Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    It means that a man with 5 daughters welcomes you into his house when
    he chases all other teenage boys away.

    It means a man in his eighties tells you "Well, if you father doesn't
    show up you'll just take over." And you're only 16.

    It means that a friend of yours has a curfew - unless he's with you
    in which case he can go anywhere until any hour.

    It means that no matter where you go or what you do there is someone
    there to see and report back to your father.

    It means knowing that your behavior can have an impact on your fathers
    future job security.

    It means that everyone (or so it seems) know who you are.

    It means that people come to you, even at a young age, with Bible
    questions. And they expect you to know the answer.

    It means 14 years of perfect attendance pins for Sunday School.

    It means hearing how great your father is and how lucky you are to
    have him for a parent. Sometimes it also means wondering who they're
    talking about. :-)

    It means that when the phone rings, at any hour of the day or night,
    it better get answered. And the message better be taken and given
    correctly. Because it just may be a matter of life and death.

    It means having the key to the church gym hanging in the kitchen
    so you can play basketball any time you want.

    It means living up to very high expectations.

    It means serving God in a real way years before you really understand
    that that's what you are doing.

    			Alfred

    .1  Whoa, Alfred!  I guess I realized some of that before, but
    not all of it.
    
    Thanks.
    
    Richard

    Thanks Alfred,
    
    It would serve all church members to read that in their church bulletin
    to remind them that pk's are just like their own kids.
    
    Nancy

    I think Alfred about summed it up.

    But, my experience is much more negative.  

    I couldn't "compete" with God for my Dad's attention.  So I suppose I
    competed with Dad for God's attention.  

    It  was a weird trip.

    Ruth

    I've had some good deal of dealings with PKs over the years. Besides
    my father I also have an uncle who is a preacher. Right now I also
    have two ordained cousins who also have children. I've been friendly
    with a lot of PKs over the years. There isn't one universal PK
    experience. A lot depends on the type of church and the type of
    preacher your father is. I know that there are women preachers but
    I've never know any of their kids. I suspect that their experience is
    in some way different because of the differing roles of parents.

    Competing with God and/or His church for a fathers attention is a
    common problem. In some ways it was worse in my house because my father
    through himself into his work after my mother died. A Preacher's job
    can take a lot of time. Some PKs do resent God for this. I was surprised
    to find, as an adult, that some Preachers regularly take a day off
    every week. My father didn't. He did take two weeks off to serve his
    Naval Reserve duty and we did have some vacation time. But nothing like
    a regular day that you knew he was "off." He was generally there for
    special events in our lives though. Basketball games, etc. And of
    course many of the big events were church related which made it easier
    for him to make it. :-)

    Rebelling against ones father appears to be fairly common. Though I
    have little first hand experience with this situation. One of my
    brothers did act up a bit. OK, maybe more than a bit. But I believe it
    was more the result of not having a mother; he was 4 when she died. And
    rebellion is common in all types of families. It just tends to get a
    bit more attention in Preacher's families. Everything that happens in
    a Preacher's family gets more attention. It is quite a bit like being
    a politicians child. I've known a few of those as well.

    It's interesting that many people expect PKs to become preachers
    themselves. I know of few other jobs where this sort of expectation
    remains in the US. With the children of an orthodox Rabbi this remains
    a reasonable expectation but not so with Christian clergy. Though some
    do it's far from automatic. We see first hand what our parents go
    though. The appreciation for what they do is not really up to the work
    involved. Being a preacher is a calling and I firmly believe that
    people should avoid it unless God is really leading them to it. Note
    also that I believe that being a Preacher's wife is a calling as well.

    I remember some things my mother went through. If she did too much she
    was meddling and butting in. If she did too little she wasn't pulling 
    her weight. And of course the view of too much and too little depended
    on the particular congregation member and their particular bias. There 
    is often considerable overlap in the two views. So you can't really
    win.

    I also believe that being a PK, like so much in life, is dependent on
    what you put into it. Your own character and outlook are important. I
    learned a very strong sense of duty and an obligation to serve from the
    experience. So did a couple of my cousins. Others don't seem to pick
    this up any more or less than anybody elses kids.

    There are plus sides and down sides. The plus sides often include
    access to church resources. The piano that Ruth mentioned. The gym
    I talked about. There was the year we hosted my fathers whole family
    in the church fellowship hall. My uncle did this once or twice too.
    As the family got big with kids getting married and having kids this
    was a big help. Extra room. Extra stoves and ovens. It all made things
    easier. 

    There was also the plus of meeting special people from time to time.
    My father knew and worked with a lot of elected officials. I met
    several mayor's of New York. Bobby Kennedy (I wasn't impressed).
    Congressmen, judges, etc. I regularly had late dinners with the
    Democratic leaders of the NY legislature (both houses). It was a
    wonderful learning experience. One I don't think I would have gotten
    otherwise.

    The down side included everyone having very high expectations of your
    behavior and looking for flaws. Frankly I found being the "perfect"
    child pretty easy and a lot less stressful then acting up. Others
    react to it differently and feel stress intensely. One was constantly
    "on." And you can't go to your pastor when you are having trouble
    with your parents either. I had peers who came to my father about
    parent problems. Even some kids of other preachers. I never developed
    any relationships with other preachers to do this with. It would have
    helped at times.

    My father tells me that the church, Methodist, has realized over the
    years that ministers and their families often do need ministering to
    themselves. So I am hopeful that some things are getting easier as 
    time goes on. 

    			Alfred

    RE: .5
    
    Thanks Alfred......interesting reading.
    
    Marc H.

    Alfred!

    That's it!  I've found my support group..."Adult children of
    Preachers."

    Seriously, you put words to a lot of my childhood memories.  The
    hardest part of being a PK is the isolation.  I really felt alone.  I
    couldn't talk about my problems with friends because it might make my
    Dad look bad, or it might betray a confidence (we learned to shut our
    little mouths at an early age, eh?).

    And I never felt like I could go talk to any of the adults in my
    church, because they might talk to my Dad about it.

    And all of the special attention bothered me.  Did I get the lead part
    in the Christmas play when I was 10 because of my acting ability?  I'll
    never know...

    I didn't mind all the weddings though.  It was my part-time high school
    job, playing piano for weddings...easy gig.

    Alfred, did you consciously (or subconsciously) compete with your Dad?

    I did.  I prayed more, studied harder, witnessed more often, logged in
    more road miles in the ministry, was more fervent and more zealous than
    the old man.

    I didn't know that I was competing until Richard posted this note and
    then it all became clear to me (Thanks Richard...this might lead to
    some excellent healing of my relationship with my Dad).

    Hmmm.

    Ruth

    
    >Seriously, you put words to a lot of my childhood memories.  The
    >hardest part of being a PK is the isolation.  I really felt alone.  I
    >couldn't talk about my problems with friends because it might make my
    >Dad look bad, or it might betray a confidence (we learned to shut our
    >little mouths at an early age, eh?).

    Yes, discretion was learned early. I think, reading your note, that I
    was particularly lucky to have cousins who are PKs. We provided a sort
    of support group for each other. We could talk and share and work
    things out together. We still do talk about what it meant and means to
    grow up PK.

    >    Alfred, did you consciously (or subconsciously) compete with your Dad?

    Nope. I was and in some ways still am in awe of my father. There was no
    way I thought I could out do him. So it never occurred to compete with
    him. But I've known others who did. One college friend finally realized
    in college that God was not calling him to the ministry and that he
    didn't have to do it just because his father did. It was a real realize
    for him.

    			Alfred

    RE: .7 Ruth,
    
    			ACOP????  :-)   Now there is a 12 step program I
    jes gotta see! ;-)
    
    
    Dave

For most of my childhood that I can remember, I wasn't so much a preacher's
kid as a missionary's kid.  Living in a foreign country for six years gave
me a different set of experiences than if my parents had been ministers in
the U.S. for those six years.

Some of Alfred's observations in .1 matched my own experiences and some
did not.

>    It means a man in his eighties tells you "Well, if you father doesn't
>    show up you'll just take over." And you're only 16.

I do remember that when I was younger I felt sure that I'd grow up to be a
missionary, just like my father.  (It didn't quite turn out that way...)

>    It means that a friend of yours has a curfew - unless he's with you
>    in which case he can go anywhere until any hour.

In my case I had a pretty strict curfew as long as I was living with my
parents (i.e. until I turned 16).  I don't remember going out much at
night, although I wouldn't blame that completely on my parents since I
tend to be fairly solitary type of person.

>    It means knowing that your behavior can have an impact on your fathers
>    future job security.

I never really felt that, although maybe I was just na�ve.  But also since
my parents were employed by the Board of Global Ministries rather than by
a local church maybe there was less reason for worry about my parents
losing their jobs because of my being involved in some kind of scandal.

I did have a sense of responsibility in representing the United States
overseas.  I figured that if I did something weird my friends would think
that all Americans were like that!

>    It means that everyone (or so it seems) know who you are.

Yes, but partly because my accent (American in Rhodesia, Rhodesian in the
U.S.) gave me away.

>    It means 14 years of perfect attendance pins for Sunday School.

Yes, church and Sunday school attendance was *not* optional.  This caused
some friction later when I was going to college and came home for
weekends...

>    It means that when the phone rings, at any hour of the day or night,
>    it better get answered. And the message better be taken and given
>    correctly. Because it just may be a matter of life and death.

I don't remember any life or death phone calls, but my parents were
members of the Samaritans suicide-prevention group.

>    It means having the key to the church gym hanging in the kitchen
>    so you can play basketball any time you want.

In our case (I'm thinking of the times when I came home from college) we
had the run of the church basement and used to play ping pong for hours at
a time - almost as if we owned the place!

>    It means serving God in a real way years before you really understand
>    that that's what you are doing.

When we first went to Africa when I was nine my parents really played up
the "you're missionaries too" theme, and at times I tried my best to fill
that role.

Something else not in Alfred's note: as Missionary Kids, my brothers and
sister and I were expected to entertain the church!  We had to get up in
front of the whole congregation (when we were back in the U.S.) and sing
African songs.  Imagine my embarrassment - especially at the "Oh, aren't
they so *cute*" comments.

And in Africa the first time we were there we had to attend church
services where everyone spoke the native African language,  Shona!  The
hymns were OK, but those African preachers gave sermons that were ninety
minutes long - and longer!  I'm not making this up - some church services
lasted for three hours, and I hardly understood a word!  (When we went
back the second time we kids were allowed to go to a "European" church.)

But really, I have fond memories of my life as a PK/MK.  The only real
problems came later, when the secular world view I learned in college (and
to some extent developed on my own in my later teen years) clashed with my
parents' religious values.  I *think* we've come to an understanding about
this - but I get the sense that it's a topic that's best avoided when I'm
home with my parents.

				-- Bob

    Bob, did you learn that little rhyme some of my MK friends taught me:

    "Where He leads me I will follow, what He feeds me I will swallow."

    			Alfred

Re: .11 Alfred

No, I don't remember that particular ditty.  Actually the food was pretty
good for us in Rhodesia compared with what MK's probably had to eat in
some other countries.  We didn't think much of Rhodesian hamburgers or
milk shakes, but apparently beef was cheaper than in the U.S. and there
was all kinds of fruit.

The main local African dish was sadza, which was a sort of heavy corn meal
mush with spinach-like vegetables, curry and meat.  We actually considered
it a treat since we didn't have it very often.

My mother confessed that when she was in Rhodesia she had a craving for
Fruit Loops cereal.  There wasn't a lot of American brand name food
available, especially since Rhodesia was subject to U.N. sanctions.

				-- Bob

    >>re .10 "hymns were OK, but those African preachers gave sermons that
    >>were ninety minutes long - and longer!  I'm not making this up - some
    >>church services lasted for three hours, and I hardly understood a word! 


    I can top this one!  In the Eastern Appalachian churches, preachers
    routinely went for 1-2 hours and when one was finished, another would
    take his place, tag-team preaching style. Many Sundays, I'd go to
    Sunday school at 9:00 a.m., church at 10:00, get out of church at 2:00
    p.m., and go back at 7:00 - 9:30 for evening service.
    
    Then, about once a month, they'd have an *all day* service...

    When I was a small child, it was always my intent to wriggle free of my
    mother and slip out the back door as soon as I could to go catch frogs
    in the local creek.

    Because, I don't know if any of you are familiar with the delivery of
    Appalachian fundamentalist ministers, but really, I couldn't understand
    a word they were saying either.

    Ruth