Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    Re: .0
    
    I have pretty much the same agenda....just replace Unitarian with
    Congregational....
    :)
    :)
    :)
    
    
    
    Marc H.

    Also see topic 482, "Agendas in CHRISTIAN-PERSPECTIVE"
    
    Richard

I note here because:

	o  I believe that it's worthwhile.

	o  I believe that this conference ultimately brings glory to God.

	o  I can share and compare my outlook with others.

	o  C-P is a place I can truly learn, and have learned from others.

	o  There are fewer restrictions and greater trust placed in the
	   participants.  I've never believed that the enforcement of
	   a credo successfully accomplishes what it is intended to do.

	o  I find this conference to be a source of inspiration and hope.

Peace,
Richard

    Marc
    
    I find it real interesting that your agenda is the same as mine but
    from a Congregtional rather than a Unitarian perspective.  The reason I
    include my denominational affilliation is because I find my church to
    be a intellectual safe haven which has no doctrine and encourages me to
    develop my own belief structure.  In my church no one will ever
    criticize me for my beliefs.  It is difficult to step out of that
    safe environment and be open about my beliefs in an arena where I may
    be criticized and even condemned for my beliefs.  I have had to ask
    myself why I would chooose to note in such an arena.  Your note somehow 
    helps me to remember that there are many people of faith in a wide
    range of different denominations who value intellectual and spiritual
    freedom.  One of the important lessons I have learned through my
    experience of noting here is that it is a question of how strong my
    faith is to be able to believe something that others do not or to
    disbelieve something that others believe and be comfortable with my own
    belief.  So my faith has become stronger through the process of noting
    here.   Now that is quite a discovery.
    
    Patricia
    

    There's another aspect Congregational (UCC) and UU's share in common.
    Each local church maintains a significant measure of autonomy,
    especially in its decision making and employing clergy.
    
    Peace,
    Richard
    

    RE: .4 and .5
    
    Good points.....
    
    Marc H.

 Re .5  As does the independant Baptist Church I attend.





Jim

     >As does the independant Baptist Church I attend.
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^
    Well, I should imagine it would, Jim. :-)
    

       :-)

    re: .5
    
    It's a blessing and a burden!
    
    	Shalom,
    
    	Ron
    

    I have been in here only about once since July 1993, but here at 5 a.m. 
    waiting for a book to build, I find this note interesting and will chance a
    reply and wonder if anyone is still reading.
    
    I think it is best to find out for yourself what you believe,
    whether it is by reading the Bible or the Indian, Chinese, or
    Tibetan books of wisdom, or even good fiction. All religions 
    in my mind say the same thing, exactly what Jesus said. (All
    kinds of people lead one to the spirit also, I think.)
    
    The Chinese book of wisdom says (I'm paraphrasing) to give out
    light (all that is good), a human being needs Something to which
    it clings.
    
    That means the same thing to me as "Thou shalt love the Lord, Thy
    God, with thy whole soul and thy whole mind, and thou shalt love thy
    neighbor as thyself." Jesus said this in numerous beautiful, poetic
    ways. 
    
    Henry James said, there are three things in the world that 
    are important: The first is to be kind. The second is to be kind. 
    And the third is to be kind. If you practice this, however imperfectly, 
    and if you seek, I think you will find the one God. (This is not my
    original idea, but I believe from my own experience that it works.
    Also, I am not saying "I have found God and you haven't".)
    And I suspect that God will not mind what denomination you are. 
    Personally I believe the Great Spirit is is too full of love and fun
    to be interested in denominational details. 
    
    Finally, the Indian book of wisdom (at 5 a.m. I won't attempt to
    spell the first name of the Gita) says we should not interfere
    with religions we consider more primitive than ours. That any
    religion is better than no religion, because (my words) they
    all lead Home.
    
    Hugs to everyone! (The things that shy Irish people write in public
    notes files in the middle of the night!)
    
    Eileen
    
    Born Catholic, currently Tibetan Buddhist and Unitarian Universalist,
    and thinking of becoming a Quaker :-)
    
    P.S. If you are a friend of Ro Flaherty Reinke, it is my suggestion,
    not Ro's, that you ought to give her a call.

    Eileen,
    
    Thanks for your reply.  It sounds great to me.
    
    
    Patricia

    RE: .11

    Hi Eileen,

    You're right.  I wasn't here reading at 5:30 this morning.  
    But even at that time I was in agreement.  :-)

    It sounds so simple.  Why isn't it?  Or is it *too* simple?

    Go easy on the coffee  :-)

    Tom

  >All religions  in my mind say the same thing, exactly what 
  >Jesus said.

Jesus was/is different from all the others.  He said many of
the things that they said.  But his message (and the message
of his followers) is based on a *entirely* different basis -
accepting the sacrifice of Jesus Himself through faith to
be made right with God.  *This* is the good news - the gospel.

You are quite right to think that every religion expounds on the
virtue of loving one another and all those good things.  But
the message of Jesus was built on an entirely different foundation
(although the desired love, etc. was the same).  Have you not
seen this in the Scriptures?  Have you not heard this from your
upbringing?  Is this not evident in this notesfile?  Please
don't diminish who Jesus is or what He has done by simply saying
that He was similar (better, perhaps, but similar) to those
before Him.  He was *entirely different* in His message (and
sacrifice!) of how to get right with God.

Collis

    Thanks for all your replies. Actually, Patricia, it was your notes
    that motivated me to write in the first place. I'm not a prolific
    writer. What you said most recently about people doing good to prove 
    to themselves their own worth is very interesting. I expect to be mulling 
    that over for a long time. 
    
    By the way, excuse the obvious haste in my original note, the dubious 
    grammar etc, although I'm glad the basic message still got across.  
    
    When I said I hoped people were still reading, I meant
    the file as a whole. (The two "here"s don't refer to the same thing
    as they appear to.) As I hadn't been in here in so long, I wondered
    if the file would still be active. And I'm glad it is!
    
    I first got interested in different religions in Catholic high school 
    and in college. A high school teacher, a nun, assigned us to interview
    a minister from another church. A college teacher, a former Catholic nun, 
    and daily church attender, assigned us to pick any philosopher we liked 
    and compare his principles with those of Nicholas Berdyaev, a Russian 
    Catholic mystic, whose book Slavery and Freedom was the basic text for 
    her course. I picked Nietzche, because I thought what she said couldn't
    be true. But she turned out to be right. A lot of what Nietzche said
    turned out to be similar to what Berdyaev said. I had the wrong idea
    completely about Nietzsche.  Somehow that made me question my own
    ideas about things, and also generally accepted ideas about things,
    because my ideas about Nietzche were based on what I had heard. She
    was a very special person and meant a lot to me. She was a spiritual
    teacher in the real sense of the word. I'm still learning how right
    she was about so many things. Sometime I will write a note about
    things I learned from her. 
    
    Eileen
    
    
    
    

    Eileen,
    
    I look forward to learning more about what you learned from that very
    special teacher.  I am honored that my note inspired you to add your
    own notes.
    
                                Patricia

    Here's another note written when if I knew what is good for me
    I would be sleeping. So I ask you to forgive the bad writing ahead of
    time.
    
    Helen Manock taught a a 2-credit class called "Values of College Life"
    in the School of Nursing at Boston College in the 1970s. Those two credits
    are worth more to me than all the other credits combined. The problem
    is that I can't do her justice in a notes file. It takes time to write
    and unfortunately I just don't have enough of it. Also I'm sure some people
    will not understand. But she would get such a kick out of knowing I
    was writing about her class in a Digital notes file. I'm sure she
    has passed away somewhow. I've been thinking of her a lot lately,
    and it has happened before that I have begun to think a lot about someone
    from the past only to find out that they have recently died.
    
    She was in her sixties when I was nineteen or twenty, so she would be
    eighty or more if she is still alive. I kept in touch with her on and
    off after leaving Boston College. She took a year off and went to
    live in Australia during my senior year. The next year I was living
    in Ireland, so I got out of touch with her. Then after coming back
    I bumped into her in downtown Boston after not having seen her for
    about three years. That was the second time I met her by accident 
    at a time when I really needed her.
    
    This last time was just before she moved to Australia permanently with 
    the much younger Jewish man that this former Catholic nun married.
    
    The first thing she taught us was a recitation that she referred to as
    a prayer. We had to say it at the beginning and end of every class. Some 
    people will be outraged by this, but I can only say (to those who are 
    still reading and hoping I will get to the point :-) ) it's not what you 
    think. The recitation was:
    
    I was born to be happy, and whatever it costs me, I will be happy.
    
    The very first homework assigment she gave us Nursing School freshman 
    that September of 1969 was to tell 5 boys that we thought they were
    good looking. Do you remember what Freshman year was like? 
    Can you imagine it? All these girls from Catholic high schools,
    in a "coeducational" school for the first time. Can you hear the 
    screaming when she even tells us what the assignment is? 
    Every other assignment was easy after that.
    
    
    Next installment next time I don't feel like sleeping, or if I ever
    have a vacation, or if the Spirit moves me.
    
    Eileen
    
    
    
    
    

    Love God, Love your neighbor.

    The more I say it, the more I read it, the more I see it
    ignored, the more I value it.

    Nothing else matters NEARLY as much.

    Tom

    Tom,
    
    re: 720.18
    
    Amen,
    
    Patricia

In article <720.18-931112-111036@valuing_diffs.christian-perspective>, [email protected] (DOS with Honor!) writes:
|>Title: Agendas
|>Reply Title: my agenda
|>
|>    Love God, Love your neighbor.
|>
|>    The more I say it, the more I read it, the more I see it
|>    ignored, the more I value it.
|>
|>    Nothing else matters NEARLY as much.
|>
|>    Tom
|>


Agreed.  The problem is that even those who believe that the above is
important disagree greatly about what the word "love" means.  Some believe
that it means be "nice", some means that it can sometimes mean being
"tough", some think it should be interpreted in the light of the God revealed
in the OT and NT, others think it should be interpreted in light of what
parts of the OT and NT they like.  Come to think of it, there are parts
in the OT and NT that cause everyone trouble. 8-)  One side accepts the
"trouble" and tries to deal with it, and for another side the "trouble"
is irrelevant.  For everyone who disagrees with stuff Paul wrote I'm sure
there are plenty who disagree with the Sermon on the Mount.

I would wager that the viewpoints of what "Love God, Love your neighbor" means
according to the folks in C-P would range all the way across the spectrum. 8-)

I think we can agree, for the most part (except for a couple of us 8-) ), that
we should try to Love God and Love our neighbors.


-- 
---
Paul		[email protected]
Gordon		[email protected]
Loptson		databs::ferwerda
Ferwerda	Tel (603) 884 1317



			
[posted by Notes-News gateway]

    No.  Love has nothing to do with what you think or how you
    interpret anything, although they can get in the way of Love.

    Ultimately, Love is a state of being.

    *Be* in Love with God.  There is nothing greater.

    Love is *simple*.  Can we even agree on that?
    
    Love takes us beyond the petty little differences that tear us
    apart and make us aware that someone, somewhere is sinning.  Love
    causes us to *transcend* who's right and wrong.  It pulls us out
    of this existance and puts us into the presence of God.  That's
    what Christianity is all about.  That's what Hinduism is all about.
    That's what God is all about.  

    Don't nothing else matter.

    Love God... and the easiest way to start is by loving your neighbor
    *FIRST*.  Go beyond our petty disagreements and Love our enemies.
    They show us that we're not loving and help us come back into focus.
    They are one of our greatest gifts from God because they can help
    bring us back to God.  They can make me type this tirade so I can
    become aware of my shortcomings.

    Love can be passionate but most of all it is humble.  I haven't found
    anything that soils Love faster than arrogance.  And my enemies show me
    my arrogance.  There is such genius in God.  I can never fool Him.

    Is my interpretation of the Bible so different from yours that
    we can't speak of the same Love?

    Tom

    Love is not necessarily a state of being... sorta like rich or poor.
    
    Love is *giving*.  And there are many different types of love.  But the
    only love that satisfies is the UNCONDITIONAL love of God. That says
    inspite of our sinful nature [which is our state of being], God still
    sent his Son to die for our sins... because of His Love.
    
    Nancy

    Tom,
    
    I like your rambling.  It inspires me.  My theology too is based on
    Loving oneself, loving one's neighbor, and loving God.  that is my
    trinity.  There cannot be genuine love in any of those dimmensions
    without the other two.
    
    
    Patricia