Conference lgp30::christian-perspective

    
    
    	Although I never introduced myself (I seldom do in NOTES), I
    also feel the need to exit from this conference.  It isn't because
    of any one thing, but a combination of things that are spiritual
    and work related.  Since my time is limited, I feel that my time
    would be best spent in other areas.
    
    	My wish is that the conference accomplishes what it set out
    to do.  Although I don't agree with what is going on here, I also
    realize that it has a right to exist, and I'm not going to get in
    the way.  
    
    	I'm not saying that I will never be back (we all occasionally
    take a peek once in a while), but the climate both spiritually and
    time wise is just not here for me.  
    
    
    					"a friend loveth at all times"
    
    						bill..g.
    

Have a good vacation, Mikie.

Collis

    	I am in school this week. See you next week - when I expect to be
    well rested. ;-)

    
    I'm only 2080 notes behind...so I'm still officially out until I catch
    up.  (;^)
    
    Cindy

    Re:  .4 - Cindy
    
    2080 Notes behind?  I'd set seen.  This file's ABOUT religion; it's not
    my religion.
    
    Love to you Cindy!
    
    DR

    Cindy,
    
    	I think it's good that you are taking the time to get to
    know us before entering a flurry of notes.  Many misunderstandings
    which developed here could have been avoided had others been so
    thoughtful. 
    
    I patiently await you,
    Richard

    
    	I'm out:
    		Every week Thursday thru Monday.
    
    
    		(Somebody has to work the weird shifts)

I will be devoting every spare minute for the next two weeks to
compiling, writing, editing and proofing my term paper.  See you
about the 19th.

The perennial "Junior",
Richard

    Good luck, Richard!

    I'm leaving, hopefully on good terms with you all. After trying this
    conference out for a while I can plainly see that it is not for me.
    The Problem is not that I feel the theological differences too great,
    or too liberal (I do feel that they are too liberal but that's not why
    I'm leaving). 
    
      Rather, it's a subtle thing that continues to bother me. There have
    been many subtle references to how "some other people in this
    conference" view things. This is perhaps not a direct quote  but there
    exists here a tendency to compare beliefs and then hit  un-named
    person(s) with a negative comparison. It is in my opinion tanatamount
    to gossip only the names are withheld.
    
      There is also the annoying (to me) refernces to how awful (and *gasp*
    literal:^)) GOLF::CHRISTIAN is. I truly love that conference and its
    participants and it pains me to see it maligned here by mods and
    regular participants alike. I feel that this conference will not grow
    much spiritually as long as such negatives comparison ties to the other
    conference exist.
    
    
      Perhaps others can grow spiritually here but I cannot as long as
    these subtle and  not-so-subtle attitudes exist. I guess my
    sensibilities are still too easily offended. 
    
      I leave you all to the care of our beloved Lord Jesus in the hopes
    that you will all come to know and love Him fully. My prayers are with
    you.
    
    Gil

    
    
    Bye Gil....wishing you well.
    
    Carole	

    My *very* best wishes to you Gil.  Thanks for being here
    and for your prayers;  you are in mine too.
    
    Karen

    Gil - 
    
    I'll miss our discussions very much.  
    
    My prayers follow you, as well.
    
    Nanci

Well, it's not nice for me to write-and-run.  But I'm not going to have
that much time to follow the discussions or to respond to responses to what
I wrote.  Not because I'm not interested, but because I'm really behinder
and behinder in my work and I shouldn't spend as much time in Notes, even
if read-only.  Maybe I'll be back in a few weeks.

--Simon

    I'll be attending a class for the next two days then leaving on Friday
    to spend a week in California visiting friends for the Thanksgiving
    holiday.
    
    I'll try to stop by here before leaving on Friday.  If I'm not able,
    I would like to wish you all a _very_ happy and healthy Thanksgiving!
    Take good care!
    
    peace & blessings,
    
    Karen

    I'll be on vacation next week.  We leave Sat. to see our youngest
    son play Petruchio on "Taming of the Shrew" at Hartwick College,
    then take him with us to Tenn. and Ky. to see his following ill
    and aging relatives:
    
    - grandfather, 84, with early Alzheimer's
    - stepgrandmother, 82
    - grandmother, 79, in a nursing home
    - great-aunt, 82
    - great-uncle and aunt, in their 80's
    - counsins in their 70's whose middle-aged son committed suicide this
      fall
    - great-aunt and uncle aged 80-89 (and some of their children and
      grand-children)
    
    I'll be physically back at work Nov. 26 -- don't know how long it will
    take to feel "normal" again after this whirlwind trip (over 2000 miles
    by auto in one week)
    
    Nancy

    I, too, will be taking all next week off. Unlike Nancy, I'll be staying
    home and catching up on all those things that I "never got around to"
    and getting a head start on my holiday shopping. So why take a
    vacation ?  My work week is the same, be it 5 days or 3, and taking a
    rough three days off for a week's vacation seems to make more sense
    than taking an easy five for the same benefit. Bet I'm more rested when
    I get back than Nancy will be. ;-)
    
    Nancy, what an impressive list of aged reletives, are you a member of
    the Howard Families ?  (check out Heinlien for that reference)

    I'll be here part of the day on Monday.  That afternoon I'm heading to
    New England to spend the holiday week.  I'll be back Tuesday, the 27th.
    
    Nancy - tell your son to break a leg.  (I have a special place in my
    heart for _Taming of a Shrew_.  It was the first Shakespeare I ever
    did.  I played Katherina.)
    
    Nanci

    Vacation was nice, though visiting 11 relatives above the age of 70
    sure puts you in touch with your own mortality!!  They are doing as
    well as can be expected for their ages, I suppose (most are 80 or 
    older).  It always feels good to visit those who are part of an
    extended family and always feels bad/sad to visit those who live alone,
    whether as individuals or as a couple, without younger generations
    with them.  (Maybe the latter prefer their privacy and independence,
    though!)
    
    No, I'm not part of the Howard Families and also don't know who Heinlien
    is so would need a reference to the reference (whatever it is!) :-)
    
    My grandmother lived to be 101 and her oldest daughter to be 100, though.  
    I always thought that the medical researchers should be studying the
    lifestyles of families that live *long* instead of primarily those who
    have problems!!  
    
    (And son made a great Petruchio, of course!)
    
    Nancy

    References:
    
    Robert Heinlein is a science fiction writer.  
    
    Two of his novels, Methusaleh's Children and Time Enough for Love,
    chronicle members of a "genetics experiment" into long life. 
    Basically, in the late 1890's/early 1900's, a foundation was created to
    encourage people who had 4 grandparents who lived into their 80's to
    marry, with a view to increasing the natural lifetimes of their
    offspring.  Over time, the progeny of the experiment became known as
    the Howard Families, based on the foundation name.
    
    Alison

I've been quite busy recently.  Expect I will continue to be for a few
more days.  (It takes quite a lot to make me busy enough to never note!)
I'll be back next week.

Collis

    I'll be on vacation, and out of town, next week.  If I have access to a
    terminal, I may be able to read notes to a limited extent, but in
    general I suspect I will mostly be involved with other activities.

    -- Mike

    I'm taking off between Christmas and New Years. Normally I log on
    regularly when on vacation but this time I'm going to try not to.
    I'm also dropping a lot of conferences from my notebook today to remove
    distractions. This one is one of those. Perhaps I'll be back some time 
    in the New Year.

    			Alfred

    	I, too, will be out the week between Christmas and New Years, enjoy
    your holidays.

    I will be out for the Holiday week, and hopefully it will be cold enough
    to have some ice on the lake to enjoy for skating and ice fishing.

     I swear, someday I'll live in an area where winter still exist. -:)


    Peace
    Jim

    
    
    Hope all of you have an enjoyable holiday!  I will be on vacation
    next week!
    
    Love,
    Carole

    I can see it's gonna be kinda quiet around here for a while.
    
    I'll look forward to hearing from you sometime in 1991, Alfred!
    
    I pray you have enriching holidays, everyone!
    
    Peace,
    Richard

    
    Well, I am returning after an *unexpected* absence!
    Maybe I'll be able to catch up while those of you who are
    on vacation are gone!!
    
    Would you believe that we had 3 out of 4 disks crash?  One or more of
    them had their heads in little pieces -- and there were *no* usable backups
    for 1 1/2 of the crashed disks!  In addition to much system downtime
    for all of us, some of our writers (including several in the group I
    supervise) could not access their VMS accounts for nearly a week.  Most
    of them had at least some of their files on their PC hard disks and had
    other files in CMS (which, fortunately, was on a disk that did *not* crash!
    
    (My account was on the disk that did *not* crash -- yet, anyway!)
    
    Well, the general chaos that ensued from all this made any noting time
    impossible, but things are as good as they're likely to get, schedules
    have been readjusted, etc., and I hope to catch up in this conference
    during Christmas week... I'll be taking only the 26th off.
    

    Nancy,
    
    	Well, yes.  I missed you.  But, I wrongly thought that you were
    here and in a temporary "read only" mode.
    
    	A Merry Christmas, friend!
    
    Richard

    I will be taking a vacation day tomorrow.  See you when we begin
    a new calendar.
    
    Practice safe everything!
    Richard

I'm gone to California until next week -- I'll be back Feb 25.

Bob

    I will be gone next 2, maybe 3, days.
    
    I bid you peace,
    Richard

Note 197.44                           Piety                             44 of 44
RAVEN1::WATKINS                                      15 lines   5-APR-1991 16:21
                                  -< GOOD BY >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I am sorry I even got into this debate now that I have found I have
    been debating with an idol worshipper.  Zen Budaism is the worship of
    man.  They do not even know the God of the Bible.  Go rub your gods 
    belly, I will go and pray to the living God.  This note is being taken
    over by those who make fools of real Christians by adding Christian
    to what they really believe.  I supose if a Satanist wanted to he
    could take part in this note by saying "I am a Christian Satanist".
    
    Therefore, I will delete this note from my file.  I will no longer take
    part in this note.
    
    
    
                                    Marshall
    

    what a pity
    
    I'm sorry marshall left
    
    and that he understood buddists so poorly
    
    
    Bonnie

    RE: .44
    
    What kind of Christian witness is this?  How does this attitude make
    Christianity anything but UNattractive to the non-Christian?

    I think I've had enough, I said "ciao" in the piety topic, and I've
    been doing some thinking.  I guess I really need a different tone of
    teaching, no debate, no anger, no "do it my way or you're wrong".  I
    don't need fire and brimstone, I need to have my growing beliefs
    validated, not cast down.  I am newly come to spirituality, and the
    tenderest shoots are often the easiest to trample.
    
    The kind of teaching I need would follow the two principles below:
    
    Ephesians 4:2
    "Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another
    in love."
    
    Ephesians 4:29
    "Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what
    is helpful for building others up according to their neds, that it may
    benefit those who listen."
    
    -Jody
    

    We'll miss you, Jody.  I hope you find what you need somewhere, but
    it's really hard to find exactly what we need in *any* human
    organization, without being willing and able to sift out the chaff.  
    
    As I asked E Grace, what could we do differently -- given that this is
    a Digital notes conference -- to make it more comfortable?

    Hope it's ok to put this here - but if there's a better string, I'm
    sure one of the mods will move it for me -- right, Richard? ;}
    
    I was surprised to receive a phone call today from Dave Meyer.  He
    sounded good and "energized" and was calling from the outplacement
    agency.  We conducted our business and then chatted about this notes
    conference for awhile...  I didn't think to ask him if he had any
    special message or greeting, but he *did* sound like he misses us!
    
    I thought you would enjoy hearing even this small bit of news
    about Dave.
    
    Nancy

    Thanks, Nancy! and ;-}
    
    Richard

I'll be in Littleton, MA for a training class from April 22-26.

    Which facility, Nanci?

    Well, I've had it!!
    
    
    
    *Definitely* it's time for a change!
    
    
    
    
    So without further ado:
    
    
    
    I'm leaving on vacation this Thursday (April 25) and returning May 6.
    
    As I get ready to go, my participation here may diminish or suddenly
    disappear (vacation "reach-back").  When I return, I'm sure I'll be
    swamped with work and may not get back here quickly (vacation
    "after-burn").
    
    Mike Seabury - I really *did* mean to continue our dialog before now;
    :(     I hope to get back to it! :)
    
    See y'all after I visit 8 relatives over the age of 80......
    
    Love and peace in the meantime,
    Nancy

    I am taking my Personal Holiday Thursday, May 2nd.  See y'all Friday!
    
    Blessings,
    Richard

    I'm going away for a while to lower my blood pressure. Don't know
    when I'll be back but I'll probably be read only for a while when
    it happens. I believe too many people are reacting to what they
    expect me to say and not what I do say. I'm also not communicating
    as well as I should be. Perhaps after some prayer, Bible study, and
    reflection God will give me better words then I've been coming up
    with myself.

    		Alfred

I'm sorry to see you go, Alfred.  I hope you return soon.

				-- Bob

    God speed Alfred.  Hope to see you here again soon.
    
    Karen

    
            Vacation............................Jun. 24th to Jul. 8th
    
            School in Bedford...................Aug. 4th to Aug. 16th
    
     
     *YEAH* FOR VACATION!!!! ....yeah for <sigh> school...............
    
    
    Dave

    I'm on vacation as of 3P.M. EST, for two weeks. 
    
    
    
     Peace
    Jim

    Have a great time Jim.  Hope you get a chance to hear some live
    bluegrass while you're at it! ;-)
    
    Karen

    
    Hi everyone,
    
    I'll be on vacation until the 9th of July.  Will catch up with you
    all then!
    
    Love to you,
    Carole

    Have a great one Carole!  I'll miss you. :-)
    
    Kb

Have fun, Carole!  :-)

Don't let Muffin get too wet!  

Nanci

    
    I'm baacckkk!
    
    ;^)
    Carole

Yeeeaaaah!!!!  Carole's back!

:-)

Nanci

    I'm back from a most restful and productive vacation. Didn't get to
    hear any live Bluegrass music Karen, but managed to learn some tunes
    from a Doc Watson album I have. 

    Now to catch up on 8k of notes !

    Jim

    I'm on vacation just in case anyone missed me. I'll be back at work
    Monday but may or may not pop in here from time to time.
    
    		Alfred

    re .57,
    
    Gettin' down with Doc Watson and making yer own music aye Jim?   
    That'll do, fer sure!  
    
    Welcome back!
    
    :-)

    RE: .59  Karen,
    
                    *AND* welcome bact to you to Karen.
     2
    D

    *Thanks* 2D!  (Just touching down for a few days here before
    going off to school next week.)  What a month it's been. :-)
    
    Karen

I'll be on vacation in Minnesota next week; I'll be back on the 29th.

				-- Bob

    Have a great vacation Bob!  
    
    I'll be away at school for most of the week.
    
    Stay cool all. :-)  

Due to a new job (and work requirements), my presence in this and
every other non-work-related conference will tend to be read only.
I do intend at this point to read the notes regularly (and if that
9600 baud modem for home comes through soon, perhaps I will be able
to contribute as well).

Collis

    
    
    Gee Collis.  Your one of the few who always jumps in and answers
    my questions!!  ;^)  It certainly is quiet without you writing.
    Hope the new job works out well for you!
    
    Carole

    I will miss your 'voice' here too Collis.  Hope you can still
    participate now and then.  Any chance you might be free on the evening
    of August 12 for the dinner we're planning?  It would be great to
    meet you in person.  ...Still playing bridge at lunch? :-)
    
    Karen
    

    As an aside here:  
    
    I noticed Collis' mailstop and realized he must be close by to where
    I sit here in ZK.  Sure enough, he's less than 15 feet away in the next
    aisle!!  We just had a nice conversation and I was glad to meet him in
    person.  He may be able to attend the dinner on the 12th.
    
    Ro
    

I'll miss your voice in here too, Collis.  Hope that modem comes through!

Nanci

        I'll be out -- on vacation -- until the 12th.

        Bob

      Starting tomorrow afternoon I'll be off on a much anticipated
     and much needed vacation for the next two weeks. 
      Ya'll have fun at the get together on the 12th. 
      Hopefully when I get back I'll have both the time and the 
     inclination to contribute here more often than I have the past
     few weeks.

                                                               Mike

    Have a *good* one Mike; really wish you could've made the dinner!
    
    Karen

    Welcome back from vacation Mike Seabury!  Hope it was a good one!
    
    Kb

    
    Karen:

          Thanks for the welcome back. Yes, I had a very good time and
        my batteries are recharged.
          I am, however, a bit worried. Last year I went on vacation and
        Iraq invaded Kuwait. This year I went on vacation and we had a 
        hurricane and an attempted coup in the USSR. I wonder if I should
        start taking my vacations in July or start keeping my vacation
        plans secret.

                                                               Mike   

    
    Hi Mike....seems you are not the only once who has experienced this
    type of coincidence.  There is a fellow in DEJAVU who has had exactly
    the same situation occur over the past few years.  Strange.
    
    Carole

    RE:Mike

    Please don't take your vacation in July, that's when I take mine. Both
    you and my boss tend to have disasters on your vacations. I don't want
    mine to be ruined.-:)


    Peace
    Jim

    Due to a large amount of work, I won't be a participant around the note
    world for a while. Sorry if I was unable to answer any replies. Ya'll
    be in my prayers until I can get back.


    Peace
    Jim
    
    P.S. If there are any more CP get-togethers, could someone please get in 
    touch with me off line ? Thanks in advance.

    Jim,
    
    Your voice will be very sorely missed here.  I will be holding you 
    in my thoughts and prayers in the meantime, and yes! we will definately
    let you know of the next C-P gathering! :-)
    
    peace & blessings,
    Karen  

    Well, the work didn't last long, so I'm back. This "hurry up and wait mode"
    my job is in reminds be of the Marines.-:)

    OH well !

    Jim

    Jim .78,
    
    	I, for one, am glad!  Very glad! :-)
    
    Richard

    Welcome back Jim!

    Probably some of you know, but I'd like to mention here that
    my husband Don (the DR) is leaving Dec today. I doubt he'll
    read this, so if you want to tell him good bye you can send
    him mail at wmois::reinke.
    
    Bonnie

    
    Just wanted to let you know that my work schedule is getting more
    and more hectic, so my *written* participation may be less than
    usual.  Didn't want any of you to think I skipped out or anything!
    Looks like I'll be working at 2 different sites for the next few
    months (Maynard and Shrewsbury).
    
    Carole

    Looking forward to 'reading' you again here Carole!  Will miss your
    voice in the meantime.
    
    Hugs,
    Kb

I'm going to be dropping out for awhile, at least until November.

God bless each one of you,
Richard

    Shalom Richard, holding you close in my thoughts and prayers.
    
    God/dess bless,
    
    Karen

    You'll be missed !
    
    Peace
    Jim

    Welcome back Richard!
    
    Hugs,
    Karen

He's baaaaaaack!

:-)

Nanci

    Missed you, Richard...
    
    Love to you,
    
    Ro
    

	Next Wed. I go in to have my Carpal Tunnel cleaned out in my right
	wrist. I'll be out a week to ten days after that. After today I
	will probably not have much time for notes. After I get back I
	will probably be read only for a while depending on how easily I 
	can type with a cast on my primary typing hand.

			Alfred

    
    
    Hi everyone,
    
    Just wanted to let you know that you probably won't see me noting
    here in the future.  This has nothing to do with being offended
    about anything, or anything in that vein.  My beliefs are just
    going through major overhaul and I don't feel that I've much in
    common anymore with the discussions taking place here.
    
    I wish you all well and will 'see' some of you in other files.
    
    Carole

    Carole,
    
    Very best wishes to you on your journey.  I've really enjoyed
    all that you've shared here since C-P's inception.  Hope to
    see you again here sometime.  (And I'll be seeing you soon -
    in person!)                                                 
    
    Love,
    Kb

Gosh, Carole .92, <sniff!> I really hate to see you go.

But I am glad you announced your departure and that it was not due to
some festering wound or irritation.

God be with you on your journey.  And feel free to drop in whenever you
like!  :-)

Peace,
Richard

    Re .91
    
    Alfred,
    
    	You have my prayers for a completely successful procedure and
    a rapid recovery.  You'll be missed here in C-P.
    
    Peace,
    Richard

    Will miss you here in C-P, but I truly understand your need to let go/
    move on.
    
    Thank God, I'll see you elsewhere, there would be an empty space in my
    life that only your friendship can fill!!!
    
    Love and light on your path,
    
    Roey
    

    This is it! I'm out of here tomorrow. I've been TFSO'd! Rumor has it
    about 30 others in the north east area(field) are going tomorrow.
    
    Its been fun.....
    
    john

    Very best wishes to you john!  Thanks very much for the time you've
    been able to spend here. 
    
    peace & blessings,
    Karen

John,

	I appreciated your presence here.  I'm sorry to see you go.

Many blessings,
Richard

    
    Well, that was a short departure!  I'm back to give this another
    try.....mostly because of all the special people here.
    
    Carole

    Welcome back Carole !
    
    
    Jim

    Missed you Carole!  Glad you're back...
    
    Love,
    
    Roey
    

    Me Too!
    
    Nancy

    Yay!  She's back!
    
    Nanci

    re .100
    
    Uh oh...she's back!
    
    
    
	;-) :-) only kidding Carole!  Nice for you to be here again!
    
    Karen

    WOW...This is great news!  Welcome back, Carole!
    
    Richard

    
    Thank you everyone!  It feels good to be so welcomed!
    
    Carole

I haven't spent a lot of time in this notes conference, but Richard and I
have been kindred spirits in some ways (in *SOME* ways ;-), so I thought I
would post these parting comments here as well...


            <<< GOLF::DISK$COMMON:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CHRISTIAN.NOTE;2 >>>
           -< ...by Believing, you might have Life more abundantly. >-
================================================================================
Note 149.0                       Missions bound                       No replies
LEDS::HEATH                                          49 lines  13-FEB-1992 16:30
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I would like to share with you folks some news and some major life
    changes for my wife Judy and I.  We have been accepted for service by an
    organization called Mennonite Central Committee (MCC) - roughly a
    Christian equivalent of the Peace Corps.  We have been asked to serve in
    a country called Burkina Faso (formerly Upper Volta) in West Africa,
    just above Ghana and below the Sahara desert.  While there, we will be
    working with some national Christians to help develop water supplies
    (primarily through the building of small dams) and to improve health
    conditions and education.

    I am leaving Digital probably on Feb. 21st, maybe a little into the next
    week.  We are leaving Massachusetts the last day of February, and moving
    enough of our belongings to start up a small apartment to our parents
    houses in upstate New York (near Binghamton).  We are spending the month
    of March visiting family and friends, and arrive in Akron, PA (near
    Lancaster) on March 31st to start a 10-day orientation with MCC.  Right
    after that we leave for Burkina Faso.

    We spend the first three weeks in Piela, the village where we will be
    working.  Then we go to the capital city, Ouagadougou (popularly called
    Ouaga!), for 4-6 months of French language training.  After that we go
    back to Piela where we will start learning the local language, called
    Gourma.  Most of the first year is devoted to language and culture
    learning.  We will spend the rest of our three year term working on
    water and health issues.

    We would appreciate your prayers as we make preparations.  We have been
    working towards this for quite some time, but that doesn't mean it feels
    any less like jumping off of a cliff!  Pray that we would have the faith
    to know that God's loving hands will catch us.  Also pray for the time
    we will spend with family during March, for the growth of a prayer
    support team, and for organizational details to fall into place.

    If you have any questions about the assignment, the country (yes, it
    gets very warm there...), or whatever, feel free to post them here or
    contact me offline.  I will also include our mailing address in Burkina
    Faso in case you would like to write us a note after April 1st.
    Missionaries love to get mail, you know... :-)

            MCC - Jeff and Judy Heath
            O1 B.P. 1307
            Ouagadougou O1
            Burkina Faso
            West Africa
            (via France)        <-- usually gets it there a little faster
    
    In Christ's Love,
    Jeff

    Jeff Heath .108,
    
    	Many blessings to you and your spouse in your work, the loving
    task and mission God has placed upon your minds and hearts to serve
    through the MCC.
    
    Peace,
    Richard

I will be out Friday, March 20th and Monday, March 23rd.  I'll
be on a spiritual retreat modeled after the Crusillo experience.

Peace,
Richard

    I have been involved with this notes file from the beginning.  C-P has
    served a very important purpose.  Prior to its founding, there was no
    notes file within Digital devoted to the discussion of Christianity
    that was legitimately open to all employees, regardless of their
    personal beliefs.  I am thus proud to be a part of this.

    However, as I have stated from the very beginning, I am not a
    Christian.  I have a great deal of interest in religion, particularly
    Christianity, which is why I was involved in the first place.  But it
    is time to move on.  I have already passed the moderator baton on to
    others.  I think that it is best that those who are Christians define
    the character of this community.  The level of discussions here have
    not suited my own interests, even as one whose involvement is as an
    outsider to the Christian faith.

    See you on the net,
    -- Mike

    
    i'm very sorry to see you go, mike. i've delighted in reading
    your notes and i hope that you will, at least now and again,
    find the time/feel the urge to join us once and awhile.
    
    peter

    Mike,
    
    It's been great having you here.  I've found your thoughts to be
    very evocative and inspiring on many occasions.  I respect your
    decision to depart if you feel the need to, but also hope you'll return
    (sooner rather than later). 
    
    Though I respect your opinion on many things, this I must disagree
    with:
    
    > I think that it is best that those who are Christians define the 
    character of this community. <
    
    I think it is best that *all* define the "character" of this 
    community, Christian and non-Christian alike! :-)
    
    Kb

   Mike,
    
   Please visit often.  It's the difference in voices that make the 
   chorus sound rich.

   Allison

    
    
    Mike,
    
    I'm sorry to see you go.  I have enjoyed your notes and ideas very much
    and will miss them.  To me, you embody much more of what, imo, Jesus
    taught than many professed Christians.  You are a thoughtful,
    intelligent, kind, and insightful person.
    
    Carole

    Mike,
    
    Your noting here is one of the reasons I note here!!!  I've enjoyed
    learning much about the Quakers and their history through your notes
    and have discovered their beliefs are very similar to my own.
    
    I honor your decision to move on and in fact, will give much thought as
    to whether I will continue to note in C-P myself.  Ditto on what Carole
    said in .115.
    
    Am glad to have met you.  Keep in touch...
    
    Love to you,
    
    Ro
    

    Mike
    
    I have to echo what Ro said. Your noting here is one of the reasons
    that I am in this file. I really appreciate what you have to say
    and I've learned a lot from you. (and I wish you would return
    occasionally.)
    
    Bonnie

    I'm honored and touched by the kind notes in response to my sign-out
    announcement.  Because of that, and because of a phone call I received
    yesterday from a certain friend, I have been considering this matter
    further.

    Right now, perhaps it is better that I say that I am taking a
    sabbatical.  I need a breather right now.  I wrote a longer explanation
    of this, posted it, and deleted it, because I don't think I was
    expressing myself well.  I will probably be taking a look at this notes
    file without following it so actively, for at least the short term.

    Thanks again to all for your kind words.

    -- Mike

    I'm at DECWORD all this week. While I have net access I don't have
    much time. If any of you are coming in for Employee Day on Friday
    come look me up at "BulletProof Computing Inc."
    
    			Alfred

I will be taking a vacation day on Friday, June 26th.  I should be
back on Monday, Lord willin'.

Richard

    I'll be taking an extended weekend next week.  I'll be out July 1-5.
    Back on the 6th.
    
    Nanci

    I'm leavin' somewhere in the neighborhood of 2nd of July and return ...
    well ... I've got 10 weeks of vacation due and I'll see you when I run
    out of vacation...
    
    Bubba

    Wow -- you may find a lot of DECies gone when you come back --
    if the rumors are even half true!
    
    Have fun!

    Have a great time Bubba!  If you find yourself wanderin' out to the
    East coast don't forget we have a dinner date.  Give me a call. :-)
    
    Karen

    I'm going to be on vacation the next several days, far far away from
    the maddening notes files.  No conflicts, no arguments, no endless
    debates.  I may never come back.  :-)
    
    -- Mike

    Mike,
    
    Have a good time, but...don't go and make forgiveness more difficult 
    than it already is.
    
    :-)
    
    Kb

I'll be on vacation in Indiana until the 15th.  Nothing too metaphysical,
just a family reunion.

				-- Bob

    I'm pretty busy this week. Friday starts 4 weeks of vacation. I'm
    not going anywhere. Call it mental health month. I'm going to try
    not to note during that month though I may check mail once a week 
    or so. Se you in a while.
    
    		Alfred

    Dot and I are off for a week of sailing (Portland, ME -> Mt Desert Is).  
    
    	Peace and good-will to all you noters!
    
    	Shalom,
    
    	Ron
    

I have learned that a contributor here in C-P who went by the name of Playtoe,
Stephen Dothard, is no longer with the company.  I wish for Playtoe good
fortune and much light in whatever direction he chooses from here.

Might God grant that Playtoe comes to realize that it never mattered to us
what color his skin was.

Peace,
Richard

    RE: .130 Richard,
    
    		Very well said.  Thank you Richard.
    
    Dave

    
      
       I'll be out next week moving Elaine and Kenny into our new
      house (Yeah !!!) and I'll be on the road part of the week after
      that, so I probably won't be 'round these parts much for a couple
      weeks.                      

                                                   See Ya Soon

                                                      Mike

    I'm signing out, indefinitely.  It doesn't feel good to be here with
    people showing such intolerance to others' beliefs.  Unfortunately, some
    professed 'Christians' don't seem to share the compassion of Jesus and
    prefer to shout everyone else down.  
    
    Sigh,
    
    Ro
    

    Re: .133
    
    I agree too Ro.....some of the members do come across as very
    intolerant and rather offensive...but...what the heck, we can still
    learn and grow here.
    
    I'll stay..how about you?
    
    Marc H.

Well, Roey,

	I consider this an enormous loss.  It hardly comes as a surprise
though.  I've noticed a couple of others noting less and less here in recent
days.

God be with you - and many blessings,
Richard

I'll be taking a vacation day tomorrow, Friday, August 7th.

May the Lord bless you,
Richard

    I'll be out on vacation or training until August 27th.  Have a good
    month, ya'll!
    
    Nanci
    
    (I think I'm channelling Dave Dawson!  I don't know where that "ya'll"
    came from!)  ;-)

    Been thinking about it long and hard. As of right now, I don't expect
    to be back here (C-P) after my vacation. Been reading topic 9. Doesn't
    look like this is a safe place for Christians of my stripe here
    anymore. I think there are other areas God would have me spend my time
    and energy on these days anyway.
    
    		Alfred

    Re: .138
    
    Alfred, stay awhile.....your comments are useful. I myself am
    not responding much lately. This is due to the "pitbull" type
    comments from a couple of regular members. 
    
    Marc H.

    RE: .138

    	"If everyone is thinking the same, no one is *thinking*!"

    					George S. Patton

    Good grief.  Nothing could be more boring (spell that B-O-R-I-N-G)
    if this degenerates into a mutual admiration society where everyone
    is thinking the same thing and saying the same thing.

    Bubba

    The problem I see here is not one of opposing views, but opposing
    styles.  I see that any serious discussion in this notes file is at
    this point impossible, and for that reason I am signing out.  I know, I
    know, I've signed out before, and I have a hard time staying away, but
    it is clear that in the last few weeks, we have seen an openly declared
    war in this notes file.

    We are told that love is not being "nice".  I would agree with that if
    we define "nice" as being compliant or passive in the face of
    disagreement.  But there is another meaning to "nice", and means
    showing warmth, compassion, and civility to those one disagrees with. 
    That means that you can disagree without knee jerk hostility.  It means
    that you can respect someone despite your differences, you can work
    towards healing and reconciliation with those who don't share your own
    viewpoint.  It means respecting others as human beings.

    I haven't seen much of that lately here.  What I see, justified by the
    "love isn't nice" rationalization, is a lot of overt and unnecessary
    hostility.   In the last few weeks, what I have seen is a behavior of
    treating anyone who disagrees as an enemy.  No effort at community
    building was even attempted; no interpersonal connections were offered. 
    One thing that I have valued about this community is its attempt at
    keeping things on a personal level.  There is something very important
    about showing one's human side, something some people here simply
    refuse to do.  There  are little things that can make a notes file a
    community--which may seem trivial to others, but to me are very
    important--things like small talk, banter, and deigning to address
    others here by name.  

    This presumption of hostility from the very start has been very
    obvious.  There is the readiness to tell others to apologize for any
    perceived or real slight, but never in turn to apologize or admit
    mistakes.  There is the response to sincere inquiries with hostility,
    insinuations of ad hominem attacks and baiting, or simple
    condescension, and yet accompanied in other contexts with attacks
    against the credibility of anyone who presents heretofore unknown
    information.

    If this is the kind of "loving" behavior that is supposed to come out
    of being a Christian, I am thankful that I am not a Christian.

    It is time to move on.  I have better things to do with my life than
    deal with this crap.  

    -- Mike

 Re.141

     Mike:
             It bothers me that you feel you feel unable to continue
            to participate here, but you know what is best for you
            to do.

             I will miss you having you around. Yet I kinda suspect
            you will be back in time.

                                                         Take Care

                                                          Mike    

Note 67.141

>    If this is the kind of "loving" behavior that is supposed to come out
>    of being a Christian, I am thankful that I am not a Christian.

It makes me feel regret that I *am* a Christian.

Dear God - two in one day!  You realize, of course, that the ones who provoked
this will likely claim this to be some kind of victory.

>    It is time to move on.  I have better things to do with my life than
>    deal with this crap.

Amen,
Richard

    Time for some enlightenment ...

    Question: "What do you call a Marine on his knees"?

    Answer: "A Marine who fights on his knees".

    Analogy: It's going to be a cold day in Hell before I get run
             out of here.  You'll have to beat me to smithereens and
             nail the lid on my coffin .. then I'm going to kick the
             lid off and come out fighting again ... 

    This conference isn't going to get rid of me that easily.

    Genr'l Bubba

    RE: .144  Jerry,
    
    			Good for you!
    
    
    Dave

   Bubba,

   Loved that entry.  Good to hear from you.  How was your summer
   vacation?

   Peace,
   Allison

.146> How was your summer vacation?

Twas' nearly a religious experience ... from the Mojave Desert, through
some of the prettiest countryside of Arizona and New Mexico, into West
Texas ... over to East Texas .. down to the Gulf coast ... then to
the hill country of central Texas (Austin) ... then Las Cruces, New
Mexico, Sante Fe ... up to Colorado Springs ... back to Sante Fe ... and
home.

How I love the US of A.  God, how I love it.

Not only that, but, got to meet J_CHRISTIE .. he's just as sane in person
as he is electronically ... now ... that VanFleet person .. that's another
story ...  :-)

Genr'l Bubba

    Signin' out for a couple of weeks, we leave for our long awaited
    honeymoon tomorrow!!!  Be back on the 29th of September.
    
    Ro Reinke
    

    
    	I'll be out for the next two weeks.....DEC training.
    
    
    
    Dave

    I need to take a few days off from thinking about things to do with
    Christianity.  This revelation that the Vatican knew what Father Porter
    was doing has me so upset that I fear I will make a bigger fool of
    myself than I already have.  There are times and places for expressing
    those sorts of feelings, and I dare say this is not a good place to do
    so.  
    
    Mike

Mike (.150),

Can empathize with your feelings on this issue.  It is distressing.

Regards,

Ro

    .150 Mike,
    
    	You'll be missed.  Please return as soon as you feel right about
    it.
    
    Peace,
    Richard
    

    I'm relocating next week to PK03, so please excuse my absence and
    inability to keep up during this time.  I'll check in as much as
    I'm able over the next week or so.
    
    Karen
    
    p.s. I hear ya, Mike.  Take care while you're out, and I look forward
    to your return. 

    I'll be out for awhile.  Problems to sort out.
    
    Marc H.

Marc,

	I hope things work out for you and that you'll be returning soon.

Peace,
Richard

PS I'm beginning to become concerned here about folks checking out.

    RE: .155
    Thanks for the kind words. I needed a break to help me with some
    problems.......prayed and meditated.....feel better again!
    
    Back again.
    
    Marc H.

    Nice to have you back, Marc!
    
    Karen

    Can you please read note 542 in GOLF::CHRISTIAN.  The sentiments
    expressed there apply here just as much.  Sorry I don't know how to
    copy it over.
    
    With Love
    
    
    Brian.
    

Copied, per your request...

            <<< GOLF::DISK$COMMON:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CHRISTIAN.NOTE;2 >>>
           -< ...by Believing, you might have Life more abundantly. >-
================================================================================
Note 542.0                 Aslow build up to Farewell                    1 reply
CHEFS::PICKERINGB "W/W Services"                     48 lines  10-NOV-1992 12:23
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hello, brothers and sisters!
    
    I've been building up to this note for a while, knowing it might take 
    some time to get right.
    
    Not that I am depressed about leaving Digital, but that goodbyes that
    seem final (or at least of uncertain length) are never easy to say.
    
    So I decided to start saying goodbye early!  I'm officially leaving at
    the end of the year, actually Christmas Eve.  I'm taking the UK
    equivalent of SERP.  (Not that anyone can believe I'm over 50, not even
    me - especially me!)  By putting this note in early, it gives me a
    chance to wind down.
    
    I'm going to start two new careers.  The money making one will be in a
    contracting business of my own in Account Management and Change
    Management facilitation etc.  The fun one will be by getting more
    woodwind pupils and conducting bands and orchestras more.
    
    It goes without saying (so I'll say it) that I have really appreciated
    and enjoyed this file and the others I've contributed to.  Thank you
    all for your kindness and help.
    
    Two things I regret:  Firstly, and seriously, I started a note in this
    file to encourage more demonstrations of Christian love among participants
    here.  It never got off the ground.  What a shame, I think we really
    should spend more time on this activity.  Secondly, with a smiley face,
    after 5 years participating, I never got on the birthday list, and
    nobody ever asked me.  Too late now ;-).
    
    I'm posting my home address and telephone number here.  You're always
    welcome to call or write:
    
    Brian Pickering
    Arundel
    2 Dukes Ride
    Ickenham
    Uxbridge  Middlesex
    UB10 8DA   United Kingdom
    
    (44) (0) 895 811458
    
    Still 6 weeks to go, and then the next phase of my life begins.
    
    Love to all,
    
    Brian.
    

    
    
    Sounds wonderful Brian.  Wishing you much happiness in these new
    experiences.
    
    Carole

    With warm wishes that your ministry of love and caring touches 
    many more lives along your new pathways, Brian.
    
    Your efforts in this while at Digital have been valuable and 
    much appreciated.
    
    Thanks for letting us know of the plan.  
    
    Peace and blessings,
    
    Karen

    .158
    
    Brian,
    
    	May God's abundant blessings go with you.
    
    Peace,
    Richard

    Thank you, John, for copying, and everyone else for good wishes.
    
    With love,
    
    Brian.
    

    
    		I'll be in Boston for some training until Dec 13th with
    only limited access to a terminal.
    
    
    Dave

I will be in training Wednesday, December 2nd, through Friday, December 4th.
Most of next week will be quite full for me, also.

Peace be with you,
Richard

    It seems I stayed out of this conference too long.  I just received
    word that after December 11, I will no longer be with mother DEC,
    barring some sort of miraculous reprieve by finding a job somewhere
    within.  I wish I could have resolved my little problem a bit sooner so
    that y'all might have had the benefit of my outrageous entries a bit
    longer.  Alas, it seems that it was not meant to be.  
    
    So, I want to take this opportunity to thank you all for the
    hospitality and courtesy you showed this unregenerate heathen.  I
    especially want to thank those who were kind enough to privately
    express their understanding and compassion to me when I announced my
    temporary departure from this conference a few weeks ago.  Some even
    offered to pray for me, although, as I told them, their prayers would
    be better spent on someone who was not beyond the pale.  Finally,
    please let me express my heartfelt wish that the hopes and dreams for
    the future of all of you will be fulfilled.
    
    Mike

    A most regrettable departure, Mike.  May the light of Christ guide your
    path.  Prayers are never wasted.
    
    Peace,
    Richard
    

   Mike,

   Remember the world is truly smaller then we think, so until
   we meet again fare well and be good.  

   Peace be with you,
   Allison

    Peace to you, Mike.
    
    	Ron
    

Mike,

Have missed your noting here these past few weeks (although I have had 
a chance to read some of your notes in -wn-) and now regrettably won't 
be able to in the future.

Your perspective has been insightful and this notesfile will feel its 
loss.

Best to you,

Ro

    Goodbye and good luck Mike,
    
    
    Bernie

    Good luck Mike! I'm truely sorry to hear about the layoff.
    
    It happened to me once before. It was the pits.......the following year
    though, I landed a good job.
    
    Marc H.

    
    Mike, my heart goes out to you.  I may soon be joining your ranks,
    but until next week or the following week they are keeping us in
    limbo.  Take care and remember it's not too late to pick up the
    pale.  :-)
    
    Jill

    Mike,
    
    I've both enjoyed and learned much from your participation here.
    If your opinions and insights were food for thought, I have had
    a gourmet meal. :-)
    
    May your hopes and dreams be fulfilled, as well.
    
    Peace and many many blessings,
    
    Karen

     I'll miss you Mike, really.  You're not beyond the pale, I'm sure.  As
    long as you're living you can be reconciled to God!
    
    jeff

    No chance God can be reconciled to me, I suppose.  :-)
    
    Mike

    RE: .177
    No you know that that just isn't true.
    
    Marc H.

    Well, I thought it worth a shot, ya know?
    
    Seriously, thank you all for your kind thoughts.  It makes a difficult
    time less difficult when so many people have taken the time to share
    their  feelings.
    
    Mike

    I'll miss you in here, Mike.  
    
    Fare thee well,
    
    Nanci

    
    Wishing you the best, Mike.
    
    Take care,
    
    Carole

    Just got out of my "official" TFSO meeting.  No surprises -- my last
    day will be this Friday.  I'll be popping in and out of here till then,
    though I'm not too sure how much I'll be able to participate.
    
    Karen

    Not you too, Karen?
    
    You heard later, and will be gone earlier than me.
    
    My prayers go with you.
    
    With love,
    
    Brian.
    

	Karen,

	I am saddened that you are leaving. This conference will certainly 
	miss your presence.

	Brian,

	Hopefully I will see you before you go. I understand Andrew will
	be contacting you shortly.

	

	Phil.

    Karen, this is not good news.  Take care, and I hope you are able to
    use this opportunity to your advantage.
    
    Mike

    karen,
    
    I feel that I have gotten to know you through this conference and i
    will miss you.  Somehow though I sense that you will use this 
    opportunity as a gift.  Best of luck.
    
    
                               Patricia

    Karen,
    
    I was hoping you wouldn't get the package; I'll miss your notes -
    which I won't be able to read after Friday myself.
    
    I also just got the package officially.  People are really great trying
    to get things reversed, sending me job postings inside and outside
    Digital and so forth.
    
    Better news yet is that I just called National and 7 of 8 references
    are in and the proccess of compiling our profiles has officially begun!
    Whoopee!  Yay!  National tells me we ought to get them back from them
    in about two weeks and if we like what we see then they go to national
    distribution.
    
    	Peace to all!
    
    	Ron
    

Karen .182,

	I consider your presence integral to the very soul of this conference.
I'm not sure that I even want to continue without you.

Full of sad over this,
Richard

    Thank you so much for the well wishes.  I'm really feeling pretty good
    about this change, even the uncertainty.  Course I'm saying that now. 
    Ask me again tomorrow. :-)
    
    It is sad to leave friends and family behind though.  But I am
    beginning to explore subscriptions to computer services like CompuServe
    that would perhaps allow me to find a pathway back into C-P.  (So who
    knows, Richard?)  It may not be goodbye...just "see you later!" 
    
    If anyone has any information about such services and a few minutes to
    write what you know or recommendations, please drop me a line.  I'd be 
    much obliged! :-)
    
    Thanks and many blessings,
    
    Karen
                                                                  

    I first met Karen electronically after I posted a note in
    GOLF::CHRISTIAN, in which I proposed the creation of a new notes file
    in which Christianity could be discussed without the imposition by the
    moderators of a doctrinal "standard."  I have come to know Karen since
    then as a very special friend.  Not only does she resonate with soul
    and compassion, but she also happens to be a very talented writer.  Her
    calm and reasoned voice here has been a needed presence here, and this
    notes file will not be the same without her.

    We'll miss you, Karen.

    -- Mike

    Karen,  
    
    Good-bye and good luck for the future.  
    
    
    
    Bernie

    Well, folks....I've only been here for a little while, but it seems to
    be time to go.
    
    The temporary requisition I was filling here evaporates Friday.  I was
    led to believe that there would be people in need of support staff
    after last week's office shuffles...turns out someone put in an order
    for a *new* temp req without checking to see if I was available to
    work.
    
    The upshot is I'm out of work Friday, and I seriously doubt there'll be
    another DEC job available any time soon.  
    
    I wish y'all the best -- I've really enjoyed the temper and tone of C-P
    during my short stay....this is a special kind of format.
    
    best wishes,
    
    Daniel

Karen,

I'm sorry to see you go.  The times when I've been able to talk to you
have been all too brief.  I'm sure you'll make a meaningful contribution
anywhere you go in the future - you've certainly been an important part of
Christian-Perspective.

Daniel,

I've enjoyed your notes in the short time you've been contributing here.
Maybe you'll be able to work at Digital again some time, and if you do,
don't forget about C-P!

				-- Bob

Daniel,

Have enjoyed your brief stay here and also reading your notes 
elsewhere.  You remind me a lot of my son and I was hoping to have the 
chance to meet you at one of our 'infrequent' C-P dinners.  Best 
wishes to you in your permanent job search.

Warm regards,

Ro

    Daniel,
    
    You have certainly added a lot to this conference in the short time you
    were here.  I will miss you.
    
    
                                      Patricia

    Daniel - 
    
    I'll miss you...here and elsewhere.
    
    :-(
    
    Take care,
    Nanci

    Daniel,
    
    I sure have enjoyed your entries as well, and wish you the very best.
    I only wish you'd been able to be with us longer, much longer.
    
    Karen

    Thank you all for being part an important part of my faith journey over
    these last couple of years.  Overall, I've enjoyed my time here
    tremendously, :-) especially serving as and working with the moderators 
    to help create and foster a forum where issues pertaining to Christianity 
    can be discussed openly and candidly.  
    
    I wish you all a very happy and joyous Holiday season and that you are
    blessed with good health and spiritual fulfillment throughout the New
    Year.
    
    I've not quite identified where I stand "doctrinally."  Christianity
    speaks to me very deeply, as does the Goddess-based religions, and the
    spirituality of Native Americans and other indigenous peoples.  So I
    will just say,
    
    May God, Goddess and the Great Spirit bless you and all your relations.
    And in the spirit of the Cosmic Christ, be gentle and kind to each other, 
    to the Earth, and all that lives and breathes.
    
    Peace,
                                             
    Karen 

    Quick panic mode for me here.  The panic is that I've been waiting to
    have this be my last notefile to enter my last note.  It's 4:23 and my
    account is being turned off at 5:00.  Meanwhile some late breaking news
    is that I just received a verbal offer w/i Digital to the midwest.
    
    The fax has to be received and accepted by me within 35 minutes.
    
    If I run out of time to send a note; - God I feel like Martha and Mary
    - well, I'll send something via email on Compuserve.
    
    Love ya!
    
    	Ron
    

    This is where I wish to be when the plug gets pulled - no place else.
    
    My account will expire; how sweet the death.
    
    	Your brother in Christ,
    
    	Ron
    
    ps: seventeen minutes to go.
    

    Well, this is it.  When I log out of here, I am gone. 
    
    Thank you all for your stimulating conversation and your provocative
    points of view.  If nothing else, it has been extremely educational.
    
    But yet, there has been more.  What else has happened is that I gained
    a greater appreciation of the Christian way of life as it is practiced
    in the 1990's.  
    
    Take care of yourselves, everyone. My thoughts are with you all, and I
    hope you are all able to enjoy the holidays to the fullest in whatever
    way makes sense to you.
    
    Bye!
    
    Mike

Ron,

I realize you might never see this.  I sometimes had the feeling that perhaps
C-P meant more to you than it means to even me.  I always felt good about
that - that C-P was not simply self-serving, but a real ministry to others.

Though we've never met face to face, I'm very sad to see your departure.

Shalom, Friend,

Richard

    This is incredible.  What a great group of friends I have that just
    refused to stop supporting me to the fullest.
    
    On Friday morning around 9:15am one of my colleagues, Charles Lewis,
    copied another person and myself on four openings in the south central
    region.  I immediately called the recruiter who was home with a sick
    child and so I spoke to the secretary.  I stressed that this was an
    URGENT request in that I was history if I didn't have a written and
    accepted offer by 5:00pm.
    
    I said I would email a copy of my resume - and then realized that I had
    JUST deleted it and all my other files just ten minutes before this
    call.  I then remembered I had a hard copy I had been using to send off
    to companies outside Digital and so I fax'd it off.  
    
    Having little hope about being able to do anything with this very faint
    opportunity, I deleted the email which described the job opening.
    
    My group took me to lunch and we shared stories, hugs, hopes and I
    talked more about the shared ministry and our plans.  The group
    presented me with a really nice sailing calendar, a generous gift
    certificate to a local bookstore and a nice and thoughtful card.  We
    lunched from 11:30 to 1:15 or so,
    
    Five minutes before going to lunch, I received my termination or exit
    interview with my manager and my personnel representative.
    
    When I got back to my office, a note was on my desk stating that I had
    an urgent need to call a number somewhere in the south central region. 
    I called and talked with the technical manager (I think).  He had read
    my resume and wanted to set up an interview with me to go to Dallas
    NEXT week!  I said, "Thanks, but I'm history at 5:00pm".
    
    He asked me to wait a moment and then he opened up a conference call. 
    He asked me to say some things about myself and then ten or fifteen
    minutes later he said I just went from being one of the many, many
    resumes to the one that was on top of his list.  I was in first place.
    
    I asked if he would like to speak with my manager and so they entered a
    fifteen minute conversation as my manager went to his office and closed
    his door so as not to be disturbed.
    
    Believbe me, I could go on and on with this.  My account got
    "dis-usered" at 5:00pm, I turned in my telephone card, the personnel
    rep stayed long in the evening to put closure on this.
    
    I accepted the offer BEFORE seeing it.  The offer letter has a time
    stamp on it of 4:23pm on December 11th.  God works in very mysterious
    ways.  If you back up a few replies from here, you'll notice that I
    time-stamped my death notice from Digital at 4:23pm!
    
    So, we are moving to Dallas (we had a choice of Dallas, Houston or
    Kansas City) and will begin the search for a church in that area.  I
    checked my national listings resource guide and found six hiring UCC
    churches in Texas, most near Houston.  I tsure would be interesting if
    there is a need for a new church startup in Dallas!
    
    Dot is GREAT!!!  She sees this as an opportunity to discover things we
    would otherwise never have a chance to discover.  It may also make it
    easier for us to get a church position as we will not have to locate
    and split one senior pastgor's position but can search for an entry
    level position and split that as co-pastors.
    
    This past weekend was one which touched me deeply as we had friends and
    family calling, visiting, praying.  We were being held by so many
    loving hands from so many different locations.  My hiring manager who
    is on a three year assignment for Digital in Valbonne came to visit us
    Saturday morning.  He's become a really close friend since hiring me a
    little more than four years ago.  He read scripture at our wedding and
    I read scripture at his.
    
    Richard, you are correct when you stated in .-1 that this notesfile is
    important to me.  It is where I have shared my beliefs, my ordination
    paper, several sermons.  It is a medium where I see God working through
    others, often in heated debate, to help us know ourselves better, to
    offer comfort, warmth, love.
    
    I also received another call Saturday from one of the co-pastors in a
    Presbyterian startup church in Easton Massachusette.  They extended an
    offer to Dot and myself to preach and lead worship the Sunday after
    Christmas.  This is going to be FUN!  Dot is already preaching that
    Sunday in Nortboro and I've accepted the offer to preach in Easton. 
    This is going to be FUN because we will both be using the lectionary
    and will have our own separate and different sermons!  I think this is
    NEAT!
    
    Thanks to all of you and prayers to all who were not as fortunate as I
    in being able to stay with Digital.
    
    	Shalom,
    
    	Ron
    

    Ron, that is absolutely wonderful news.
    
    -- Mike

    Ron,
    
    It's great to feel the excitement in your note.  The world really is
    full of miracles.
    
    
                                  love and peace
    
    
                                  Patricia

    
    That's terrific Ron!  I love when things like this happen!
    
    Carole

Ron .203,

	This *is* incredible!  I guess this might mean that God wasn't
finished ministering through you to us here. ;-)

	Glory to God in the highest!

Shalom,
Richard

    Thanks to all of you and thanks FOR all of you (if I can redirect my
    thanks!).
    
    Hey, Richard - just how far is it half way to Colorado Springs from
    Dallas?  Or, is the trip by car from MA to Dallas going to take us thru 
    Colorado Springs?
    
    Also, what's religion like in Dallas?  Seeriously, are people just like
    people in MA or am I more apt to meet people from (my stereotypical
    estimate) those of the Southern Baptist tradition?  Are people willing
    and wanting to listen to fresh interpretation of scripture or are they 
    set in their ways.  Are they open and affirming or of the type where
    "MY way is THE way"?
    
    Dot is a wonderful woman and looks at this as a new opportunity to
    discover things about others and ourselves that probably would have
    gone undiscovered without such a move.
    
    I guess its apropos during this season to say "Yes, it's a wonderful
    life!" - and wife!
    
    	Shalom,
    
    	Ron
    
    ps: BTW, Richard, there is NO way we are not going to meet you as we 
        travel to Dallas!  And this from one who NEVER speaks with double
        negatives!  No way, never!
    

    Ron,
    
    This is a fantastic story.  Worth a special prayer of praise and
    thanksgiving.
    
    Well done,
    
    With love,
    
    Brian.
    

Note 67.208

>    Hey, Richard - just how far is it half way to Colorado Springs from
>    Dallas?  Or, is the trip by car from MA to Dallas going to take us thru 
>    Colorado Springs?

I would say that Colorado Springs would be more than a little out of your
way, Ron.

>    Also, what's religion like in Dallas?

Ooooo!  I've heard that Texans tends to be a pretty conservative bunch,
theologically speaking.  But here, I suspect Bubba or Dave may have first-hand
knowledge.
    
>    ps: BTW, Richard, there is NO way we are not going to meet you as we 
>        travel to Dallas!  And this from one who NEVER speaks with double
>        negatives!  No way, never!

I'm truly delighted by your enthusiasm and I would certainly welcome the
opportunity to meet you and Dot.  But again, Dallas is more than a
hop, a skip and a jump away from the Springs.

Shalom,
Richard

    re .-1
    
    I just had my first conversation with my new manager and found that I
    will be supporting 22 states - and she mentioned Colorado Springs! 
    Where there's a will ...
    
    	Ya not getting off that easy, pardner!
    
    	Ron
    

.211

Okay, then.  You are on, Ron Francey!

Peace,
Richard

    Ron,
    
    Delighted to read your news.   Good luck in your new position.
    
    
    
    Bernie
    

    Great news, Ron!  :-)
    
    By the way - I'm still here (for the time being anyway).  We lost 4 
    people at this site and 4 in Atlanta.  It's been quite a rollercoaster
    ride!  I went home on Monday feeling like I'd just spent the past few
    weeks on the loop-de-loop!
    
    Thanks for all of your support!  
    
    Nanci

    GREAT news, Nanci!
    
    	Peace,
    
    	Ron
    

Nanci,

	I'm glad you're still with us.

	I guess I'm seeing the glass as half empty, though.  I find myself
missing Nancy Smith and Karen Berggren a lot the last few days.

Peace,
Richard

    This is probably my last entry.
    
    I'll be reading until Thursday, though.  (see 67.159)
    
    Love to all, keep your perspective, and most important, your faith.
    
    See you soon.
    
    With love,
    
    Brian.

    All the best to you, Brian.  We'll remember you with love.
    
    Peace,
    Richard
    

   Goodbye friends,

   In my journey I have seen and done many things both good and bad,
   the bad I regret.  I have resigned as moderator to this conference.
   It would be easy as readily accepted to say workload and let it
   slide, it would be a lie.

   Throughout my life I've had to live listening to religion.  What 
   I've heard is a constant source of pain to my life.  I recognise
   the value of excision to correct pain and removing this conference
   our at least some of it's members that represent that pain is
   esential to my continued health.  It is a continous pain having
   people tell me what I am, they haven't a clue.  Yet they would 
   fix me  Their achievements have only made my life 10000 fold more
   difficult.

   Next month I will have the honor of celebrating my 40th year on
   this planet, and for every day of those that I can remember I asked
   why am I here, for what reason is this gift mine.  I call it a gift
   now, it was a curse.  I still believe I'm here and [HP goes here] 
   has a reason and a plan for me.  What, I'm not certain save for I
   have to continue a process that teaches me.

   It's to soon for me to lok back at his place as say if it was a high
   point, or personal foolishness.  Only time will tell me.

   To all of you I will say this, go in peace, give your love and may
   God love you.

   Peace,
   Allison

    Allison,
    
    		I am sorry.  I knew when I asked you to consider this job
    that it would involve a lot of "hurtful" things.  I did *NOT* however
    think that it would be as condemming as it has been.  This conference
    is not what I had hoped it would/could be....a place of safety for
    non-Christians to ask questions and recieve understanding and
    thoughtful answers.  To some, Christianity is the only safety net they
    have ever known and so when someone asks questions their reaction is
    one of "protection" in harsh and sometimes angry terms.  This reaction
    by Christians, IMHO, has only served to polorize the non-Christians and
    the Christians to my deep sadness.  I cannot and will never believe
    that this is God's will.  
    
    		I consider you a friend and I hope you do also.
    
    
    Dave

    
    		I'll be out for this next week in El Paso Texas.
    
    
    Dave

    Allison,
     I would *hope* that you stay....make it read only for awhile, if that
    is needed. I know that I have thought of leaving myself, but, there
    are too many good people in here.
    *ILLEGITIMI NON CARBORUNDUM*
    
    Marc H.

I will only be able to interface with the conference only briefly this week
myself.

I will be preaching this coming Sunday at church.  My pastor has requested
some time off on short notice.  Plus I have a number of other time consuming
commitments to fulfill.

Allison - I understand your resignation.  I don't like it, but I understand
it.  Thanks for all your help here.  In spite of what you may have heard, we
really do appreciate you.  God be with you.

Peace,
Richard

Oh Allison, I do understand why you are leaving.  I've checked out 
myself a couple of times due to the lack of compassion shown here by 
some.  I spent this lunch time mulling over what I could say
to allow people to *see* things from another perspective.  I don't 
know the words to reach them because if you're sharing hasn't touched 
them -- allowed them to see that we are all One -- then there isn't 
anything I can add.  They have lost something very precious in their 
callous *righteousness*.

Know that you have made a lasting impression on me and opened 
my heart to greater understanding.

Love to you...you will be deeply missed.  Hoping our paths cross 
again...

Ro

    Allison,
    
    I too admire your strenghth and courage.  I pray for a world in which
    all people will be treated with respect and dignity and no religion
    will be used to abuse others.  Take care.  I too hope our paths cross
    again.
    
    love and peace
    
    Patricia

    Allison - 
    
    I will miss you like crazy in here.  There has been so much that I've
    learned through some of the struggles I've seen you going through in
    here in your relationship with God and your own spiritual center.  
    
    Still, I can understand why you feel it's necessary to leave.
    
    As Ro mentioned, I've been thinking a lot about perspective in regards
    to this conference.  For me it hasn't been so much a matter of finding
    a more effective way of presenting *my* perspective but finding a way
    to stay aligned with what my perspective is while still allowing
    others' theirs.  Sometimes it seems that a lot of the comments in here
    and in society as a whole (ex: Ammendment 2) are directly opposed to 
    what I believe God's perspective to be and it's hard not to let that 
    influence my thinking.  It's hard to focus on the truth in your heart
    when it seems somebody's constantly in your face telling you something
    diametrically opposed to that truth.  However, wasn't that what the
    Pharisees were doing to Jesus?  Sometimes it takes anger to get past it
    and sometimes it takes passive resistance.  Do whatever it is that
    works for you.  The value that you've left this conference by your
    willingness to share and be here for us will not fade.
    
    Thank you, my friend.
    
    big hugs,
    
    Nanci

    
    Haven't been reading this file recently, and am really sorry to find
    that you are leaving, Allison.  I have enjoyed your postings and
    learned much through your sharing.  
    
    Peace and blessings on your journey!
    
    Carole

Today is my last day in the office until March 1st.  My husband and I 
are leaving tomorrow on a pilgrimage to the sacred sites of England. 
We are honored to have our dear friend, C-P'er Carole Fretts as our 
traveling companion on this spiritual journey.  

Ro

    What sites are you visiting, Ro?
    
    Marc H.

As an Anglican, be sure you go to the Holy Well of Our Lady of Walsingham;
this is one of the most important pilgrimage sites in all of Europe.

It was destroyed by Henry VIII (even though he had earlier been a pilgrim
there himself, having even made the traditional barefoot walk).

Over the past 100 years it has been rebuilt in splendor.

/john

Marc, 

Will be visiting places such as Glastonbury, Land's End, Tintagel,
Stonehenge, Avebury and some lesser know sites as well. 

Thanks John for the info about Our Lady of Walsingham.  I didn't see
it listed in the resource book I bought, "The Traveller's Guide to
Sacred England" by John Mitchell.  I'll check it when I get home as I
haven't read the book in its entirety as yet.  Do you know where in 
England it is located?

There are two wells in England that we had planned on visiting.  One
is St. Keyne's and the other is that of her sister, St. Morwenna. They
were two of 26 children of the Welsh king, Brychan; 25 of his children
became saints!  I'm particularly drawn to St. Keyne's Well as she
reminds me of my daughter, Kendra, who at 15 is a great crusader of
women's rights and the environment. 

The story of St. Keyne's Well

Southward from Liskeard in East Cornwall runs the beautiful wooded
valley of the River Looe.  Alongside the river is a delightful little
railway nine miles long, from Liskeard to the harbor and resort of
Looe.  One of its small stations is St. Keyne, which serves the
village about a mile to the west.  Halfway between the station and the
village church, on the left of the road, is the once famous well of
St. Keyne.  It is no longer as picturesque as it was in the nineteenth
century when John T. Blight made his drawing; the nearby cottages and
the trees which shaded it are no more.  However, it is well restored
and its waters are pure and refreshing. 

The remarkable property of the well is to give the first of any 
couple who drinks its water the upper hand in marriage.  This belief 
was celebrated by the poet Robert Southey in verses about a newly 
wedded husband who, immediately after the marriage service, ran from 
the church so as to be the first to drink from St. Keyne's well -- 
only to find out later that his bride had take a bottle of the water 
to the church with her.

St. Keyne was a fifth-century champion of women's rights.  She was 
extremely beautiful, and on her missionary and miracle-working journeys 
she was much harassed by amorous men.  The 'strength of her 
purity,' however, preserved her from injury and insult.  When she 
retired to a spot in the valley near her well, she endowed the water 
with its peculiar virtue in order to assist brides to prevail over 
their husbands. The well was once once of the natural wonders of 
Cornwall because St. Keyne planted a tree root beside it, from which 
grew four sacred trees, an oak, an ash, an elm, and a willow.  Three 
of them feel during a storm in 1703, and others planted to replace 
them, but they no longer thrive.

-----------------------

I found another passage about St. Keyne in the section of St. 
Michael's Mount:

... Another spring is said to have gushed forth when St. Keyne made 
her pilgrimage to the Mount in 490.  A memento of her visit is a 
recess in the rock at the summit of a high precipice, called St. 
Keyne's Chair.  It had the same property as her well, that whichever 
one of a couple first sat it it would be the dominant partner.  
Visitors in the nineteenth century were terrified at seeing young men 
and women risk a fatal fall by climbing into and out of the chair.

-------------------------------

As newly-weds, my husband and I plan to drink from a shared cup the
water of St. Keyne's well!  ;') 

Ro

re Our Lady of Walsingham -- see 264.14.

Lenten Fast about to begin.

Delete Entry Soapbox
Delete Entry Massachusetts
Delete Entry New_Hampshire
Delete Entry Christian
Delete Entry Christian_Perspective
Delete Entry Bagels
Delete Entry Deutsch
Unsubscribe Catholic
Unsubscribe Anglican

/john

    RE: .234
    
    What does Lent have to do with deleting Christian_Perspective?
    
    Sapbox.....Yes,Massachusetts...Yes, but Christian subjects?
    
    Marc H.

re.235

>    Sapbox

	8*)

ace

re Note 67.234 by COVERT::COVERT:

> Delete Entry Christian_Perspective

        Unless you have a non-standard entry name for the conference
        in your notebook, you will need:

	        Delete Entry Christian-Perspective

Bob

re Note 67.235 by JUPITR::HILDEBRANT:

>     What does Lent have to do with deleting Christian_Perspective?
>     
>     Sapbox.....Yes,Massachusetts...Yes, but Christian subjects?

        It makes one wonder whether one should consider giving up
        Lenten observance for Lent. :-)

        Bob

    RE: .234 
    
    ... there is a God.
    
    
    
    

    On a vacation day tomorrow.
    
    Richard
    

 
    Although I certainly haven't been very active in this conference
   over the past year, I still felt it would be impolite of me to leave
   without saying goodbye.

    Friday will be my last day with DEC. Some of you are probably aware
   that the facility I work at is being closed down. In fact I wouldn't
   be surprised if some of thought I'd already left.

    This last year has been incredibly busy and the demands upon my time
   haven't really allowed me the luxury of participating here as much
   as would have liked. I have been able to keep up with CP as a "read
   only" and even this limited form of participation has been very
   beneficial in broadening my understanding and increasing my appreciation
   of the Christian experience.

    Although I have had differences of opinion with some of you I will miss
  CP a great deal. All of you have impressed me as kind, decent people who
  seek the truth as you go through life.

    As some of you may recall I became a father about this time last year.
  Many times in the last few months I've wondered what kind of world my son
  is going to grow up in. When I think of the people in this conference
  I'm optimistic about the world he'll grow up in. 

    I don't have any profound parting thoughts to leave you with. Enjoy
  what you have in this conference. Take the time to appreciate it and
  more importantly appreciate your fellow noters in CP who take the risk
  of opening up their hearts about their spiritual life. 

   I feel I am a better person because of what others have been willing
  to share in this conference. I do not know if I'll get another chance
  to put in another reply before I leave. I wish you all the very best.
  It has been a pleasure to participate here and to have had the opportunity
  to be associated with a group of such fine individuals. Thank you very
  much for what you have given me over the past couple of years.


                                                               Goodbye,

                                                               Mike

    Shalom!
    
    	Ron
    

    
    Wishing you much happiness on your continuing life's journey, Mike.
    
    Take care.
    
    Carole

Mike,

Have enjoyed your sharing here.  You will be missed...

Ro

    Mike,
    
    Parting is sad.  Peace and all good be with you, our most favorite
    Zen Buddhist participant and friend.
    
    Richard
    

    Mike - 
    
    I'll miss you in here, silent or not.  All the best on your continuing
    journey.
    
    Nanci

    Good bye Mike.  I have enjoyed our brief association.
    
    
    Dave

    Goodbye Mike and best of luck
    
    
    Patricia

    
    my turn to be away from this conference.
    
    peter

    God be with you, Peter.  I pray you'll be rejoining this fellowship
    before long.
    
    Peace,
    Richard
    

Peter (.249),

Will miss you Peter!  Hope it won't be for a long period, please keep 
in touch.


Welcome back, /john Covert (91.2730),

Is Lent over already?  I thought it didn't end till Friday and was 
surprised to see you back!  I had admired that you kept to your Lenten 
pledge not to write in C-P during Lent.  Does Holy Week officially end 
Lent and not Good Friday, is that why you are writing again?  

BTW, I did notice you hanging out in -wn- in the Christian-related
topics.  8^) 

Ro

    Saw him there too. I think that you add to this conference in your
    own way, john. Welcome back.
    
    Marc H.

    .251
    
    Ro, I noticed John Covert's notes were all time stamped with
    Sunday's date.  I think that possibly Sundays are excluded from
    Lent.  Possibly Sundays are exempt from Lenten sacrifices.
    
    Richard
    

I will be taking a vacation day on Friday, April 9th.

I hope to participate in the Way of the Cross/Way of Justice
as announced in Note 5.53.

Joy to you at Easter.

Peace,
Richard

	I will be out Thursday and Friday, April 15th and 16th.

Peace,
Richard

Although I would like to stay and continue discussions, I will
be absent from this (and other) notes conferences for a time
while I concentrate on other activities.  Sorry for the
strings that I have left in mid-discussion.  Thank you all
for the concerns shared about my wife; indeed she normally
does quite well (and is doing well now).

I hope a time will come when I can rejoin you.

Collis

    .256  You will be missed, Collis!  You keep us on our toes!
    
    See you again when circumstances allow, I hope.
    
    Richard
    

    You shall indeed be missed Collis .. I regret your temporary departure
    and look forward to your return.
    
    Bubba

    Take care, Collis...hope to see you here again before I leave DEC..
    
    Daniel

        I do hope you can come back before long, Collis.

        Bob

Collis,

Don't leave me! You're one of the few of what I would consider to be a
fundamentalist or evangelical (I don't remember which you prefer, please use
it) that will discuss your beliefs in a logical manner with me. We will never
agree, but I have enjoyed the dialog, as I hope you have also.

Steve

Will miss you Collis!!  As the Artful Dodger sings to Oliver 'fare 
thee well but be back soon'!  ;')

Ro

    I am planning on going read-only for a while.  This is my self-imposed
    penance, out of guilt for arguing too much in this notes file.  I am
    sure that I will be back, though, at some point soon.
    
    -- Mike

    
    	Collis and Mike going underground...
    
    	I hope this isn't contagious...
    
    
    			Juan

    Collis and Mike,
    
    I wish you both the highest and best.  
    
    Ruth

 I decided last week that its time for me to curtail my participation
 here.  So, for now, adios.






 Jim

    .266
    
    Fare thee well, Jim.  And happy moderating in the Bible conference!
    
    Richard

    
    		Much to the pleasure of many here, ;-), I'll be out for two
    weeks starting saturday for a much needed time for inner reflection.  I
    really have no idea what I'm going to do but I a gonna do it!  Ya'll
    take care.
    
    Dave

Will miss ya, Dave.

Enjoy your time away...

Ro

    May it be a time of healing, rejuvenation, and insight for you, Dave.
    
    Richard
    

    Time constraints being what they are, I need to do a "downgrade" ;-) to
    Read Only mode for a bit...hopefully things will lighten up a bit after
    our audit is done.
    
    I ought to be back before I leave DEC, though! (July 30th)
    
    Daniel (still here, just *real* quiet like... 8-> )

Before Jerry departed, he sent a mail message to the MODs of C-P.  I don't
think Jerry'd mind if I share the following portion of that message with
everyone here:

    'There are not adequate words to convey what my association with CP has
    done for me.  One of my basic reasons for "rejecting" the faith of my
    youth was the simple fact that a difference of opinion was not allowed
    - much less discussed.  This conference has taught me that it is
    indeed allowed and we can all learn from discussion of these differences.

    I will in fact return to the church when I get settled down in my new
    life.  This is a promise I made to myself.

    Luv' ya' gang ...

    Forever "Bubba"'

Yup; I'm not surprised.  We loved him and he loved us.  Guess where the love 
came from.

	Peace (from Geneva, NY),

	Ron

    I've heard that Dorian Brooks has been raptured from our midst, in a
    manner of speaking.
    
    We need not worry further about her contaminating us with heretical
    notions, eh?
    
    Richard
    

I'll be on vacation (visiting my sister & niece) starting tomorrow.
I'll be back in August.

Peace,

Jim

    May God be with you and keep you safe, Jim!
    
    Richard

It has been reported elsewhere that today was Mike Valenza's last day.

    re: 277
    
    Mike is a guy I am going to miss as a fellow noter. His well reasoned
    entries and his very pointed wit were a great plus for CP. We can be
    happy that he gave so much to us.
    
    BUT:
    >...today was Mike Valenza's last day.
    
    That makes it sound worse than it is.  ;-)  I hope he has many, happy,
    days remaining.
    
    Greetings, Derek.
     

 I'll miss him too and am rather shocked to hear of his departure.  While
 we may disagree on a number of spiritual issues, I enjoyed his wit immensely.




Jim

    
    
    Hello all,
    
    Just wanted to let you know that as of Monday, 8/9, I'll be TFSO'd
    from DEC after almost 18 years.  I look forward to this as I
    know there is other work for me to do and it is time.
    
    I wish you all well as you continue your life's journey toward the
    Heart of God.
    
    Love,
    Carole

    
    		Goodbye Carole. :-( 
    
    
    Dave

    Goodbye, Mike V.!
    
    Goodbye, Carole!
    
    I'm out for an indefinate period of time myself.  I will miss our
    richly varied fellowship immensely.
    
    Richard
    

    I'm going to be out for an indefinate amount of time. This file has
    just lost its original "feeling". Debating gun laws vs Bible quotes
    was the last straw. 
    
    See you.....
    
    Marc S. Hildebrant

    Marc,
    
    So what is your issue with discussing gun laws and bible quotes.  The
    bible quotes were a response to Alfred's question as to why it was a
    theological issue.  Do you disagree that using guns to shoot someone
    for whatever reason is a theological issue?  
    
                                        Patricia

    Well; I'm sorry to say that I'm also out of this notefile.  I've been
    more or a reader for the past year or so and yet fondly remember
    earlier times when meeting new friends through this medium.  Perhaps
    there have been too many TFSOs, too many people leaving the company for
    one reason or another; perhaps I've offended too many people - if so,
    I'm sorry for that.
    
    I also admit that I miss the congeniality of Richard J_Christie and of
    his ernest attempt to moderate this conference.
    
    Peace to all of you, your families.  God be with you all.
    
    	Shalom!
    
    	Ron
    

    Marc & Ron,
    
    			I am sorry that both of you feel the need to leave.
    I have sometimes thought that myself however I still believe that a
    place like CP is needed hence I'm staying.  Ron, I also miss Richard 
    as I do a lot of others that used to be here.  I really doubt that you
    have offended anyone.  To both of you....Good luck.
    
    
    Dave

    Does anyone know why Richard is out for a while?
    
    			Alfred

I'm back for a while.  I may or may not have much
involvement here depending on a number of factors.  If
things stay relatively quiet in this notes conference,
then I'll probably be somewhat involved.

Collis

    I'm glad to see you back, Collis.  Yes, I mean it! :-)
    
    Richard
    

    I've been picked for this round of TFSO.  My long goodbye note is in
    DIGITAL 2658 and a few other conferences.  A personal message for
    CHRISTIAN-PERSPECTIVE below.

    My only wish here has been to define and defend my faith which I
    believe to serve the purpose of my life which is to return to a loving
    God in living a life in the imitation of His Son.  I hope that even in
    disagreement I was insightful or at least entertaining.

    For the greater glory of God,

    Patrick Sweeney

    I'm going to miss you, Patrick.  Vaya con Dios.
    
    Richard
    

    Take care of yourself, Pat.

    Let good things happen. (to yourself)

    Tom

God bless you, Patrick

I never know what to say when someone leaves.

I haven't often agreed with you, Patrick (an understatement!) but at least
I've enjoyed the challenge of refuting what you've written.  Good luck
in your future endeavors, both religious and professional.

				-- Bob

    TFSO just has to be one of the nastiest 4-letter-words in the English
    language.  When I hear it applied to folks like Patrick, a whole lot
    more of them come to mind.
    
    Take care, Patrick.  CP (and a few other conferences) are going to be
    a whole lot poorer without you and, since I have come to count CP as
    part of my wealth, I will miss you.
    
    Very special greetings, Derek.

    Good to see Ron Francey and Jim Richard both hereabout again!
    
    Peace,
    Richard

    I have accepted another job outside of Digital.  My last day here will
    be Oct 29.  
    
    Thank you all for all you've taught me individually and collectively.
    
    Be kind to each other,
    
    Nanci

    This is a sad thing, Nanci.  And yet I know it opens up all kinds
    of new doors and directions for you.  And so we have reason to
    celebrate.
    
    Love and peace be with you always.
    
    Richard

    I wish I could have said goodbye to Nanci. How sad she is leaving.
    So many people have left, Karen, Ro, how many others, and now
    Nanci, too. If anyone talks to her, please wish her the very best
    for me, and ask her to stay in touch if she can.
    
    Eileen
    

   I am deleting this conference from my notebook after entering this note.


   
    


    May God reveal His truth to each who note here.




   Jim

    .300 Jim,
    
    	Gosh, I hate to see you go.  I'm glad you shared what you shared
    here.  I thought yours was an important voice to be heard.  I wish you
    every blessing and success in all that you do and all that you are
    still becoming.
    
    In Christ Jesus,
    Richard

    Hi All,

    As some of you know, I'll soon be leaving DEC.  I will dearly miss all
    of you and these wonderful notes conferences.

    I've been looking around for other online forums and have recently
    found America Online (AOL).  It is fairly inexpensive and there are
    some *very* interesting conversations going on in the Ethics and
    Debate:Christianity" forum.

    In particular, a writer with the online moniker "Cerberus" has got both
    the atheists and the fundamentalists howling.

    I think you all would really enjoy his postings.  They are...brilliant.

    Anyhow, if any of you join up--see if you can figure out which notes are
    mine.  We all go by pseudonyms.  I'll give you a clue:  I'm not
    Planeman or TooTrue.

    I think AOL has a deal where they'll give you 10 free hours if you sign
    up now.

    Love to see you there,

    Ruth

    I'm following Big Bob's advise and taking the next two
    weeks off.

    Have a good Christmas, everybody!!!  (Even if you don't
    celebrate it as such, I hope you find peace and Love 
    wherever you look)

    Love!
    Tom

I'll be on vacation starting tomorrow.  I'll be back on the 30th.

				-- Bob

    I'll be on vacation until the first of the new year myself. First
    time my wife, son and I all have vacation at the same time in about
    a year and a half. And boy do we need it.
    
    			Alfred

I will be out of commission for the next few days.  That should provide
at least a couple of participants opportunity to discuss topics other than my
(probably sinful) noting style and theology.

God bless you all,
Richard

PS  I am appointing Eric Myer to speak in my stead.  (Just kidding)

    Still praying for you Richard.  Remembered you this morning. 
    
    God Bless,
    Nancy
    
    P.S.
    Well since Richard's leaving, so am I. :-)  And Patricia can speak in
    my stead. :-) [See Patricia I do love you]
    
    

    PPS  My absence might be construed as "the ultimate in back-peddling"
    to some.  But in fact, I announced this absence to my co-moderators
    offline a few weeks ago.
    
    Peace to all,
    Richard
    

    Nancy,
    
    You mean you really want me to speak for you.  Wow.  I may volunteer
    you to preach a sermon.  
    
    Patricia

    Patricia,
    
    Perhaps in the exuberance of exchanges, my heart doesn't show through
    too very well, but I do have a very tender heart... :-)  And I do care
    about you.. but er, uh, me, *preach*... naw, I affeared I might get to
    like it too much. :-) :-) :-)
    
    mft mftmft mff mtt mft [muzzled]
    
    Nancy

    Things have really heated up in my personal life (dry heat, no steam)
    and I expect things to heat up at work soon.  My noting will probably
    be much curtailed.

    Blessings and Love,
    Tom

    Besides being (physically) sick and tired I've got a lot to do
    between now and Tuesday when I'll be on "vacation." So expect
    me to be invisible for the next 10 days or so.

    		Alfred

    PS: Vacation is in quotes because I'm taking vacation time to help
    my mother in law find a new trailer park to move her trailer to. I
    don't expect it to be an easy trip. Please pray for this effort.
    Thanks.

    
    Will do, Alfred.  Best wishes to you.
    
    Cindy

    God bless and be with you, Alfred.
    
    Richard
    

    I will not be checking in on Monday, January 24th.
    
    "See" you Tuesday!
    
    God bless you,
    Richard
    

I've heard offline from Ruth Fannin (See Note 67.302), a most extraordinary
young woman -- intelligent, talented, attractive and deeply spiritual.  Her
time at Digital is drawing short.

I pray for her every success and joy.  I, for one, will miss her lively
commentary and thought-provoking perspectives.

Shalom,
Richard

    
    This should probably go in another note, but I can't locate it...
    
    I'm busy beyond belief here at work, and won't be reading/contributing
    for the next week or so, beyond a brief visit here and there.....
    
    Cindy

    I know that there is a note on comings and goings but I could not find
    it.  I am going to be leaving this file at least for a while.
    
    I want to thank all of you for noting with me and for the many things I
    have learned while noting here.
    
    Patricia

I'm signing out of here at least for a while.  



Jim




Matthew 7:13-27

    Farewell and God be with you, Patricia and Jim.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

    
    Going on vacation - back in a week or so.
    
    God bless,
    
    Cindy

    I too am going on vacation for the week.  
    
    

    	I shall be taking a short rest in hospital (nothing serious)
    	starting next week for an undetermined period.
    
    	Maybe they can do something about my senility while I'm there. :-)
    
    	I'll miss you!
    
    	Greetings, Derek.

    .323  May you return with new vigor, Derek.
    
    Richard
    

	Well, Richard, I'm not too sure about the new vigour, but I did return.
	Things were a little worse than I had allowed myself to believe, but I
	have good doctors and I'm sure they will knock me back into shape.

	In the meantime: hello fellow noters.

	Greetings, Derek.

    welcome back Derek.
    
    Patricia

    .325  Indeed, welcome back, Derek.
    
    Richard
    

I've been advised offline that due to deadline pressures, Cindy Painter
will not be able to even peek in on this file until at least next week.

Peace,
Richard

Time for me to call it a day in here for a while...(again)





Jim

    Hurry back, now, y'hear?
    
    God be with you,
    Richard
    

    I'm in class this week and it looks like a conference that I moderate
    will suck up all available Notes time. See you in a week.
    
    		Alfred

    Fare thee well, Alfred.  See thee soon, Lord willing.
    
    Richard
    

    I have been told that I'm history. I have a few resumes floating
    around the company but I don't expect much from them. Unless something
    changes, I will be shaking the Digital dust off my shoes in about 2
    weeks.

    			Alfred

    Dear God!  This is sad.  I consider you, Alfred, a fixture, a mainstay,
    as much a part of Digital as the clocktower.
    
    God bless you, Alfred, in whatever happens from here.
    
    Richard
    

I'm very sorry to hear that, Alfred.  It's sad the way people who have
been loyal employees for many years are being forced to leave.  I hope
you're able to find another job quickly.

				-- Bob

    <-- What Richard said. :-(
    
    
    Dave

	I'm sorry to hear this news Alfred. I do hope that you find something
either in this company or in another company suited for you. Keep the faith!


Glen

    I'll add my name, too, for those praying for Alfred. I'm glad I had a
    chance to meet you in person.
    
    Marc H.

 As will I...always enjoy your postings here and elsewhere.





Jim

re Note 67.333 by CVG::THOMPSON:

>     I have been told that I'm history. I have a few resumes floating
>     around the company but I don't expect much from them. Unless something
>     changes, I will be shaking the Digital dust off my shoes in about 2
>     weeks.
  
        I'm shocked -- so I can imagine how you must feel!

        (Actually, almost exactly a year ago I was in the same
        situation, but perhaps it wasn't as bad then since the
        company didn't seem to be so far in the hole and some of the
        more draconian measures meant to prevent finding another job
        in the company had not yet been put in place.)

        (What worked for me was the JOBS conference.  I pray for
        peace for you and your family, and God's loving, guiding hand
        upon you and those whom you approach.)

        (This is doubly sad for me, and my wife Nancy, too, to whom
        I've already mentioned this, since I discovered that we're
        together in yet another family -- BG.)

        Bob

Alfred,

I'm saddened to hear that.  I've always respected your notes entries (even if 
I've disagreed with some of them. .-)

I pray God leads you to bright, green pastures.

Peace,

Jim

    Alfred,
    
    I really feel sad about this.  I always enjoy reading your notes and
    learning new things from your perspective.  For selfish reasons I hope
    that your internal resumes will produce results and that you will be
    able to stay with us and keep note-ing.
    
    I'm praying for you buddy,
    Rob
    

    Alfred,
    
    I too, feel sad about your departure from Digital.  It has been my
    pleasure getting to know you as best as I could through this medium.
    
    Nancy

    Alfred,
    
    You sure know how to spoil a guys appetite!  :-)
    
    I embrace you and wish you strength to conquer.
    
    Greetings, Derek.

Alfred,

May God bless you in your new endeavors, as you have blessed us here.
Though I never mentioned it, I've always appreciated the Bookreader Bible
you put together -- and a hundred-and-one other things you've contributed,
whether related to faith or employment.

-Mark DeVries

    >             -< I think of you and The Word in the same thought! >-
    
    Thanks. I could not ask for better company. The Bookreader Bible was
    a real labor of love. I hope to take some sources with me. Who knows
    when I'll have a chance to do something else with them though.
    
    			Alfred
    
    PS: Anyone want to take over an archive of Bible s/w?

    This is it I guess. The official meeting with personnel is Tuesday
    at 8:00. After that I'll be sending some mail and making a few calls
    and then it will be time to shake the dust of Digital off my shoes.

    Participating in this conference has been very interesting. Seldom
    fun and often painful and/or frustrating. A number of times I've left
    (gone read only actually) for short periods of time. But I always 
    returned because, quite frankly, I felt called to be here. I learned
    some things. Hopefully I've taught some as well.

    I wish you all God's blessing and leave with the hope that one day
    all will know Jesus as Lord and Savior. I'll be praying for you.

    		Alfred

   All the best to you Alfred....I've enjoyed your notes here.





  May God bless you as you move on.




  Jim

The time has come for me to move onto other things (like
looking for a job :-) ) as I work my last week at Digital.

Hold true to the faith passed down by the prophets and
servants of God from long ago.  May God bless you as you
are faithful to Him.

I think God for this opportunity to find a more appropriate
job, do some things around this house and enjoy the summer.

Collis

    Collis,
    
    I'm so saddened by this news!!! Major bummer...  Your consistent stand
    for the Truth will be missed in this conference.
        
    I, personally, will miss your contributions both in here and in other
    conferences.  
    
    God Bless You and Your Family,
    Nancy
    

re Note 67.349 by PACKED::COLLIS::JACKSON:

> The time has come for me to move onto other things (like
> looking for a job :-) ) as I work my last week at Digital.
  
        I'm saddened -- I (and many others) will miss your thoughtful,
        reasoned voice in this conference (and elsewhere).

        The pace of change these days is fearful.

        Bob

    	Heck! Where's it all going to end?
    
    	I'll miss you Collis. Take care and may your God go with you
    	always.
    
    	Greetings, Derek.

    RE: Collis,
    
    		 Well Collis I guess I am in very good company.  I
    officially got my package this morning so this is also my last 
    week.  As a result of this I officially resign as a moderator of this
    file.  I'll have a goodby note later this week.
    
    
    Dave

    They're only getting rid of the best. :-)
    
    		Alfred

 Wow....Sorry to see you go Collis and Dave :-(





Jim

    RE: Alfred,
    
    			As Mr. Beeler told me yesterday, I am now joining
    Digitals best.  I like that.  :-)
    
    
    Dave

    Dave,
    
    Sorry to hear this.  You will be missed.

    Dave, Collis,
    
    Sorry that both of you will be leaving.  
    
    Patricia

    Collis,
    
    This is bad news for all of us.  I have learned a lot from you brother
    and I feel very sad you are leaving.  It is like moving into a new
    town, meeting a very special person, starting to get to know them, and
    then they move away!  8-(    Major bummer.
    
    I trust that God will bless you richly in your new job.  I will
    definitely be praying for you and your ministries (as I have in the
    past) where ever life takes you!  Thanks for your contributions here.
    
    Rob
    

    As with the departure of Mike V., Karen B. and all the others, C-P will
    lose much with the departures of Alfred, Dave and Collis. I am sure the
    peace and grace of God will lead each of you to greater and more
    personally fulfilling jobs. May the Spirit guide you and comfort you
    and your loved ones in your journeys.

    My sadness and disappointment is selfish because I know you all will
    move on to bigger and better things, yet I will lose the insights (both
    inspiring and irritating :^)) of each of you.
                                                 
    Eric

Collis and Dave: I'm very sorry to hear that you're leaving.  "Joining
Digital's best" is right!  I'm sure you'll both find satisfying jobs on
the outside - hopefully at companies that aren't going through problems like
Digital's.

				-- Bob

    .349  Though you and I were in nearly constant dissonance, Collis,
    I've truly appreciated you and your presence in C-P nearly since
    its inception.
    
    May God bless you and keep you.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

    .353  My heart and stomach have sunk into a hollow place.  God
    be with you, Dave, as I know God has always been.
    
    This is unbearable.
    
    Richard
    

I'm being downgraded from a VT240 to an IBMpc clone,  .-(oh, for an Amiga.-)

I'll be out of touch till everything gets Ethernetted, hooked up, plugged in 
and booted.

Jim

re Note 67.364 by TFH::KIRK:

> I'm being downgraded from a VT240 to an IBMpc clone,  .-(oh, for an Amiga.-)
  
        If this is a move to one of the more recent descendants of
        the IBMpc, then this doesn't mean a "downgrade" at all.

        On the other hand, if this is really a clone of the original
        IBM PC -- my condolences. :-{

        Bob

re: Note 67.365 by Bob "without vision the people perish"

>        If this is a move to one of the more recent descendants of
>        the IBMpc, then this doesn't mean a "downgrade" at all.

Well, it's a 25Mhz 386, rather out of date.  But it's the operating system and 
GUI I find atrocious.  The icons that don't do what you think they should be 
doing, the meager multitasking, the amazing overhead required (I can multitask 
on my Amiga with a mere 512K of RAM)...

Jim, logged in from home

  Fellow DECies,
     After almost 14 years here at DEC, I'm leaving the company. No, I 
  didn't get "TFSO'ed", rather I left for a better job. I'll be around
  here until Aug 12 or so (unless DEC gives me the package) , after which
  I'll be offline. In the future, I'll  hook up to the net in some way or
  another.
     DEC for me has been quite an experience. I for one am glad to have
  been here when Ken O. was in his prime. This company sure was a special,
  fun place to be! I had a couple of chances to talk with Ken, and yes,
  I did find that he was a hero to me. Those days at the Mill on 1-3
  can never be taken away. The current company has moved far, far away
  from what I remember....
     I will miss all the friends and others I made through the world of
  notes. I truly gained much information and insight into both the human
  condition, religion, ham radio, and firearms. This aspect of DEC I will
  miss.
  

  Good Luck to All the Folks that Remain!

  Marc S. Hildebrant

    Marc S. Hildebrandt,
    
    	Well, this is the frosting on the cake!  I hate to see you go,
    but for purely selfish reasons.  I enjoyed having you here.
    
    	I wish you all the best in your future endeavors and I pray that
    God remains constant as your guide, comfort, and strength.
    
    Shalom, m' friend,
    Richard
    

    Good luck Mark
    

    Marc,  I too, will miss you.  May God be ever present in your future.
    Though we found ourselves often on opposites, we also found ourselves
    congruent at times.  You are a valuable part of the family, Marc. 
    
    God Bless,
    Nancy

Sorry to see you go, Marc.

				-- Bob

    Mark,
    
    I too remember the days of Ken as I have been with DEC 14 years as
    well!  I had lunch with Ken twice when I was in New England on training
    courses and he truly was a hero.  That was back in the days when
    Digital's Employee Moral and loyalty was rated as the highest in the
    industry!
    
    Thanks for your contributions here Mark.  I have learned a lot from
    your perspective and will miss you.
    
    All the best for the future,
    Rob
    

I found a note from Marc Hildebrant on my office chair this morning.

		"I had to leave today, DEC.
		 Will not be back.
		 Please enter a "farewell"
		note in Christian P. for me."

Fare well, Marc.  Peace be with you.

Jim

    Damn, this hurts.
    
    Richard
    

re:  Note 67.374 by Richard "Pacifist Hellcat" 

>    Damn, this hurts.
    
Yeah.  I understand he was given 1 1/2 hour to clear out his office.
So much for the old "employee friendly" Digital.

Jim

    re Note 67.373 by TFH::KIRK
    
    This rots.
    
    Eric

    Not avoiding the notes addressed to me.  Will address them when I have
    the time.  In order to keep my er, uh perfomance rating, :-), I've got
    reports due today.
    
    Nancy

I'm sorry you're dropping out of C-P, Richard, and I hope you decide to
come back soon.

				-- Bob

    I am leaving Digital for a new job and so must give up noting here,
    even as a read-only (or read-mostly).  Today is my last day.
    
    Parting advice from a veteran moderator to both left and right wings:
    Discuss issues, not motives, especially not the motives of the other 
    noters.  It helps keep down the rancor level.
    
    Earl Wajenberg

Earl,

I've always appreciated your well thought out notes, even when I haven't
agreed with them.  Good luck in your new job.

				-- Bob

    Earl,
    
    good luck.  I was just beginning to appreciate and enjoy your thought
    provoking exchange. I will miss you.
    
                                    Patricia
    

    Re .381 & .382:
    
    Thank you both.

    Earl:
    
    Gods best to you and your family as you move on to new ventures.
    
    -Jack

    Thank you.

I'll be out on vacation the rest of this week.  I may log in from home from 
time to time.

Jim

I am one of the people involved with the sale of Digital's heads/storage 
groups to Quantum.  Sometime between now and October 1st I will loose access 
to this conference.  I am saddened by that loss, though I'm looking forward to 
working for Quantum.

Love others as you have been loved by our Lord Jesus Christ.

Peace,

Jim

p.s.  I do intend to continue noting until they pull the figurative plug.
Whether you like it or not!  .-)

	We LIKE it Jim! I will really hate to see you go. You've always have
been someone who has been able to make sense out of confusion, bring
understanding when there is a lot of chaos. And you have a great sense of humor
taboot! :-)  I'll miss ya pal...


Glen

    Yes Jim...I have enjoyed our dialog here.  God's best to you and 
    hope you will be able to stay for awhile!!
    
    God Bless,
    
    -Jack

    Hail to Jim Kirk, who has brought glory to God by demonstrating the
    characteristics of God's good and faithful servant.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

    Jim,
    
    You will be missed.
    
    Patricia

    
    
    
     Like Jim I will also be a Quantamite in Oct. I am pleased to have met 
    Patricia Flanagan face to face while out in Shrewsbury. We found some
    common ground. Granted it took a few drinks  :-) :-)
    
    
    David ( yes Particia its tongue in cheekish) :-)

    Yes David it was good meeting you too!
    
    And I was hoping for time to convert you to a UU too!
    
    good luck
    
    Patricia

    
    
    > And I was hoping for time to convert to convert you to UU
    
     Amazing!! There I was hoping for time to convert you :-)

    I've been more of a read-only noter here, but I've got to know quite a
    few people in this conference. 
    Anyway, Friday is my last day at Digital. I'm going to a company called
    Cabletel about 30 miles away. As my boyfriend lives in that town and
    we're getting married next year, it all seems to have worked out pretty
    well. I'll miss everyone I've met and noted with, even though I won't
    miss the work :-)                                  

    Julie:
    
    I wish you the very best God will give both you and your fiance.  Take
    care and see you on the other side!!
    
    In Christ,
    
    -Jack

    Julie,

    All the best to you in your new position and may God bless your
    upcoming marriage with deep happiness and fulfillment.

    Shalom,
    Richard

    I will be away on vacation for the next 10 Days.
    
    I'm on a search for the statue of Michael Servetus!
    
                                          Patricia
    
                                      

    We'll miss you.  Have a great time.  Hope you find Michael!!!!
    
    -Jack

    Thanks Jack

    .398 Patricia,
    
    	May God watch over you and keep you safe.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

    I'm anticipating a bit of a hiatus in my participation for the next
    few days, at least.
    
    May God bless every participant and reader richly.
    
    God grant you peace,
    Richard
    

	I will be away for the rest of this month -- unfortunately not
	on holiday -- and want to take this opportunity to wish all
	fellow-noters a very happy Christmas.

	A few new noters have joined us recently, and I would be happy to
	get to know them a little closer when I return, via Topic 3,
	introductions.

	Greetings, Derek.

I'm leaving for DECUS, followed by my Christmas vacation.  "See" you all
on the 29th.

				-- Bob

	I think this might be a good time for me to take a bit of a
sabbatical from participating in CHRISTIAN-PERSPECTIVE.  My absence
may have the benefit of taking some of the edge off.

Shalom,
Richard

.405> My absence may have the benefit of taking some of the edge off.

just wait a second, please, richard.

i do not see you contributing to any rough edges in here. don't even think 
for a minute that you taking a break is going to take any edges off this 
conference!!! :-)

i also have noticed some heated discussion in the recent week, and i am
ready to take my share of the blame for it. angry polemics really doesn't 
take us further and polemics are more abuse than use of this file. we should 
concentrate more on constructive discussion, exploration of differing points 
of view and agree to disagree more often and earlier on in the discussion.

thinking about C-P over the last days, this is certainly what i have decided 
to do, and i have decided to refrain from writing notes or responding to notes 
which are entered in a spirit of mistrust. i hope i can pull this through.
knowing you are around would certainly help me to do so, richard! 


andreas.

I'm back.

And may I say, the 'ring' appears to do very nicely without its 'leader.'

;-}

Shalom,
Richard

    	That's it?  Three days?
    
    	Addictions are hard to break!  :^)

yup, a very brief stay... but i wouldn't have lasted even two days.


glad you're back, richard.


andreas.

    Gee,
    
    does this mean I can't play ring leader anymore!
    
                                   Patricia

    Three days was all Jesus needed.  What was his addiction?
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

patricia, sharing the burden of pack leader is no reason to give up! 


richard, aren't you stretching it a bit? 



andreas.

i am off on vacation (corsica, france) until the 17th of july.

be nice to eachother!


andreas.

    
    wow!  Have a great vacation!
    
    jeff

    .413
    
    Enjoy your vacation, Andreas!
    
    Thanks for letting us know.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

	I'm out of here until the 10th of July. Play nice now! :-)

    Have a good time Glen!
    
    
                            Patricia

    
    Begining this weekend, I'll be on holiday until 10 July.
    
    	Eric

    You have a good holiday too!

    
    Everyone have a good holiday!  I'm out of here until 7/5 myself.
    
    jeff

    Good bye all.  Have a great weekend.  
    
    -Jack

    Glen -- Eric -- Jeff
    
    	I pray you each a rejuvenating and relaxing time away.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

    Due to my dad's death, and then my vacation.  I will be "off-line"
    until the end of July.  Please pray for me and my family as we grieve
    and then (I hope) take time to relax and regroup.  I hope to convince
    my mom to come with me for at least part of my vacation.  There will be
    no phones, and on a lake she loves.  It could be a good healing time
    for all of us.

 will be praying for you and your family..





 Jim

| <<< Note 67.422 by CSC32::J_CHRISTIE "Unquenchable fire" >>>


| I pray you each a rejuvenating and relaxing time away.


	It's been working for me Richard!!!


Glen

    Oooot OOOOOOhhh....Glen is back!

hi gang, i'm back.

enjoyed catching up on some of the action in C-P, particularly the discussion
on snarfs in 9.* :-)

also i am glad to report that after two weeks of intensive training (4 hrs/day)
my resting heart rate is down to a fabuluous 40 beats per minute (from 42bpm)!

on the spiritual front there hasn't been much progress apart from growing a
beard, which makes me look very much like a monk, as i am told.... :-)

glad to see you all!


andreas.

    Watch out Andrea.  Patricia has been playing head games with the
    participants here and trying to make us looney in the process!!!!!
    
    Welcome back!
    
    -Jack

| <<< Note 67.428 by MKOTS3::JMARTIN "I press on toward the goal" >>>


| Watch out Andrea.  Patricia has been playing head games with the
| participants here and trying to make us looney in the process!!!!!

	Jack, she is only doing that to you. And don't worry, bud, everyone
knew you were loony before she did it. :-)

    Ohhh well that's a relief!!

    Now please don't all of you wail and cry...
    
    
    but...
    
    
    
    I'll be out all next week.  Going to Cape Cod for a family reunion!
    Now I'm sorry but I can't give my phone number...
    
    You'll just have to learn to get along without me!!!
    
    -Jack

    .431
    
    Enjoy, Jack!
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

    Jack,
    
    That will be difficult!
    
    Have fun!

have a good time, jack!



andreas.

	Jack, I'll start up my program for a message every 10 minutes while
you're gone. It will say, "I miss you Jack!" :-)

	Heading down to P-Town, Jack? :-)


Glen

        Have a safe, relaxing and joyful trip...

    I need to step out for a while since I'm getting more swamped by the
    day.  If you need something, you know where to find me.
    
    Mike

    Well, good to be back.
    
    I learned a valuable lesson last week...
    
    
    
    When you have three children, forget about vacations...especially on
    Cape Cod.  Don't get me wrong, I loved the time with the kids and see
    the value in it.  It's just that you can forget about sitting in a
    chair and vegging out...or napping when you want to!
    
    -Jack

welcome back, jack.


sounds like this was your first vacation with the kids! ;-)



andreas.

    Bingo!  I am slowly recovering though!!! :-)

put this one down to practice, jack. you'll get better at it! 

from one who's been through the learning process, a simple 
rule: organise the kids first, then think of yourself.

also, if you're with kids, stay open to interruptions.
in order to look after kids, you've got to be able to be multitasking!




andreas.

    	One of the best weeks of vacation I ever had as an adult
    	was a week at Seabrook beach.  My family, my wife's sister's
    	family, and my wife's parents all went together.  There were
    	8 kids (two of which were older teens) and 6 adults.  We
    	each had our own unit of a 4-plex, and the 4th was vacant.
    	There were enough adults around that we could each take
    	some time away individually or as couples.  It never rained.
    	We had cookouts and field trips and a day at Hampton and
    	all sorts of fun things.  I think the major factor to the
    	success of the week was the presence of the in-laws.  They
    	had a chance to have the kids in a fun setting, giving the
    	parents their time off.
    
    	For me it was one of the best examples of extended family
    	in action!

i am off for yet another week! 

i am having my children over for a week and a bit.
this will be fun.


andreas.

    Andreas,
    
    Have a great time.
    
    
                                                  Patricia

    Have a great week.  Talk to you next time!
    
    -Jack

 I've popped in for a while, and am now popping back out.



 Adios.




 JIm

    I'm off for two weeks. Pray that I come back more rested than Jack did!
    :^)
    
    Eric

thanks for your good wishes, patricia and jack! the fun week with 
the kids went by far too quick...

quote of the week, sebastian (7): "there's two things i'll miss 
when i am back in england dad. grandmother's cooking and you."

note the order! :-)


andreas.

.448

>note the order! :-)

Yes, he saved the best for last. ;-}

Welcome back, Andreas.

Richard

    
    Folks,
    
    I'll be out of town on business next week probably not able to access
    the net.
    
    Have a nice week.  
    
    I'll still be here the rest of today however.
    
    jeff

    Double Whammy!!!  Due to the fact that the last vacation caused
    hypertension, I will also be out until next Friday.  I am taking the
    kids to the White Mountains and we're going to do the Storyland
    Schtick!
    
    The next week I will be at an ABU kick off meeting in Dallas and prolly
    won't have a system available.  Translation....
    
    
    
    
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.....
    NO CHRISTIAN PERSPECTIVE FOR AWHILE!!!!!! .....PATRICIA...ERIC.....
    PHIL.....RICHARD.....COME BACK......COme Back......Come Back....come
    back....(fading away)  
    
    Old Star Trek Special Effects...
    
    Ahh...that felt good...now back to our regularly scheduled bouts of
    misunderstanding and insults!
    
    
    

    Vaya con Dios, Eric, Jeff & Jack.
    
    Shalom,
    Richard
    

    Well...I'm Back!
    
    The Mountains are far superior to the sands of Cape Cod IMO.
    
    Not too hot...but warm enough to do the water slide!
    
    -Jack

welcome back, jack!

i am glad to see you back well rested.



andreas.

    Welcome back, Jack.
    
    Richard
    

    Well...that was a nice visit.
    
    I will be gone until next Thursday!  I miss this place!!!!!
    
    Thanks for welcoming me back!

        I'm back... Great vacation with the fam. Spent two weeks in the
    mountains of New Hampshire and I feel renewed!

    Lot's of reading in the mornings; books, newspapers. Lot's of family
    togetherness. It was way cool.

    Now I've got to get back to work for a while.

    Eric

    P.S. Jack, was that you covering your eyes on the "Polar Coaster" at
    Story Land? 

    .457
    
    Welcome back, Eric!
    
    Richard
    

re .457


great to see you back eric!

welcome back!


andreas.

    I'm Back!!!!
    
    But I'll be out tomorrow!  Going up to Schroon Lake for a retreat!
    
    -Jack

have a nice week-end and week all!

i am off until probably next thursday moving house (a daunting task!)


take care,

andreas.

	Have fun andreas! 

    It's difficult to say "Enjoy yourself," Andreas.  Moving is right up
    there with having a root canal performed.
    
    God's peace be with you,
    Richard
    

thanks for your good wishes, they worked a treat!

what started as a daunting task finished with much joy and pleasure 
with moving into my new home.

i see you've been very busy in here too, so many new notes!

on to the reading pleasure... :-)


andreas.

i'll be off-line all of next week. my group is doing a transatlantic 
knowledge transfer week. should be fun.



be nice to eachother!


andreas.

    I will be taking  one month off from noting for reflection
    beginning today!
    
    
                                    Patricia

    Eeek.  I hope it wasn't me!! :-(

    I hope the time for reflection proves very beneficial to you
    Patricia, and look forward to your return to this forum.

    Leslie

    My turn to say 'Adios!'  If you ever wish to discuss something with me,
    you know my address.
    
    In Christ,
    Mike

67.469

Well, Mike, I hope you'll visit as time and inclination allows.  You
know the way.

Shalom,
Richard

    Take care Mike.  See ya in the litterbox (tm).
    
    -Jack

<---he left there, too, Jack.

         
    Hi everybody,
    
    For the next 6-8 weeks, I'll be out of the office more than I'll be 
    in it, so I'm going to stop participating here for a time due to a 
    lack thereof.  (;^)  
    
    See you again sometime late January.  May you all have a Merry
    Christmas and a Happy New Year!
    
    God bless,
    
    Cindy

    Take care Cindy!  Happy holidays.
    
    -Jack

dear all, 


i'll be leaving DEC coming monday and i'd like to say good bye to this
wonderful notes file.

whilst i am still not too sure about my religion ;-), conversations in 
this particular file have all the same given me much to digest and to come 
to terms with.

the theme which had been drawing me to this file was love; what was it
and if it could be explained. this, after i once, some years back, 
have known all the depths of emotions although they remained largely 
unfullfilled at the time. the good which came of this experience had
all the same remained. a vast new world opened which became difficult to
explain.

whilst i haven't found all the answers, i have been reassured, much of 
it by noting in this file, to rely on fate more than anything else to 
provide for the future. 

i have been experiencing much good recently and i have learned that what 
is good, needs no rationalising. all it needs is practice. my life-blood 
is flowing, my strength is back and basically, i am finding what i have
been looking for all along.

work-wise, i am now returning to my company (it has suffered long enough)
and plan to grow the business by providing www/internet related services 
in switzerland; there is much potential for growth in this area. also, this 
and next year a small group of us unyielding idealists over here are working 
to implement a 'social pilot project' which has as its aim to counter the 
trend towards the two-third society. we hope with our efforts and with the 
involvement of spnsors from the business community, to create new jobs for 
youths which are presently being marginalised (due to race/culture/class)
by capitalising on untapped potentials offered by the new technologies. 
this may just be a futile pioneering effort and it may be doomed to failure 
but we're conviced that the modern means of communications, the multimedia 
facilities, the graphic and software development tools available today, can 
all be used to contribute to increase literacy and employment prospects of 
those who would otherwise risk staying out in the cold. perhaps it takes 
a little madness to attempt to do this to the extent that we're planning.
much of the synergy behind this project comes out of a very unique and growing 
personal relationship which i have been privileged to engage in with a 
very energetic woman who is also very well known for her social work and 
for her uncompromising commitment to the cause of equality. we appear to
be very similar and what's more we're often thought of by our long-standing
friends as 'crazies'! to heck with it, it's worth a try, and if the worst 
comes to the worst, we can still find ourselves a remote little island and
live in happiness to a ripe old age! :-)


anyway, just want you all to know that i am doing real fine and that i'll
be keeping you in my mind.


take care all!

andreas.

ps. will be reachable on e-mail via "[email protected]", my company's
present internet address.

    Bye andreas, you WILL be missed. Good luck with your future endeavors!

Andreas,

Take care & keep searching for truth and purpose. The endeavor to help 
directionaless young people develop skills that will enable them to have
good jobs and be integrated into society and the job market sounds great!
I hope that it succeeds. I also hope you will remain in touch with at least 
1 person from this file who can give us updates from time to time.

Leslie

thank you glen and leslie!

glen, have no fear, i'll do my best, as they say around here, 
'weed never dies'! :-) leslie, i am quite sure that i'll be
hunting down some of you relentlessly to keep you up top date! :-)

it may take a while but i'll stay in touch.

thanks and good bye,

andreas.

    Andreas,

    	The word "goodbye" is a contraction of "God be with you," I hear. 
    And so, that is in the way I mean it.  God be with you, friend.  It's
    been good to know you.

    Shalom,
    Richard

    PS  I don't know if you noticed, but I've been trying to encourage the
    voices of women in the file in your absence.

god be with you, brother, if i may call you that, richard.

i'll stay in touch.



love and peace,

andreas.

i'll be getting a private internet connection shortly. 

just in case though, here's my home address:

A. Gutzwiller, Bremgartenstrasse 81, CH-8003 Zurich, Switzerland
tel. +41 1 451 5782


if anyone of you is in the area, please be sure to look me up!


good bye,

andreas.

    I'm outta here for two weeks.

    Soo... do not take my silence as assention to any comments
    in this notesfile  ;^)

    Blessed be all and prosper.

    Tom

    I'm gone tomorrow for a memorial service for the wife of 
    a friend of mine.
    
    Don't miss me too much, Jack ;^)

    Tom

    Take care.  See you on Thursday!