Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    Is this where we debate if the rapture will come before the bad
    times, during the bad times, or after the bad times? Or is that
    a seperate topic?
    
    And why do you suspect that when Jesus collects  the Christians
    you will not be collected?
    
    			Alfred

    Richard, a Rapture party sounds like an excellent excuse to fly out to
    Colorado.  If enought people get raptured, I won't have to worry about
    the flights being full.  :-)
    
    -- Mike

    On the other hand, Mike, if the WWN is right everybody could be
    raptured to Colorado!  Everything returns to its' origins, right?  ;-)
    
    Nanci
    

    Good point, Nanci!  :-)

    Now seriously folks, your gonna tell me, that if millions of people
    suddenly 'vanish', your going to party???? Hmmm, something doesn't ring
    right here. Oh yea, if you are not prepared or expect to be Raptured,
    (e.g. You have not accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and
    Savior, and/or just do not believe in him), then you better hope your
    not in a plane where the pilot believes, and is raptured, or on the
    road, where cars, with 'no' driver in them could hit you. 
    
    Course, I know some people who will party for any reason...
    
    
    bye (or until later)
    
    Joe

   Well folks,

   There is much to this rapture thing I don't grok!  The only usage
   of the word for me is rapture of the deep which is the other name
   for nitrogen narcosis(from my diving days), and I don't see that
   as being a very good thing(can you say deadly!).  So here I am reading
   this string about something(rapture?) I associate with a negative
   condition.  There are obviously two views, it's gonna be great and
   so big deal!  Help for the clueless?


   Allison

   PS: re .-1  I see no problems.  Between racing and being a pilot
   and a few other things...  I'm prepared!

    Answer
    
    Allison, the 'rapture' refers to the belief that at the second
    coming of Christ all the good Christians will be lifted up bodily
    to Heaven. There are some fundamentalist Christians that boast that
    they will be among those raptured and not those left behind for
    the times of tribulation. There used to be bumper stickers for
    cars that said 'Incase of Rapture This Car will be Unmanned'.
    (Which I personally thought a tad arrogant, but then). So for
    good Christians to be talking about holding a 'post rapture party'...
    well it's a bit tongue in cheek, and very likely from the sorts
    of folks that hang out here. :-)
    
    Bonnie

>    Allison, the 'rapture' refers to the belief that at the second
>    coming of Christ all the good Christians will be lifted up bodily
>    to Heaven.

	Not all the good Christians - All the Christians. This of course
	led to my question about why anyone who concidered themselves a
	Christian would expect to be left behind. Of course if you don't
	believe in the rapture, and I'm not sure I do, it's all moot anyway.

			Alfred

    re: .0
    
    Sensing the imminent, Richard?
    

    Perhaps we can think of some possible ways of staging the  post-Rapture
    party.  For example, we could have a cable television turned to Pat
    Robertson's "Family Channel", or the programs of any televangelist you
    care to mention, and of course the programs would be blank.  I can just
    see it now--someone gets out their TV guide, and says, "Hey everybody,
    televangelist X is scheduled to be on channel 3 at 10:30.  Let's change
    the channel!"  And when we change it to channel 3, all we get is snow,
    and everyone cheers loudly.

    -- Mike

    Alfred,
    
    I meant that in the sense that many of these people defined an awful
    lot of the rest of us as not being Christian. So the 'good Christians'
    was a bit tongue in cheek.
    
    Bonnie

<    Robertson's "Family Channel", or the programs of any televangelist you
<    care to mention, and of course the programs would be blank.  I can just
<    see it now--someone gets out their TV guide, and says, "Hey everybody,

   Mike,

   I would have guessed the Disney channel over televangelist
   broadcasts...  ;-)


   All,

   Don't get upset with me.  I fall on what I'll call the cusp as
   Christian.   Please take my posting as semi-serious and a slight
   poke at religious use of english verses conventional use.   ;-) ;-)

   Would I be there for the party, I don't know and it certainly would
   not be resonable to govern my life on _the rapture_ when I hear the
   religious disagrement on what it takes to qualify.  On the other hand
   if I'm here for the party I will have certain knowledge of who was
   actually right...  ;-)

   Peace and lots of smiles,
   Allison

    Re .5 Joe (Welcome to C-P!),
    
    See 98.19
    
    Peace,
    Richard

    Re: .10,
    
    Nobody knows when it's to occur, of course.  But the way I see it,
    Mary, why wait until it's started?
    
    If it occurs in my lifetime and I am among those who are called but not
    chosen, then I'll be happy to stay behind and gather in friendship with
    people of goodwill.
    
    Peace,
    Richard

    
    
    Why not devote 'efforts' to being among the raptured?
    
    
    Why is it that you (plural) think you'll be left behind?
    
    
    (I, by the way, don't necessarily subscribe to the rapture
    interpretation of what is to come, but am interested in the viewpoints.)
    
    
    Mary
    
    

Mary, Note 459.16,
    
>    Why not devote 'efforts' to being among the raptured?
    
See 98.19

Seriously, though, what efforts might you suggest?
    
>    Why is it that you (plural) think you'll be left behind?

Well, I'm not sure I'll be left behind and I'm not sure I won't.  Oh, and
I'm not so sure I subscribe to the Rapture, either.  But, that doesn't mean
it won't happen.

Peace,
Richard

    Mary
    
    The 'you (plural)' I can't answer for. However I can respond to
    my own impressions. There are those Christians (among whom I
    include myself) and non Christian searchers (call them group A) 
    who do not believe as other Christians do on many issues. These
    include many of the hot issues discussed in this file, abortion,
    Biblical inerrancy, homosexuality to name three. Many people
    who are strong believers in the rapture are found among those
    with the beliefs of group B. Many members of group B feel that
    those of group A are simply not Christians. Further many members
    of group A don't necessarily believe in the rapture. 
    
    So my personal take on the whole thing is that people saying that
    they won't be raptured is that they are saying that they think
    that members of group B don't think that they will be, and they
    are being a bit tongue in cheek.
    
    bonnie

    I do understand that the question about the post-rapture party
    is said tongue in cheek, but it it a rather dark humor from my
    point of view.
    
    In an earlier note I remarked that efforts might be better 
    directed to being one of the raptured. Richard asked (probably
    also tongue in cheek) what I'd suggest to make this 'effort'.
    
    I realize that I'm being serious here, but it could be an important
    topic depending on your viewpoint. Since this Notesfile is comprised
    of 'less traditional' Christians, and even people of other faiths
    my response has to be 'prayer'.
    
    This prayer does not depend on any religious dogmas other than faith
    in the Christian Triune God; if this is not your faith, please pray
    for that faith! If there is no such God then you have no fears, there
    is no way this prayer could be answered.
    
    This is a prayer of Surrender to God; God, who is All Good will ensure
    that all other blocks are removed from your paths. This prayer is
    worth praying daily :
    
    			PRAYER OF SURRENDER
    
    	Dearest Lord, I wish to give myself to You, in complete
    	surrender. Let everything within me be the way you order
    	it to be. If there is anything within me that has not been
    	fully given over to You, dear Lord, help me search it out
    	and turn it over to You. My Lord and My God, everything
    	in my life must be in Your Divine Order so that my place
    	as a branch of the Blessed Vine, You, My Lord Jesus Christ,
    	will be secure and that I may bear much fruit for You.
    	Complete surrender, to You My Lord and My God, is my
    	earnest prayer and desire.
    
    	Father, I come to you humbly and ask You to let the Holy
    	Spirit have complete control over me and my life. All of 
    	my thoughts, each word spoken by my tongue, of my temper,
    	of my attitude and feeling toward my fellow men. In every
    	phase of the work I do, manually and that for Your Honor
    	and Glory, let the Holy Spirit have absolute control over
    	all of my life. Amen.
    
    	Praise, Honor and Glory are Yours, Almighty and Loving
    	Father.
    
    Peace of Jesus,
    
    Mary
    

    Mary,
    
    The prayer you entered is very similar to many of the prayers written
    in A Course in Miracles.  Basically, it is the idea of allowing the
    Holy Spirit to speak thru us.  What the Course does is teach ways of
    enabling us to set aside the 'ego' and surrender to the Holy Spirit.
    
    I would add besides prayer, meditation and practice!  ;')
    
    Ro
    

    RE: .20
    
    Yes,....meditation and practice should be added to prayer.
    
    I entered the prayer because I realize that many people have been
    "burnt" in the past by religions; the Holy Spirit needs to do the
    healing before unity in beliefs can occur. Even if one cannot
    'trust' religions and religious leaders, please have faith and
    trust in God. 
    
    Peace,
    
    Mary
    

    
    		As Mike Warenke has said.." I'm gonna grab two sinners,
    one in each hand, and say repent or I'll drop ya".  :-)
    
    
    Dave

    In case you haven't seen the posters plastered on street signs or
    otherwise heard the news, the Rapture is going to happen on October 28,
    1992.  I just so happens will be moving into a new apartment earlier
    that week; if I had known about the date of the Rapture, I would have
    waited until *after* it occurs to look for a good deal on a place (with
    fewer people around to rent, and with many vacancies suddenly opening
    up, I sure I could have gotten a bargain.)  On the other hand, with so
    many true believers living in Colorado Springs these days, I am sure the
    bottom will drop out of the housing market there for some time after
    they all disappear in the twinkling of an eye, and so maybe in a year
    or so I can move there and find a really cheap place.

    I don't know if there will be time for too many parties after the
    Rapture, since we will be too busy plotting the evil liberal secular
    humanist conspiracy to brand the number 666 on everyone's head and
    establish a One World Government, but I think that it is good to take a
    break from time to time, because it is very hard work doing Satan's
    bidding.  Since there will be a 7 year tribulation after the rapture,
    that means that Armageddon will occur in 1999, which is interesting
    because that suggests that the musician Prince was endowed with
    prophetic powers.  Did he not say that we should "Party like it's
    1999?"  If we plan any post-Rapture parties, we should definitely
    invite him.  We could even make it a theme party, with everyone having
    to drive a red corvette or wear a raspberry beret.

    -- Mike

Mike,

No, I hadn't heard about the 28th.  Who came up with that date for the
Rapture?

				-- Bob

    I honestly don't know, Bob.
    
    -- Mike

    More ridicule of Christianity in the previous replies.

    I place more faith in the Biblical verse that says we know neither the
    day nor the hour, but I respect the beliefs of those whose see the
    signs of the times.

    Yes, you are certainly a font of respect for belief systems other than
    your own, aren't you?
    
    -- Mike

    I respect the sincere religious beliefs of all.

    So does that mean that the views you attack in this notes file you deem
    not to be sincere?
    
    -- Mike

	My father tells me that the president of a radio station in
	New York (Long Island) has written a book that says the 
	rapture will be no later then 1 Oct 1993. However, posters
	pasted on poles in Southern New Hampshire say that it will
	be the 31st of October 1992. If I believed that I'd be tempted 
	to use my vacation time. Though I'm not sure for what.

			Alfred

Note 1329.87
    
>    I'll bring the spinach dip, unless it's peak harvest time.  In that
>    case I'll bring the corn on the cob.  Are you inviting Will?

While it's no secret, I've not gone out of my way to invite Will.  I
tend to doubt that he'd see the divine comic irony of it all.

Richard

2 Peter 3:3  
    Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers,
 walking after their own lusts,
3:4  And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell
 asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
3:5  For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the
 heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
3:6  Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
3:7  But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in
 store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly
 men.
3:8  But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the
 Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
3:9  The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness;
 but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that
 all should come to repentance.
3:10  But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which
 the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt
 with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be
 burned up.
3:11  Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of
 persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
3:12  Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the
 heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with
 fervent heat?
3:13  Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new
 earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
3:14  Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that
 ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
3:15  And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our
 beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written
 unto you;
3:16  As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which
 are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and
 unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own
 destruction.
3:17  Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye
 also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own
 stedfastness.
3:18  But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus
 Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

    .32
    
    Thanks for the caution.  We shall see what we shall see.
    
    And, of course, we'll forgive your future absence.
    
    Richard
    

    Why not schedule the party in heaven instead?  I'm sure it will be much
    more fun! 

    Sorry,
    
    won't be joining the party there.  However, I am sure you won't mind.  

    Well, you're invited nonetheless!!!!