Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    Let no woman whatsoever shaketh her booty, for no righteous
    man may abide with it. And let no man get down and boogie
    for he can not keep up with the king ("king" from the Greek
    word "Elvine", or the Latin, "Elvus")

    Tom

>"Preaching against:  Adlutery, divorce & remarriage, marriage annulment,
>fornication, COMMON-LAW LIVING, ORAL SEX, lusting, homosexuality, lesbianism,
>pimps, pornography, MIXED BATHING, WOMEN WEARING SHORTS, hatred, stealing,
>[sic] sheating, lying, deceiving, gambling, using God's name in vain, dope
>addiction, alcoholic beverages, tobacco use, smoking, pride, MAKE-UP,
>certain TELEVISION PROGRAMS, etc., suicide, murder, rape, bribery, extortion,
>arson, MINI SKIRTS, revenge, burglary, ROCK MUSIC, and all the rest that the
>Bible comdemns!"

    Well, none of those things are going to get you closer to God.
    I really can't see where a woman wearing shorts will get in
    the way, though.

    I believe the viewpoint is that sex is Okay, in that it's the
    most straight forwards way of producing children, but that
    sexy distracts people from God.  My *personal* take on make-up
    is that it makes a woman more of a sex object, a "painted doll"
    if you will.  

    As for other things, TV programs won't get you any closer to
    heaven.  More often than not they're a waste of time.  Rock 
    music, by and large, doesn't inspire spirituality either.
    (Ooooo, baby baby baby, Oooo Oooo Oooo :-)

    As for "mixed bathing, shorts and mini-skirts", I'd rather not
    get caught up in their insecurities.

    I'd rate the whole thing as "mostly harmless" unless they want
    to get laws passed against the whole list.

    Tom

    BTW: Where does it say that oral sex is out and that swimming
    can't mix genders?  

    Gee Richard,
    
    Maybe after the Heifer Roast, we can go to the revival!.
    
    
    (I wonder what the dress code is ! (:-9)
    

    Well, I'll expect you to wear the veil (I forgot the name)
    that women must wear in Saudi Arabia.

    Come to think of it, that would make an interesting protest...

    Tom

    tom,
    
    How about Belly Dancing in the veils.  Now Belly Dancing is not on the
    Evangelist's list.
    
                                   Patricia

    Re: .0
    
    sounds like quite the legalist.  You would think people would know by
    now that they can't work their way to heaven.  

 I wonder if the preacher in .0 will preach the gospel..as my pastor
 says "our job is to catch the fish..God will clean them"..in other words
 we need to see people saved..as they grow in teh knowledge and understanding
 they will see many of those things in .0 are no longer a problem.

 Unfortunately, such ads will scare away the lost.  Then again, there are
 many who are saved who need to hear such messages once in a while.



 Jim

    About the add scaring away the "lost".  In that, Jim, we are in
    agreement.
    
    Tom

 ZZ    Let no woman whatsoever shaketh her booty, for no righteous
    
    Does this mean we can't listen to KC and the Sunshine Band!?

    .0 is what you get when you data mine the Bible for all the DON'Ts.  The
    result is ridiculous.  It almost seems as though opponents to the
    christian right might have compiled .0 and spread it around as a form of
    negative advertisement.
    
    But I disagree that all things in .0 cannot get one closer to God. 
    Wearing a pair of shorts might be a step in the "right" direction for a
    nudist.  And killing others was the required course for the Isrealites
    with regard to how to deal with the Caananites.
    
    -dave
    

ZZ    [Caps mine to emphasize my curiosity.]  What say you of this mixture?
    
    Sounds to me like he could have saved alot of typing by saying
    something to this effect....
    
    "We at the ....  ..... church invite to listen to Pastor ... ...... as
    he gives a lecture on the attributes of the human condition.  We hope
    you will find this informative and applicable to your life."
    
    I also notice he left gluttony out...something I think is more
    applicable in our society.
    
    -Jack
    

	Jack, no KC and the Sunshine Band!

 Having attended many revivals in my day, several of which at independant
 fundamental churches, I've heard many messages during which items in
 .0 where addressed, or mentioned.  Again, I think many of those things
 are aimed at Christians who need to hear (me included) that there
 are things of the world ("non churched") that we are not to be a part of.
 The Bible is clear on that "Avoivd all appearances (forms) of evil",
 "do not have fellowship with them" and "do not be conformed to this
 world", and so I suspect that much of those in .0 are aimed at those
 practicing Christians.


 I don't agree with the stress that is made on the "don'ts" 100% of
 the time as in many cases it seems that we can be caught up in a
 works, or as Mr. Heiser put it, a legalistic system.  Nonetheless,
 many of those items are areas that Christians, walking in the spirit,
 should automatically avoid as we grow in Christ.

 Revivals are meant to accomplish a restoration, or regeneration in Christians,,
 but also to attract the lost to hear the gospel



 Jim

    Historically speaking, revival only comes about when God's people show
    genuine repentance.  It has nothing to do with planning on our part.
    I think it's strange when I hear people say, "Come on out, we're having
    revival tonight!"  It begs the question, "What have you repented of for
    God fill your church with His presence?"

 Good point..




 Jim

    I'm not familiar with revivalist movements.  Is this a personal house
    cleaning thing or a community thing where an attempt is made to expunge 
    undesirable behaviours from the society?
    
    -dave

 I don't know what is meant by "revivalist movements".  Mike pointed out
 that "revival" is something that should go on in the hearts of Christians
 all the time, ie, reviewing one's relationship with God, examining one's
 life and repenting of those sins which have caused/do cause a break
 in that relationship.

 Many churches, mine included, do have an annual "revival meeting" where
 a guest evangelist will come to town and spend x number of days (at my
 church the meetings usually start on a Sunday morning and run through
 Friday night).  During this period it is an opportunity for the believer
 to be "recharged" or "refocused" by the Word of God preached by the
 evangelist.  Recently, for example, our revival meetings consisted of
 messages on soul winning (sharing the gospel with others), our service
 to the Lord, or the priorities in our lives, etc.  We will also invite
 our unsaved friends and neighbors to come and many are saved during these
 sessions as well as re-commitments of lives to the Lord.

 While revival is an ongoing thing, I find these meetings to be a wonderful
 time of preaching and teaching and realignment with the Lord.  Sadly, the
 week is over much too soon.



 Jim

...and, I might add..at the several fundamentalist, Baptist revival meetings
I've attended, at several different churches, there has never been a movement
 to "expunge" the "undesirables" from the community.

 As my pastor said just last night "we are all nothing but dirty rotten sinners"
 saved by the grace of God.




 Jim

    OK Jim. Thanks. Just curious.
    
    -dave

Allow me to ask about a few from .0:

>"Preaching against:  Adultery, divorce & remarriage, marriage annulment,
>fornication, COMMON-LAW LIVING,
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I've heard of common-law marriage, which is legal in some states.  But
what is common-law living?  Cohabitating?  If so, why is it called
"common-law"?

>ORAL SEX,
 ^^^^^^^^
Is there a specific prohibition against oral sex to be found in the Bible?

>lusting, homosexuality, lesbianism, pimps, pornography,
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^  ^^^^^^^^^^
I wondered when I read this why the writer separated out "lesbianism" from
"homosexuality".

>MIXED BATHING,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A husband and wife should never shower together?  Is there a specific
prohibition in the Bible against this?

>WOMEN WEARING SHORTS,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Again, is there a specific prohibition in the Bible against this?  And
what about men wearing shorts?  I have a photo in which Jack is wearing
shorts.  I think his wife is, too.

>hatred, stealing,
>[sic] sheating, lying, deceiving, gambling, using God's name in vain, dope
>addiction, alcoholic beverages, tobacco use, smoking, pride, MAKE-UP,
>certain TELEVISION PROGRAMS, etc., suicide, murder, rape, bribery, extortion,
>arson, MINI SKIRTS, revenge, burglary, ROCK MUSIC, and all the rest that the
>Bible comdemns!"

 Perhaps you could call the church and ask them what is meant?  I could
 answer a few (women wearing shorts for example) but I'm sure it would
 degenerate into another rathole and more sarcasm and accusations of
 sexism and mysogeny, etc.

 
  Jim

|>ORAL SEX,
| ^^^^^^^^
|Is there a specific prohibition against oral sex to be found in the Bible?
    
    Not that I know of.  This was brought up during our anonymous Q&A
    session at our men's retreat last year.  The consensus was that it is
    okay to talk to your spouse during sex. ;-)
    
    Actually the consensus among the panel of our elders and pastors was
    that despite it not being in the Bible, you have health concerns to be
    aware of.  They said this would be plenty of justification to not
    perform such acts, but they left it up to individual discretion.

|>MIXED BATHING,
| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|A husband and wife should never shower together?  Is there a specific
|prohibition in the Bible against this?
    
    I sure hope not.

|>WOMEN WEARING SHORTS,
| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|Again, is there a specific prohibition in the Bible against this?  And
|what about men wearing shorts?  I have a photo in which Jack is wearing
|shorts.  I think his wife is, too.
    
    Again, no, but we are called to be modest and are told not to cause a
    brother to stumble.  Especially in church, we shouldn't be dressed in a
    way to draw attention to yourself and away from God.  If you've blessed
    with an attractive body, wear your beach clothes to the beach (and not
    church) and show them how spiritually immature you are there.  Of
    course, with new believers we show some tolerance while their wardrobes
    catch up with their hearts.  

    Mike

|>MIXED BATHING,

    I believe what they mean by mixed bathing is swimming at
    same beach.

    I said way back that none of the things mentioned could
    help you get closer to God.  Thinking about it, there is
    an exception:  homosexuality.

    There are very strong life lessons learned by one who is
    gay.  When approached maturely and rationally, the lessons
    learned and the experiences had can transcend carnel
    enjoyment.  Much the same can be said for non-gay relationships.

    I'm not trying to start something.  I just want to clarify
    /correct what I said before.

    Tom

    
    re:-1
    
    thanks, tom. i was wondering whether or not i should jump in here and
    point that out...
    
    for myself, being gay has most certainly pushed me to questions about
    myself and my relationship to God.
    
    peter

    
    Revivalism is directly linked to our early history as a nation. 
    Preachers were scarce at one time and people scattered across the land. 
    Revivalism revolved around the camp meeting which was a prolonged
    period (days) of camping, preaching, socializing, etc.   Since Baptists
    and Methodists and their congregational forms of govt. were strongest
    in rural America, they were the sources of revivalism and the holdovers
    of today.
    
    jeff