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Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

Title:Discussions from a Christian Perspective
Notice:Prostitutes and tax collectors welcome!
Moderator:CSC32::J_CHRISTIE
Created:Mon Sep 17 1990
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1362
Total number of notes:61362

86.0. "Out of Fundamentalism - SRO" by EDIT::SMITH (Passionate committment/reasoned faith) Fri Oct 26 1990 13:49

    This note is for those who used to be fundamentalist Christians 
    to share how and why you changed from a fundamentalist Christian
    perspective to [some other] Christian perspective.  I would find it
    very interesting to hear your experiences.
    
    Note:
    
    - Please do not bash fundamentalism or fundamentalists
    
    - Please do not use this string to debate either the validity or the
      reasoning of any notes entered in this string -- SRO -- (Start a
      new string if you want to debate)
    
    Thanks,
    Nancy
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86.1COOKIE::JANORDBYThe government got in againFri Oct 26 1990 14:349
    
    THIS IS NOT A DEBATE   ;)
    
    Could somebody please define fundamentalism for me. Although you may
    perceive me as one of -them-, I really don't have much more than a
    feeling as to what constitues a fundamentalist. So perhaps at least a
    working definition might be in order.
    
    Jamey
86.2You? A fundamentalist?JOKUR::CIOTOFri Oct 26 1990 14:406
    You think you're perceived as a fundamentalist????  Wherever did you
    get THAT idea, Jimmy -- er, um, I mean, Jerry, oops, um, I mean JAMEY!!!  
    ;)  ;) ;)   ;)  ;)  ;)
    
    Buckwheat 8)
    
86.3SOFBA1::PHILPFri Oct 26 1990 17:5728
    This will have to be quick because they're shutting my system down in
    five minutes!
    
    I too am unsure what is meant by fundamentalist although I think I have
    a good idea.  I prefer to think of myself as a foundationalist.  I grew
    up in the south where just about everyone is a nominal christian. 
    There is a lot of t.v. ministry mentality and emotionalism and I
    rebelled against that.  I wanted something that didn't seem to take
    over my emotions and leave my mind in the dust.  I still have a great
    deal of difficulty with folks who are very emotional in their christian
    expression.  I also began to question where the concept of a "personal
    relationship with Christ" came from.  I haven't seen that terminology
    used anywhere in the Bible although I do believe that Christ in
    interested and cares for each individual and that each person is of
    great worth.  
    
    I stopped going to church while I was in college.  A professor of mine
    introduced to me to the writings of Francis Schaeffer and through the
    years I had begun to understand on a different level what chrisitianity
    meant in terms of Lordship of Christ.  I am a christian, not a very
    emotional one and I feel uncomfortable with many aspects of churches
    which I would consider fundamental.  Most important is the area of the
    treatment of women and the lack of understanding of the radical
    liberating view of women that was presented in the New testament.
    
    System is going down in two minutes. I'll get back to this tomorrow.
    
    Beth
86.4COOKIE::JANORDBYThe government got in againFri Oct 26 1990 18:124
    
    OK, Paul, I'll bite.  Just what is a fundamentalist to you? 
    
    Jamey
86.5Take definitions elsewhereEDIT::SMITHPassionate committment/reasoned faithFri Oct 26 1990 18:1815
    Jamey and Paul,
    
    Part of the value of this string is that those who relate their
    experiences of change here can tell us what it meant to be a
    fundamentalist when they were one!  This string is to share 
    *experiences* more than definitions -- i.e., "I used to
    be a fundamentalist Christian who believed/did/experienced abc; then
    because of qrl I became a [whatever] who believes/does/experiences xyz."
    
    If you want a string to discuss/define "fundamentalism," let's do that
    elsewhere -- ok?  :-)  This is one string where we do not have to agree
    on a definition!
    
    Thanks,
    Nancy
86.6CSC32::M_VALENZAI came, I saw, I noted.Fri Oct 26 1990 18:4091
    I was brought up in the First Christian Church, Columbus Indiana.  This
    church was affiliated with the North American Christian Convention.  Its
    theology was generally *very* similar to what Southern Baptists believe.
    My parents are theologically conservative, but I would not consider them
    fundamentalists.

    Nevertheless, I was definitely caught up in fundamentalist, "born again"
    Christianity during my teenage years.  When I was a sophomore in high
    school, I attended morning services with my family, and also went to
    evening services.  On Wednesday nights I attended a coffee house for
    teens, called "His Place", that was sponsored by a local Baptist Church.
    I also attended morning prayer meetings that several students had
    organized at the high school.  I was as straight laced as they come; I
    didn't swear or drink, and I was taught that all sex outside of 
    heterosexual marriage was wrong.

    I read a lot of fundamentalist literature at that time.  I was into Hal
    Lindsey's apocalyptic claims of a coming end of the world, and read
    his books "The Late Great Planet Earth" and "Satan is Alive and Well on
    Planet Earth".  I read the Bible regularly, and listened to radio
    evangelists in my bedroom while I studied at night.  I was baptized when
    I was in the sixth grade.  When I told the minister that I had accepted
    "Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior", I so excited and moved by
    the experience that I was shaking visibly enough for a classmate sitting
    several rows behind me to notice.

    In some ways, though, I defied the stereotype of the fundamentalist
    Christian even then.  For one thing, I was anything but politically
    conservative.  Having read the Sermon on the Mount, at a time when my
    government was fighting a war in Vietnam that I considered immoral, I
    was awe struck with the vision of pacifism and love for enemies that
    Jesus expressed, as well as his message of simplicity and identification
    for the poor.  In many ways, without realizing it, I was in agreement
    with what I now know to be Quaker values.

    In any case, as I got older, I found it more and more difficult for me
    to accept the doctrines that I was taught.  I had a great deal of
    interest in science, for example, and I found that I could not agree
    with the fundamentalist stance towards science (particularly biological
    evolution), or towards biblical criticism.  I also had several moral
    disagreements with various teachings, such as the doctrine of hell, and
    the fundamentalist view of sexual morality.  I found that I could not
    accept all of the Bible as being literally true, and considered much of
    it fanciful and unscientific.  Most importantly, I felt myself
    constrained by my faith, told what to think, with no room for
    independent thought on my own.

    Unfortunately, having come from a background that condemned religious
    liberalism, and that could not accept the validity of a Christianity
    that did not take everything in the Bible at face value, the only
    alternative that I perceived to be open to me was to reject the faith
    altogether.  I simply went to the other extreme, viewing all of
    Christianity with disdain as being morally and intellectually bankrupt.
    I became something of a logical positivist as a result.  For years
    after this I carried a lot of negative baggage about Christianity.  And
    to be sure, leaving behind the rigidly dogmatic religion of my past
    *was* a breath of fresh air. I felt free at last, to think for myself,
    instead of blindly accepting all the doctrines that were taught me
    simply because "the Bible tells me so."
    
    Having moved beyond what I perceived to be the rigidity of my previous
    dogma, the next step was for me to rediscover religion.  That began to
    take place a few years ago.  I found that I missed much of what the
    religion of my youth had offered me, even though I could obviously not 
    accept those old doctrines.  I began attending a few Unitarian services,
    and as I did so I found that my interest in religion and spirituality
    returned as well.  It was not a return to the fundamentalist religion of
    my past, certainly; but it was a re-kindling of interest with a *new*
    outlook on things.

    I came to realize that fundamentalism was not the be-all and end-all of
    Christianity.  I read the Bible, and a great deal of literature about
    the Bible.  I also studied other religions, including the Eastern ones;
    but I found that my greatest religious interest naturally rested with
    Christianity, because that was where my spirituality was molded in my
    youth.  I did have a lot of negative baggage to overcome, and it took me
    a long time to do so, to overcome my prior hostility to religion and to
    Christianity in particular.  In some ways I had to start from scratch;
    but gradually I did formulate my theological and spiritual values,
    unfettered by past dogma.

    I eventually gravitated from Unitarian Universalism over to Quakerism,
    which is my current spiritual home.  I once read in a Catholic magazine
    that someone came to the conclusion that a lot of men seem to undergo a
    spiritual re-awakening at around age 30.  For me, that has more or less
    proved to be the case (it started for me at age 28, and I am 30 now.) 
    I expect that my spirituality will continue to develop over time--but
    (I hope) forward, not backwards.  I can only imagine where it will take
    me.
    
    -- Mike
86.7WILLEE::FRETTSwooing of the wind....Sat Oct 27 1990 08:5323
    RE: .6 Mike
    

    >.........................When I told the minister that I had accepted
    >"Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior", I so excited and moved by
    >the experience that I was shaking visibly enough for a classmate sitting
                               ^^^^^^^
    >several rows behind me to notice.

    Mike, maybe this experience was your body telling you this....
    

    
    >In many ways, without realizing it, I was in agreement
    >with what I now know to be Quaker values.
                                ^^^^^^

    Get it? ;^)
    
    Sorry I just couldn't resist!  Thanks for sharing your story!
    
    Carole
86.8CSC32::M_VALENZAI came, I saw, I noted.Sat Oct 27 1990 10:564
    I hadn't thought of that, Carole.  And that is actually where the term
    Quaker comes from.  :-)
    
    -- Mike
86.9COOKIE::JANORDBYThe government got in againMon Oct 29 1990 13:3315
    
    Well, 
    
    I wouldn't necessarily say that I have come out of Fundamentalism, but
    have been in it enough to know why I stayed out. As Beth mentioned,
    there is a lot of appeal to emotionalism. *Sometimes* I have seen this
    uses as a substitute for the movement of the Spirit of God.
    Fundamentalism, and to some degreee, Christianity as a whole, has
    abdicated the intellectual aspect to humanism, and is only now
    beginning to encourage widespread thinking again. 
    
    Jamey
    
    Sorry Paul, I don't fit the fundamentalist box  ;)
    
86.10No, you're one of a kind. ;) ;)JOKUR::CIOTOMon Oct 29 1990 14:328
    .9  Jamey
    
                  "Sorry Paul, I don't fit the fundamentalist box."
    
    Thank pitchforks and pointed ears!   }:^)  
    
    Paul ;)
     
86.11SYSTEM::GOODWINThe Q continuumTue Oct 30 1990 08:5826
    I left fundamentalism, "born again" christianity behind, to become more
    or less outside of 'christianity'. I don't attend any kind of church or
    congregation. I call myself christian influenced, which is probably a
    good description of where I am.
    
    At University (I'm in England), I became part of the student
    Navigator's group, through friendship with one of it's members. At the
    time, everything seemed to make a lot of sense to me, but much later,
    after I was 'diagnosed' as being possessed, I came to distrust the
    people around me.
    
    The hardest part was walking away from that group. On two occaisions
    they came to talk to me, and there were dire warnings. One quoted to me
    the passage in the Bible concerning evil spirits leaving a man, then
    returning to find the house swept clean but empty.
    
    The Navigator group itself tended to be conservative christians; my
    friends with whom I had most contact were part of the 'charismatic
    movement' as they called it. It was one of this group who decided I was
    possessed - because he'd done this kind of thing before and was
    'experienced'.
    
    To say the least, my experience of BAC/Fundamentalism has been
    unpleasant, so I can be a little hostile to them (ask Irena!).
    
    Pete.
86.12Fundamentalists AnonymousCSC32::J_CHRISTIESister of AmarettoMon Apr 25 1994 19:2614
Fundamentalists Anonymous
PO Box 20324
Greeley Square Station
New York, NY 10001

Hotline 212-696-0240

FA does not recruit members.  FA membership includes former fundamentalists
and adult children of fundamentalists.  FA Family are the concerned parents,
spouses, relatives and close friends of those who've been caught up in
fundamentalism.

FA does not endorse any church or religion and does not discuss theology.