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Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

Title:Discussions from a Christian Perspective
Notice:Prostitutes and tax collectors welcome!
Moderator:CSC32::J_CHRISTIE
Created:Mon Sep 17 1990
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1362
Total number of notes:61362

1001.0. "Update from Austria." by VNABRW::BUTTON (Another day older and deeper in debt) Thu Oct 27 1994 07:13

	A quick update on church affairs in Austria.

	In a previous string, I reported on a debate about the ultra-
	conservatism of the -- then newly appointed -- Bishop of St.
	Poelten, Bishop Krenn. The Catholic community, both clerical and
	lay, was very strongly polarized (was always; but the differences
	surfaced and were, at times, very acrimonious).

	The actual disagreement then was never satisfactorily settled but
	an armed truce reigned for a while. There have been debates about
	themes such as females serving at Mass; the appointment of this
	or that person as deacon, professor of theological learning etc.; the
	use of certain vaccines (animal-tested, or derived from aborted
	foetus); the german translation of the Creed; whose name should/can
	be taken by husband and wife when they marry; and, the latest, is
	a revival of the "should divorced persons recieve holy communion?"
	theme.

	It is difficult for outsiders to understand how deeply intertwined
	are state and church affairs in Austria: even the average Austrian
	has difficulty in grasping the facts. During the recent governmental
	elections, our party leaders made highly publicised pilgramages to
	Bishops of various flavours. Haider (Freedom Party: an ultra right
	wing party which is very anti foreigners -- and is linked with neo
	nazi activities) visited Bishop Krenn: which, of course, got splash
	coverage in all independant media. Busek (Conservative Party:
	genuinely middle-of-the-road and boring, although Busek himself is
	a man of great intellect) visited Bishop Iby of Eisenstadt who is
	a fairly liberal Catholic. Vranizky (Prime Minister and leader of
	the Socialist Party, fairly middle-of-the-road to appease their
	Conservation coalition partners) called on Archbishop Groer, Bishop
	of Vienna and boss-man in Austria. During the campaign, we heard
	-- occasionally very specific, but mostly quite subtle -- advice on
	who to vote for from the pulpits. One FP� poster showed Haider and
	Krenn in each others' arms (it was a clumsy montage).

	Archbishop Groer, fairly -- but not extremely, although *very*
	Maria-centric -- conservative, is 75 soon and must tender his
	retirement. to the Vatican. Of course, there is considerable press
	speculation as to who his successor will be (Krenn has been named
	as have one or two other, less extreme Bishops), although Groer
	seems to be in good health and will probably be asked to continue
	for a while in office (as happend with his predecessor, Cardinal
	K�nig). The government has already announced that it is to send a 
	delegation to the Vatican for "advisory discussions" and Cardinal
	Ratzenb�ck (sp?) -- the Vatican's modern-day Grand Inquisitor --
	is reported to be coming to Austria to "gather information". Since
	he is an Austrian, his planned visit could be private and any
	connection with the selection of a Groer successor could be pure
	press-speculation.

	Several books have been published recently: on Opus Dei and Krenn's
	relationship to it; the same on Opus Angelorum (sp?) and several
	"pop-theological" works, one by a prominent politician & journalist
	Alfred Worm, and another on the never-ending supposed involvement
	of the Vatican with the Mafia.

	One book, announced only recently, called "Linker Jesus, Rechte
	Kirche" (Left Jesus, Right Church) by a Priest of the St. Poelten
	diocese, Dr. Udo Fischer, is likely to cause waves in the near
	future. In it, he addresses, amongst others, the theme of divorce
	and Communion. According to the press preview, he says: a man who
	is divorced from a consummated but infertile marriage is refused
	communion, even he remarries and has several children. Whereas
	Hitler, if he had gone to confession at any time, would have been
	granted the sacrement. The married man would only be allowed
	the sacrement if he left his new wife and children and returned
	to his first wife.                                      

	If this is true, it seems to me that there is much work to be done
	in the church.

	A recent "readers letter" on this theme pointed out that the church
	is doing little to advance its cause when it agrees to the nulli-
	fication of a marriage in the House of Grimaldi, (Princess of Monaco 
	and daughter of the late Princess Grace Kelly) even though
    	confession or consummation were not issues.

	There is enough fuel for a long hot Winter in Austria.

	Greetings, Derek.
    
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1001.1Add-on updateVNABRW::BUTTONAnother day older and deeper in debtThu Oct 27 1994 07:1628
	Add-on to Austrian update.

	If I gave the impression that I have a Catholic bias in the base-
	note, let me point out that Austria is well over 90% Catholic and
	it is the nature of the media to emphasize the negative. My own
	information comes largely from the media although I do have
	friends in the priesthood. They only confirm that, at present, and
	in particular in Austria, the Catholic church is passing through 
	a very difficult period.

	But: There is also positive material to report.

	The Catholic church in Austria is doing more than any other
	organisation I know to help those suffering in the former Jugoslavia.
	In cooperation with engaged media, mostly one newspaper and the
	state-run radio-TV group, they are regularly financing and sending
	convoys of food, medicine and clothing into all districts where
	the fighting has been (still is being) conducted.

	More! Both Clerics and lay persons continuously risk their lives
	when they accompany these convoys and when they defy militia to
	get convoys through road-blocks or to give aid to people lying
	wounded in range of sniper fire.

	These people are heros in my opinion, and they derive their 
	strength from their beliefs.

	Greetings, Derek.	
1001.2LGP30::FLEISCHERwithout vision the people perish (DTN 297-5780, MRO3-3/L16)Thu Oct 27 1994 09:3615
re Note 1001.1 by VNABRW::BUTTON:

> 	it is the nature of the media to emphasize the negative. 

        I would suggest, rather, that it is the nature of the media
        to report the unusual and sensational.  I would further
        suggest that this is so because we, the customers of the
        media, are more interested in the unusual and the
        sensational.

        The media are inter*media*ries -- the readers and the
        listeners and the viewers ultimately decide what gets
        conveyed.

        Bob
1001.3COVERT::COVERTJohn R. CovertThu Oct 27 1994 16:0733
>According to the press preview, he says: a man who is divorced from a
>consummated but infertile marriage is refused communion, even he remarries
>and has several children.

Yes.  Jesus forbids remarriage.  Unless the original marriage can be
legitimately determined to have never existed because of some serious
defect (consanguinity, lack of consent, undisclosed impotence), if the
Church is to do what Jesus says, "remarriage" is impossible, and is,
as he says, _adultery_.

>Whereas Hitler, if he had gone to confession at any time, would have been
>granted the sacrament.

Hitler should be able to receive the sacrament if he confesses his sins and
asks for forgiveness.  Jesus told us to unconditionally forgive anyone who
repents, and to do so as many times as necessary.  Now, of course, a priest
has the responsibility to determine in the confessional whether a penitent
person is sincere, but the priest probably should err on the side of believing
the penitent person unless there is a good reason not to.

>The married man would only be allowed the sacrament if he left his new wife
>and children and returned to his first wife.                                      

He would be allowed the sacrament if he came to confession and promised either
to return to his first wife or live in celibacy with his new wife.

The bottom line for the Church in all of this is

		No compromise on morality required by Jesus,

		No limitation on forgiveness required by Jesus.

/john