Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    Bill,
                 A wonderful note...Thank you.  The word love makes for
    interesting discussions.  The one kind of love that I *try* to make 
    part of my life is "Agape".  It seems, in the Greek, to involve action.
    I have heard it called "God's love in action".  That why the King James
    version used the word "charity" and I would have to agree that it comes
    closest to the real Greek meaning.  "For God so loved (Agaped) the
    world that he *GAVE*.....
    
    
    Dave

    
    Re: Basenote
    
    When I look at the Directory and see the title Love and it only has one
    reply it bothers me, for God is Love and this really should be
    diligently looked into.  For if God is Love (and I believe He is) then
    to study Love is to study God, to know what Love is is to know what God
    is...I believe this basically, but it must be understood that Love has
    body parts or members in it, like Goodness, Charity (giving), and some
    other attributes, so I'm not saying that God is SIMPLY Love, but Love
    is a complex of simplexes (I coined this phrase.  An apartment
    "complex" is made up of a multitude of simple apartments i.e. 1-2-3
    bedrooms, etc...thus a complex is a multitude of simplexes.  What are
    the simple things that make up the complex of Love?

    
    "Love has no purpose,...and that is why love is so rare these days,
     love with no goals, love in which the only thing of importance is
     the act of love itself.  In this kind of love it is *being* and 
     not *consuming* that plays the key role.  It is human self-expres-
     sion, the full play of our human capacities.  But in a culture like
     ours, which is exclusively oriented to external goals like success,
     production, and consumption, we can easily lose sight of that kind
     of love.  It fades so far into the distance that we can hardly
     imagine it as a reality any more."
    
					          - Eric Fromm
    

Note 857.5

>	I was once reprimanded by a local vicar (even though I did not
>	belong to the church) because I spent a whole sunday morning
>	pushing a crippled (sorry: physically impaired) lady up and down
>	the seaside promenade in a wheelchair instead of going to church.

It is my opinion that you local vicar missed much of the point of Jesus'
example and teachings.

Shalom,
Richard

PS  As a wheelchair-bound person myself, I confess I do not like the term
"crippled."  I can handle handicapped, disabled, quadriplegic and quite
a few others though.  Personally, my favorite "politically correct" term is
"differently-abled." ;-}

    
    I recall that Christ wrote on the sand (to those self-righteous men who
    would stone the woman), so...hey...you *just never know* who you could
    run into on the beach.
    
    Cindy

	Re: .4 Richard.

	My parents lived for several years in Aylesbury, England, close to
	the Stoke Manderville paraplegic hospital. (My father was Clerk of
	Works in charge of the building of the paraplegic sport facilities
	at the hospital).
	
	One of my greatest pleasures when visiting "home" was to take the
	patients for a "ride" around town in their wheelchairs. They were,
	almost without exception, the most humourful and selfless people
	I have ever met. We had great fun together.
	
	The point is, that many of them spoke of themselves as being
	crippled. For this reason, I have never felt that the word could
	be hurtful to anyone and I use it in rota with handicapped or 
	disabled. You can believe me when I say that my love for the
	handicapped -- for their infinate good humour; for their unbounded
	patience; for the heights of their enjoyment of those things that
	*we* take for granted; for all of this and more -- my love is
	such that I would sooner "cast out mine eyes" than intentionally
	serve them pain.

	Greetings, Derek.

    I had a friend in Stoke Manderville hospital a few years ago - she was
    involved in a very nasty motorcycle accident on a motorway and broke
    her back - she's paralysed from the waist down. She too often refers to
    herself as "crippled" - perhaps the meaning is subtly different (or
    less acceptable) in the US?
    I'm not sure how I refer to her. To my mind, she's a friend, wheelchair
    or not, and usually I use her name, not her condition when talking
    about her or to her. In fact I often forget entirely about the
    wheelchair :-).

Note 208.6

>	The point is, that many of them spoke of themselves as being
>	crippled.

Yes, I've heard this, too.

Derek, I'm certain your use of the term "crippled" is neither intended to
evoke pity nor to disparage.  And so, I hear the spirit behind your words.

You know, the lame and the blind were disallowed from entering the Temple.
Neither could a lame or blind person become a member of the Qumran community.

It was a great insult to the self-righteous of Jesus' time to be told that
it was not them, but the lame and blind, who would be guests at the great
feast.

Shalom,
Richard

Note 208.7

>    I had a friend in Stoke Manderville hospital a few years ago - she was
>    involved in a very nasty motorcycle accident on a motorway and broke
>    her back - she's paralysed from the waist down. She too often refers to
>    herself as "crippled" - perhaps the meaning is subtly different (or
>    less acceptable) in the US?

Yes, perhaps.  Also, I tend to urge others to see me for what I can do,
rather than for what I cannot do.  So, it's a personal thing.  Using
cripple with your friend may be just fine.  Ask her.

>    In fact I often forget entirely about the
>    wheelchair :-).

It is no accident that this is being discussed under the heading of "Love."
;-}

Peace,
Richard

853.48

>    The Holy One.  To be in Christ does not mean to accept doctrine about
>    Christ but to accept that living Spirit of Christ in our everyday life.
>    in  acts of Love, Kindness, Mercy, and Justice.

This is part of what is meant when some say "It's not a religion, it's a
relationship."  You're well on your way to becoming a mystic (One who
experiences the immediate Presence of the Divine).
    
>    To be in Christ does not mean to identify ourselves with TC
>    doctrine(Theologically Correct) but to live a life committed to loving
>    God with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and to loving our neighbors
>    as ourselves.
    
>    Amen

And amen!!

Richard

PS Are you including this in your message this coming Sunday morning?    

    I don't know.  I am still percolating.  
    
    My motto for the sermon is that "all things should be for building up"
    
    Too much Christ language might not serve to build up.  There are some
    negative stereotypes that I will not overcome in one sermon. 
    
    I do see myself as somewhat of a mystic.  A social mystic though.