| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 445.1 | | ATSE::FLAHERTY | Wings of fire: Percie and me | Tue Apr 28 1992 17:04 | 44 |
| <<< LGP30::DKA300:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CHRISTIAN-PERSPECTIVE.NOTE;1 >>>
-< Discussions from a Christian Perspective >-
================================================================================
Note 441.84 Religion and cross gendered people 84 of 84
SWAM1::DOTHARD_ST "PLAYTOE" 36 lines 28-APR-1992 15:54
-< It's a Trinity you see... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
re; 79
> Um, what about the 'Peace that passeth all understanding'? I suspect
> that is the type of 'peace' that Allison alludes to.
Perhaps, but previously Allison used the term "harmony" and then used
"peace" as if interchangeable and they are not interchangeable. It's a
misconception for those who believe it is...
> That may be your goal Playtoe, but since you, nor I have, have reached
> total 'enlightenment' (else we wouldn't be here), you can't very well
> tell us what the *TRUE* goal of enlightenment is for everyone!
I said the true goal of enlightenment is Harmony with God, working
together with him...can I tell you that, I just did, WILL YOU RECEIVE
that, it's up to you...but you can't jump on me for telling you that!
Lest I can jump on you for telling me that "harmony" is not the true
goal...we've got to have PEACE, but we don't have to have HARMONY to
both exist in the same plane.
Ro, I'm quite sure of what I say, we can entertain the idea if you
want, and I'm sure you'll agree in the end! *IF* your honest with your
SELF!
JUST to illustrate:
-100%---------------------0-------------------+100%
War Peace Harmony
Hell Earth Heaven
Negative Neutral Positive
Simply equation, from those who bring enlightenment doctrine!
Playtoe
|
| 445.2 | | ATSE::FLAHERTY | Wings of fire: Percie and me | Tue Apr 28 1992 17:11 | 28 |
|
<< JUST to illustrate:
-100%---------------------0-------------------+100%
War Peace Harmony
Hell Earth Heaven
Negative Neutral Positive
Playtoe,
Your illustration looks at this from a dualistic (earth plane) view.
By this I mean, you are labelling as negative/positive that which when
moved beyond duality to enlightement to the oneness where there is no
separation. Perhaps what you are defining as harmony is what I'm
defining as peace. I suspect it is a state that one can't with our
limited thinking but a definition on.
Ro
Simply equation, from those who bring enlightenment doctrine!
Playtoe
|
| 445.3 | | VIDSYS::PARENT | The girl in the mirror | Tue Apr 28 1992 17:48 | 27 |
|
-100%---------------------0-------------------+100%
War Peace Harmony
Hell Earth Heaven
Negative Neutral Positive
A decidedly plannar view. Though the items represented seem out
of balance. It is disturbing as war itself is a planar view and is
used to define itself.
harmony
^
^
forces disturbing--->>>><<<forces within>>> <<<<---forces disturbing
v
v
peace
All forces(energies) are complementary and divergent. The balance
is maintaind by continous movement, it is therefore dynamic.
Eastern religion hold that basic energy ying/yang are harmonious when
inner peace is attained.
Allison
|
| 445.4 | | CSC32::J_CHRISTIE | Peace: the Final Frontier | Tue Apr 28 1992 18:18 | 6 |
| I personally do not see peace as the mere absence of conflict.
Such a connotation equates peace with inactivity, or worse,
passivity.
Peace,
Richard
|
| 445.5 | | SWAM1::DOTHARD_ST | PLAYTOE | Tue Apr 28 1992 21:08 | 8 |
| RE: 0
Did you have to say "POLLUTE"? Sounds like something filthy and nasty
happened in 441! For one who is choicey about word usage, you must
have really been upset!
Anyway...
|
| 445.6 | | SWAM1::DOTHARD_ST | PLAYTOE | Tue Apr 28 1992 21:15 | 13 |
| Re: 2
I didn't understand a work you said...calm down Ro. And note that I
have percent signs on the chart.
Marvin Gaye said it best...War is hell, when will it end, when will
people start gettin together again...What's Going On.
He realizes that War and Harmony is opposite...getting together, is
beyond Peace. If we're at War and come to Peace, then we move toward
Harmony. Atonement....
Playtoe
|
| 445.7 | I LOVE it! | SWAM1::DOTHARD_ST | PLAYTOE | Tue Apr 28 1992 21:40 | 72 |
|
re 3
Very good perception Allison!
That's exactly right
> harmony
> ^
> ^
> forces disturbing--->>>><<<forces within>>> <<<<---forces disturbing
> v
> v
> peace
Except I draw it like this:
Double Positive (++)
+100%
Heaven
harmonious
^
^
Heart/Soul
forces disturbing--->>>><<<forces within>>> <<<<---forces disturbing
Active/Electric PEACE Passive/Magnetic
v
v
Warring
Hell
-100%
Double Negative (--)
It takes two (Double Positive) to make heaven. And it takes two
(Double Negative) to make War.
A wise man once asked his student...See that wise man and the fool
arguing on the hill, can you pick out the fool?
Peace resides within us as babes. Electric and Magnetic, or Active and
Passive forces influence our personality and we either make war or
learn to get along with others...simple.
> All forces(energies) are complementary and divergent. The balance
> is maintaind by continous movement, it is therefore dynamic.
That's exactly right...HARMONIOUS INTERACTION!
> Eastern religion hold that basic energy ying/yang are harmonious when
> inner peace is attained.
THAT'S IT! WHEN INNER PEACE IS ATTAINED, WE ATTAIN HARMONY WITH ALL
THINGS, WE GET ALONG, WORK TOGETHER WITH...
I'm not flaming...I'm just excited.
But, necessarily, when you don't have INNER PEACE, you can't work
together with others, nor with God. And the only thing that causes
confusion/inner turmoil/lack of inner peace, is LACK of the knowledge
of the truth/God/nature/universe/SELF, whatever way you want to look at
it. When you know truth, you don't have to test it, INNER PEACE just
naturally comes...that's what scripture says, "The wisdom that
descendeth from above is first peaceful..."
See how deep down we all just naturally know the truth! But our
imagination carries us away into all sorts of vanity and darkness.
Playteo
|
| 445.8 | | SA1794::SEABURYM | Zen: It's Not What You Think | Tue Apr 28 1992 22:26 | 26 |
|
Re.0
Ro:
Ahh...but we are totally enlightened beings it is just that
we are not usually in touch with this aspect of ourselves. Ya gotta
scrape away a lot of layers of crud to get to the enlightened layer
of our being.
Peace is something you must be. You can't talk about, you can't
graph it or pin in down in some nice neat definition that turns
it into an abstraction.
If you were to ask a Zen teacher of the "old" school to define
peace you would probably get cracked over the head with their
staff and told peace are those stars you see circling your
head.
My comment on peace is the same thing Nike uses to advertise
their athletic shoes:
Just Do It !
Mike
|
| 445.9 | | VIDSYS::PARENT | The girl in the mirror | Tue Apr 28 1992 22:35 | 8 |
|
What can I say, every time I try to get my four dimensional thinking
in to two data get lost.
Me I think these graphs are best if given a half twist and mated at the
ends. You need an extra dimension or two to capture the effect.
Allison
|
| 445.10 | | SWAM1::DOTHARD_ST | PLAYTOE | Wed Apr 29 1992 13:36 | 31 |
| Re: 9
Oh, so now you're in the fourth dimension! Come on...
Three dimensional reality is the best we on this plane can hope to
master. If you don't graduate from here into the fourth, any other way
you enter as a robber and thief.
Let's get back to IDEA of Peace vs Harmony.
This is one of those matters where we can clearly see how culture has
effected our perception of reality. Although we acknowledge the true
reality deep down, our culture has conditioned us to see it otherwise
than what it is...our context is misplaced.
For instance, we know that "harmony" in music is never one note, but
two or more working together harmoniously. Harmony generally denotes
more than one essence or entity working together.
Peace, on the other hand, can be attained by ONE, a peaceful river, a
peaceful heart, a peaceful home, etc...but you cannot speak of
harmony in the singular like this...a harmonious river (?), a
harmonious heart(?), a harmonious home...whenever we think of harmony
or harmonious, we think of two or more things working together. When I
said "harmonious home" the reader immediately thought "Yes there is a
harmonious home", but they conceived of it as a family working
together, right! But when I said "harmonious river", and "harmonious
heart", you searched to understand the notion, and could not find an
answer! Right or wrong...if so please offer it!
Playtoe
|
| 445.11 | | VIDSYS::PARENT | The girl in the mirror | Wed Apr 29 1992 14:26 | 21 |
|
Playtoe,
I was writing only slightly in jest, the humor was apparently lost
by translation.
If you've ever read the story of the flatlanders it would have been
obvious. If I can find it again I may type it in.
If we diagram using planar form, two dimensions, the third dimension
is still visible as depth. So to name the concepts for that plane
I use the quantities named as spheres rather than circles and position
them so they all make contact, that shows their interactions. Going
further, the forth dimension I use is conceptually available to us as
Time, negative would be past, positive is future. At the past end would
be history, experience, learning, and choices made. the positive end
would be faith, karma, plans, new experiences. As time marches on we
can see the model is more dynamic than ever as that is one quantity
that can not held static.
Allison
|