Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

I participated as a candidate in a Cursillo weekend a few years ago 
and very recently participated as a team member.

I will be more than happy to try to answer any specific questions you 
may have.

Now, for a broad description...

First, Cursillo does NOT consist entirely or primarily of the 
occasional three-day weekends.  The weekend is an introduction to a 
lifelong process of spiritual growth and service, which may be aided 
by elements of the Cursillo movement.  An example is "group reunion", 
which is a typically weekly meeting of a small group of individuals 
for sharing, encouragement and prayer and to promote accountability.

Although the weekend is the usual introduction to the movement, one 
does not have to first participate in the weekend to become involved 
in these other activities.

More about the weekend:  It is a short course on living the Christian 
life, on Christian growth and service.  Most people find it rewarding, 
many people are truely changed by it.  Go expecting to enjoy the 
weekend.  It is intensive but not "high stress".  Relax, listen, 
participate.

De Colores!

Dick

Re: .0

Bob,

	I happened to cross paths today with Cal Hoe, a former member of the
C-P Noting community, in the building where my dentist has his office.

	He was still glowing from his Crusillo experience of several weeks
ago.  I told him you'd asked about Crusillo in the notesfile, wanting to know
more about it before signing up.

	Cal was reluctant to give anything more than it was an experience
designed to deepen one's commitment to Christ and to service through your
particular church.  There is a sense that telling the uninitiated too much
might spoil the experience.

	Cal said that the movement was started by the Roman Catholic Church
in Spain in the 1950's.  It was later adopted by the Episcopalians and the
Anglicans.  Now, according to Cal, several other denominations offer the
Crusillo experience; United Methodists and Presbyterians were two he named.
(Crusillo appears to have a history which, in some respects, parallels Marriage
Encounter.)

Peace,
Richard

Bob,

I, too, have an aversion to secrets and secretive organizations.
The Ku Klux Klan, Ollie North, and the less than scrupulous
covert operations of our own CIA immediately come to mind.

I believe that secrets are one of the elements that help keep
dysfunctional families dysfunctional.

Cal didn't give me enough to entice me to pursue Crusillo either.

Peace,
Richard

re Note 268.2 by CSC32::J_CHRISTIE:

> 	Cal was reluctant to give anything more than it was an experience
> designed to deepen one's commitment to Christ and to service through your
> particular church.  There is a sense that telling the uninitiated too much
> might spoil the experience.
  
        Yes, but why would one then choose it over any other
        "experience designed to deepen one's commitment to Christ and
        to service"  (such as taking a hike in the mountains, or
        working on a community service project, either of which would
        do the same for me -- this is a sincere question, by the way: 
        like everyone, my time is limited, and I must make choices as
        to how to use it).

        I guess I also have this aversion to secretive organizations
        -- this reluctance to talk about itself to "outsiders" is a
        major turn-off for me.  I have always tried to avoid
        situations like that.

        In a way, I'm feeling that I'm being a bit unfair to what is
        probably, and by all accounts, a fine Christian organization. 
        I am clearly writing and reacting in ignorance.  But it is an
        ignorance that they apparently deliberately foster, so they
        own the blame for it.

        Dick Day, perhaps you have more to add to this?  You wrote
        "First, Cursillo does NOT consist entirely or primarily of
        the  occasional three-day weekends. ... Although the weekend
        is the usual introduction to the movement, one  does not have
        to first participate in the weekend to become involved  in
        these other activities."  I assume this is true, but no one
        whom I have contacted before has offered it!

        Bob

    I went to on Cursillo weekend, and I did not enjoy it or benefit
    from it at all. In fact, it is one of the strangest experiences I've
    ever had. You couldn't have any private time away from
    the group. This was true even though the activities were
    not necessarily spiritual, for example, a performance
    by an amateur comedian. I left to go to the chapel during this,
    and I was not permitted to do so. I thought they were selling
    Jesus, and I wanted to tell them he is his own best advertisement.
    I wrote them a letter afterwards, but I received no reply.
    
    
    Eileen

Note 268.5

Eileen,

	Welcome to C-P!

	Yes, regrettably these occasions do not always turn out the way
it is hoped they will.

	I know in Marriage Encounter there are couples who "walk off" the
weekend.  A lot of the format, that is, the regimented structure of the
weekend, is foreign to most of the participants.  I have to admit that
my initial impulse was to rebel against it.

Peace,
Richard

    Thanks, Richard. Your name has several positive associations for
    me in =wn=. Nanci VanFleet told me about C-P about last fall, and
    it is definitely the place for me. The inspiration note is 
    marvelous! I've printed out several excerpts from it.
    
    Eileen

It is certainly true that not all people profit from a Cursillo
weekend equally, and -- Eileen's experience is an example -- some may
not find it valuable at all.  Not all people are the same and not all
weekends are the same.  Eileen:  I would be very interested in hearing
more about the performance by a comedian and such things.  It sounds like 
your weekend was quite different from the weekends (two) that I have 
experienced. 

The weekends are structured and some people have difficulty with the 
degree of structure.  But there is also free time.  And if one has 
difficulty with some aspect of the structure, he or she should say so and 
ought to be accomodated.  (Here, again, my experience is different 
from Eileen's.)  Compared to Marriage Encounter, I would say, 
from my personal experience, that Cursillo is more relaxed (i.e., less 
demanding in the sense of structuring your time).  BTW, I understand 
that Marriage Encounter is actually a spin-off of Cursillo.  However, 
if you happened to participate in but did not like, agree with, or 
benefit from Marriage Encounter, don't write off Cursillo. They are quite 
different experiences.

The structuring of Cursillo, as with Marriage Encounter, is intended 
not just to keep things organized but also to help one let go of one's 
regular routine and concerns, and concentrate on the present moment.  
As in Marriage Encounter, people are asked to not wear their watches.  
(I had trouble with that because it involves giving up control.  "What 
sort of trick is this to manipulate my mind?"  But in fact, it turned 
out to be a minor and probably helpful thing.  And if someone has a 
real need to keep track of time, they will -- according to my 
experience -- be accomodated.)

Now, the "secret society" thing:  Cursillo is emphatically not that
but does seem to give that impression.  I got it myself when I was
invited to a weekend, enough to feel considerable reluctance to
attend.  Of course I got the impression from the apparent reluctance
of my sponsor to go into every detail.  In part, that reluctance is
due to the fact that the weekend comprises three very full days in
which a lot is covered, and I think there is a feeling that it's
better to just have someone experience it all than try to describe it.
However, there are some summaries that a sponsor can hand out that
cover the weekend quite well.  The other reason is that there are some
aspects of the weekend -- and I don't think I'm giving anything away
here -- that are meant to surprise in a very positive "Christmas 
Morning" way.  There is absolutely no intent to exclude anyone, no 
secret handshakes, no secret knowledge, no conspiracies, no intent to 
form a clandestine sect.  Regrettably, an innocent desire and effort 
to enhance an experience in the same way any of us will hide a gift to 
a loved one until the intended occasion comes about, has resulted in 
a greatly undesired impression.  And I reitterate that one does not 
need to first attend a weekend to be involved in the Cursillo 
movement.

I will post a list of upcoming meetings in the southern New Hampshire Area 
for all who are interested.  These meetings are called "Ultreas".  
They involve aspects of the three-day experience, but in just an 
afternoon or evening.  They are open to everyone.

I hope that what I have been able to add here is helpful.

Dick

Dick,

	Good to see you here, as always.

	My spouse and I have not written off Marriage Encounter.  In fact,
we've been on 4 Marriage Encounter weekends (2 United Methodist, 1 Roman
Catholic, 1 Lutheran).  We found each one to be a valuable experience.  (See
Note 116.0)

	At the same time, I realize that not all variables can be contained.

	We encouraged one couple we know to go on a weekend and it turned out
to be quite a negative experience for them.

Peace,
Richard

    Eileen,
    
    	Thanks for the positive remarks!
    
    :-)
    Richard

I've signed up for "EXCEL in the Rockies," which, I am told, is modeled
after the Crusillo experience.

I'll let you know what it's like.  It's scheduled for late March.

Peace,
Richard

		Let me tell you a little about the EXCEL weekend from
	which I just returned.

		First of all, as I understand it, EXCEL is modeled after
	the Crusillo experience, which arose from the same Spanish Catholic
	roots as Marriage Encounter.

		The weekend was held at the Lions Club Camp above Woodland
	Park, Colorado.  The camp is supposed to be handicap accessible,
	but it really isn't.  There is one extra wide stall in one of the
	restrooms and no threshold on the shower floor.  And that's about
	it.  Oh, yeah.  Someone told me of a ramp to one of the bunkhouses,
	but that in order to get to the ramp, you first had to get up a step.

		About a third of the activities took place in the downstairs
	of the conference center, and the other 2/3, including meals, were
	upstairs.  In order for me to traverse between the two levels, I had
	to go outside and take the gravel driveway, which is okay as long as
	it doesn't get dark, become cold or snow -- all 3 of which, it did.
	Sliding downhill in slushy snow can be a most unnerving experience,
	even when you have two strong escorts trying to keep your wheelchair
	from drifting off the path entirely.  My sleeping quarters were also
	located downstairs.

		I couldn't shave myself and could only marginally comb my own
	hair.  None of the mirrors in any of the restrooms were set at my eye
	level.

		On the up side, the two men who volunteered to serve as my
	personal care assistants for the weekend were fantastic.  Both were
	(and are) health care professionals.  And these two gave me TLC to
	a degree which I am unaccustomed.

		Over 60 people attended this particular EXCEL weekend.  Of
	those 60, only 2 were straight; a woman in her 50's (I'm guessing)
	and myself.  I met some wonderful sisters and brothers in Christ,
	some who had traveled from as far away as California and Omaha,
	Nebraska, just to be there.

		The weekend was rich with music, worship, self-examination
	and spiritual growth.  I would say that the Crusillo experience is,
	in essence, a systematic re-examination of the direction and priorities
	of one's life, but that it's all done in such a way that it doesn't
	become burdensome or guilt-inducing.  I'm still on a bit of an
	emotional "high" from it all.

		Was it worthwhile?  Yes, I'd say so.  Would I do it again?
	I don't know.

	Peace,
	Richard