Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

     Playtoe:
              I have read articles and books that suggest that certain
            sections of the Bible describe encounters with UFO's and
            extraterrestrials. I would agree that to primitive people
            an encounter with technologically advanced beings would
            be so overwhelming that they might believe that what they
            saw was supernatural in origin.
              I was unaware that there were churches that recognized
            such things as part of there doctrine. I'd be interested
            in info about this or pointers to it in other conferences.
              I'd also be interested in your opinions on the subject
            and what you may have learned about it.
              Personally I've never seen a UFO or had and encounter
            with an extraterrestrial, but I do not dismiss the possibility
            of such things. After all it is a BIG ! universe and we only
            have knowledge of a very tiny fraction of it.

                                                               Mike

    I'm glad you brought this subject up Playtoe.  I have not studied or
    read up on it myself, but I'd be interested in hearing what you and
    others have found.
    
    Thanks,
    Karen

	Actually, Playtoe, I consider this to be a topic worth exploring.

	A friend of mine, now deceased, once gave a fascinating correlation
between the visions of Ezekiel and the vivid imagery of the lift-off sequence
of the Gemini space missions.

Richard

    RE: base note
    
                    Like Richard, I would *love* to know exactly what it
    was Ezekiel saw.  I don't think that Eric Von Danakin had it right.
    
    
    Dave

    
    Ok here goes...
    
    First, let me say if you plan to disagree, and get vehemently upset
    with me for saying these things, 1)you need to refute me with
    reasoning, 2)vehemently denial has never refuted any idea or belief.
    
    Secondly, I have studied the bible well, and only recently become
    interested in books or info on UFO's, so I'm new to this
    perception...but I'm pretty much a believer now, though I've never seen
    or been contacted by beings from other worlds...but I might have been.
    But to make the correspondences I'm about to bring out, and for anyone
    to refute them, it is necessary for you to have studied both the bible
    and information concerning UFO's and the Beings that operate them...one
    without the other is no good.  Just because the bible doesn't
    "specifically say" something doesn't mean it's not implied, and unless
    you've learned something about what people are saying about UFO's and
    contacts you really can't make the correspondence, nor refute them...
    
    So in that light here's a few for starters...
    
    1)	Jesus said "In my father's house there are many mansions, if this
    were not so I wouldn't tell you this, I go to prepare a place for you
    that where I am ye may be also."  Then, when he left it is written that
    he floated up into the clouds and disappeared.  The disciples stood
    gazing up after him and two angels appeared and basically, told them to
    stop looking up in the clouds he'll be coming back the same way.
    
    	a)	It is clear that the place being prepared for "US" is not
    on this planet, as Jesus disappeared up into the clouds, heading out
    into space.  Does anyone have any idea where he could have been going? 
    And why not to another planet?
    
    	b)	"Transfiguration" is the name of book I recently purchased
    and read, by Whitley Strieber, regarding his personal experiences with
    whom he calls the "Visitors".  He said, that they shine this light in
    your eyes and you're changed on a molecular level into an
    electromagnetic/astral energy form, at which time you are able to enter
    their crafts and travel with them.  Jesus' "Transfiguration on the
    Mount" is representative of the condition that is described by Mr.
    Strieber when he was changed/"Transfigured".
    
    	c)	Mr. Strieber, says that those who believe or are open can
    see the light and be transformed, but those who do not believe are
    "blinded" by the light, or experience severe headaches and are thereby
    enabled.  Saul/Paul "on the road to Damascus" is representative if
    this.  Also the "voice in/of the light" which spoke to Saul is also
    something that is described by contactees.
    
    	d)	The Visitors, says Mr. Strieber, are "REAL", but
    "non-physical", and exist in the "electromagnetic/astral" form.  They
    primarily deal with us on a "soul-ar" or sub/unconscious level,
    speaking into our minds and hearts, sounding as if you had a "built in
    radio speaker" in your head.  This suggests to me "all the prophets"
    and the whole bible was there doing, as it is written "holy men spake
    as they were moved by the spirit of God."  We often speculate as to
    what and how "inspiration of God" occurs such that men are able to
    speak or think such long and invoked books like the books of Moses,
    this would surely explain it.
    
    More to come...
    
    
    Playtoe

Interesting topic, Playtoe!

Years ago I read a book, (_The Spaceships of Ezekiel_?) whose author was
apparently a NASA engineer specializing in the design of atmospheric landing 
crafts.  His perspective was that the descriptions were amazingly perceptive 
for describing a technology that was totally unknown.  I remember him 
dissecting the grammar of passages to explain that when the author said for 
instance "it shown like fire", it *wasn't* fire, but that was the closest 
analogy a person at that level of technological development could reasonably 
make, with the full realization that they were making an analogy.

His conclusions, based on his interpretations of the book of Ezekiel and his 
purported engineering expertise was that the author described a very plausible 
craft.  In fact I think he may have applied for several patents based on his 
understanding of the account.

I think it was author Robert Heinlein who said "any sufficiently advanced
technology is indistinguishable from magic".  I generally agree with that, but 
there is a certain risk to try and explain away everything one doesn't 
understand or seem miraculous as "higher technology".  (The burning bush that 
was not consumed:  a helicopter with a powerful spotlight?  A column of smoke 
by day and a pillar of fire by night:  ever see day and night missile 
launches?...)

I do believe that ours is not the only inhabited planet in this universe.
After all, the universe is rather mind-numbingly big.  (I recently finished 
Heinz Pagels' book _Perfect Symmetry_ on the origin of the universe (up until 
some 10e-34 seconds after the "Big Bang".)  Apparently some recent 
astronomical models and observations lend credence to the idea that almost ALL 
stars are either stellar binaries or have planetary systems, so that's a LOT 
of possible planets and chances for life, (especially if one believes in 
molecular evolution as a means of carrying out God's plan).

Alas it is the same vastness of the universe that so separates us from 
contact.  Of course, there may be some apparently magical technology that we 
can't yet fathom, but relativity and the relationship of mass and energy still 
seem to be on very firm footing, and suggest that such interstellar is 
extremely unlikely, so, what are we to make of sightings and claimed contacts?

I do not know.  I do know that several years ago I was driving to work, I'd 
left at my usual time, I remember seeing my clock/radio and watch, and the 
level of traffic was what one would expect driving to Maynard at 8 a.m.  As 
I rounded a curve in Stow, I noticed that there was suddenly precious little
traffic, and I arrived at work at 10:15, two hours late!  When I got back home
that night, I checked my clock/radio, running fine and had the correct time,
but I seemed to have lost two hours...(true story, and please, supportive
responses only, thanks)  I've never felt any strong urge to explore those
hours. 

Anyway, thanks for the topic and info, Playtoe.

Peace,

Jim

p.s.  Seeing as how extraterrestials figure big, does anybody know anything 
about "Bob" and the "Church of the SubGenius"?  Is it simply an elaborate 
hoax, or are those folks serious?  (Weird, but serious?  .-)  Thanks.

    RE: 1
    
    Mike:
    
>              I was unaware that there were churches that recognized
>            such things as part of there doctrine. I'd be interested
>            in info about this or pointers to it in other conferences.
    
    One church is:
    
    The Brotherhood of Magnetic Light, is a nonsecular, non-profit
    organization which is dedicated to revealing the truth of psychic
    evolution and the transformation of mankind.
    
    P.O. Box 1021, Fremont, CA 94538  (213) 913-9412
    
    There's also one in Wisconsin, called WICCA, mentioned in Whitley
    Schrieber's Transformation.
    
    Playtoe