Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    Here are some quotes from the Q'uran:
    
    "Abraham was not a Jew, nor was he a Christian.  He was a man of pure
    worship and a Muslim."  (Surah 3:67)

    "Believers!  Do not take Jews and Christians for friends--they are
    friends of themselves and any one of you who allies yourself with them
    becomes one of them.  God does not guide people who are committing
    evil." (Surah 5:51)

    "Truly they have lied against the truth who say: 'God, He is the
    Messiah, son of Mary.' Say: 'Who can arrogate sovereignty from God in
    anything? If God but wills it His power could annihilate the Messiah
    and his mother and every one else in the world.  To God belongs the
    sovereignty of the heavens and of the earth and all that is within them
    and He is omnipotent over all.'" (Surah: 5:17)
    

    I really no nothing about islam. I'm ready to learn, though.
    
    Marc H.

    The Koran, the canon of Islam, does contain a brief account of Jesus
    of Nazareth.  It claims Jesus was born of a virgin.  And it claims
    that Jesus was a prophet who was crucified.
    
    Peace,
    Richard
    

    Re:  659.1
    
    "Abraham was not a Jew nor a Christian.  He was a Man of pure worship
    and a Muslim." (Surah 3:67)
    
    Abraham was neither a Jew, Christian, nor Muslim.  Abraham's decendants
    were Jews and Muslims.  The Jews are decendants through the lineage of
    Abraham, Issac, Joseph and Jacob (God called Jacob Isreal).  I have not
    read anything proofing my next sentence...the Muslims are decendants
    through the lineage of Abraham, Ishmael, Esau, and etc.
    
    Now for the Christians.  Jesus, the Christ is a decendant of
    Abraham...remember Ruth, Obed, Jesse, King David, Solomon and etc. 
    Jesus, the Christ is in part the fulfillment of the covenant God made
    with Abraham.  Christians lay inheritance claim to Abraham through
    Jesus, the Christ and the expression of faith that Jesus, the Christ is
    the Son of God. Please read The Bible, Romans 4th chapter, and Hebrews
    11th chapter.
    
    I would like to know more about the Muslim faith from Abraham to
    present day.  Will someone suggest a booklist.
    
    Viki Blocker

    Abraham is considered to be a Jew because the covenant was made with
    him.
    
    If you believe in making distinctions between Jew, Judaic, Hebrew,
    Israelite, etc. then proceed.  The usual form of denial of Abraham as
    Jewish is simpler, it is to deny that Abraham is a historical person.
    
    As for Islam, the Islamic Propagation Center is just a block away from
    me.  The approximate address is 58th Street and 37th Avenue in Woodside
    (area code 718)

    Re: .4
    
    Arabs might be considered descendants of Ishmael, but Muslims need not
    be Arabs, and Arabs need not be Muslims, so I don't think it would be
    correct to say that Muslims are descendants are Ishmael.  Islam, like
    Christianity, claims to be a universal religion.
    
    My understanding is that Moslems consider Abraham to have been a Moslem
    because they believe he was a true prophet of God, and they believe
    that all true prophets of God (Jesus, Mohammed, etc.) were Moslems.
    
    -- Mike

Re: .4 Viki

>    The Jews are decendants through the lineage of
>    Abraham, Issac, Joseph and Jacob (God called Jacob Isreal).

Abraham was the father of Isaac and Isaac was the father of Jacob (a.k.a
Israel).  Jacob was the father of Joseph, Judah and their ten brothers.
Joseph was the father of Manasseh and Ephraim.  Mannaseh, Ephraim and Judah
were three of the twelve tribes of Israel.  Mannaseh and Ephraim became
part of the northern kingdom of Israel, which was conquered by Assyria in
722 B.C.  The tribe of Judah was the main part of the southern kingdom of
Judah, which was conquered by Babylonia in 587 B.C.

Now strictly speaking "Jews" refers to the former inhabitants of Judah.
When Judah was conquered by Babylonia and large numbers of its inhabitants
were exiled to Babylon, they kept their separate identity and formed a
Jewish community in exile.  Within a generation they were able to return
to Judah, after Persia conquered Babylonia.  This is unlike the case of
the people of the northern kingdom of Israel (the ten lost tribes), who were
never able to return to their homeland and presumbly were assimilated into
Assyria.

Probably a certain number of people from Israel, including the tribes of
Mannaseh and Ephraim, were able to flee to Judah when Israel was conquered
by Assyria, and some of the Jews living today are descended from these
people.  For the most part, though, it's more correct to say that the Jews
are descended through the lineage of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Judah.

				-- Bob

Re: .7 (me)

>For the most part, though, it's more correct to say that the Jews
>are descended through the lineage of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Judah.

I probably overemphasized the Judah part in my previous note; really any
"descendant" of Jacob who was culturally Jewish would be considered a Jew
today.  The main point of my note was that not all Jews are descended
(according to the Bible) from Joseph.

				-- Bob

    
    
      Yesterday I attended a film which was made at the U.T. at AUSTIN.
    The speaker was Dr. Moray, who has spent the past ten years or so
    studying Islam. The subject of this lecture was the reasons he 
    could not become a Muslum.
       	He started with the fact that Mohammed was born of pagen parents
    and of natural birth. Next he explained that Allah is no where at all
    to be found in the Bible, in fact Allah was one of many Gods, though
    he was one of the higher ones. He was the moon God and was married
    to Allat whom I think was the sun God. They had three daughters
    who were intermediaries so to speak.
        If anyone is interested I can continue tommorow, sorry about the
    spelling but it's 4:00 am. and I am tired. Well back to work.
    

>Next he explained that Allah is no where at all to be found in the Bible,

Weird.  When the Bible is translated into Arabic, "Allah" is the word used
for "God".  And this was the case for hundreds of years before Mohammed got
onto the scene.

/john

    >> He started with the fact that Mohammed was born of pagen parents and
    >> of natural birth.
    
    Mohammed is the _prophet_ of Allah.  There is no claim made by Islam
    that Mohammed was supernaturally conceived or born.
    
    There is no claim in Islam that Allah was "one of many Gods".
    
    These are all straw men and the audiences of Dr. Moray are not served
    if the only point of the film is to knock these claims down.
                                                                

    >There is no claim in Islam that Allah was "one of many Gods".
    
    That is absolutely correct; Islam was a radically monotheistic religion
    that arose in reaction to the polytheism of Mohammed's time.  However,
    without having heard Moray speak myself, I suspect that his comments
    had to do not with Islam per se, but with the prevailing Arab
    polytheism that Mohammed grew up in.  In that polytheistic religion, if
    I am not mistaken, Allah was the name of the chief god in the pantheon,
    and Mohammed attacked this polytheism by claiming that Allah was the
    one and only God.  Presumably this is what Moray was alluding to in his
    comment that Allah was born of pagan parents; he was presumably
    pointing out that Islam was a uniquely Arab religion that arose in
    response to Arab paganism.
    
    -- Mike

    Re: .9
    
    >    If anyone is interested I can continue tommorow, sorry about the
    >spelling but it's 4:00 am. and I am tired. Well back to work.
    
    I, for one, am interested, and would love to hear more information from
    you about the conference (if you can manage to ignore the knee-jerk
    hostile responses.)
    
    -- Mike

        
    
        I do not claim to know a great deal or even a little about the
    Islamic faith. However I have 3 or 4 books that were refered to me
    and will pass along the authors and titles on Tuesday. Those whom
    have the desire to educate themselves can and will. I feel then 
    perhaps a sound discourse can be had by all. As far as the hostile
    responses, well if everyone allowed these to intimidate them were
    would we be today? Such is life.
        I have spoken to a friend who introduced me to the lecture and
    we have arranged to come up with a synopsis of the lecture next week.
    The third part will be held next Wednesday. By the way, the film is
    being shown to a group of Christians who meet once a week to become
    informed on the practices of other religions and cults. The purpose
    is to have a working knowledge of them so they can go out and witness
    to them on there own terms.
    
         Regards,
        
         John

    
    Those interested in a discussion on Islam and the Quran, check out 
    note 976 in the VAXWRK::INDIA conference.
    
    Cindy

Note 892.25 MORALES_NA

	I'm going to politely decline your invitation.

	By the way, there are Moslems who really do claim most Christian
doctrine is polytheistic.  And try as you might to explain the trinity,
they won't be convinced of the error of their original perception.

Shalom,
Richard

    Thanks for letting me know Richard.  No problem. 
    
    Let me ask a question of anyone else who'd like to gander at it..
    
    As there are perversions of Christianity, there must be perversions of
    Eastern Religions as well...  this may be the case here. I won't deny
    it.
    
    What is salvation to Buddhists, Islamics, etc., whatever particular
    belief system you may be familiar with besides Christianity?
    
    
    

                 
    Nancy,
    
    I, too, must decline, mostly for lack of time, but also since we've
    been over this so many times, and nothing seems to really change.
    
    Yes, there are indeed perversions, misinterpretations, and 
    misunderstandings of all the major religions, and what you refer to 
    as 'new age' too.  Even by the very people who practice them.
    
    Very briefly, regarding 'salvation', obviously 'accepting Christ as 
    one's Savior' is not part of salvation in the other religions, so if 
    you're looking for that, then you won't find it. 
    
    In Hinduism, there are those Hindus who follow a Personal God, similar
    to Christ (though it is Krishna, Ram, Shiva, etc.), and the concept of
    following them is the same - they will lead to eternal life.  Also in
    Hinduism, though, is the concept of Advaita, or nondualism which is
    about a Nonpersonal God.  This is what I tend to follow, since I have
    had the nondual experience myself of experiencing all that exists as
    God in manifest and unmanifest.  In this context, then, the concept of
    salvation as you know it is meaningless.  So there is really no easy
    answer for "What all Hindus believe is salvation."  In fact, you'd
    probably get a different answer each time you asked.  That's also the
    beauty of Hinduism in that you can be where you're at in your spiritual
    walk and still be a Hindu anyway.  It's confusing to the non-Hindu at
    times though.
    
    Can't speak specifically on Islam or Buddhism.
    
    Cindy

    Cindy,
    
    I guess you have been over it many times, I have not.  But I do
    understand the sensitivity to time and effort involved for what appears
    to be little or no positive consequences.  Thanks for the brief answer.
    
    I guess you are right based on my belief system, what you say exists in
    the way of salvation for Hindus is a path to an eternal afterlife
    without Jehovah.  This saddens me.

    
    Nancy,
    
    >Hindus...a path to eternal afterlife without Jehovah.
    
    Who said that, and how did you come to that conclusion?
    
    Are Jehovah and God two separate beings in your belief system?
    
    Cindy

    We're quickly departing Islam.  I suggest moving the discussion
    of Hinduism back to topic 398.
    
    Richard
    

    My understanding [and please correct as I know you will if I'm
    wrong], is the God, Jehovah of the Bible [one and the same] is
    recognized, but not as *only* supreme God.

In Islam, the God of the Bible is the one and only Supreme God.  "Allah"
means God in Arabic whether you're an Arab Christian or an Arab Moslem.

In Islam, Jesus Christ is the second greatest prophet (after Mohammed),
miraculously born of the Virgin Mary, miraculously saved from death on
the cross, and ascended into heaven at the Mosque of the Ascension on
the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem.  Pay a shekel to go in and pray
at His footprint in the rock from which He is believed to have ascended.

In Islam, as in Christianity, salvation is belief in and submission to
the Word of God.  "Islam" is Arabic for "submission."

The primary point of departure between Islam and Christianity concerns
the person and nature of Jesus.  The Koran speaks against Trinitarian
Christianity with the words "Jesus never told his followers to call him
God."  Islam appears to share this problem about the nature of Our Lord
with Arianism and the Jehovah's Witnesses.

/john

    "I and my father are one!"

re Note 659.24 by JULIET::MORALES_NA:

>     "I and my father are one!"
  
        If this statement is to be taken literally, then it means
        "one in purpose" or "act in concert".

        It cannot literally mean "we are the same entity" unless one
        can accept all the implications of that, e.g., "I am my
        father."

        Bob

    Ahhh... The mobius twist of theology! 
    
    E

    Philippians 2:6  Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery
    to be equal with God:

    1.  I am in union with Christ.  Am I not also in union, then, with God?
    
    2.  Has this a connection with Christianity and Islam?  Or am I just
    being anal-retentive about staying on topic again?
    
    Richard
    
    PS The Philippians quote in .27 are believed to be words to an early
    hymn.
    

    re:  .27  Nancy
                  
   >Philippians 2:6  Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery
   >to be equal with God:

   This verse you paraphrased from the KJV is not a very accurate translation. 
   Many other translations word it to the effect that Jesus would not con-
   sider equality with God something to be grasped.  But the thing that
   really sticks out is that it doesn't fit the context of the surrounding
   verses when it's worded like it is in the KJV.  Look at verses 3 & 4; 
   Paul is talking about a mental attitude of humility.  Then in verse 5 he
   says to keep the same kind of mental attitde (the one he was just talking
   about) that was also the mental attitude of Jesus.  Was it lowliness of
   mind for Jesus to consider himself equal to God?  No, for Jesus himself
   said that his Father is greater than he is (John 14:28).  If Paul made a
   statement like the one you wrote above, he would be contradicting his own
   words at 1 Cor. 15:27, where he showed that Jesus has always been in
   subjection to God.  The wording of Phil. 2:6 in the KJV is just an example
   of how the KJV witers tried bending Scriptures to support the trinity
   doctrine.


   Steve

    The other versions are wrong.. period.  Which is why I use only the
    KJV. :-)
    
    

    RE: .30
    
    What do you base this on?
    
    Marc H.

    .31  Faith.
    
    Richard
    

    Wow Richard speaks for me now.
    
    I'd prefer to answer my own questions.
    
    
    
    Faith. :-)

    Re: .33
    
    Would like to explore this more...is there a "correct " Bible note?
    
    Marc H.

    .34  There's a bunch, starting about topic 18.
    
    Just type this at the notes prompt:
    
    DIR/TIT=BIBLE<CR>
    
    It'll look up all topics that have the word Bible in it.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

Not sure this is the right place but I wanted to write a
note on why Islam rejects the trinity. The following
note in another string prompted it.

note 988.43 FRETZ::HEISER "Grace changes everything" 

    >At least Islam worships our God, the God of Abraham, YHWH.
    
    ...which is Jesus Christ (see John 8:58 among others) who Islam rejects
    as God.

Islam rejects the trinity, for the Quran explicitely tells
them not to say trinity for God is one God (Surah 4:171 AYA).

The principal teaching of Islam, known as the shahadah (or
confession of faith) which every Muslim knows can be
translated in English as "No god but Allah; Muhammad is the 
messenger of Allah". This is in line with the Quranic
expression that God is One God and there is no other God
except him (compare Surah 2:163, MMP). So we can see why
Islam totally rejects the notion that God is three persons rather
than one.

Similarly, in the Hewbrew scriptures Deuteronomy 6:4 NWT or reads
"Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah." or
as the RSV puts it "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD;".
Jehovah is the most common English equivalent for the Tetragrammaton
YHWH, which is God's name that he made known to his servant Moses in 
Exodus 6:2,3 RSV "And God said to Moses, "I am the LORD. I appeared 
to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by my name 
the LORD I did not make myself known to them." As you may have 
realised "the LORD" is not a name but a title, it came about due to 
the Jewish scribes superstition of using God's name. As I understand 
it, when copying scrolls they would replace the Tetragrammaton with 
the word adonai which means the lord. 

So even the Hewbrew scriptures teach that there is one YHWH and
not three. Therefore, it is understandable why persons reject
the trinity.

Phil

btw I did not quote the Quran for I'm not sure how Muslims would
take it. I'm thinking of the issue with MacDonalds who wanted
to quote from it on their burger boxes during the soccer world
cup. If I remember rightly, Muslims took issue because these boxes
would be thrown away after use something that is forbidden when
it comes to the Quran. 

>Islam rejects the trinity, for the Quran explicitely tells
>them not to say trinity for God is one God (Surah 4:171 AYA).
    
    Those that understand the trinity (trinitarians?) also believe that God
    is 1 God.  Why else would Islam reject it?
    
>except him (compare Surah 2:163, MMP). So we can see why
>Islam totally rejects the notion that God is three persons rather
>than one.
    
    Trinitarians also belive there is only 1 God.
    
    >Jehovah is the most common English equivalent for the Tetragrammaton
    
    Jehovah is not even English, it's a German fabrication.  You will not
    find Jehovah in the Hebrew Bible.  The Tetragrammaton is closer to
    Yahweh.  The most common English equivalent of YHWH is LORD (case
    intended) and is found throughout the Bible.
    
>So even the Hewbrew scriptures teach that there is one YHWH and
>not three. 
    
    Correct, but the OT clearly presents the triune nature of our 1 God.
    I've posted plenty of OT passages that state this in the "Is Jesus
    God?" topic.
    
    >Therefore, it is understandable why persons reject the trinity.
    
    Not it isn't since there is only 1 God.
    
    Mike

re .37

Mike,

I wasn't disputing that trinitarians teach that there is more
than one God. But as I understand the trinity doctrine it 
teaches there are 3 persons in the godhead. This is what
other religions like Islam and Judaism reject. They only
accept God as being one person.

The Tetragrammaton is God's name, we can see this in Exodus 6:3
where God makes himself known to Moses by his name YHWH. It
reads "And I used to to appear to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as
God Almighty, but as respects my name Jehovah I did not make
myself known to them." NWT also compare KJV that uses JEHOVAH
and not LORD. A name identifies a person, therefore when one
reads Deuteronomy 6:4 it is not saying that God is one God
or one Lord but that JHWH our God is one JHWH or one person
who is identified by the name JHWH. It reads "'Listen, O Israel:
Jehovah our God is one Jehovah."

You say that Yahweh is closer to the Tetragrammaton, this may be 
true. But the most commonly used form in the world is Jehovah,
even the KJV has it 4 times in the Hebrew Bible (Exodus 6:3,
Isaiah 12:2, Psalm 83:18 I forgot which is the other Isaiah
scripture). People say a shortened version of Jehovah without
even realising it when they say Hallelujah, which in my own
dictionary is a word which signifies "praise ye Jehovah".
Hallelujah literally means "praise Jah". The important thing 
is to use God's name just as it is important to refer to the 
Christ as Jesus. Likewise Jesus sounds nothing like his name 
would have sounded in Hebrew, but Jesus is the most commonly 
used form today.  I'm sure that Jesus is happy when we use his 
name Jesus in a digified way rather than always refering to him
by his title the Christ, so to his father who must be happy that 
persons identify him by his name.

 
; The Tetragrammaton is closer to Yahweh.  The most common English 
; equivalent of YHWH is LORD (case  intended) and is found throughout 
; the Bible.

Mike now which is it, The Tetragrammaton (YHWH) is Yahweh or LORD?.
For one is a name and the other a title.

; Correct, but the OT clearly presents the triune nature of our 1 God.
; I've posted plenty of OT passages that state this in the "Is Jesus
; God?" topic.

I remember seeing these, but didn't comment at the time. Perhaps I might
revisit them, but I'm wary that debating this might cause offense to many.
My reason for making a response this time was to show why other religions
reject the concept of a trinity.

Phil. 

>I wasn't disputing that trinitarians teach that there is more
>than one God. But as I understand the trinity doctrine it 
>teaches there are 3 persons in the godhead. This is what
>other religions like Islam and Judaism reject. They only
>accept God as being one person.
    
    My mistake then, I thought you said "3 gods" as opposed to "3 persons." 
    Christianity is not polytheism, it is monotheism.  The Bible reveals a
    triune nature of God, but also 1 God.
    
>reads Deuteronomy 6:4 it is not saying that God is one God
>or one Lord but that JHWH our God is one JHWH or one person
>who is identified by the name JHWH. It reads "'Listen, O Israel:
>Jehovah our God is one Jehovah."
    
    I brought my Strong's in with me today.  The word God in Deuteronomy
    6:4 is Elohim, which is the *PLURAL* form of Eloah.  The word Lord in
    this same verse is YHWH which is God's name.  YHWH is one person of
    ELOHIM, yet One!
    
>scripture). People say a shortened version of Jehovah without
>even realising it when they say Hallelujah, which in my own
>dictionary is a word which signifies "praise ye Jehovah".
>Hallelujah literally means "praise Jah". The important thing 
    
    This comes from Psalms 113-118 which is sung on the final feast day 
    of the Feast of Tabernacles.  Psalm 113-118 is called the Hallel (which
    means Praise).  Throughout these Psalms you will find "Praise the Lord!" 
    which is Hallelujah in Hebrew.  The root of YHWH is added to Hallel to
    form the word.  This is common in Hebrew.  The Hebrew verb "to be"
    also has "Yah" in it.  The "jah" in Hallelujah sounds nothing like the
    first syllable in Jehovah.  It's a hard "Y" sound.
    
>Christ as Jesus. Likewise Jesus sounds nothing like his name 
>would have sounded in Hebrew, but Jesus is the most commonly 
>used form today.  I'm sure that Jesus is happy when we use his 
    
    Jesus was actually Yeshua.  
    
>name Jesus in a digified way rather than always refering to him
>by his title the Christ, so to his father who must be happy that 
>persons identify him by his name.
    
    This is purely assumption on your part.  The title of Messiah is a
    highly righteous and exalted title.  Nobody else but God is worthy of it.
    
>; The Tetragrammaton is closer to Yahweh.  The most common English 
>; equivalent of YHWH is LORD (case  intended) and is found throughout 
>; the Bible.
>Mike now which is it, The Tetragrammaton (YHWH) is Yahweh or LORD?.
>For one is a name and the other a title.
    
    Lord is the most common *English* equivalent of YHWH.  The
    Tetragrammaton is *Hebrew*.
    
    Mike

>Mike now which is it, The Tetragrammaton (YHWH) is Yahweh or LORD?.
>For one is a name and the other a title.

The Tetragrammaton is YHWH.

The Jews consider(ed) it unpronouncable or too holy to pronounce.

Thus, when reading scripture, they would say Adonai (Lord) when
encountering the Tetragrammaton.  Thus many bibles have rendered
YHWH in English as capital-L small-capital-O small-capital-R
small-capital-D.  This is distinct from how English bibles show
the word Adonai in the text; it is rendered Lord.

Hebrew bibles contained the vowel markins for Adonai (a-o-ai) over
the Tetragrammaton.  Thus people unfamiliar with Jewish usage thought
the name was YaHoWaH.  German does not have a letter Y in the language
(except for foreign words) and represents the initial Y sound with the
letter J.  This is how we got Jehovah.

/john

Note 833.101

>No one claims that the God of Isaac and Jacob is not the God of Abraham.

I have to confess I didn't realize Islam so embraced Ishmael's half-brother's
lineage of faith.

Strange that there has been so much friction between Islam and Judaism.

Shalom,
Richard

   The lineage of the descendants of Abraham has nothing to do with
   who the God of Abraham is.
   
   /john

    .42 
    
    Ahhh, I see and agree.  The Everlasting One is the Everlasting One
    no matter how divergent the people of the Everlasting One might be.
    Would that all people of monotheistic faiths could agree on this.
    
    Shalom & Salaam,
    Richard
    

   You're a sly one, Richard Jones-Christie.
   
   Trying to imply universalism when none was implied by me.
   
   There are only three monotheistic faiths which agree that they all
   believe in the One God, the God of Abraham.  They are Judaism, Islam,
   and Christianity.
   
   /john

    I'm just asking here...but wasn't the name Allah originally named by
    Islam as a God to pray for the destruction of the Hebrews?  So when
    they originally acknowledged Allah, they pray to a God in their image
    they preconceived to destroy Israel.  Just asking, I don't fully know
    the history of this.
    
    Richard, interestingly enough, Isaac and Ishmael were given two
    different covenants.  They were both promised to be great and mighty
    nations but an addendum to Ishmael's covenant was that he would be as a
    wild man and the nations of the world would be against him.  I believe
    the friction between the Jews and the Arabs is a covenant issue, not a
    land issue!
    
    -Jack

    >Strange that there has been so much friction between Islam and Judaism.
    
    Because God told Hagar there would be in Genesis 16:11-13. 
    Interestingly enough, Hagar called Christ "God" in verse 13.
    
    Mike

    God said in Genesis 16:11-13 that Ishmael would be a wild "donkey" of a
    man.  The donkey is in the original Hebrew and NAS, but not the KJV.
    
Genesis 16:12
And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's
hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

re .45

Allah is simply the Arabic word for "God".  It has been the Arabic word
for God since before there was Islam.

As I've said before, Arabic-speaking Christians pray to Allah, and have
done so since before the time of Muhammed.

/john

    .48
    
    Is there no other word for God?  The familiar affirmation isn't
    "There is no other Allah but Allah."
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

    ...or we could refer to Him by name instead of by titles.

>    Is there no other word for God?  The familiar affirmation isn't
>    "There is no other Allah but Allah."

The familiar affirmation is "There is no other god but God."

/john

    So then, are there different Arabic words for god and God?
    
    Richard
    

The word "ilaah" means god in a generic sense.  Allah is a contraction of
"al-ilaah", "the God".

The word used in Arabic translations of the Bible for God -- since _before_
the founding of Islam -- is "Allah".  "In the beginning, Allah created the
heavens and the earth."

Many Islamic scholars object to the use of the word "Allah" when speaking
English, because it creates the false implication, among people who are
unaware, that Islam refers to some god other than God.

/john

    .53
    
    Well, that explains it.
    
    I take it Allah has no proper name, like Yahweh or Elohim?
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

>    I take it Allah has no proper name, like Yahweh or Elohim?

Allah is just as "proper" a name as "God" with a capital "G".

"Yahweh" is a westernization of the unpronounceable "YHWH".

"Elohim" is the plural of "eloah".  In English, when capitalized, it means
"God"; when not capitalized, it refers to the pagan deities of the Canaanites.

   [I'm reminded of someone I know who refers to my father as "Colonel", not
    only when speaking to him, but when speaking _of_ him (in which case I
    would think she should use either "the Colonel" or "Colonel Covert").]

/john

    YHWH *IS* a proper name.