Conference gyro::internet_toolss

Mark, the tunnel just creates a TCP/IP socket, so anything that you have that
does TCP/IP will just continue to work.  If the destination address is one
that is within your private network (as defined by the routes the tunnel
server has handed down to you), your traffic will magically go through the
tunnel without you doing anything other than initiating the tunnel connection.

j.

re .13:

why does the tunnel server not only hand routes to you, but appear
to take default routes away that you had before starting the tunnel?

example (windows NT 4.0 SP2):
NT routing IP with a local ethernet LAN and RAS with ISDN term adapter.
ethernet interface with a default route
ras interface with another default route
route print shows 2 default routes one on each interface ras metric 1 and
ethernet metric of 2.
start the tunnel.
tunnel server provides another default route on the tunnel interface.
also provides a route to 16.0.0.0 to the same place.
now the fun part:
Your ras connection drops and immediately redials.
The tunnel loses its mind and you (re)start it.
Do another route print.  Your default route on the ethernet interface is
GONE!  Your default route on the TUNNEL interface is also GONE!  the only
default route left is the one on the ras interface.  the 16.0.0.0 is still
there.
The big problem with this is, if ras drops / redials again, in the interim
before the connection is reestablished, there may be NO ROUTE to a lot
of ip connections.  If you're typing away in a telnet window on another
vms system running ucx on your ethernet lan, and your route goes away with
no alternate, your connection dies instantly.  If the default route
on the ethernet adapter were still on the nt router, your connection would
just hang until ras reestabliches the connection to the isp (thus giving
you the ras default route again).


Anyone got any ideas on this?  Is this expected behavior?  I have been
fighting this for many hours trying to get around it.  Also keep in 
mind this is the Try Me! version of workgroup tunnel (I am waiting on my
SSB order).  I have no documentation but this does not seem so bad
except for the zillion pseudoadapters and related mish mash in the 
registry...
			-bret

	I assume that this is about the group tunnel server?

		Danny

Sounds like a bug.  I've forwarded it the the right engineer.

j.

re .15,

yes group tunnel.

re .-1,
thanks!

more information:
I reproduced this last night under 3.51 sp5 also... exact same behavior.
Also noticed under 3.51 with the tunnel service installed , it took
20 MINUTES for the ras service to start up (??).  On the first boot
after installing the tunnel I thought the ras task was hung, but apparently
it wasn't... just took a heck of alot of patience.

question:
What is the proper forum for technical problems?  I am a telecommuter
and get to work on the Internet.  Should I use the website outside 
the firewall?   And if so, do I have to become a "partner" and /or
join the "visionary club"?  For the "partner" stuff do I have to 
use the web page or is there some shortcut for Digital internal folks?

		thanks Bret

� question:
� What is the proper forum for technical problems?  I am a telecommuter
� and get to work on the Internet.  Should I use the website outside 
� the firewall?   And if so, do I have to become a "partner" and /or
� join the "visionary club"?  For the "partner" stuff do I have to 
� use the web page or is there some shortcut for Digital internal folks?

There's an external forum at http://support.altavista.software.digital.com
where you can ask questions.  I read that regularly, as do some of the members
of the engineering team.  Unfortunately, there's no "official" place for
support right now.  Don't ask.  You'll just get me frustrated :-).

j.

    Ok, I've installed the AltaVista personal tunnel and have gotten it up
    and running. I can connect to internal websites and can use telnet on
    KEAterm instead of serial.  However I can't seem to map a network drive
    to my PC at Digital (oops DIGITAL) or connect to the Network
    Neighborhood.  
    
    Does anyone have any pointers that may help.
    
    Thanks,
    
    --Geoff

    re .-1 : These features (network drive mapping and Network Neighborhood
    browsing) are based on LAN Manager (NetBIOS) and therefore by default
    do not work over pure IP (which is what your tunnel is giving you).
    
    You can get the drive mapping to work by ensuring that your drives are
    served over IP (ensure that LAN manager computer name is the same as
    the IP name defined in either your client's LMHOSTS file or in a WINS 
    server).  Dunno if it is possible to get network neighborhood to work
    in such an environment.
    
    /Chris/
    
    P.S. While RAS offers the ability to transport NETBEUI as well as
    TCP/IP, the corporate CCS implementation is TCP/IP only, so RAS has the
    same restriction as the tunnel in this respect.

    Chris,
    
    Thanks for the quick reply.  It is very much appreciated and makes
    perfect sense.  
    
    My drives are served over IP.  All I have to do now is remember the IP
    address:-). worst case scenerio is that I'll have to wait until
    tomorrow.
    
    --Geoff

    There is a problem with mounting shares over the tunnel.  Microsoft in
    it's infinite wisdom sends out packets down the tunnel with the correct
    destination address but the wrong source address when doing netbios. 
    It basically picks the first network address and tries it.  When this
    connection gets' to the other side, the destination address has no way
    to get to the source address.  Eventually the connection times out and
    netbios tries the next network adapter.  If you have multiple adapters
    this could take a couple of minutes and sometimes it times out
    alltogether.  So it might take a while to connect, but once it is
    connected it works pretty well.  Microsoft has admitted this is a bug
    and hopefully are working on a fix.
    
    Dan
    

[email protected] wrote:
: Title: How does a tunnel work...
: Reply Title: It works but it can be slow.

:     There is a problem with mounting shares over the tunnel.  Microsoft in
:     it's infinite wisdom sends out packets down the tunnel with the correct
:     destination address but the wrong source address when doing netbios. 
:     It basically picks the first network address and tries it.  When this
:     connection gets' to the other side, the destination address has no way
:     to get to the source address.  Eventually the connection times out and
:     netbios tries the next network adapter.  If you have multiple adapters
:     this could take a couple of minutes and sometimes it times out
:     alltogether.  So it might take a while to connect, but once it is
:     connected it works pretty well.  Microsoft has admitted this is a bug
:     and hopefully are working on a fix.

Don't forget the case where a packet goes out the dial-up or Ethernet
interface with a 16.x.x.x destination address AND a 16.x.x.x source
address. Those packets get dropped with no acknowledgement at the Palo
Alto border routers (they look like, and are intermingled with, IP
spoofing attempts).

Stephen
- -----
Stephen Stuart				[email protected]
Network Systems Laboratory
Digital Equipment Corporation
[posted by Notes-News gateway]

> Dunno if it is possible to get network neighborhood to work
> in such an environment.

	In theory you can at least login to your LAN Manager Domain
	over TCP/IP. You have to tell the TCP/IP stack where to
	find the domain controller.

	For example:

		A Domain Controller is named "CONTROL"
		The Domain is named "OURDOMAIN"
		The address of "CONTROL" is 99.99.99.99

		In \<WIN95>\Lmhosts. or \<WINNT>\System32\Lmhosts. place
		the following line:

			99.99.99.99 CONTROL #PRE #DOM:OURDOMAIN

If these are private shares, never mind.

CCS is encouraging people not to run
NETbios at all & all CCS services are available via
TCP/IP & locatable via WINS.  You probably just need
to define WINS servers on the tunnel adapter (RAS
dynamically assigns these when you connect, but the
tunnel DHCP only supports address assignment at this
time).

See the Tunnel Frequently Asked Questions page for
more info & a pointer to the CCS list of WINS servers.
http://www.imc.das.dec.com/imcdocs/tunfaq.htm

RE: .25

	I think you meant to say that CCS is encouraging people
	to not run Netbeui, not Netbios. Netbeui is a lan protocol.
	Netbios is a networking interface that runs on top of
	netbeui and tcp and other protocols. (DECnet even I believe)

							mike

    Thanks for all of the help.  I should be able to get this up and
    running tonight.
    
    --Geoff

    Thanks to everyone's help I am up and running (for the most part).  I
    got to the Network Neighborhood, I got exchange setup and I can map to
    many systems that I have access to.  I can map a drive to my VMS
    account. Unfortunately I still can't map a drive to my PC!?*!? and
    can't see it on the neighborhood network.  I thought that maybe there
    ahd been a power hit and my pc was down, but when I got in here this
    morning everything was up and running.  
    
    Oh well, I'll get it figured out.  I'm a lot further along than I was.
    
    Once again, thanks to all of you,
    
    --Geoff