Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

Alfred,

You might like to read psalms 73 "A Psalm of Asaph". Verses 1-3 RSV reads
"TRULY God is good to the upright, to those who are pure in heart. But as
for me, my feet had almost stumbled, my steps had well nigh slipped. For I 
was envious of the arrogant, when I saw the prosperity of the wicked." .
So Asaph had a similar viewpoint until he reasoned differently, see verses
16,17.

; Why does so much good happen to bad people?

It does seem unfair, but this is understandable when we realise whose system
we are living in. For Satan is spoken of as being the "god of this world" so
this unfairness is to be expected. (2 Corinth 4:4)

However, there is a promise for those who keep the way of Jehovah God, see
Psalms 37:34. When the "god of this world" will be abyssed Revelation 20:2,3.

Phil.

    Depends on how you define "Good Things" I guess.
    
    Mike

    Alfred,
    
    	I think Jesus said it rather well: "God makes the sun to shine on
    bad and good people alike, and gives rain to those who do good and
    to those who do evil."  (Matthew 5.45)
    
    	Jesus then uses this as an example of how we, as God's children, are
    to treat others.
    
    Peace,
    Richard

    I personally derived much from Rabbi Kushner's book, "Why Bad Things
    Happen to Good People."  The book answers the converse question, as
    well.
    
    Some who feel compelled to protect God's image as omnipotent find
    themselves at odds with the book.
    
    Peace,
    Richard

	"God will sort them out when He's ready!"

    RE:-1
    Richard,
           that's one of the problems I had with book. If I remember
    correctly, Rabbi Kurshner's summed up that God had no control over
    nature and as a result he can not stop bad things from happening.
    So God must  not be omnipotent.

    Well, this goes against the gospel, where Jesus cures the sick, calms
    the violent sea, and feeds 5k people. It also goes against the physical
    healing of people I know as well as my own son's. To me God does have
    control of things and is omnipotent.

    I sensed a lack of faith on the part of Rabbi Kurshner when I read the
    book. Perhaps I misinterpreted him, but it seemed more of a
    rationalization of his, as a result of the loss of his son.

    Of course my way of thinking still leaves the question begging.
    Why do bad things happen to good people ? 

    Peace
    Jim

    I agree with Kushner that God is not omnipotent.
    
    -- Mike

For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom and the
weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.

-----

We indeed look and act like fools when we trust in our own reasoning (which
doesn't satisfy!) instead of what God has declared.

Collis

Re: .8 Collis

>We indeed look and act like fools when we trust in our own reasoning (which
>doesn't satisfy!) instead of what God has declared.

Actually the feeling is somewhat reciprocal: you'll look like a fool to some
people when you trust your own reasoning and you'll look like a fool to others
when you *don't* trust your own reasoning.  Personslly I try not to worry
about what other people think about me; I do what I think is right.

				-- Bob

    A God who is not omnipotent is (by my definition) not God.

    		Alfred

    Omnipotence is clearly part of most people's conception of God, but I
    strongly disagree that this attribute is inherent to the definition of
    divinity.  In fact, I would say that omnipotence is inherently *not* a
    part of the Divine nature.  But that gets into a whole other issue.

    By the way, the critique of the doctrine of omnipotence is an important
    aspect of process theology, and anyone who is interested might want to
    take a look at Charles Hartshorne's book, "Omnipotence and Other
    Theological Mistakes", for more information.

    -- Mike

Not in the entire book, "Why Bad Things Happen to Good People," does Kushner
state that he believes God to be anything other than omnipotent.

Rather, it is more likely that our human understanding is too frail, too
fragile, and too finite to comprehend the true nature of Divine omnipotence.

Peace,
Richard

    Richard,
    
    It was my impression that Kushner was arguing pretty strongly in "Who
    Needs God" that God is not omnipotent.  Of course, I could be mistaken. 
    I'll have to take another look at the book tonight.
    
    -- Mike

    -- Mike
    
    I've not read, "Who Needs God."  Indeed, I may be in error.
    
    My point in .12 is kind of a "turning of the tables" on the arguement
    concerning the nature of a loving and benevolent God.
    
    Peace,
    Richard

    Richard, after perusing "Who Needs God" last night, I believe that you
    are correct.  I could not, at least at first glance, find any place
    where he actually says that God is not omnipotent.  What he does say,
    particularly in his chapter on prayer, is that God does not intervene
    in nature, and that God cannot be finagled or cajoled by prayer to do
    our bidding.  I agree with Kushner on these points.  However, perhaps
    he believes that God is omnipotent, but that this omnipotence
    manifests itself in a different way.

    -- Mike

Re: .15

-- Mike,

	Thanks for looking into that.

	I suspect that misunderstandings about the nature of Divine omnipotence
have led to such cynical conjectures as:

		"God is not dead; merely apathetic!"

Peace,
Richard

    I struggled with this whole issue for a long time.  I reasoned that if
    God is omnipotent and can do anything, why doesn't he save the poor
    children that are being abused?  Why can't he stop crime? And on and
    on...  I read a book and right now I can't remember the title, but what 
    I got out of it was that I needed to ask God to help me.  I need to ask
    God not for what I want, but for His guidance and wisdom and to have
    faith in His results, not mine.  The message was that I would have to
    ask first before He could help me.  Does anyone have Scripture that
    might back this up?  In the meantime I will look for the book.
    
    Karen  

    RE:-1

    Seek first his kingship over you, his way of holiness, and all these
    things will be given you besides. Matthew 6:34


    God is the source of all we seek. 

    Peace
    Jim