentioned equal to 25
    USdollars.
    
    I bought a CD out of a dump bin for 6.99 dollars (about 3 pounds). It
    was a double length, as well!
    
    The arguments from the trade just don't hold up.
    
    If they did, we would be paying the same low price in the UK that they
    are paying in the US.
    
    andy 
    

    I heard on the car radio this morning that the Office of Fair Trading
    is going to investigate CD prices, following a letter from a Labour MP
    to the Director of the OFT.
    
    Who wants to bet nothing will happen?
    
    Dave

It may not be that bad... the OFT has *already* considered the issue of CD
pricing, some 3 months ago (I think), coming to no positive conclusion. However,
the fact that they are looking again now, under a new head man's control, makes
me hopeful - almost as if it is a pet issue of his. I think he had some 
intervention in the decision to look again. (May be wrong)

								- JIM CAD*

I was in New York City a couple of weeks ago and looked into a record 
store hoping to pick up some real bargains.  The previous notes have got 
me wondering if I was seeing straight because I'm sure that the CDs were 
around $20 which, at $1.80-ish to the pound is still over 11 pounds per 
disc.  Not a great improvement over UK prices.  So I didn't buy any.  
Maybe it's because I was shopping in Times Square ?

Having said that, I fully endorse the previous comments about the range 
of CDs available.  I've yet to find a similar selection in the UK.  
Perhaps I've not looked hard enough :-)

Mike

    When I was in NYC a couple of months ago, back cat stuff in Tower was
    around $15 ish, new releases around $11.  Shopping around smaller shops
    brought up some real bargains tho.
    
    Mikef

    I recently received two CDs and an LP from Roundup in Boston. Total cost
    was $45, including $8 for surface mail and $6 for the latest catalogue.
    That's $39 or �20 approx. for the music and freight, and it only took
    14 days from my phone call to when the postie shoved them through the
    portch door.
    
    I call that a bargain, especially since if I asked for the artists
    (Duke Robillard, John Hammond, Johnny Adams) in my local Our Price 
    ("is the highest") I would probably still be waiting, having paid my
    deposit.
    
    That's if I could get to the counter for all the people queuing up to
    buy T-shirts, Viz mags, and condoms; assuming again that I could stand
    the distorted racket blasting out whilst queuing, and that I could make
    the sales-droid hear me when it was my turn.
    
    It may be a rathole but apart from the rip-off factor, has anybody else
    noticed what unpleasant, threatening places the modern "record" shop
    is? I've tried browsing the racks for inspiration, but if the futility
    of the task doesn't overcome me (lots of breadth of selection, but no
    depth; just how many different compilations of the same artiste are we
    supposed to want?), I'm usually driven out by the din, or the hordes who
    are attracted by it.
    
    The shops seem to be solely aimed at the "yoof" culture. When I was a
    teenager in the 60s I swore I would never have the same attitudes as
    the adults around me then when I was older, so I'm not just another
    anti-yoof wrinkly. IMHO, I think the young of today are badly served
    because society seems to have such low expectations of them, and
    nowhere is this more evident than in the local "record" shop. No wonder
    the modern music scene is so *sterile*.
    
    Dave
    

    I agree the Our Prices are uninspiring - but to dismiss all music made
    in the past few years as sterile is a painful generalisation.  Theres
    much more to it than appears each week on TOTP.
    
    Mikef

    re .17....
    "Theres much more to it than appears each week on TOTP."
    
    I agree 100%. There is lots of fresh and exciting new music around, in
    just about every genr�, and new artistes, but try finding them in a
    provincial "record" shop.
    
    Actually, at the risk of being picky, I said the scene was sterile, not
    the music, and I stand by that. It is because of the (manufacturing and
    retail) industry's marketing strategies that the scene is as it is.
    Perhaps it's just that listening to music at home just isn't a big
    priority for the majority, so the industry promotes what it can sell in
    large numbers, and subsidises that with T-shirt and magazine sales,
    rather than making space in the racks for something interesting. This 
    lowers buyers' expectations, and so the cycle continues.
    
    Maybe it's just sympomatic of the times we are living in. We are all
    guardians of our cultural heritage, but it seems the only places where
    anyone is bothered is abroad. Or in this notesfile ;-)
    
    Dave