Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

From 1002.117          The Oldest Known Copy of the Bible             117 of 117
POWDML::FLANAGAN "I feel therefore I am"             15 lines   9-NOV-1994 11:14
                           -< beyond time and space >-
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    Derek, John,
    
    I agree with John on this one.  ON the complete otherness of God. On
    the complete mystery and uncomprehensibleness of the Divine.
    
    For me it is sort of like reflecting on the concept of infinity. 
    Mathematically we can treat it like a number and observe relationships as
    things approach infinity, but then we can always add one to infinity.
    
    We can define attributes of God, and experience aspects of God in our
    lifes and all around us but we can never understand, experience, or
    comprehend the totality that is God.  Time and Space are all definable
    and limited.  God is beyond time and space and all human limits.
    
                                 Patricia

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    >    The real Heresy is to preach that salvation is dependent on the
    >    understanding of such obscure doctrine.  (Patricia)

*No one has said that salvation is dependent upon individuals fully
*understanding doctrines.

*However, salvation aside, there is a duty to attempt to understand
*and also not to teach against Truth.  (John)

*And one should not be dishonest and teach against a straw horse.(John)

    
    That is exactly the point I am trying to make.  Just as God is beyond
    Time and Space so also is Truth about God beyond human understanding
    and also beyond anything human.  If the Bible were also beyond Time and
    Space, it would be worthy of our worship.  If the Bible is the Source
    of Truth, then the Bible also would be beyond time and space.  The
    bible is real, physical, and here and now.  it has an origin, a
    history, a perspective.  It is not Truth.  It contains some truths but
    it does not contain Truth.  Since the Bible is human, of time and
    history, it contains human flaws.  Since it contains human flaws, it
    contains untruths as well a truths.
    
    My opinion about any doctrine, such as the Doctrine of the Trinity and
    the Bible are the same.  They are products of humans.  They are
    products of inspired humans, they contain some revelation but they are
    not Revelation.  They are not Truth.  They are not Gods.
    
    IMO,  Heresy is to preach as Truth that which is not truth.  Heresy is to
    preach that anything is Truth since Truth cannot be known by finite
    humanity.  All of our definitions of Truth fall short of the reality. 
    As humans we must stand in humility before God in faith and and with
    limited understanding.  Each of us "sees in the mirror dimly" but with
    Faith, "face to face."  (From 1Cor 13)
    
    That is the key point I have been trying to make throughout my noting
    here.  The Heresy is not in believing, but in believing that one has
    "Truth" which noone can have. 
    
    The sin is to act on that false belief
    and negatively impact others who do not acknowledge for Truth, that
    which cannot be truth.
    
                                           Patricia 

    If we accept that Truth is beyond human understanding then the only
    person who could have Truth is a God.
    
    If a person claims to know the Truth and acts on that knowledge in a
    way that impacts others, than is not that person making of
    himself/herself a God?  Is this not Heresy?
    
                                       Patricia

    If religious movements could be classified psychologically, the label
    schizophrenic would certainly apply to a group where members attempt
    to:
    
    - laud the selfless sacrifice of Christ's crucifixion
    - often quote scripture in a feigned effort to validate its worth
    
    while also:
    
    - repudiating the virgin birth, deity of Christ
    - rejecting the Nicene, Chalcedonian, and Apostles' Creeds
    - believing all souls will ultimately be saved

    .4
    
    Does thee truly know someone diagnosed as schizophrenic, friend?
    
    Does the patient exhibit such symptoms?
    
    

    Mike,
    
    4 of your 5 bullets could apply to Unitarian Christians.  There is
    nothing Schitzofrenic about them.
    
    As for quoting scripture in a feigned attempt to proves its worth, I
    would like to explain why I quote scripture even though I do not
    believe quoting scripture proves anything other whether  I know scripture.
    
    - I quote scripture because it is the only argument a Bible believing
    Christian will listen too.  It has been my observation that Bible
    believing Christians without truly understanding their actions, choose
    the pieces of scripture that supports their arguments while ignoring
    the pieces of scriptures that refute them or show that the arguments
    are inconsistent.
    
    - I quote scripture to show where there is truth in beauty in scripture
    i.e Love your Neighbor as well as to show where there is scripture that
    should not be held as sacred.  I do this to prevent people from being
    oppressed by scripture.
    
    
    
                                Patricia
                                & still a daughter of the Arian Heresy!!

    I thought Unitarians considered "Unitarian" and "Christian" mutually
    exclusive...
    
    Based on their beliefs, I think the Unitarian-Universalist merger was a
    bad one.  They don't have much doctrine in common.
    
    Maybe they are schizo! ;-)
    
    Mike

    Mike,
    
    See note 473 for the answer to your query about Unitarian Universalism.
    
                                Patricia