Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    
    A church that relys on God's direction expressed through the 
    	Holy Spirit through the bible, prayer, circumstances, and 
    	through the church leaders.
    A church that focuses on meeting each others needs.
    A church that looks to meet needs in the community.
    A church that preaches the Gospel.
    A church that teaches Christians to do the same.
    
    Jill

I think one can tell a lot about a church by the way it welcomes the
stranger and the way it treats the seeker.

One can tell a lot about the spiritual health of a church by how it
responds to the marginalized people of the world.

Richard

    One sign that I can think of is to see many young children and young
    couples in church. Also, to hear a lot of "small talk" between the
    members as they sit in the pews before the service starts.
    
    Marc H.

  >I think one can tell a lot about a church by the way it welcomes the
  >stranger and the way it treats the seeker.

Although I agree that a Spirit-filled church should do this (and it
should be very important), I would not necessarily say that this
is a sign of a Spirit-filled church (which is part of my definition
of "healthy").  I've been in churches where the atmosphere is very
cordial and loving and where the members don't have a clue what
it is to be a church of Jesus Christ, much less a healthy church.

First and foremost, in my opinion, is the presence of God.  This is
most obviously found in the *worship* that takes place.  If the
people are worshipping God, then the rest (definately including a
warm and loving atmosphere for visitors) will come.  If the congregation
is not worshipping the true God, then you can either hang it up or
pray and work for revival/cleansing.

All this assumes, of course, that God/Jesus should be part of the
church.  You may have different answers if God (as He has revealed
Himself - not as we have created Him!!!) is considered optional.

Collis

    
    RE: 602.4
    
    Amen Collis, Amen.

Dr. Harvey Martz, senior pastor of Calvary United Methodist Church in
Colorado Springs, has been quoted elsewhere in this conference.  Most
locals think of him as a flaming liberal.  I consider his perspective
to be a moderate one.

If you have questions as to what he means, you may write Rev. Martz directly.
	Calvary United Methodist Church
	4210 Austin Bluffs Parkway
	Colorado Springs, Co 80918

The following are excerpts from a sermon Martz delivered on April 25:

                         WHEN RELIGION GETS SICK

	The events in Waco give us new reason to question the old formula
that says, "I think one religion is just as good as another religion."
David Koresh quoted the Bible and talked about God a lot, but was his
cult a pathway to God or something else?

	Waco not only raises the question of the danger of cults, but
also the question of when religion gets sick, because religion can get
sick.  The extreme example of David Koresh reminds us that just because
someone uses the Bible and mentions God doesn't mean that what he or she
is doing or saying is right or good or healthy.  And we can think back
to when Jesus was in the wilderness when even the devil was able to
quote Scripture.

	The concept of a sick religion is not a new one.  Jesus had
his harshest words to say about the abuses of religion in his time:
about the sickness that he saw in religious self-righteousness and
exclusiveness.

	We especially need to raise this question is our own city of
Colorado Springs, where we have lay persons and clergy leaders in the
past few months speaking out in favor of discrimination.

	Religion can be healing and life-affirming or it can be repressive
and life-crippling, depending on how it is understood and used.  It may
not just be the cults that are unhealthy and destructive for the human
spirit -- it may also be some common and very popular groups.

	Here are some guidelines I think are important:	

	First, I look at the favorite Scripture of a group or a church.
Every group, every leader of a church, has some favorite Scriptures.
Some churches emphasize the Old Testament more than the New Testament.
Some churches emphasize the letters of Paul more than they do the Gospels.
The Gospels are where we get to know Jesus best.  I think that one of
the things that causes religions to get sick is when they lose touch
with the teaching and humanity of Jesus.

	The Revelation was David Koresh's favorite part of the Bible.
That makes me suspicious, because that book is full of code language
and fantastic imagery to communicate the simple message that God is going
to prevail.  The book is the most misused and misunderstood book in the
Bible.

	Second, I look at how a religion or church treats the little
people, the forgotten people, the least, the last, and the lost.  Does
it encourage compassion and justice for those who are needy and poor,
or is it simply a "feel good religion" that only ministers to those who
are already comfortable?

	A third question about a healthy or unhealthy religion is what a
church or religion does to foster healthy self-esteem in people.  Does
it assume as Jesus assumes in our Scriptures that it is good and acceptable
to love one's self so we can also love our neighbor?

	Does it continually preach to people about how bad they are, about
what wretches they are, what worthless worms they are?  What did Jesus do
and say?  He treated people with love and care and acceptance, and he assumed
that even those who were rejected by the religion of his time were lovable
and acceptable creations of God.  Does a religion talk more about sin or
about grace?

	Fourth, are the followers of a particular church or a leader
joyful in their lifestyle, or are they grim?  Mary Chapin Carpenter
talks about "a preacher who speaks of the light but there was really
brimstone in his throat."  We remember that Jesus was accused of being
too joyful, too willing to embrace and affirm life.

	Next, I look at the primary picture of God held by a group or
a church or a sect.  Is God seen as an angry, condemning judge who's waiting
to catch us doing something bad so we can be punished?  Is God the source
of all tragedies and accidents as God is for fundamentalist Muslims and
fundamentalist Christians, or is God's will for good, while at the same time
there can be randomness in our accidents.  The latter is Jesus' view of
the world.

	Sixth:  What's the relationship of this religion to nationalism?
Does it encourage a blind obedience to civil authorities?  Does it wrap
the flag around the cross?  Does it encourage a superficial nationalism
that always sees God on the side of our country?

	I am also concerned about whether a church or a group or a sect
has several levels of membership.  Does it allow women to be full participants
and leaders, or is it sexist and patriarchal like the religions Jesus opposed?
Does it take seriously Paul's words that in Christ the barriers of
discrimination and second-class citizenship are broken now?

	The next question is how does a group or church treat the people who
disagree with them?  Is there room for diversity and the ability to think for
oneself?  Another piece of this question is whether this church sees itself
as the only true church and any others who don't think the same way are
just heathen people, obviously going to hell.

	Ninth, who does the group see as its enemy?  The godless
Communists used to be the enemy for some churches which allowed
them to rally their forces.  Is there a mentality that says we wear
the white hats and the other people wear the black hats, an "us
an them" mentality where there is no room for complexity and
ambiguity?

	Next, how authoritarian is the leadership of a particular
group?  David Koresh was very authoritarian.  Many churches and
groups like his attract people who want or need somebody else to
do their thinking for them.  Authoritarian churches are just as
damaging as authoritarian governments because they trample on the
human will and the human spirit.

	Eleventh, what's the attitude toward scientific truth and reason
in a group or church?  Is it hostile toward any truth besides biblical
truth, or does it see God as the source of all truth and is willing to
learn new truths from science and through reason that may not be contained
in the Bible?

	Twelfth:  Does the teaching of the group, if it's Christian,
concentrate on what Jesus calls "the weightier matters of the law" --
justice, mercy, faith, and compassion -- or does it major in minors
and concentrate on what's trivial?

	Finally, and most importantly, if we are talking about Christian 
groups, how much of Jesus do we see in their life and their practices?
Do we see a Jesus who got into trouble because he questioned the
conventional and traditional values of his time?  Do we see the Jesus
who welcomed and associated withthe outcasts, misfits, the social deviants
of his time and therefore was accused of being soft on sin?  Do we see
the Jesus who condemns self-righteousness and racism and prejudice and
discrimination and kept drawing the circle of who belonged in the family
of God bigger and bigger?  How much of Jesus do we see?