Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

Standing in the synagogue in Jerusalem where Jesus taught that he would
be giving us the Holy Eucharist (John 6:26-59) and reading that text was
profoundly moving.

Walking home from the Holy Sepulchre with my wife crying because a merchant
had invaded that holy place while she was reading and tried to get her to
come to his shop was most disturbing.

Having to argue with a "guide" who insisted that we could not have a
meaningful visit to the Church of the Nativity without him was annoying.
Without him, we were able to participate in a celebration of the Mass with
a group of Portugese pilgrims in the birth crypt, hold hands with them
during the Lord's prayer, and exchange the peace -- much more appropriate
for the place than his compendium of facts would have been.

Knowing that I could not tell Israeli security, when they asked me if anyone
had given me anything to take home, that Sister Katarina (a Greek Orthodox
nun I talked to near the altar of the Crucifixion) had given me two small
"Holy stones from the Calvary" because we would then have to unpack all our
luggage to prove that they weren't bombs was disconcerting.

/john

    I hope that I someday have a chance to go. With 5 children and a
    mortgage and a DEC job.....well....in my dreams.
    
    Marc H.

re .2

	Marc,

	Do you have any museum's nearby that contain artifact's from
	ancient Egypt,Israel or the surroundings countries. It is not
	the same thing as travelling to these countries, but it can bring
	to life many of the Biblical passages.

	We have the British Museum close to us and on many occassions
	my family have been on Bible tours around the museum. I found that
	it brought home and gave me a better understanding to such things 
	as the apostle Paul's illustrations, like the one regarding
	spiritual Armour. And the lifestyle Abraham had left in the city 
	of Ur, it was quite an eye opener. It was also pleasant just to 
	meander around.

	Phil.

	Btw I have had the privilege of going to Egypt and visiting the
	Temples in Luxor,Aswan and Abu Simbel. The Ancient Egyptians certainly 
	went into private or personal religion in a big way.

    RE: 41.314

>	JERUSALEM (UPI) -- Israeli archaeologists have uncovered a fifth-
>century church outside Jerusalem that early Christian leaders may have
>built to mark what they believed was the site where Mary rested while en
>route to Bethlehem where she gave birth to Jesus, officials said
>Wednesday.

    Israelis I visited with say "it's a good thing the Sea of Galilee is so
    big. Otherwise the Christians would have built a church over it."
    Though they often use the name of the lake, whose spelling I can't remember,
    rather than "sea of Galilee." 

    The skeptics in the middle east say that what happened when the
    Crusaders took over Palestine was that they asked native guides where
    things from the New Testament took place. Their assumption was that
    such things were so important that obviously the people who lived there
    would remember. The residents were Moslems and frankly didn't care
    where Christian events took place. They did however realize that there
    was money to be made showing people what they wanted to see. (still
    true. :-)) So they showed the Christians where things "could" have
    taken place. That is to say that they match the Biblical description.

    Of course the very faithful would hold that God lead the guides to show
    the right place. Have it your way.  For me it's enough that a place was
    there when Jesus was and could have been there. Awesome feeling.

    Some things though are pretty reliable. The outer walls of the temple
    have been fairly accurately dated to Jesus' time. As has the grove of
    olive trees across the Kedran valley from Jerusalem. Some synagogue
    grounds and that sort of thing.

>	The church's eight-sided shape is the same as that of the seventh-
>century Dome of the Rock, which sits atop the Temple Mount in Jerusalem
>and is the Muslim world's third holiest shrine.

    Wonderful sentence to parse. :-) Least there be confusion, the Dome
    of the Rock is not the third holiest shrine in the Moslem world. There
    is an other mosque on the temple mound that *is* the third holiest
    shrine in the Moslem world. That mosque stands on the spot where
    tradition says that Mohammed was taken directly to heaven. The
    Dome of the Rock sits on top of the rock, which you can go in and see and
    touch, where tradition says that Abraham took his son to be sacrificed.
    This is the actual site, according to many, of the temple of Jesus' time.

    The temple mound is forbidden to orthodox Jews BTW. Not by Moslems but
    by Jewish rules. The inner court of the temple was forbidden to all but
    the high priest. Since no one knows where exactly the temple stood one
    might accidentally step into where the inner court used to be. To avoid 
    this, orthodox Jews keep off the mound all together. There are signs in
    several languages at entrances to the mound with this warning.

    			Alfred

    I loved my trip to Israel.  I particularly liked the municipally- 
    sponsored walking tours of Jerusalem.  They are inexpensive and 
    highly informative.  
    
    On one tour, we went outside the city walls and up to Gethsemane. 
    There is a beautiful little monument there.  Each wall presents the
    Lords Prayer in mosaics, each in a different language and native
    artistic style.  You exit the monument into a meditation garden that is
    in an ancient olive grove.  Some of the olive trees are about 2000
    years old.  Sitting on the hillside, you have a good view of the walls
    of Jerusalem.
    
    We stopped at a grotto on the way down.  Some Eastern Orthodox people
    believe that Jesus was buried in this grotto. Hanging from the ceiling
    were large chandeliers of candles.
    
    I enjoyed wandering the Christian quarter, as well.  So many different
    types of Christianity are represented.  I was very grateful to the
    Lutheran church which not only had a tower with a good view of the
    city, but was air conditioned! :-) 
    
    I took a bus tour that included the Galilee.  On the shores of Lake
    Kinneret (trans. harp), we stopped at an archeological site where a
    Roman-period synagogue had been excavated.  There was many lovely
    mosaic panels on display.  They had also excavated a group of crude
    stone buildings which dated to the same period.  One is rumored to have
    been a residence of Jesus.  
    
    While it is impossible in most cases to be certain where Jesus or other
    historical personages lived or walked, it is indeed exciting to know
    that they may very well have been at particular sites, or nearby.
    
    Bring your suntan lotion and a canteen of water.  Definitely GO.
    
    L

>    I took a bus tour that included the Galilee.  On the shores of Lake
>    Kinneret (trans. harp), we stopped at an archeological site where a
     ^^^^^^^^

    Yeah, that's the spelling I was looking for. There is an other that 
    starts with a "G". That word also means harp. The lake is more or less
    harp shaped hence the name.

    		Alfred

>    We stopped at a grotto on the way down.  Some Eastern Orthodox people
>    believe that Jesus was buried in this grotto. Hanging from the ceiling
>    were large chandeliers of candles.

Mary, not Jesus.  And the Orthodox tradition is not that she was buried, but
that she "slept" there for some short period until being taken into heaven,
which is why the place you visited is called the Church of the "Dormition" of
Mary.

In the tradition of the Eastern, Anglican, and Roman Catholic Church, Mary
was taken into heaven either a few days or months after or at the moment
of the end of her earthly life.  In 1953, in order to end speculation over
which version of the tradition was correct, the Roman Catholic Church
dogmatically asserted (under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and with the
agreement of most bishops thoughout the world) that the Assumption took
place immediately at the completion of her earthly life.

/john

I have wanted to visit Jerusalem and the region known as the Holy Land for
some time now.

I've been reluctant to pursue going because I suspect not much in the way
of accommodation has been made for someone in a wheelchair to actually
"be there" at many of the historic places.

Perhaps some of you who've been there can give me some insight concerning
this.

Peace,
Richard

    For several years, the NPR (National Public Radio) reporter covering
    Israel was a fellow who is in a wheelchair.
    
    I just can't recall his name.  He's on another assignment now, I think
    in the US.  Maybe another reader will remember his name?  You could
    also phone NPR in Washington and ask someone on the news staff.
    
    L

    RE:  .7
    
    >Mary, not Jesus.
    
    Sorry.
    
    L
    

    It's been 20 years since my last visit but I don't recall much of
    Biblical and historical interest Israel being wheelchair accessible.
    The more modern parts, the parts a reporter would be visiting to cover
    the news, are different and are probably much more accessible. Many of
    the older places have narrow, steep stairs for example. Some
    archaeological sites may not be bad however. Ramps are needed for
    wheelbarrows and the like after all. But churches built 1,000 or even
    a couple of hundred years ago don't seem to have built with wheelchairs
    in mind. And retro-fitting them is difficult, expensive and, some would
    argue, come at the additional cost of obscuring or destroying art
    and/or architectural features of historical or even religious value.

    So some things are probably accessible while other will never be. There
    are tunnels, and caves and grottoes that would be impossible ever to
    reach without leaving a wheelchair. Other places hard to get to but
    that once there one could get around. And some, especially more modern
    places that one could get to and around. But a trip would have to be
    planned carefully by someone who knew both the sites and the
    limitations they present to the wheelchair traveler.

    			Alfred

    
    Ace,
    
    Don't know if this would fit in with your plans, but...
    There's a tour being sponsored by Inspiration Cruises & Tours.
    It seems like a good deal.   But I thought I'd post the info
    here since it's out of my means right now to go.
    
    Tour Itenarary:
    
    Monday - May 10 - depart from NY aboard El Al Airline's non-stop
    flight to Tel Aviv.  Connecting flights available from other US
    cities.
    
    Tuesday - MAy 11 - Upon your arrival at Tel Aviv, you will be met and
    transferred for overnight at the Dan Panorama Hotel.
    
    Wednesday - May 12 to Thursday - May 13 - Toruing Northern Israel
    including Cana, Nazareth, Megiddo, Caesarea, Armageddon, Jordan River 
    site, Sea of Galilee boat ride, Capernaum, and Mount of Beautitudes.
    Your two-night stay in Tiberias will be at the Jordan River Hotel.
    
    Friday - May 14 to Tuesday - May 18 - Touring Jerusalem and surrounding
    sites including the Dead Sea, Masada, Jericho, Mount of Olives, Garden
    of Gethsemane, Upper Room, House of Caiaphas, Kidron Valley, Mt. Zion,
    Shrine of the Book, Garden Tomb, Calvary, Bethlehem, Temple Mount, and
    more.  Your stay in Jerusalem will be at the beautiful Ramada
    Renaissance Hotel.
    
    Wednesday - May 19 - Depart aboard El Al Airlines to New York.
    
    Tour includes:
    
    o  Round trip airfare from NY via El Al Israel Airlines (other carriers 
       may be used for US connecting cities)
    o  Daily times of teaching with Rich Buhler and Hank Hanegraaff.
    o  Porterage, Transfers, and Taxes at hotels - entrance fees to all
       sightseeing
    o  Breakfast and dinner daily at listed hotels
    o  Full sightseeing by private, deluxe, air-conditioned motorcoach
        with Israeli English-speaking guides.
    o  Music presented by Doug Oldham, a cornerstone of gospel music,
       on two special occasions.  
    
    Tour Rate:	$1,985 from New York.  Call toll free for air add-on rates
    from your home city.  Rates are double occupancy per person.  Call for
    information regarding single occupancy rates.
    
    A deposit of $350 per person is required.  Final payment is due 90 days  
    before departure.  
    
    Not included:  Item of a personal nature including laundry or room
    service at hotels, passport costs, airport taxes, gratuities for
    guides and bus drivers.  A per person airport tax of $33 will be added
    to the confirmation.
    
    Passport:  A valid passport is required and must be obtained by each
    passenger at your local passport office or by securing an application
    from your local post office.
    
    Rates:  All rates are quoted in US dollars and based on fares in effect
    at the time tour brochures are published.  Connecting air rates must be
    quoted by phone.  Whenever possible Inspiration Cruises & Tours obtains 
    price guarantees from suppliers; however, published rates are subject
    to change without notice.
    
    Cancellations & Refunds:  Up to 90 days before departure a $25 per
    passenger administrative fee will be charged.  In addition, between
    90 and 60 days, $150 per passenger; 59 to 30 days, $300; 29 to
    10 days, 25% of the fare; within 10 days, no refund.
    
    Trip Cancellation Insurance - Information regarding insureance to cover
    cancellation, baggage, medical emergencies, etc. will be mailed with
    your final payment notice.
    
    Ispiration Cruises & Tours, Inc.
    1551 E. Shaw, Ste. 107
    Fresno, CA  93710
    (209) 224-5427
    (800)247-1899 for questions  830-1700 PST

re.12

	Jill,


	thanks!


ace

    
    Richard,  I was looking Fodor's guide of Israel (1991) because I'm
    trying to decide whether to go on the trip I wrote about in Note
    562.12.  I noticed they had some general info about "Hints for
    Handicapped Travelers."  I thought I would post it here.  It goes
    from general to specific to Israel.  Not all of it will apply to
    you, but I decided to type the whole page in case there are others
    that it would help.  I check this book out from the library after
    looking over the 1993-1994 edition.  I would imagine that not much
    has changed in two years.
    
    Jill
    <FF>
    "Access to the World: A Travel Guide for the Handicapped," by Louise
    Weiss, is a useful book covering all aspects of travel for anyone with
    health or medical problems.  It features extensive listings and
    suggestions on everything from availability of special diets to
    wheelchair accessibility.  The guide is available from Henry Holt &
    Co., Box 30135, Salt Lake City, Utah 84130 (800-247-3912).
    
    Tours speciaally designed for the handicapped generally parallel those
    of the non-handicapped traveler, but at a more leisurely pace.  For a
    complete list of tour operators who arrange such travel write to the
    Society for the Advancement of Travel for the Handicapped, 26 Court
    St., Penthouse, Brooklyn, NY  11242.  For information send a
    self-addressed envelope and $1.  The Travel Infomation Service, Moss
    Rehabilitation Hospital, 12th St. and Tabor Rd., Philadelphia, PA
    19141, answers inquiries regarding specific cities and countries 
    as well as providing toll-free telephone numbers for airlines with 
    special lines for the hearing impaired and, again, listings of 
    selected tour operators.  Also helpful is the Information Center 
    for Individuals with Disabilities, Fort Point Place, 1st Floor, 
    27-43 Wormwood St., Boston, MA 02217-1606 (tel. 617-727-5540).
    
    The International Air Transport Association (IATA) publishes a free
    pamphlet, Incapacitated Passengers' Air Travel Guide, explaining the
    various arrangements to be made and how to make them.  Write IATA,
    2000 Peel St., Montreal, Quebec H3A 2R4.
    
    In the UK., contact Mobility International, 228 Borough High St.,
    London SE1 1JX; the Royal Society for Mentally Handicapped Children and
    Adults, 123 Golden Lane, London EC1Y ORT; the Across Trust, Bridge
    House, 70-72 Ridge Rd., E. Molesey, Surrey K28 9HF (they have an
    amazing series of "Jumbulances," huge articulated ambulances, staffed
    by volunteer doctors and nurses, that can whisk even the most seriously
    handicapped across Eurpoe in comfort and safety).  But the main source
    in Britain for all advice on handicapped travel is the Royal
    Association for Disability and Rehabilitation (RADAR), 25 Mortimer St.,
    London W1N 8AB.
    
    M.A.M. (a Hebrew acronym for "Welfar Manpower Pool") will provide on
    request medical or paramedical professionals to assist, escor, and
    generally help disabled visitors.  M.A.M, "Golden Tower," 35 Ben Zvi
    Blvd., 96260 Jerusalem (02-223251 or 02-246207).
    

    
    Sure Richard.  It caught my eye having remembered your request in
    562.8.  Hope it's of some use.
    
    Let me ask some people who have gone to Israel something.  My
    family is really giving me a lot of flack about going because
    of safety issues.  It's my opinion that if your days are up,
    they are up regardless of whether you're in Israel or Colorado.
    Did this issue bother anyone when they went to Israel?
    
    Jill

re Note 562.16 by CSC32::KINSELLA:

>     It's my opinion that if your days are up,
>     they are up regardless of whether you're in Israel or Colorado.
  
        It would seem to me that the U.S. isn't a particularly safe
        place these days, either.

        Bob

    It's never a safe time to go to Israel.  ;-)  That's a standing joke
    in the Jewish community, particularly parents sending off their
    adolescent children.  You sort of get innured to it after awhile...
    
    Just go when it is a good time for you, is all I can say.
    
    Laura

Since returning from Galilee I cannot read the poem I posted in 698.1 without
tears streaming down my face.

    Contented, peaceful fishermen, before they ever knew
    The peace of God that filled their hearts brimful, and broke them, too.

The last four verses of it (with the first word changed to "They cast") are
one of my favorite hymns; the tune of which is "Georgetown", named in honor
of my aunt and uncle's parish, St. John's in Georgetown, D.C.

Since "Being There" I haven't been able to sing it without my voice breaking
off somewhere.

/john

    .19  Thank you for that, John.
    
    I bid you peace,
    Richard