[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

Title:Discussions from a Christian Perspective
Notice:Prostitutes and tax collectors welcome!
Moderator:CSC32::J_CHRISTIE
Created:Mon Sep 17 1990
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1362
Total number of notes:61362

1320.0. "The things by which we are defiled" by CSC32::J_CHRISTIE (Mirthful Mystic) Mon Jan 20 1997 14:20

T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
1320.1MKOTS3::JMARTINEbonics Is Not ApplyMon Jan 20 1997 14:264
1320.2CSC32::J_CHRISTIEMirthful MysticMon Jan 20 1997 16:065
1320.3why we require a Savior & RedeemerPHXSS1::HEISERR.I.O.T.Mon Jan 20 1997 17:071
1320.4Jesus is emphasising the importance to safeguard's ones figurative heartRDGENG::YERKESSbring me sunshine in your smileTue Jan 21 1997 11:5988
1320.5SMARTT::DGAUTHIERTue Jan 21 1997 17:066
1320.6CSC32::J_CHRISTIEMirthful MysticTue Jan 21 1997 18:206
1320.7Repentance is about turning round from the wicked course that our parents may have put us onRDGENG::YERKESSbring me sunshine in your smileWed Jan 22 1997 08:3056
1320.8SMARTT::DGAUTHIERThu Jan 23 1997 11:4623
1320.9CSC32::J_CHRISTIEMirthful MysticFri Jan 24 1997 12:5114
    .8
    
    Interesting questions, Dave.  (As usual, I might add)
    
    I know this sounds awfully simplistic to say, but I think one must, at
    some point, take responsibility for one's own attitudes and actions.
    We all carry *some* debris from childhood.  Some carry a lot.  It's
    not always clear and easy to sort out or to make changes even after
    it's been identified.  Some deny it exists within themselves.  Some
    may even choose not to discard debris such as racial bigotry, but to
    embrace it.
    
    Richard
    
1320.10SMARTT::DGAUTHIERMon Jan 27 1997 14:2526
    Still using racial bigotry as an example, consider a white person born
    and raised in the deep south, say in the early 1800's when slavery was
    alive and ~well~.  All this person has ever been taught would enforce
    the racial bigotry, even that which was taught to him from the pulpit.
    He would probably take full responsibility for his attitudes and actions,
    be convinced that he was totally right, yet be totally wrong.  He was
    taught and believed that slaves were on par with horses.  And so, in
    the same sense you might regard yourself superior to a cat or dog, this
    fictitious person would have seen himself to be superior to slaves. 
    
    I think we all have to take responsibility for our attitudes and
    actions.  But I'm not sure what's more important, the attitudea and
    actions or the underlying intention given the flawed understanding we 
    have of matters.
    
    How should one react to one's 5 year old child who presents you with 
    a piece of paper that says "I Love You Daddy"... that piece of paper
    being the back of you diploma or something like that?  The action in
    and of itself damaging in a way.  But the intention was right on.
    
    I think we've got a responsibility to do the best we can and act in
    accordance to the honest beliefs we develop along the way.  And so, 
    the devout christian who told the little white lie could be more at
    fault than the delinquent who robs a liquor store.
    
    -dave
1320.11What ever a person sows, so they will reap irrespective of their backgroundRDGENG::YERKESSbring me sunshine in your smileTue Jan 28 1997 08:5350
re .8


;    How to you judge the quality of "what comes out"?  Can one action
;    defile one person but not the next?

Dave,

Willfully practising wicked deeds defile a person irrespective of background,
or whether or not they are aware of their actions. Take for example smoking,
for many years, persons smoked in ignorance to the effects of what this 
habit was having on themselves and those close to them. Today, there is a 
wealth of medical literature documenting the varied health implications of
smoking. Persons have suffered (been defiled) irrespective of whether or not 
they were aware of the results of their actions.

;    So, who's more guilty of immoral behavior, the devout christian who was 
;    strictly raised a christian and taught right/wrong all his life who 
;    tells a little white lie and knows what he did was wrong?  Or the kid
;    who was raised in a high crime situation, having been "taught" by
;    example what right and wrong is, who robs a liquor store?  The first 
;    one did something wrong and knows it.  The second did something which
;    he thinks is wrong only if you get caught.

As I understand law, one is still guilty eventhough one might be ignorant
or coerhersed into breaking the law. But you make an important point that 
often is overlooked as James 4:17 RSV reads "Whoever knows what is right 
to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin."

If we break a law, then to the letter of the law we are guilty. Fortunately,
not all authorities are so strict as to not show leniency. For example, some
years back a law officer pulled me and my friends up for what you would term
as jay walking  in Germany. Once he realised we were foreign and unaware that
we had comitted an offence, we were let off with a warning. However, when I
visited Kenya and during a violent storm we unknowingly parked in a wrong 
location I was given an on the spot fine as soon as the storm abated.

We are all guilty of sin, that is "to miss the mark" as to perfect obedience 
to God. But that doesn't mean that he doesn't take into account our weaknesses
and at times ignornance. As the apostle Paul put it in 1 Timothy 1:13 RSV 
"though I formerly blasphemed and persecuted and insulted him; but I 
received mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief,". For this reason
he has sent his prophets in the past to free men of ignorance to his
standards.  Persons, cannot claim ignorance if they ignore those that God
has sent. Just as the state make sure that persons are educated enough to
know the more serious laws.

God is a just one, but he also excercises his justice with mercy.

Phil.