Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

>		Easter just isn't as conducive to those cathedrals of
>	consumerism (shopping malls) and the merchandising of Chia Pets.
>
>		How do account for this?

	Lack of imagination?

	Perhaps it stems from a realization that Easter is a big deal day
	while Christmas in comparitivly minor. People are not as prone to
	"mess up" an important religious event.

			Alfred

    I deny that there's "a growing emphasis on the marketability of
    Easter".  Commercial interest in Easter is limited to greeting cards,
    bunnies, and chocolate eggs.  This has been so for a long time.
    If you have evidence of a conspiracy to commercialize Easter then let's
    here more about it.
    
    Why do you characterize consumer markets as "cathedrals of consumerism
    (shopping malls) and the merchandising of Chia Pets"? Do you have the
    expectation that shopping malls have the same function in inspiring a
    sense of the sacred that cathedrals have?

    Richard,

    I don't know the answer to your question, but I can speculate; perhaps
    the reason why Easter is not as commercialized as Christmas is that
    Easter celebrates a specifically religious event.  While the birth of
    Jesus heralded the birth of Christianity, it was the Easter event that
    in many ways defined what the faith is about.  Was Christmas
    traditionally as much a significant holiday for Christianity?  My
    impression is that it was not.  Maybe it lends itself more to secular
    celebration because commemorating a great man's birth, even when he is
    the crucial figure in a religion, is perhaps more acceptable to secular
    society, especially with its tradition of gift giving that everyone can
    participate in.  While most people don't doubt that a person named
    Jesus was born, those who don't believe that the resurrection occurred
    as a historical event are much less likely to want to participate in an
    Easter celebration.

    -- Mike

    RE: .2
    
    Actually Pat, I think that Richard is right on with regard to the
    malls.  I like that phrase...."cathedrals of consumerism"!
    
    Marc H.

    Maybe Richard ought to start a note then on the phrase "cathedrals of
    consumerism".  (It's an alliteration of course)

    Is it in praise of cathedrals?
    IS it in praise of consumerism?

    Is it in derogation of cathedrals?
    Is it in derogation of consumerism?

    Do Americans has sufficient religious literacy to know what a cathedral
    is?

    A cathedral is not only a "big church" but the center (or literally
    seat) of episcopal authority.

    RE: .5
    
    I thought that it was very clear....it is a statement that many people
    put a high value on material wealth, above Christian values.
    
    Seems simple...eh?
    
    Marc H.

    Option not listed: Is it making fun of the near-religious fervor of
    American consumerism as represented by the growth of the Mall?
    

    In my best Gary Larson (The Far Side) voice...

    "Fearing that a pithy alliteration might be seen as innocuous,  Patrick
    quickly points out how a comment, once again, has debased the very
    foundations of his religious piety."

    Seriously, I don't see were any offense or confusion can be found in
    the base note.  Then again maybe it's just me.
    
    Eric

Since the celebration is always on a Sunday, I think this
takes away some of the focus of the non-religious (who
are less likely to be celebrating on a Sunday than on
a workday, for example).

Again, with the focus on a Sunday when most people still
traditionally start with a worship service (and, in fact,
the worship service itself has become an event as people
who rarely make to church are seen that day), one tends
to be forced to acknowledge, perhaps even concentrate on
the resurrection of Jesus as the reason for Easter.

Thirdly, gifts are not traditionally exchanged which takes
a lot of the marketing steam out of it.  

Collis

Re. <<< Note 619.5 by SDSVAX::SWEENEY "Patrick Sweeney in New York" >>>

>    Do Americans has sufficient religious literacy to know what a cathedral
>    is?

Most Americans don't care, since cathedrals have lost their place as centers
of religious authority.

>    A cathedral is not only a "big church" but the center (or literally
>    seat) of episcopal authority.

In the Middle Ages, cathedrals were also social and commercial centers, since
they were usually the only buildings of any size.

/Mike

    Since Jesus granted authority to the first bishops, namely the
    apostles, and has not taken away the authority of bishops, I can't see
    how you can claim that cathedrals have "lost" authority.

    The abstraction of "material wealth" is not the enemy of Christian
    values.  Rather, as always it is the conscious act of greed committed
    by people that is the sin accompanied by a lack of generosity.

    To also take into consideration, Chanukkah and Christmas are two
    holidays involving alot of commercialism.  Easter and Passover are two
    holidays which coincide with one another.  They represent a more
    spiritual time and, amazingly, passover represents a foretelling of
    what happened on Easter and Good Friday.  My feeling is that Santa has
    become the God of December.  To truly celebrate the meaning of Easter
    requires an appreciation of what historically took place outside
    Jerusalem.  Unfortunately, many still do not know what happened.
    
    -Jack

re Note 619.11 by SDSVAX::SWEENEY:

>     Since Jesus granted authority to the first bishops, namely the
>     apostles, and has not taken away the authority of bishops, I can't see
>     how you can claim that cathedrals have "lost" authority.
  
        (I think you may be following a chain of disconnected links.)

        One quality of authority is whether it has been delegated by
        one in authority.

        Another quality of authority is whether it is recognized by
        those who may be subject to it.

        I think the latter was intended.

        Bob

re Note 619.0 by CSC32::J_CHRISTIE:

> 		Easter just isn't as conducive to those cathedrals of
> 	consumerism (shopping malls) and the merchandising of Chia Pets.

        In a recent (U.S.) Public Broadcasting show on shopping
        malls, they interviewed a mall designer (architect) who said
        he deliberately includes design elements from cathedrals.

        Bob

Here's my theory.  Christmas celebrates the birth of a healthy baby boy.
Easter features a grown man who has been put to death in a shameful and
gruesome way.  Yes, it is the story of resurrection, but you can't have the
Resurrection without the crucifixion.  And there's nothing cute and cuddly
about the crucifixion.

Good Friday observances are traditionally austere, black and somber;
conditions hardly conducive to frivolous extravagance.

Richard

    Regarding secular cathedrals in modern society:
    
    A religion teacher who specialized in Islam, speaking at the Colorado
    Springs Unitarian Church, told an amusing story.  He and some
    students were driving along I-25 in Denver; one pointed to Mile High
    Stadium and said "There's the ka'bah of Colorado".
    
    (The ka'bah is an important religious shrine in Moslem theology.  I
    also don't have a dictionary with that word, so I might be spelling it
    wrong.)
    
    Anyone who has lived in Colorado knows just how true that statement is. 
    Broncomania is much like a religion in that state.
    
    -- Mike

    This weekend Emily, my 8 year old, and I were in the mall.  In the
    center of the mall they had a get-your-picture-taken-with-the-Easter-Bunny 
    display.  Emily wanted to go give the Easter Bunny a hug so I told the
    assistant that we didn't want any pictures and she walked Emily up to
    see the Easter Bunny.  Apparently the assistant told Emily to tell the
    Easter Bunny what she wanted for Easter!  I was appalled!  Emily
    thought it was sort of funny because, as she put it, "You don't get
    presents for Easter, you get EGGS!"
    
    Nanci

    In my home, the Christian aspect of both observances had to come in
    covertly since Jesus was not welcome by the dominant half of my 
    parents. It seems that Santa and the Easter Bunny are diversionary
    tactics used by non-believers to water down or divert everyone from
    any real focus on the Christian meaning of those days. This can be
    seen every year at Christmas when their are countless "Christmas
    shows" 98% of which refrain from any mention of Christ.
    
    Christian households certainly can participate in Santa and the
    Easter Bunny, but I would say that the parents need to be vigilant
    about ensuring their children come to know the REAL reason for the
    celebrations. 
    
    I agree with Richard, it's easier to celebrate the birth of the Savior
    rather than to confront the price He paid for our salvation; the
    latter, if truely contemplated calls us to soul-searching conversion.
    
    In this day when "freedom of religion" means free to worship ONLY in
    ones home or church, no public displays allowed, Santa and the Easter
    Bunny are more than welcome to fill the gap.
    
    Mary
    

    As an ex-retailer let me tell you that more candy [ chocolate bunnies,
    M&M's, marshmallow chicks whatever ] is sold during Easter than during
    Valentines Day or Halloween.  This is in terms of $'s.  Hard to
    believe? Consider the cost of one of those Chocolate Easter Rabbits. 
    Now add in the Easter candy a child gets from relatives. Compare that
    to the mini-Snicker bars you hand out on Halloween and figure the total
    a child gets from Halloween night. On a lb. / 'event'  basis it's
    close. But the extra $'s are in the packaging.  Easter candy is ornate,
    overly packaged, colorfully 'foiled' and hollow. Easter is big!

    RE: .20
    
    Isn't Christmas the biggest candy sales time?
    
    Marc H.

    doesn't that depend upon how you classify store-bought fruitcake?

    Fruit cake? My pick is Collins Street Bakery....in a class by itself.
    Not candy at all.
    
    Marc H.