Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

	I get the idea that most people think that cults swallow people
whole and that the people who join a cult are never heard from again.  Not
true.  Most cults suffer from a very high turnover rate.

	There are basically five areas which determine whether people
are likely to leave a cult or not.  The following is a brief overview of
these five areas.

	A cult will retain or lose its recruits proportionately to
how successful the cult is in:

o  Controlling the time, attention and social life of the individual.
   Isolation from 'contaminating doctrines' and the choices the outside
   world offers is key.

o  Creating a sense of urgency within the individual.  The cult must convince
   the individual of the ultimate importance of the mission, message and/or
   vision of the cult.

o  Meeting the affective needs of the individual.  Cults frequently provide
   a surrogate family, sometimes referring to each other by familial names:
   Mother, Father, Sister, and Brother.

o  Control of dyadic relationships.  Many cults maintain separate living
   quarters even for married couples.  The cult must maintain the strongest
   commitment of the individual, even above that of a marriage.

o  Possessing credible leadership.  The leaders of cults are often highly
   charismatic (gifted at attracting followers) as Mary pointed out in the
   note on Scientology (222.6), but that charisma must be supported by
   consistency and integrity, or the illusion thereof.

Peace,
Richard

    Looking at the group I left behind (the Navigators), I can see the
    following:
    
    "Controlling the time, attention and social life of the individual.
    Isolation from 'contaminating doctrines' and the choices the outside
    world offers is key."
    
    I did ask the group if I should explore outside religions, to see what
    they had to say. Seem reasonable to me. I found I was discouraged from
    doing so, on the ground it might 'corrupt' me.
    
    One guy referred to us as though were inside a greenhouse. Go outside
    of the greenhouse, and you wilt away.
    
    "Creating a sense of urgency within the individual.  The cult must
    convince the individual of the ultimate importance of the mission,
    message and/or vision of the cult."
    
    I can't remember the exact quote but it went along the lines of
    "DECIDE!... and that time is NOW!!" It put a lot of pressure on me to
    choose. Often I hear it elsewhere in another form "if you don't get
    saved, what happens if tomorrow you die? You might wake up in HELL!!!".
    These scare tactics are quite common.
    
    "Meeting the affective needs of the individual.  Cults frequently
    provide a surrogate family, sometimes referring to each other by
    familial names: Mother, Father, Sister, and Brother."
    
    They certainly were a surrogate family. They never referred to each
    other as Mother, Father, but BROTHER was used a lot. I don't like it
    anymore when people call me BROTHER!
    
    "Possessing credible leadership.  The leaders of cults are often highly
    charismatic (gifted at attracting followers) as Mary pointed out in the
    note on Scientology (222.6), but that charisma must be supported by
    consistency and integrity, or the illusion thereof."
    
    There were leaders, they were 'charismatic' but not as strong as
    perhaps a cult might be. Looking back, I can remember a strong feeling
    of unease towards the more 'exotic' leaders. I was taught that feelings
    were wrong, and should be ignored, so I dismissed those intuitive
    feelings - wish I hadn't now. 8-(
    
    I don't think anyone would refer to the Navigator's as a CULT. Granted,
    they were started by one man (Dawson Trotman) who created a large group
    that spread across the world. The group I attended met in the leaders
    house. They encouraged attendance at any local church.
    
    What was within the group was a number of charismatic christians. One
    told me once I shouldn't discuss such things as 'demons', 'speaking in
    tongues' and 'gifts of the spirit' because they weren't readily
    accepted elsewhere.
    
    The worse thing this group did to me was the threats after I left them.
    After my exorcism, they quoted the bible at me about evil spirits
    returning and making me far worse than I was before. THAT was SCARY!
    
    To me this kind of behaviour is heading towards Cult status. Any group
    that is (i) inward looking (ii) makes threats (iii) discourages contact
    with outsiders (iv) teaches their members to think of themselves as
    special ('sons of god') (v) encourages 'gifts'... the signs are all
    there for a cult.
    
    I now don't regret leaving that group. They were decidedly off the
    wall. What hurt a lot was the intervening period in between, the ten
    years or so that I spent trying to forget what happened, scared of
    telling anyone (because it hurt too much)... until I plucked up the
    courage to talk it over with a therapist ("You shouldn't see a
    therapist, they'll corrupt your faith" - by implicaton "we know what's
    best for you").
    
    What I often see (and perhaps I see it too much because I'm over
    sensitive) is the same traits in christians today. The same insular
    attitudes, distrust of outside knowledge and so on. I feel that the
    same kind of thing can happen over again with others.
    
    Pete.

Locally, The Navigators own Glen Eyrie, the mansion and estate of the
founder of Colorado Springs, General William Jackson Palmer.  Big $$$!

Pete, when you were with The Navigators, were large financial commitments
sought or expected?

Richard

A cult, in the popular sense of the word, is any collectivity that doesn't
include you as a member, and whose doctrine and practices you either
dislike or don't agree with.

In sociology, cult has an entirely different (and less interesting) meaning.

Richard

    Nope. The only discussion about the subject was tithing a tenth of my
    'salary' (I was a student) to the local church I went to.

	Could Christianity be considered a cult?

Peace,
Richard

    
    	It used to be but now we're more respectable.

    Food for thought?
    
    Christianity contains unpleasant symbols, like "the fire that does not
    go out" and imperatives like "NOW you must chose". A bit like pressure
    salesmanship in some ways.
    
    Christians seem to be very good at seeing specks in other's eyes, but
    not so hot when it comes to the plank in their own.

Note 226.7

>    	It used to be but now we're more respectable.

Sociologically speaking, you are quite correct.  Part of the definition
of a cult is that it's at negative tension with society.

I sometimes wonder how many would have the courage, commitment and tenacity
to remain Christians if all of Christianity became devoid of acceptability.

Peace,
Richard

    
    	re. -1
    
    	We may very well soon see who has the courage and commitment and 
    tenacity to claim Christ when it is no longer socially acceptable.  It
    is very close to being just that (socially unaceptable) if someone
    claims Christ with courage, commitment & tenacity.
    
    	_ed-

Note 226.10

>    	We may very well soon see who has the courage and commitment and 
>    tenacity to claim Christ when it is no longer socially acceptable.  It
>    is very close to being just that (socially unaceptable) if someone
>    claims Christ with courage, commitment & tenacity.
    
Ed,

	It sounds to me like you're speaking of the popular understanding
of the so-called apocalyptic or end-times.  Am I correct?

	I'll start a new string for this topic (Note 235.0).

Peace,
Richard

    What are the differences between cults, sects and denominations?
    
    Richard

    
    >> What are the differences between cults, sects and denominations?
    
    	It depends on which of these catagories you are a member of.
    
    				8-)
    				_ed
    

    RE: .13  _ed
    
                   Exactly.....its a matter of perspective.
    
    Dave

    The question of whether or not the United Pentacostal Church is a cult
    bought to mind the question of how we define a cult.  I like Richard's
    definition in 226.4: "any collectivity that doesn't include you as a
    member, and whose doctrine and practices you either dislike or don't
    agree with".  I sometimes run across the description of a denomination
    as a "cult" when, although it claims allegiance to the Christian
    tradition, it doesn't conform to some points of doctrine that someone
    deems important.  

    The term "cult"--to me, anyway--often has a negative connotation; a
    cult isn't generally considered just another religious denomination
    among many.  The term tends to bring to mind the Unification Church,
    for example, or Jim Jones; some of the characteristics associated with 
    in terms of questionable recruiting tactics, powerful and charismatic
    leadership, members sacrificing their will to that of the leadership,
    etc.  Perhaps this is a stereotype.  There often seems to be a much
    broader use of the term, however, that some Christians use to denigrate
    denominations that they don't agree with.  Larson's book of cults, for
    example, brandishes the term with such a broad brush stroke that even
    Unitarian Univeralism is considered a "cult", although UUs are about as
    far removed as possible from the stereotype that I just described. 
    Lumping them together with the Unification Church under the heading
    seems rather bizarre.

    -- Mike

Re:  .15

Which is why I was careful to note that Dr. Martin classified
it as a cult (since he clearly explains exactly what his
definition entails).  I think his definition is a good one, BTW.

    I have yet to hear anyone say, "I'm a member of a cult," or,
    "I'd like to invite you to our cult if you don't already have
    a cult of your own," or, "We were married in a cult ceremony."
    
    Can anybody come close to this?
    
    Peace,
    Richard

    In a course I took on the Sociology of Religion, the terms "cult,"
    "denomination,""sect," and "church" all had handy definitions which
    created a common vocabulary for sociological purposes.  However,
    I dare say, these terms have entirely different connotations when
    used by laypersons.
    
    Peace,
    Richard

re Note 226.17 by CSC32::J_CHRISTIE:

>     I have yet to hear anyone say, "I'm a member of a cult," or,
>     "I'd like to invite you to our cult if you don't already have
>     a cult of your own," or, "We were married in a cult ceremony."
>     
>     Can anybody come close to this?
  
        Well, this is "close":

        A few years ago, when I was staying in a hotel in Nice,
        France, I read the section on "religious services" in the
        English translation of the "Hotel Services" guide.  It
        mentioned the local Roman Catholic church, and then proceeded
        to mention that several other "cults" were available.

        Bob

             <<< TECRUS::ALTSYS$:[NOTES$LIBRARY]MORMONISM.NOTE;1 >>>
                     -< The Glory of God is Intelligence. >-
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Note 60.112*                Cults: general discussion                 112 of 112
CSC32::J_CHRISTIE "Unquenchable fire"                34 lines  23-JUN-1995 11:02
                    -< Mormonism discussed in others files >-
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Remarks of a less than endorsing nature concerning Mormon doctrine and beliefs
have arisen a few times in the CHRISTIAN-PERSPECTIVE notesfile in recent days.
As I would not wish to see any erroneous allegations concerning Mormonism
perpetuated by the mere absence of a knowledgable voice, I would invite
Mormons and others who are at least not counter-Mormon to participate therein.

In an attempt to localize the discussion, I initiated topic 1101, "The Mormons"
(see below).

To add CHRISTIAN-PERSPECTIVE to your notebook type

	ADD ENTRY LGP30::CHRISTIAN-PERSPECTIVE<return>

at the notes prompt or press keypad 7.

Peace be with you,
Richard

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        <<< LGP30::DKA300:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CHRISTIAN-PERSPECTIVE.NOTE;2 >>>
                 -< Discussions from a Christian Perspective >-
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Note 1101.0                        The Mormons                        No replies
CSC32::J_CHRISTIE "Unquenchable fire"                 9 lines  23-JUN-1995 10:55
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This topic for the discussion of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day
Saints, otherwise known as the LDS or Mormons.

CHRISTIAN-PERSPECTIVE also offers topics specifically for the discussion
of Quakers, Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Roman Catholic Church.

Shalom,
Richard