Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

	Yes to both. Sort of. Sort of a "when did you stop beating your wife"
	sort of question the way it's worded in .0.

	Man was created in God's image. Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his 
	own image ..." But is man and the human body the same thing? I'm not
	sure that it is. I don't think that man ever was a complete image of
	God. Not in body or nature. I believe God created an image of Himself
	that was "scaled down" to fit the world. So in that sense I believe 
	that man is a magnificent creation reflecting the image of the Creator.
	This is true of the body to some extent but more so to man's nature.
	Of course God is so overwhelming that even a pale image is pretty
	special.

	However, man sort of screwed up a bit real early. The apple bit. As a
	result of this man is sinful by nature. That doesn't mean his body is
	sinfull. The body is mearly a shell. The person and their nature is 
	something else again. 

			Alfred

Well, speaking on behalf of my own body, this is hardly a precision instrument.
If my body was created in God's image, well, it certainly testifies to God's
uncoventional wisdom and mysterious ways.

I'm not so sure about the inheritance factor of sin.  I know the Genesis
story would seem to confirm it.  But there are a couple of strong statements
in Ezekiel which indicate that children do not share the sins of their
predecessors.  I tend to wonder if Genesis is given greater emphasis
because of its position of priority in the Bible.  According to the book
"Understanding the Old Testament," Genesis was not the first book of the
Bible from a chronological standpoint.

Peace,
Richard

>Well, speaking on behalf of my own body, this is hardly a precision instrument.

    Your physical limitations not with standing your mind alone is a pretty
    impressive instrument. And as I said, I am not convinced that our
    bodies are the part of us that is in God's image.

>story would seem to confirm it.  But there are a couple of strong statements
>in Ezekiel which indicate that children do not share the sins of their
>predecessors.  I tend to wonder if Genesis is given greater emphasis
>because of its position of priority in the Bible.  According to the book
>"Understanding the Old Testament," Genesis was not the first book of the
>Bible from a chronological standpoint.


    	What statements in Ezekiel are those. (You knew I was going to ask
    that didn't you? :-) ) So what book is about events that took place
    before Gen. 1:1? Oh, you mean it was written latter then some other
    books? I don't see how that would change anything.

    			Alfred

.0> The human body ..is it a magnificent creation ...

Alfred .. Richard ... you've  both met me.  Now, it took me 30 years of
some serious beer drinking to get this body of mine into it's present
form .. if either of you consider this a "magnificent creation" I'd
recommend that you see an optometrist at the earliest possible date.

Bubba

	Richard .. Bubba .. You guys seem to have a narrow idea of what 
	magnificent is. You focus on the down side of your own individual
	bodies, as I do every morning on the scale, and neglect the positive
	sides. The wonderful things that do work. Blood flowing, nutrients 
	and oxygen reaching where they're needed, the mind working and thinking
	in ways no other creature on God's earth can. Reproduction. Both of
	you have children. Do you doubt their being magnificent? I doubt it. :-)

	Sure not every body looks or works as we'd like it to but that doesn't
	mean the human body in general isn't magnificent or even that parts of
	everyones body aren't special. I'm reminded of a t-shirt I've seen. It
	says "I may not be perfect but parts of me are terrific."

	As for me the sight of my wife alone is enough to convince me that 
	the human body is a magnificent creation. 

			Alfred

Note 518.3 Alfred,

>    Your physical limitations not with standing your mind alone is a pretty
>    impressive instrument. And as I said, I am not convinced that our
>    bodies are the part of us that is in God's image.

I believe we are more than our bodies.  It would be unbearable to believe I
was only my body.  Of course, the trouble with this is that just because I
find something unbearable to believe doesn't make it so.

>    	What statements in Ezekiel are those. (You knew I was going to ask
>    that didn't you? :-) )

Frankly, Alfred, I forgot.  I should have known you'd ask.  Try Ezekiel, all
of chapter 18.  I know it's been discussed elsewhere in this notesfile, but I
don't recall where.

>    So what book is about events that took place
>    before Gen. 1:1? Oh, you mean it was written latter then some other
>    books? I don't see how that would change anything.

Yes, according to "Understanding the Old Testament," Exodus is a much older
story than Genesis.  It know placement can make a difference.  For example,
it was not a matter of chance that Matthew was made the first of the Gospels
(though, in all honesty, I cannot remember why Matthew was selected to be
first).

Peace,
Richard

Note 518.5

Alfred,

>	As for me the sight of my wife alone is enough to convince me that 
>	the human body is a magnificent creation. 

I can relate to this.  When I look at Sharon, particularly when she's
undressed, I sometimes whisper this praise: "Nice work, God!" :-)

Peace,
Richard

   You gotta admit God done well when it came to us humans.  Our
   beauty is in our imperfections and our constant striving to become
   better.  We aren't inherently bad, though we are easily corrupted.

   Of course on the humorous side...
   	
   	Man was only the engineering sample, woman was the finished
   	design.

   Peace,
   Allison

   PS: Smile, we are the only species on earth who can know God.

    Mark Twain said:  "Man is the only animal that blushes...or needs to."
    
    Peace,
    Richard