Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    Silence is not golden.
    
    Every church organization owes it to the membership to have public
    discussion and policy about sexual abuse.  If the Cardinal is innocent,
    he should state his innocents.  If guilty, he should resign.  The
    church itself should have practices in place to investigate and reach
    its conclusion.  Silence serves no one in this issue.
    
    It is even a greater atrocity to have Priests, Bishops, etc in office
    who have publically confessed their own abuse of children.  It is awful
    for the Bishop quoted to state "God has cleansed the boys soul."  That
    boys relationship with God will always be impacted by the Priests
    abuse.
    
    The issue of clerical abuse is a problem that every church has to
    wrestle with.  The discussions should be public, the message from the
    church should be unequivocal that Sexual Abuse will not be tolerated,
    and actions against those who perpetuate abuse should be clear.
    
                               Patricia

>	....an issue which, as I
>	understand it, would not make waves in the USA but....

I think this perception is off a bit.  An ex-priest named Porter (See 41.153)
as well as a number of others were in the public eye a lot in the USA some
time ago.  As I recall, the attention perturbed at least one noter here (See
topic 649).

Generally speaking, I do not support secrecy or keeping the truth hidden.

Shalom,
Richard

    Derek,
    
    please excuse my bad manners.  I should have welcomed you back before I
    jumped into the discussion.  But it was such a good question!
    
    
    Welcome back.  I missed ya!
    
    
                                   Patricia

    Unless the church is spending mucho bucks on providing the 
    molested children with health giving therapy over their 
    issues of being the victims of childhood abuse, I don't see
    any good of the hierarchy proclaiming that God has washed
    their wounds.  Priests are in a position of special power
    and must be held accountable for their worldly sins against
    the child and not wait for God to absolve them on their day
    of reckoning.  Even if the church was providing mucho bucks
    for healing, the church does need to set THE ULTIMATE example
    of the fact that this is indeed a most ungodly sin to commit
    and not hide it under their robes.  

    Bottom line...silence only leads to perpetration of the deed.
    Loud voices portraying the ungodliness of this type of abuse
    will lead to healing and put a stop to this crime.

    justme....jacqui

	One of the most distasteful aspects of the current debate in Austria
	is the attempt from some quarters (clerical and lay) to make Groer
	the victim and his accusers the culprits. It reminds me of many rape
	cases where the woman is represented as guilty because she smiled, or
	wore a mini-skirt thus causing her "victim" to flip out.

	In one news magazine, out of 107 reprinted readers' letters, no less
	than 42 supported Groer against his accusers. Support ranged from "so
	what, Groer has always been a good priest to me." through "they [the
	accusers] must be sick in the head" or "why did they wait more than 20
	years to bring up this stuff?"
	There was even speculation of a church-internal political motive. Groer
	is 75 and, last fall, tendered his resignation. There has been signs
	of a struggle for succession since then.
	
	Three Austrian bishops have come down firmly on Groer's side while a 
	further trio has spoken of the need for openness and clear debate.
	(We have only about nine bishoprics in Austria).

	Groer's persistent silence has, for the most part, added fuel to the
	debate and has angered many who want to believe in his innocence but
	see his silence and an admission of guilt. One reader's letter echos
	many similar: "Groer is innocent of child-molestation. What I do not
	understand is why he does not simply stand up and say 'I am innocent.
	End of the debate'."

	Sooner or later, a politician will be caught with his hands in this
	or that public cash register and Groer will be relegated to the inside
	pages. The question is: would this happen sooner if he were to speak
	openly or by remaining silent"?

	Greetings, Derek.
               

    I am familiar with what my church is doing about the issue of Clergy
    Misconduct.  There is a UUA committee that is investigating the impact
    of Clergy sexual misconduct on congregations.  There is personnel
    support to congregations who have had a problem.
    
    There is the Ministerial Fellowship Committee that credentials
    ministerial candidates and also has the power to decredential ministers
    for misconduct.  There was a letter from the UUA that was circulated to
    all Congregations identifying  how serious the UUA took the issue and
    recommending steps and procedures to prevent misconduct and to deal
    with it if it occurs.
    
    The UUA is very open about the concern and the issue.
    
    Does anyone know what the Catholic church is doing to address the
    issue?  What instructions are given to Catholics regarding sexual
    abuse?  What steps are taken when a Clergy person is accused of sexual
    abuse?  What steps are taken if that clergy person is found culpable?
    
    
    What are other denominations doing?
                                 Patricia

Note 1076.6

>    What are other denominations doing?

I know the United Methodist Church has a procedure in place when the issue of
sexual misconduct arises.

Shalom,
Richard

>I know the United Methodist Church has a procedure in place when the issue of
>sexual misconduct arises.


    For this and all churches in the world...

    	WHAT ABOUT TRAINING AND OPENESS ABOUT THE ISSUE *before* IT
    	ARISES???

    	
    Dragging the issue of sexual misconduct in churches whether it be 
    by the minister or by any other church-goer out into the open will
    do more to cure it than to wait until it happens.  At least make
    sure the issue is alive in the minds of church-goers that it is not
    to be tolerated in any form.  

    justme....jacqui

1076.8

>    	WHAT ABOUT TRAINING AND OPENESS ABOUT THE ISSUE *before* IT
>   	ARISES???

I tend to agree, Jacqui.  I, too, believe in being preventive and pro-active
in addressing such issues.  At the same time, I suspect sexual misconduct is
not likely to disappear completely no matter how much attention it receives
in advance.

Shalom,
Richard

    Richard,

    It might not completely disappear.  It might just do some good
    to start the socialization process that sexual abuse is not a 
    good thing to do and that it is not going to be hidden in back
    of the church cloakroom gathering church mouse droppings.  By
    making it part of the no-no's of life, we then validate many,
    many individuals who have been victimized and been over-looked.

    justme....jacqui

1076.10

I agree 100%.  You've provided the reason I've repeatedly brought the issue
up here in the conference in spite of such reactions as that in 649.16.

The wide-reaching effects of sexual improprieties have had an impact on my
own church.  Our previous pastor, who served this particular church for
nearly 20 years, was called to a Denver-area church almost a year ago to
replace a pastor there involved in sexual misconduct and to begin the
enormous task of bringing about congregational healing.

Shalom,
Richard

In article <1076.0-950418-080152@valuing_diffs.christian-perspective>, [email protected] (Another day older and deeper in debt) says:

	I'm new to this conference, so pardon me if I butt in.  After
reading most of the responses, it feels to me like everyone is being
pretty judgemental.  It's between the priest and God, through Jesus, what
is do be done about any sins if they were committed.  

	'Judge not lest ye be judged'.

in Christ,
Jim
[posted by Notes-News gateway]

    The priest forgiveness is between the priest and God.
    
    It is however the responsibility of the Church leadership to make sure
    that the message to parisheners that Sexual abuse will not be tolerated
    is fully communicated, and that any person found guilty of such an
    atrocity, be taken out of any position where they can do more harm.
    
    
                          Patricia

    Bingo!!!

    The cowardly bombing in Oklahoma City and a couple of local event have
    pushed the Groer affair right out of the spotlight. Today's paper does
    not mention him.
    
    In Cardinal Groer's case, it seems, silence was golden.
    
    Greetings, Derek.