Conference koolit::disney

    RE: A northeast Disney operation;
    
    I heard a rumor a year or so ago that Disney was looking into building
    such a place north of Bangor, Me.  There are large tracts of land just
    north of Bangor that could be bought resonablyand discreetly, just as
    the Disney bought the Fla. property.
    
    There is a former SAC airbase that is now Bangor International Airport
    (with plenty of room for expansion) to handle air trasportation.  And
    there are lots of people in that part of the state who need work. 
    A NE Disney operation would be an easy jet flight for the major
    population centers of the east coast (DC/PA/NY/MA).
    
    Think of the possiblities of a cold-weather Disney theme park ! 
    Instead of Big Thunder Mountain Railroad they could have a Bobsled-type
    roller coaster...

    
    
    	I've read at least one article and have caught wind from
    	a few people that Disney has bought 250 acres of land in
    	(of all places!) Baldwinville and Hubbardston.  
    
    	If this is true, I just might stick around Gardner a few
    	more years.  (8
    
    	Tigga~~~

    I heard from a reliable source in the financial (banking) industry
    that Disney had purchased and closed the deal on 250 acres in the
    Baldwinville, Hubardston area of Central Massachusetts.  They are
    currently dickering trying to purchase Mt. Wachusetts to add to
    what they already purchased.  Knowing Disney and the way that they
    work, I wouldn't be suprised.  
    
    If there is anyone that lives in that area, maybe you could check
    the local papers to see about real estate transactions or even check
    with the town hall in some of the towns in the central mass area
    for sales.  I beleive that those records are public records and
    are accessable to everyone.
    
    Joel

    
    RE -.1
    
      A good friend of mine's family used to own Mount Wachusett (a
    long time ago).  The state came to his great, great-grandfather
    and told them that it wanted to buy the mountain from them.  They
    said "No."  The state then said, "We can buy it from you or take
    it from you.  Your choise."  Well, when put that way... 
    
      If anyone knows about this, they will...I'll ask.
    
    
    PS.  If you really want Disney to come here and they are actually
    considering it, then try not to mention it to anyone.  Disney panics
    when it feels the word is getting out and will drop a project even
    as they are about to sign the papers.
    
      Another thought:  This could be a rouse rumor, created by Disney
    to keep people (like speculators who would like to get a piece of
    the action at Disney's expense) off of the real project.  If you
    don't believe me, just remember back to the elaborate details they
    took for 'The Florida Project'.  Like never taking a direct flight.
    Walt NEVER going to Florida.  At least three different dummy
    corportations.  Alisuses for all the personal involved and nobody
    reported to Walt directly.

    
     Mass. seems an unlikely place for Disney to set up shop. With the
     high cost of land, shortage of labor, and unfavorable tax laws,
     I would think the minds at Disney could come up with a much more
     practical and cost effective place to build. VT and ME. would 
     most probably be looked on more favorably as those states would
     most likely cater to the Disney Corp. for their business, all 
     Mass. tends to do is squeeze profits.
     But to have an entire park enclosed under a dome structure would
     definetly be something to see.
    
      -Rob
    

	RE: ...Disney had purchased and closed the deal on 250 acres in the
	>>Baldwinville, Hubardston area of Central Massachusetts.  
       
    	You know I was thinking more and more about this after I got
    	home last night and realized that Baldwinville and Hubbardston
    	are nowhere near each other.  
    
    	Baldwinville is a small part of Templeton and isn't even
    	identified on a map all the time.  In order for Disney to buy 	
    	property in Baldwinville and Hubbardston, they'd have to suck in 
    	all of East Templeton as well and that's a pretty residential
    	area.
    
	>>They are currently dickering trying to purchase Mt. Wachusetts to 
    	>>add to what they already purchased.  Knowing Disney and the way 
    	>>that they work, I wouldn't be suprised.  
          
    	According to an article (I can try to find it and reprint it if
    	anyone is interested) that was written in one of the local papers
    	(Gardner News, Gardner Today??) the rumor about Disney buying
    	land at Mt. Wachusett has been going on for a couple of years
    	now.  
    
    	I'm not trying to put down the rumors (I'd LOVE it if they came
    	this way!), but I have a hard time believing they'd buy land
    	in a place such as Central Hicksville Mass... Having lived out
    	there all my life and all, I just find it a little hard to 
    	take.
    
    	We shall see...
    
    	Tigga~~~                         

                              
    If there is anyone that lives in that area, maybe you could check
    the local papers to see about real estate transactions or even check
    with the town hall in some of the towns in the central mass area
    for sales.  I beleive that those records are public records and
    are accessable to everyone.
    
    Joel

    
    
    While reading the Telegram and Gazzette Friday night I came across
    and article on this Disney "rumor". 
    
    A spokes person for Disney said that Disney has no plans whatsoever
    to build in Massachusetts.  He said that this rumor has been going 
    on for a couple of years now.  He also said that they hear at least 
    2 to 3 of these type of rumors every week.
    
    

    
    RE- .4
    
    Walt NEVER went to Florida?
    
    I believe I have seen film footage of Walt in Olrando looking over
    the area as the work was proceeding.
               
    
    
    I don't know, this does seem somewhat far-fetched but I too hope
    it might be true. 
    
    I guess this will either die out or it will get confirmed, I hope
    the latter.
    
    Mike
    

    RE: .8
    
    >Walt NEVER went to Florida?
    
    Walt never wen't to FLA BEFORE the land purchases,etc. were completed.
    Once the land was bought some of the secrecy could drop away.
    
    George
    

    A few notes back, someone mentioned skiing at Walt Disney World.
    Well, I have a new twist to the story. A professor of mine was
    telling us that he has read in the paper awhile ago, that Disney
    was thinking of buying Mt Wachusett in Princeton,Mass and turning
    that into a year round skiing resort. 
    Has anyone heard of this story before? I mentioned it to a friend
    of mine and she said that she had also heard that story.  It may
    make some sense because in the next town of Leominster, which is
    close by Princeton, many huge motels are being built. 

    I live in Leominster, and I heard the same story!!! 
    Leominster/Fitchburg has been building alot of BIG new hotels!  We've
    got Sheraton, Best Western, Super 8 & there's even talk of a MArriot
    going in too!  Also, we have the Days Inn in Garnder/Westminster line
    that is really big too!  But most of these hotels re finding it hard
    right now to keep them filled!  So maybe they had the inside story on
    Disney (or whatever) and tried to get established etc....
    
    The story I heard of this (Disney) was that they would set-up shop in
    Princeton, MA.
    
    Mel  :^)

    I've also read that Disney owns some fairly large chunks of land up
    here in New England.  
    
    If the Mass economy doesn't turn around, I doubt they will do anything
    with it.
    
    Steve (hoping they do...)
    
    

RE .10 --

>    A professor of mine was
>    telling us that he has read in the paper awhile ago, that Disney
>    was thinking of buying Mt Wachusett in Princeton,Mass and turning
>    that into a year round skiing resort. 
>    Has anyone heard of this story before? 

"Awhile ago" is right, and yes, we've heard of this story before - it's the
reason for this topic, which was started over a year ago to report this same
rumor!

Is it resurfacing...?

								-- Nina

    These rumors seem to pop up from time to time.  A friend of mine who's
    a CPA told me Disney does have land holdings throughout New England. 
    He has a few clients who've sold to them.  Just because they buy a few
    hundred or even thousand acres means nothing.  They're just investing.
    Land bought cheaply yesterday and sold tomorrow at decent profit could
    help fund future projects.

    RE: .14
    
    		Good conclusion...
    
    		Maybe that explains why all of the hotel owners in
    		the Fitchburg/Gardner area have built there.  They
    		ASSUMED something would be happening in the future
    		so they were preparing for it all...
    
    		But, you never know, do you ???
    
    
    		Gilley

    
    I realize that this rumors been around a long while...but this weekend
    it was sparked to my attention, once again.  I met someone over the
    weekend, who recently visited Disney (Fla). and reports that there were
    posters all over the place "Coming in 1994 - Disneys Winter Wonderland,
    Princeton, Ma."   Does anyone have any updated facts on this rumor?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Jen, who's_thinking_positively!

    My wife talked to some friends who came back from Disney and her about
    the sign as stated in .16. I will try to find out more from someone I
    know in Princewton. 
    
    Dave

        <<< UPSAR::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]MASSACHUSETTS.NOTE;2 >>>
                  -< Welcome to the MASSACHUSETTS Conference >-
================================================================================
Note 363.17                  Disney at Wachusett????                    17 of 17
WHIRL::DWESSELS "of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most"  10 lines  17-DEC-1990 05:20
                  -< a new way to balance the state budget? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    New life has been breathed into the rumor...  I'm told that there is
    presently a sign posted in WDW which states roughly, "Watch for our new
    _______ Park opening in Princeton, MA in ______ 1994" !  A photo of the
    sign is to be mailed to my friend who lives in Gardner.  These days,
    people are talking of applying for jobs when/if the park opens!  It'll
    be interesting to see how they work the watershed/aquifer issues which
    have impacted small "development" proposals such as single-family home 
    expansions in the area!
    
    dlw

    The following is from the "Wachusett Mountain Summit News", Summer 1991
    edition.  This is a "Publication of news and events at Wachusett
    Mountain Ski Area", provided courtesy of Pat Campbell.

    DISNEY WORLD RUMOR LIVES ON
    But Where' the Sign?

    By Patricia Favreau


    David Crowley, a vice president of Wachusett Mountain Associates was so
    sure that an alleged sign in Orlando announcing a Walt Disney World
    Winter Theme Park for Princeton in 1994 didn't exist, he set aside a
    $1000 check the day before Andy Stevens departed in mid-March for the
    world-famous resort.

    "My vacation took a downward spiral the minute I stepped off the
    plane," recalled Stevens who was employed as a chairlift operator at
    the ski area this season.  "My girlfriend kept complaining that I
    wasn't any fun because I was so preoccupied in exploring every corner of
    Disney World in search of that sign."

    Needless to say, the check was never awarded because Stevens couldn't
    find the elusive sight that's supposed existence has helped fuel the
    Disney rumor for nearly five years.

    In fact, every person interviewed in this article said they've
    encountered at least one person who has claimed that their friend,
    relative, mate, or neighbor has seen a poster, 3 x 5 card of a sign
    somewhere in the Orlando Disney Theme Parks announcing the supposed
    expansion plans in '94.  Unfortunately no one I spoke to could produce a
    photograph or pinpoint a definite location.

    "That's because it doesn't exist said Crowley.  "Believe me, we'd be
    quite happy if it were true, but that's just not the case."

    Crowley and his family have been leasing the state land they built
    Wachusett Mountain Ski Area on since the 1960's.  Rumors of Disney
    Realty buying up land parcels surrounding the mountain under false
    names like Retlaw have been floating around and resurfacing in
    Princeton and the surrounding communities since 1986.  Much of the
    grapevine has directly linked the ski area with a Disney World merger.

    But wait, there's more... gossip of a Disney Training Facility being
    designed for Hubbardston; helicopters flying close to the ground to
    survey land; limousines supposedly spotted in the ski area parking lot
    with license plates that read Disney 1, 2, and 3; and unmarked
    construction vehicles supposedly parked on the outskirts of the resort
    area.

    Even ABC-TV, it seems briefly explored the land purchase allegations,
    said Mike Warshaw, editor of Inside Worcester.  News correspondent
    Katie Marquedant, a former employee with ABC's Boston bureau, contacted
    Warshaw about six months ago.

    "She was interested in chasing the rumor and wanted to know if I had
    any information on Disney Realty purchasing any land in the area said
    Warshaw.  "Like may of us, she'd heard the stores from people living in
    the area.

    In fact, Inside Worcester recently got into the act too, creating a
    brightly colored map entitled "Worcester, 1999" which depicts all the
    rumors in Worcester and its surrounding communities.  In the upper
    left-hand corner, miniature skiers descend a slope decorated by a huge
    Mickey Mouse replica.

    "I'd imagine a rumor of this proportion might have stemmed from a
    comment once made by a land hold or Realtor, maybe someone who wanted
    their land appraised at a higher value," said Crowley.

    Crowley's sister and W.M.A. vice president, Carolyn Stimpson, 
    nonetheless decided to get [to] the bottom of the allegations last
    summer by contacting Disney World officials.  Sydney L. Jackowitz, vice
    president of Disney Realty, Inc. received her letter from Disney's
    Public Relations Department.  In his reply, dated September 27th,
    Jackowitz writes, "As far as I know there is no truth to the rumors
    concerning our opening a training school in Hubbardston, MA, nor is
    there any interest in the Wachusett Mountain Ski Area in Princeton....
    I hope the above is helpful to you in dispelling these rumors, which
    crop up from time to time in various parts of the country."

    Jorgen Wouters, a reporter for the  Sentinel and Enterprise in
    Fitchburg, said he was asked to write an article concerning the rumor
    just this past December.  "Mike Ferguson, Disney Land's manager of
    corporate communications, said Disney has no plans for a theme park or
    anything of that scale," said Wouters.

    Despite these concrete claims to the contrary, the rumor has persisted
    in cycles according to Wayne Walker, town coordinator for Westminster.

    "During the most serious upswings in the cycle, I've had three or four
    people a week in my office or on the telephone inquiring about the
    rumor," said Walker.  "Several wanted to know if they should have their
    property appraised or if I know of any suspicious land transfers.  I
    would tell them there was nothing out of the ordinary that I knew about. 
    Then everything would get quiet again for a couple months."

    Walker, who first heard the rumor about two years ago, said people from
    all walks of life have pointed to the sudden establishment of four
    major hotels within a five mile radius as proof or "something
    suspicious brewing".

    :Now it's the proposed airport that people are pointing to, never mind
    the fact that it wouldn't be completed for 20 or so years," said
    Walker.  "At town council meetings we often joke about how convenient an
    international airport in the vicinity would be for Disney."

    Karen Koller, executive vice president of the Greater Gardner Chamber
    of Commerce, said she has shared experiences similar to Walker's. 
    "Since I took the position five years ago, we've periodically received
    telephone calls from people wanting to know if thy should purchase land
    or plan on establishing a new business in the area.  I tell them it's
    ridiculous."

    Commenting on the hotel connection, Sean O'Kane, general manager of
    the Day's Hotel in Gardner said predictions of growth in the mid-1980's
    was the basis for the building of hotels, not an inside scoop on a
    hush-hush Disney franchise.

    "In the early 1980's both the Day's Hotel and Sheraton Leominster Hotel
    had feasibility studies done by Laventhal and Horwath, an appraisal
    firm that is no longer in existence," said O'Kane.  "The results all
    indicated that N. Central Mass. would be the next boom town in the late
    '80's.  And there simply wouldn't be enough hotels around to accommodate
    the perceived industrial growth."

    A recession and high unemployment rates have since proven otherwise and
    many of the newer hotels have had to cope with increased rooming
    capacity.  "The Days Hotel was not built as a welcome wagon for Mickey
    Mouse," said O'Kane.  "I've heard the rumor quite a few times but I
    don't believe any of it."

    Neither do the Crowleys.  In fact they're so sure that the most
    tangible evidence -- the Disney Theme Park Sign -- doesn't exist that
    they're willing to wager a 1991-92 season ski pass valued at $500 on
    it.  All you have to do is photograph the always-talked-about-but-
    never-seen sign, document its exact location, and mail your findings
    to:

                        Wachusett Mountain Ski Area
                        c/o Summit News
                        499 Mountain Road
                        Princeton, MA 01541

    All submissions will be thoroughly examined with the proper authorities
    contacted to verify any finding.  A follow-up story with the results of
    N. Central Mass.'s own "quest for the holy grail" will be published
    sometime in late October or November when Summit News resumes
    publication.

    In the meantime, though, don't be in any hurry to dust off your old
    mouse ears.

    Well, you heard it here first.  
    
    Last night I saw and even taped a report on the 6:00 news
    on ch. 4 WBZ Boston about a new theme park called
    DREAMWORLD.  The report said that some people
    from DREAMWORLD inc. (I don't believe any relation to
    DISNEYWORD) where meeting with town officials in
    the Plymouth and Bourne MA. area about a four season
    theme park.  This has never been done in the world and
    New England has the perfect climate.  The park would be
    very educational.  The park would be bigger than DISNEYWORLD
    and create some 20,000 jobs and could be complete in
    1994. 
    
    The report interviewed a woman from DREAMWORLD inc. who
    seemed very optomistic about the park coming to MA.
    However, they also said that some city and town officials
    think the idea is just a "DREAMWORLD" and will never
    happen.
    
    Well there you have it the first real evidence of a new
    "DISNEY" like theme park here in the Northeast.
    
    

    Rep to <<< Note 132.20 by WMOIS::ALEXANDER_D >>>

>    the Plymouth and Bourne MA. area about a four season
>    theme park.  This has never been done in the world and
>    New England has the perfect climate.  The park would be
>    very educational.  The park would be bigger than DISNEYWORLD
>    and create some 20,000 jobs and could be complete in
>    1994. 

    Really?  there's more than 27,400 acres available  in  the Plymouth and
    Bourne Ma area?  
    
    Oh  I  see  it now, the common problem of the Press, Travel  Co's  etc.
    confusing the  Magic Kingdom with Walt Disney World.  The Magic Kingdom
    being only 100 acres or so and only makes part of Walt Disney World.
    
    I'll believe it when I see it.
    
    Claude

Doesn't DEC still own a big chunk of land in Plymouth that we can't seem to 
unload?

I can see it now, a four-season DECworld :-)

    Rep to <<< Note 132.22 by LJOHUB::GOLDBERG "Len Goldberg" >>>

>Doesn't DEC still own a big chunk of land in Plymouth that we can't seem to 
>unload?

    Last I knew Yes, and it was around 200 acres or so.
    
    Claude
    

    They are saving the land in Plymouth to build a site for all the people
    that work for Dec and live on the Cape that can't get into the FXO site
    in Franklin,Ma. :-)

    
� >    very educational.  The park would be bigger than DISNEYWORLD
� >    and create some 20,000 jobs and could be complete in
� >    1994. 
� 
�     Really?  there's more than 27,400 acres available  in  the Plymouth and
�     Bourne Ma area?  
�     
�     Oh  I  see  it now, the common problem of the Press, Travel  Co's  etc.
�     confusing the  Magic Kingdom with Walt Disney World.  The Magic Kingdom
    
    Actually, to give the Media some credit, the report I heard on WBZ in
    Boston said "bigger than Disneyland."  Disneyland == MK.
    
    The most intriguing part of the report to me was the underground
    roller-coaster.  ??
    
    - Sean

    Rep to <<< Note 132.25 by WONDER::REILLY "So I rewired it" >>>

>    Actually, to give the Media some credit, the report I heard on WBZ in
>    Boston said "bigger than Disneyland."  Disneyland == MK.

    Sean,
    
    Actually MK is larger than Disneyland.
    
    Claude    

    The proposed size is 1500 acres, according to an article in the Lowell
    Sun.

    Actually The Magic Kingdom parking lot is bigger than Disneyland.
    
    Mike

>   Actually The Magic Kingdom parking lot is bigger than Disneyland.
    
>   Mike
    
    Then again, as someone who has walked the distance of it, it sure feels
    like Disneyland's parking lot is bigger than Disneyland.
    
    tom

    I know this sounds like a fairy tale but I have just spoken to
    a friend of mine and she says that Disney is planning a park
    right here in Massachusettes...Somewhere around Mt Wachusets in
    Princeton.  I have been a long time watcher of Disney, mostly the
    business and creative sides of things but this is the first I have
    heard of a park right next door to me...She says that there are 
    signs around that say something about 'Disney Place" coming soon.
    Seems a couple of large hotels have built nearby in anticipation,
    but I have seen absolutely nothing in any paper or in any of the
    annual reports from the company.  Does anybody else know anything?
    Is it Yea or Nay?   or are we tired of using the rumor mill for just
    Digital tidbits...?  
    
    I  have a few reservations mostly because of the weather conditions
    in this part of the country...if nothing else...sounds kind of 
    Mickey to me...whats the chatter....my lil nibblers...
    

Re:  .-1

News flash!  Elvis welcomes visitors to N.E. Disney park!

    	I think if you read the eariel replies to this note you will see
    that it seems that the Disney goes to Mt. Wachusett rumor is starting
    again and that it is just that...a rumor.  I remember hearing this
    years ago.  I think this rumor is on the same schedule as the gypsy
    moths.
    
    Tom

    Hello,
    
         I have a family member that is an executive at Disney and he has
    told me repeatedly not to wait for such a thing to happen. Disney was
    doing something at Mt Wachusett a few years ago; but, we believe it was
    only filming or such. 
         Think of an investment as Disney does. Vacationers are the best 
    spenders. Mt. Wachusett is only an hour from Boston and Hartford, a
    half hour from Worcester and a few hours from New York. This means it
    would be a great place to spend a day. Just a day now and then. 
         How many people in Orlando have Disney souvenirs ? Who would want
    a souvenir of a tourist place so close buy? Disney makes millions of
    dollars from hotels, restaurants and souvirners as well as its parks.
    Being so close to the population I can't see to many people staying in
    a hotel when it's lest expensive to drive home.
         Next we have the new hotels in the area. Both have been built in 
    industrial areas. The big one on Rte 31 is a Convention Center. Now 
    that much of the industrial area in Boston has filled, many companies
    have built toward the mountain. There was also a push a few years ago to 
    begin Casino Gambleing in Mass. If I remember correctly, this hotel was 
    hoping to get in on it.
         The point with all the above information is that Disney makes a
    lot of money from tourist. Those who stay a week or two. If Disney
    built a park in the Northeast or anywhere else it could take revenue
    from Florida or California. People on day trips usually don't spend a lot 
    of money (coolers, picnics etc). That doesn't make a lot sense. 
         Hope this helps.  

�                     <<< Note 132.33 by WMOIS::LEBLANC_S >>>

	Your argument doesn't make much sense--

	The purpose of Disney North would be to _draw_ tourists to the area,
	wouldn't it?  After all, how many people planned fabulous vacations
	to Orlando _before_ WDW was there?  Actually, the Wachusett area 
	draws a considerable amount of tourism right now...I'd venture to say
	a lot more than pre-WDW Orlando did.

	Honestly, I don't think Disney is coming to Mt. Wachsett either, but
	if they were, wouldn't they be telling executives like your family 
	member to keep quiet about it anyway?