Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    
    RE: .40,.41,.42
    
    The Spirit and the Will are polarities of each other.  They find 
    balance in the Heart and express through the Body.  What we are
    experiencing in the world today (and from the beginning) is an
    imbalance between Spirit and Will.  Therefore, there is not much
    Heart presence here and Body suffers.
    
    Carole

    Carole,
    
    Not sure if this fits in with the interpretation of the book you are
    reading, but it is written in "The Song of Prayer," an extension of A
    Course in Miracles:
    
    	This is what death should be; a quiet choice, made joyfully
    	and with a sense of peace, because the body has been kindly used
    	to help the Son (Daughter) of God along the way he/she goes to God.
    	We thank the body, then, for all the service it has given us.
    	But we are thankful, too, the need is done to walk the world of
    	limits, and to reach the Christ in hidden form and clearly seen
    	at most in lovely flahses.  Now we can behold Him without blinders,
    	in the light that we have learned to look upon again.
    
    	We call it death, but it is liberty.  It does not come in forms
    	that seem to be thrust down in pain upon unwilling flesh, but as
    	a gentle welcome to release.  If there has been true healing,
    	this can be the form in which death comes when it is time to
    	rest a while from labor gladly done and gladly ended.  Now we
    	go in peace to freer air nd gentler climate, where it is not
    	hard to see the gifts we have were saved for us.  For Christ is
    	clearer now; His vision more sustained in us; His voice, the
    	word of God, more certainly our own.
    
    	This gentle passage to a higher prayer, a kind forgiveness of
    	the ways of earth, can only be received with thankfulness.
    
    
    Ro
    

    
    
    Ok Roey.....give me a little time to put these ideas into form
    to post here.  May not be today, however.
    
    Carole

Note 405.2

>    The Spirit and the Will are polarities of each other.

When the Spirit is not in sync with the (free) Will, is this sometimes
perceived as a rebeliousness on the part of the (free) Will?

Are there implications here for Christians concerning living "in the
flesh (or creature)" and "living in the Spirit"?

I'm trying to make the connection between the topic at hand and Christianity.
After all, that is the premise of the conference.

Peace,
Richard

    Richard,
    
    I'm sure that Carole can explain this better than I (I only read one of
    the books in the series she's referencing), however, I do know that
    Heart represents/is Jesus the Son of God in the book.  Therefore, I
    would say the books definitely have to do with Christ/Christianity.
    
    Ro
    

    Re: .3
    
    Ro,
    
    	Did you "inclusify" the quote you used?  My spouse, Sharon, has
    been reading A Course in Miracles and its language is definately not
    inclusive.
    
    Peace,
    Richard

	RE: .4 Richard
    
    
>>    The Spirit and the Will are polarities of each other.

>When the Spirit is not in sync with the (free) Will, is this sometimes
>perceived as a rebeliousness on the part of the (free) Will?

    Actually the imbalance between the Spirit and the Will is the
    result of denial of the Will by Spirit.  This denial has caused
    parts of the Will to become 'lost'.  Because of the separation,
    the Will has not evolved along with the Spirit and incredible
    emotional charge has built up.  Not much Light reaches these
    Will parts.  This lost Will needs to be lovingly accepted so that 
    it can release this very old emotional charge and begin a healthy
    expression.
    
>Are there implications here for Christians concerning living "in the
>flesh (or creature)" and "living in the Spirit"?

    I see the implication being a need to no longer cut off parts of
    ourselves and focus only on the Spirit.  Focusing on the Spirit
    may feel nice and look nice, but there are parts of ourselves
    that are suffering tremendously from this lack of balance.
    
>I'm trying to make the connection between the topic at hand and Christianity.
>After all, that is the premise of the conference.

    This surprised me a little Richard, and is the first time I've seen
    you raise this question here.  I'll be very happy not to pursue this
    discussion if it's deemed not appropriate for this file.
    
    
    Carole

    Hi Richard (.6),
    
    <<	Did you "inclusify" the quote you used?  My spouse, Sharon, has
    been reading A Course in Miracles and its language is definately not
    inclusive.
    
    I don't understand what you mean 'inclusify'?  Do you mean because
    the name Christ is used?  Does that indicate inclusivity to you?  
    
    If so, then perhaps you are perceiving it far differently from the way
    the Course defines Christ.  The Course talks about there only being one
    Son of God and that we are all cells in the body of Christ, we are all
    part of the Sonship (as was Jesus) whether we are a 'Christian' or not. 
    It refers to the Universal Christ Consciousness.
    
    How does Sharon like ACIM?  How long has she been studying it?  I've
    been a student of the course for about four years and would really be
    interested in Sharon's impressions.  A couple who I am very close to
    have been studying ACIM for 10 years.  They are in their 80's and he is
    a retired minister.  They feel the Course has changed their lives and
    see no conflict with Christianity and in fact find it gives deeper
    insight into their faith.
    
    Richard, have you had a chance to read any of ACIM over your wife's
    shoulder?  ;')  Love to hear your thoughts too.  From my observations,
    people are either called to it or completely rebel against it.
    
    The quote I used came from a quote in the book Return to Love,
    Reflections on the Principles of A Course in Miracles.  I'm not really
    sure what she means by an 'extension' of ACIM.
    
    Love,
    
    Ro
    

    Ooooops, Richard it just dawned on me that you meant did I add the word
    daughter.  Yup, I did.  ;')
    
    Sorry about that (blush), you can disregard my previous note!  8^)
    'cept I'd still like you to share Sharon and your impressions of ACIM.
    
    Roey
    

Note 405.7

>    This surprised me a little Richard, and is the first time I've seen
>    you raise this question here.  I'll be very happy not to pursue this
>    discussion if it's deemed not appropriate for this file.
    
Carole,

	On the contrary, I believe it is appropriate.  I just wanted to
establish that early on.  Thanks, Carole.

Peace,
Richard

Note 405.8

>    I don't understand what you mean 'inclusify'?  Do you mean because
>    the name Christ is used?  Does that indicate inclusivity to you?  

By "inclusify" I mean use 'he/she' instead of using just 'he'.  I noticed
_A Course in Miracles_ invariably spoke of God as masculine terms.

>    How does Sharon like ACIM?  How long has she been studying it?

Yes, she did like it.  She didn't study it in the prescribed manner, but
read it through over a period of several weeks.  Her only negative criticisms
were that ACIM downplayed the significance of dreams, and that for every
assertion ACIM made it seemed to also contain a corresponding counter-
assertion later on in the book.

>    Richard, have you had a chance to read any of ACIM over your wife's
>    shoulder?  ;')  Love to hear your thoughts too.  From my observations,
>    people are either called to it or completely rebel against it.
    
And one fine shoulder it is, too! ;-}

Frankly, I'm not sold on ACIM, but I am willing to listen. :-)

Peace,
Richard

    Richard,
    
    The Course is difficult to undertake or even understand for that
    matter.  It involves a shift in perception which enables one to focus
    on Love instead of fear.  I'm surprised Sharon could get through it in
    such a short amount of time.  I often recommend to people interested in
    ACIM to read Course inspired books first, like Gerry Jampolsky's books
    - specifically Love is Letting Go of Fear, or Hugh Prather's books, or
    Louise Hay's books, and some others.  I highly recommend Marianne
    Williamson's book A Return to Love.  Would love to buy 1000 copies to
    gives away as Oprah did, unfortunately I could currently only afford
    three!  ;')  I'll have to wait till it comes out in paperback to buy
    more.  8^)
    
    To me the course truly amplifies the message of Jesus and teaches a
    method to practice living as he did.
    
    Ro
    

    Re Carole's comments
    
    Carole, I am very much pleased and in agreement with your
    interpretation.  I think you are well in the ball park.
    
    In my own way of describing this phenomenon.  The Spirit is from God,
    is a positive/active force, promoting the progressive development, the
    evolutionary growth, the increase and maturation of the human being. 
    As such, the human being is blessed with a Mind of their own, which has
    the attribute of Will, which is a negative/passive force...as it is
    written "My spirit will bear witness with your spirit..." and again, "ask
    and I will come in and sup with you"...our spirit is our Mind/Will.  
    
    When the Mind/Will of Man is not conducive to the evolving/growing
    forces of spirit of God within us, the connection is not made...as Paul
    said, "do not GRIEVE the Holy Spirit."  Life is generated by the
    interaction of opposing forces, positive and negative.  Essentially,
    there's nothing one can proactively do to facilitate the development,
    for it all happens by "grace".  However, there are things we do which
    hinder and/or prevent the natural/graceful development of life.  For
    instance, the earth and life on earth, developed and matured and
    replenishes itself, naturally and gracefully, on its own without man's
    or any other beings intervention--for millions of years this has been
    the case.  However, when Man began to take "proactive" steps towards
    assisting in the development of life (ie I'm going to do this or that
    to make/compel the proper development of life; which includes anything
    from plant fertilizers to human vitamins) things began to go wrong in
    the process of development, the "spirit was grieved". 
    
    The mystery of transformation and reincarnation is incomprehensible, in
    terms of one being able to express the exact condition and whereabouts
    of the spirit at death when the spirit is underdeveloped, or
    undeveloped, or even almost mature (the untimely death)...however,
    "Abraham was called a friend of God becaused he BELIEVED God, and it
    was counted unto him for RIGHTEOUSNESS".  So we are asked to do certain
    things, more accurately to allow certain things to be and exist, by
    God or men who know, or were inspired by God to express his Will.
    
    Anyway, its like the "Neverending Story".
    
    Playtoe