Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    Not sure.  But here's my guess.  I think that he might be saying that
    when you see something in God, really see and understand some part of
    God, however small, then that same attribute is allowed to grow inside
    of you.  You sort of understand that it's real and true and because of
    that, you want it to be part of you too, so the seed begins to grow.
    The clearer your view of God through some "eye", the more God sees of
    himself in you. From your standpoint, the eye is your ability to
    understand God.  From God's standpoint, the eye is one of recognition
    of his attributes in you.

    Well, that's my take on it.

    Here's another quote from the book that I liked (although not from
    Eckhart)

    "Sufferring is not overcome by leaving pain behind.  Sufferring is
    overcome by bearing pain for the sake of others"

    Sound familiar?

    -dave

    Not one of the hotter topics I see :-)  ANyway, I was reading some more
    of the bok over the weekend and underlined another interesting quote
    from Eckhart. I don't have the book here at my desk, but it sort of
    goes like...
    
     "One should not have thoughts about God because when the thought goes,
    so does one's God"
    
    Again, ECkhart was a mystic.  He felt that every fiber of one's
    existence should be in tune with God 100% of the time.  God, in his
    view, was not so much an object, or external entity to be worshipped
    from afar.  Rather, he saw God as something to be experienced and united
    with here in this life.
    
    -dave

.2

>     "One should not have thoughts about God because when the thought goes,
>    so does one's God"
    
It's been said that thinking about God is actually an obstacle which eclipses
one's ability to see God.

Blessed are the pure in heart...

Richard

>    Again, ECkhart was a mystic.  He felt that every fiber of one's
>    existence should be in tune with God 100% of the time.  God, in his
>    view, was not so much an object, or external entity to be worshipped
>    from afar.  Rather, he saw God as something to be experienced and united
>    with here in this life.

Yup.  That's a mystic.  The belief in the direct experience of
God.

>It's been said that thinking about God is actually an obstacle which eclipses
>one's ability to see God.

Or talking about God too much.  :-)

Tom

    I read some more last night, and following up on Richard's citing of
    "Blessed are the pure of heart", Eckhart looked to "Blessed are the
    poor in spirit".  He said that in order for one to be filled with God,
    one must become empty first (poor in spirit.. HUMAN, FLAWED spirit) to
    receive God fully.  This wisdom, BTW, was mentioned centuries earlier
    by Lao-Tse... "If one wishes to be filled, one must first become empty".

    -dave

    Was Lao-Tse the Daoist?

>    Was Lao-Tse the Daoist?

    Yes.

    Not to get defensive or anything ( :-) but good ideas or
    perceptions *can* come from people who aren't Christian.

    Jesus was not the first wise person born.

    Tom

 ZZ   Jesus was not the first wise person born.
    
    Smiley face noted...but keep in mind there is wisdom that comes from
    above and then there is the wisdom of man which is foolish!
    
    -Jack

    Tom, if you consider hedonism wise, then so be it.  It became such a
    problem with the Chinese government in the first few centuries (A.D.)
    that they were forced to legislate morality to get the Daoist to tow
    the line.  they were an embarassment to Chinese society.
    
    Mike

Huh?

I just said that Jesus wasn't the first wise person on earth.

Perhaps not everything Lao-Tzu said agrees with Christianity,
but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

Tom

 ZZ   I just said that Jesus wasn't the first wise person on earth.
    
    I said this because scripture teaches that the wisdom of man is
    foolish.  Therefore, Jesus being the firstborn of all creation would
    have actually been the first wise person on earth.
    
    I know, I'm stretching it.  I knew what you meant! :-)

|I just said that Jesus wasn't the first wise person on earth.
|
|Perhaps not everything Lao-Tzu said agrees with Christianity,
|but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.
    
    Not every Daoist agreed with Lao-Tzu either.
    
    Faithful in the small things, faithfull in the big things.  True wisdom
    is not temporal.  You shouldn't even be putting babies in water like
    that to begin with.
    
    Mike

    You can't say that the very same wisdom is both foolish AND divine and
    that it's state is a function of where you heard it.  It's truth is
    independent of the source.  Or, if it's source was ultimately God, then 
    God inspired the ancient Chinese and Indians as well as the Isrealites.
    
    -dave
    
    

    RE .12 (Mike)
    
    >ou shouldn't even be putting babies in water like
    >    that to begin with.
    
    I don;t think Tom put the baby in the water.  Lao-Tzu didn't either
    because he was completely unaware of the existence of the Bible, Judea,
    etc... .  Yet there it is, the baby in the bath water.  
    
    If man didn't put it there, who did?
    
    -dave

>    If man didn't put it there, who did?

	Woman

    >Woman
    
    I guess!
    
    
    It is a problem, isn't it?  If all in the Bible is God's wisdom, and
    some of that is found in external, indepentend sources, then either
    God inspired the authors of those sources or those authors came up with 
    the wisdom on their own... which is impossible because the bible says
    that all man can come up with is foolishness.  But their foolishness 
    appears to be the same as divine biblical wisdom.
    
    
    
    

    I don't see any wisdom in Daoism.  Neither did most Chinese.

    If any part of Daoist philosophy is the same as Jesus' philosophy, 
    then would you find that portion of Jesus' philosophy as unwise as well?
    
    Would you consider the possibility that a non bible based philosophy might
    contain wisdom? 
    
    -dave