Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    Re: 0
    
    For me, I've stopped wearing "crosses" and "ankhs", or other symbols. 
    At first I use to believe they offered protection, this was the
    "popular" view.  However, upon studies in esoteric ideas, I was
    informed that actually what protected you was the "ideas suggested by
    the symbol" itself.  Like in modern vampire movies, the vampire cringes
    at the sight of a cross...it's not the visible/tangible cross that the
    vampire cannot stand, it's the remembrance of the things associated
    with that symbol, the "crucifiction", etc.  
    
    More recently, however, I stopped wearing the symbol, because I felt it
    tended to detract from my spirituality, in that ANY reliances I placed
    upon the simple fact I was wearing the cross, were so because I
    possibly felt that I lacked the same in my own spirit.  
    
    Symbols are good as a reminders, which is probably the impetus for the
    Vampire affair, but they should never be considered substitutes for the
    real thing...
    
    Playtoe

> 	It's not unusual to see someone wearing a cross or descending dove
anymore simply as an adornment, as an article of jewelry with no religious
significance attached.
    
    How do you know its meaning or lack thereof to the wearer?  Many years
    ago, in another time and place, I used to like to wear them as a 
    devotional reminder to myself,
    though I didn't like to see others wear, for example, a small gold
    cross buried among other gold chains and necklaces.  
    
    But who among us can be sure that whe motive is?
    
    Nancy

Note 412.2

>    But who among us can be sure that whe motive is?
    
Nancy,

	Well, a certain recording artist and film star has made her
feelings about wearing a crucifix quite public.

	Also, I've seen crosses worn in accompaniment by swastikas and a
variety of other symbols which would tend to call into question the sincerity
of the wearer.  This is not to say that there could be no religious motivation,
but to me at least, it sends a mixed message.

Peace,
Richard

     Re.2

     Richard:
             I am sure that a lot of people who wear a cross and a 
            swastika are quite sincere. It is just a matter of what
            it is they sincerely believe that I have trouble with...


                                                               Mike

    I tend not to wear jewelry. Other than my watch about all you'll
    see me wear are cuff links. There are crosses on one pair of those.
    There are bicycles on an other pair. Both have religious significance
    to me. The bicycle pair are a gift to celebrate a bicycle tour of
    Israel. The pair with the crosses were purchased Christmas eve in
    Bethlehem. I wear them as reminders to myself not as a witness
    to others. I prefer to try and show Jesus in my life not in my
    apparel. When I fail in that I'd rather not embarrass Jesus by
    wearing His symbols.

    				Alfred

I have a stylized black and gold cross which hangs suspended from a gold
neckchain.  I used to wear it regularly when on duty as a chaplain.  The
cross was sort of part of the uniform, like the white hospital jacket and
the blue and white badge.

I've had several people comment on this cross as an adornment, remarking
how handsome it is.  And it really is.

I have to keep reminding myself that this cross represents an instrument
of capital punishment; that if Jesus had been born in modern times, we
might be wearing tiny replicas of electric chairs or syringes or cyanide
tablets.  Grizzly thought, eh?

Peace,
Richard

   Richard,
    
>I have to keep reminding myself that this cross represents an instrument
>of capital punishment; that if Jesus had been born in modern times, we
>might be wearing tiny replicas of electric chairs or syringes or cyanide
>tablets.  Grizzly thought, eh?

     I'd have to say that is a grizzly thought. It reminds me of a question
    I once heard asked... If someone you loved (I.E. a son or daughter)
    were killed by a car; would you wear an image of a car as a reminder?
    
                                Robin
Peace,
Richard

    I hear what you are saying about the cross.
    But, in my spiritual journey, I identify with
    the cross in many ways.  The symbol reminds me
    of my journey and my relationship with Him.
    
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             O
    
    I see the vertical piece as God reaching down to me.  
    I see the horizontal piece as God reminding me to share
    that relationship/love/commitment with those around me.
    
          ---O---
    
    I see myself needing to be *grounded* to balance my life
    as a Christian.
    
             O
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    The full symbol reminds me of the process I am living in
    serving my God.  It reminds me too that He was first at that center.
    To me this is a *living cross.*
    
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          ---O---
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    I have grown to *love* the symbol.
    
    
    Doloresx

    For the last six months I have been wearing a chalice which is the
    Unitarian Universalist symbol.  It gives me comfort wearing it and
    reminds me that there is something greater than I that I want to keep
    with me on my daily journeys.
    
    At first I was disappointed because it looks something like a cross. I
    have recently learned that it was designed to look something like the
    cross to reflect that Unitarian Universalism does have Christian roots.
    Some UU's consider themselves Christians while most do not.
    
    Today I recognize that the cross does touch me with its symbolic
    meaning.  In my mind is a picture of a birch bark cross that overlooks
    Lake Winnesquam.  This was the outside chapel of the camp I went to as
    a child.  The cross represents to me the love of the outdoors that the
    camp inspired in me and also more importantly the community of love and
    peace and justice and caring which the camp established.
    
    The camp was a Christian camp and it truly taught me about
    Christianity.  There was no bible study at the camp and only a very
    informal weekly chapel.  There was however lots of love, affirmation,
    acceptance, good times, community.
    
    In my mind, those are the qualities that I will always think about when
    I see the cross.  That is the Christian roots, both in terms of the
    camp and in terms of the philosophy of Jesus, that I want to reconnect
    to.
    
    Pat

    There is an image of the cross that when first observed by me really
    struck my most inner self and has often given me a grounding for
    meditation.  That image, that visual picture, is of a real cross on the
    top of Pine Mountain.  The cross is located at Chapel Rock which is
    part of Horton Center, the NH UCC summer camp and retreat center.  The
    cross is held in place with a piling of rocks surrounding the base of
    the cross and the cross is situated on the outer edge of a rock at
    cliff edge.  Looking from Chapel Rock toward the cross and beyond one
    sees the valley below and the mountains of the Carter Range, a
    magnificent sight - and one cannot help but feel the presence and
    goodness of the Holy One.
    
    And to the side of the cross, lurking in the background, stands a
    withered old tree, white with age as many years have gone by since the
    bark has left its protective coating on that tree; the tree stands
    shaped like a cross with blisters and bumps protruding from what was at
    one time the meat of the tree.  The vision of this tree cannot escape
    one's eyes as one looks on at the cross.  The two trees, one
    symbolizing God's love, God's strength, God's statement of Hope for all
    of us; the other tree symbolizing for me the brokenness, the Evil, the
    temptations, the dark side.
    
    And so the cross exists - and so does the tree lurking in the
    background.  May God help us to understand and act on God's vision for
    humanity, for all that is and all that is meant to be.
    
    	Shalom,
    
    	Ron
    
    ps: I took a picture of the cross and the tree and the valley several 
        years ago and had the picture enlarged.  It was taken during an
        October morning with the mist rising into nothingness.  It reminds
        me that just as I know there is stuff beyond the mist, so too is
        God's love for us present in such a way that we know something is
        beyond our vision at any moment in our lives.  Thanks be to God!
    

    Ron,
    
    I can really relate to your description of the cross on Pine Mountain. 
    Do they have sunrise service's there at Eastertime?
    
    
    
    Pat

re (.-1)

Hmmmm, probably not as the center doesn't "officially" open until
Memorial DAy weekend (a great time for people from all over the
state to come to work together, to pray together, to enjoy each
other's company - and of course to make the pilgrimmage to
Chapel Rock).

Of course, if one is ambitious and can get through the mudseasoned
roads leading to the bottom of Pine Mountain, it is only a "short"
hike (2.2 miles) to the top.  Of course, if you're thinking about
a Sunrise Service - you'll have to begin a wee bit early in the
morning - or maybe, if you're as out of condition as I am, you
better get a start just a "few" minutes earlier!

What great memories this note is bringing me!

	Shalom,

	Ron

    re: .7
    
    It's true that the cross "represents an instrument of capital
    punishment" like an electric chair.  But no one has risen from
    an electric chair or from death caused by car accident!
    
    Wearing a cross as a personal reminder can be, at times, a reminder
    of Jesus' sacrificial death and, at other times, a reminder of his
    victory over death!  No other "death symbol" is also simultaneously
    a victory symbol!
    
    Nancy

    
  Nancy,            re: .13
 
    >Wearing a cross as a personal reminder can be, at times, a reminder
    >of Jesus' sacrificial death and, at other times, a reminder of his
    >victory over death!  No other "death symbol" is also simultaneously
    >a victory symbol!
    
    I'm afraid I don't follow your line of reasoning. Here Jesus was
    executed based on false charges and you wear a replica of the
    instrument of his execution to remember what he accomplished? What's
    wrong with remembering Jesus as a person/individual? The same as you
    might remember a loved one that has died. You remember them and what
    they accomplished in your mind from what you did with them, their
    actions etc. With Jesus we, today, didn't have the opportunity to 
    physically see or have experiences with Jesus but we can still come 
    to know him and his father through the accounts in the Bible. We have
    God's word, which we should read regularly, to remind us of what
    Jesus's sacrifice meant for all mankind.
     I don't want to go into a lot of detail here re: the history of the cross
    or crosses of different designs used to symobize many different Gods;
    or the Bible's commands regarding images but these factors also keep
    me far from wanting to wear a cross.
                                              Robin

re: Note 412.13 by Nancy "rises up with eagle wings" 

>                      -< More than an execution symbol! >-

That's one major difference I've always heard between a cross and a crucifix.

A crucifix, with an image of our Lord nailed thereupon points more to the 
execution, which was horribly gruesome, yet Jesus accepted it willingly, with
his eyes open. 

However, a cross is empty:  He is Risen!  Death is conquered.

Peace,

Jim

    re: .14
    
    Jim Kirk's reply in .15 explains what I'm trying to say.
    
    It's a personal thing; I certainly don't expect everyone else
    to agree with me or to want to wear a cross.  In fact, I no longer
    wear one, but was explaining why it was meaningful *to me* during
    the period of time when I did.  Perhaps I will want to again some day.