Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    RE: .0
    
    I'll take a stab at it. 
    
    I would start by believing that everything in the Gospel's are true
    as written. Most times, I've found the sayings of Christ easy to
    understand, but hard to do.
    
    From there, I'm trying to determine how much of the rest of the New
    Testament is true...I'm still learning there.
    
    As far as the Old Testament goes, I view the whole part as a previous
    set of rules and regs that were needed at the time, but, were replaced
    by the New Covenant that Christ Established.
    
    
    Marc H.

    Marc,
    
    How do you interpret what looks like historical differences in the Gospels.  I.E.
    geneology, where Mary and Joseph travelled to after the birth, Who
    Jesus appeared to after the resurrection?
    
    I agrees with you that the sayings and stories are wonderful ways of
    teaching difficult lessons.  There are some sayings of Jesus that I
    don't think are accurate.  I cannot picture Jesus really threatening
    with weeping and gnashing of teeth.  I cannot picture Jesus actually
    exorcising real physical demons.  Spiritual demons, yes.  Anxieties,
    yes.  Neurosis, yes.  Not physical demons.
    
    I am not trying to focus on any one particular thing.  Just what does
    authoritative mean and can it allow for historic inaccuracy.
    
    Patricia

    RE: .2
    
    Well, to be honest, I haven't studied the Gospels enough to have
    found the historical differences you sighted....i.e. I'm still
    very much a beginner when it comes to Biblical Study.
    
    I have read most of the Gospels through, but, I need to read them more.
    
    
    Not trying to bad mouth Catholics, but, the Bible was not a significant
    part of my upbringing as a RC. Until I had a son, and rejoined the
    Church ( other note), I hadn't *ever* owned or read a Bible!
    
    Currently, I'm reading the Bible some each night, and trying to
    learn.
    
    Marc H.

    Marc,
    
    I do admire your quest. It has been about three years now that I have
    been trying to read through the Bible.  I am at the point now where I
    am saying OK, now I understand what is in there.  Now I understand how
    some people relate to the Bible.  I cannot relate to the Bible as a
    conservative Christian does.  What then does the Bible mean to me? 
    what authority does it hold?  What anti-authority does it encourage. 
    For me that means, what things that are not sacred are promoted by the
    Bible on the basis of implied authority.
    
    Studying 1 corinthians was monumental for me.  I typed up everything in
    1 Corinthians that I found inspirational.  I headed my notes personal
    inspiration from 1 Corinthians.  Quite a bit of 1 Corinthians was in my
    notes.  Then I had to consider why I used the term inspirational and
    just what that meant to me.  How do I determine what is inspirational
    and what is not inspirational.  It is an exciting journey and these are
    critical questions for me.
    
    Patricia

I consider the Bible to be authoritative.  At the same time I do not
consider it to be the supreme authority in my life.

As Marc H. had alluded to, Roman Catholics tend to see the Church as
the supreme authority.  Many Protestants see the Bible as the supreme
authority.  Personally, while I neither reject the authority of the church
nor of the Bible, I consider the Spirit of the living God to be the
supreme authority in my life.

Much of the Bible is to me a series of accounts and perceptions others have
had in their encounters with God.  It is very helpful and enriching to me
to know of these things, to know of the spiritual footsteps taken by my
predecessors.

I've made the analogy before, and admittedly it's not perfect, that the
Bible is like a roadmap.  It tells me where people have been before.  I
count on it to be accurate and dependable.  If there are questions about
destination(s) or if I'm feeling a little lost, I pull over and consult it.

I favor the Gospels over the rest of the Bible.  A personal preference.
They speak more to me than the other sections.

Shalom,
Richard

    I think that the powerful aspect to the Gospel's comes from the fact
    that here, you have Christ talking to you as a fellow human ( not that
    he was only human...rather has human aspects), and he gives you an
    answer to very common, universal problems.
    
    Nowhere else is the message from God so clear and pointed....
    
    Marc H.

    Well, it will be no surprise to any of you that I consider the Bible
    the authoritative Word of God unequivocably.  What I don't understand,
    I keep seeking to understand.  Where it looks like there is a
    difference, I'll keep looking to see if there is really a difference. 
    Basically I believe this...that too many people have God in a box.  Too
    many times we think of Jesus just as "our friend" and forget that He is
    Almighty God.  When we think of Him just as our friend, we start
    trifling with Him and disagreeing with Him like we do with our other
    friends.  I'm not saying that I never question.  But when I do first I
    have to think about my motives for questioning, are they pure or do I
    just not want to come under Christ's Lordship in that area of my life. 
    If my motives are right, I keep searching His Word for the answer and
    if I'm still baffled I seek out one of my spiritual leaders at church. 
    Also, since the Spirit helps us to interpret Scripture we need to be
    able to listen which means having a broken and contrite heart in order
    to hear.  Sometimes there is unconfessed sin blocking us from hearing
    what God has to tell us.  I also except that some things are not
    comprehendible to this finite mind and God has given me a peace able
    that because of my faith in Him and His integrity...I don't have to
    understand it all right now.  Example being the trinity.  I believe it. 
    I understand it to a certain degree, and I know that there is more to
    it that I won't understand till I'm with Him.
    
    Gotta go...
    
    Jill

    Hi Jill,
    
    Nice to hear you in hear again.
    
    Interestly, I agree with most of what you wrote.  There is some
    combination of the scriptures and the Spirit moving us that allows us
    to comprehend what God wants us to comprehend.
    
    Right now I am reading and attempting to comprehend Issiah and
    Jeremiah.  They are difficult particularly with the negative female
    imagery.  They picture Jerusalem as a whoring woman.  There are a whole
    lot of cultural biases and implications in that imagery. 
    
    I am inspired and relieved as I struggle with these Biblical texts by
    the story of Jacob wrestling with God.  In the image of God class that
    I took at Emmanuel, I got a clear message that it is OK to wrestle
    with God.  I learn from the encounter.
    
    It is not a simple process in reading Issiah and Jeremiah to understand
    what is authoritative and what is cultural bias.  What is it about this
    image of God created in these books that we can hold and carry and what
    is it that explains a difficult situation to a primitive people.
    
    Authority is the inspiration of wrestling the truth from these
    difficult historic passages.
    
    Patricia

Isaiah.

    Someday I may learn how to spell all the books of the Bible correctly.
    
    I do pretty well with Mark, Luke, and John!

    
    Thanks Patricia.  I don't have much time for notes anymore, but I do at
    least try to read some strings and occasionally comment.  Glad to see
    you are still here.
    
    I think you're right that we have the authority to wrestle with the
    Scriptures in order to understand them, but I think many times we
    forget who that authority is given by and that His authority is
    sovereign and ultimate. Just because we come to a different conclusion
    doesn't mean that truth is subjective or changing in some way.  Our
    understanding of it my change, but the truth stands as it always has
    and always will.
    
    I think the vivid depictions in the O.T. are purposeful and important. 
    I think God wanted us to see how ugly sin is in His sight.  However,
    when His ultimate plan was revealed we see that whores and all others
    regardless of how ugly their sin was were ones he sought to save.  I
    think the contrast is intentional to show us that all can come to God if
    they choose.  Does the Bible give sugar-coated views of men?  I don't
    think so - look at Saul at Stephen's stoning.  Not only did he give his
    approval, the words actually imply that he derived great pleasure from
    watching this.  I think of the creep in Schindler's list and I imagine
    that Saul's heart was like his. Yet we see the hearts of whores and
    basically nazis alike turned to Christ. It's a beautiful picture.  I
    don't think the imagery would be as potent if the contrast was weaken. 
    God intended to show us how He can change people from the inside out.
     
    One other word about Saul and things I'm working on in my life.  Here
    was a Pharisee of Pharisees who on Emmaus road met the God he had
    committed his whole life to studying and he asked "Who are you?" 
    Contrast this with Ananias in the passage immediately following in Acts
    9 who responds "Yes, Lord."  Studying God's Word obviously isn't
    enough.  We have to seek Him with our whole self.  Are we each willing
    to give up our biases, the beliefs and values we've come up with from
    our life experiences, and take up the cross of Christ.  It takes more
    than commitment, it takes discipline daily.  Jesus said that those who
    love Him, obey Him.  Are we really letting go of our will and living a
    life in accordance with His will? I ask this of myself as much as any
    of you.  II Corinthians 13:5 says "Examine yourselves to see whether
    you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ
    Jesus is in you - unless, of course, you fail the test?"  This
    examination is threefold.  Comparing our lives to His Word, the
    Indwelling of the Spirit, and having a changed life.  This isn't an
    easy task or life.  The N.T. repeatedly tells us to act with diligence
    to prove the Scriptures and to be striving to increase in the qualities
    of moral excellence (goodness), knowledge, self-control, perserverance,
    godliness, brotherly kindness, and love.  His Word is so crucial.  Many
    are deceived by emotional experiences and indeed there are other
    spirits that may fool people.  Many things can change your life...the
    key is are they changed to be in accordance with God's will?  You can
    only know God through Christ, then learning more about Him in His Word 
    and praying with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.  Otherwise it's all 
    just head knowledge - Saul had more of that than all of us combined 
    and it was worthless without his heart being changed.
    
    Hope I didn't get off-track...just thought I'd share a bit of what I've
    been studying and struggling with in my life.
    
    Jill