Conference koolit::disney

    RE: .0
    
    I agree with everything you have said about the "negatives" of
    traveling with another family in a motorhome.  To add some fuel
    to your fire, how about these concerns:
    
    * you mentioned that the gas might be a little more ... gas mileage
      will be about 6 mpg for a typical 40 footer ... at $1.00 per gallon,
      just how much is that for your round trip?  Also, if you hit any
      head winds that number will drop to about 4 mpg
    
    * personally, I get a little motion sick in a motorhome
    
    * even with relatives, being that together that long *is* a drag.
      You have *no* privacy and you begin to grate on each other's nerves
      in about 3 days
    
    * if you still plan to sleep in a hotel you only gain the comforts
      of the motorhome for daytime activities (i.e. lunches, naps, etc.).
      Is that worth it?
    
    * motorhomes are not exactly nimble in traffic.  After you get
      to Disney, should you opt for a side trip to a non-motorhome-equipped
      locale, you may not be able (or allowed) to maneuver and/or park
      that beast
    
    * some states (Illinois comes to mind) do not allow motorhomes to
      travel any faster than 55 mph ... cars, in some areas on the
      interstates, are allowed to travel 65 mph ... how much time does
      that add to the excursion?  Furthermore, can the motorhome in
      question *maintain* 55 mph (i.e. if you hit a hill/mountain in
      West Virginia or the Carolinas how much speed/time do you lose)?
    
    * on the plus side, you can bring or purchase (at local grocery
      stores) enough food to offset that expense.  If the kids are finicky
      eaters you can cater (no pun intended) to their needs.
    
    * also a plus, the kids can play board games and things of that
      nature much more easily in a motorhome than in the backseat of a
      car, so perhaps there is some en route entertainment potential?
    
    
    Still, IMHO, you should *not* go for the motorhome thing.
    
    David.

     Your situation sounds VERY familiar! In 47 days we will be driving
     from Mass. to WDW. There are five of us plus my brother, his wife
     and 3 small children (all under the age of 8). My children are 16,
     15 and 10. 

     In my opinion there would be NO WAY that I would drive down all 
     together in a motorhome. I realize it would be roomy and 
     comfortable, but I'm going to have enough dealing with my own 
     spouse and children. All the kids really travel pretty well
     but after 8-9 hours on the road, it is bound to get to everyone.
     I just don't want to take any chances with this great vacation
     we have planned. (staying at the poly for 7 nights on the world
     vacation plan...can't wait!)

     As far as the kids sleeping on the couches, you have to weigh 
     that against the safety factors. It's nice to let a child lay
     down and take a nap but I would worry about what would happen
     if the driver had to stop short or (God forbid) you have an accident.
     Your child could end up on the floor or worse. (Can you tell that 
     I require use of safety belts in my car?)

     Also, I haven't used a motorhome in a looong time, but I remember
     that they are really gas hogs. If your not sleeping in it, why 
     bother.

     BTW, I get along REALLY well with my brother and sister-inlaw
     and the kids are GREAT. BUT, everyone has there own way of driving,
     disciplining and everything else. 
     
     We made a trip to D.C. years ago with my WHOLE family in a camper.
     At the time there were only 3 small kids. We all survived, but I 
     wouldn't do it again. We found the inconvenience of not having
     our own car to escape with, really hard. 

     For our trip, we are both taking separate cars and planning to meet
     for meals and to stay overnight. We are NOT following each other
     directly. I think following someone is a dangerous and frustrating
     thing to do. 

     For what it's worth,
     Marcie

    Carla,
    
    The  WORDS::RV  notes  file may also be another source of  info,  since
    there  are  alot  of  people  who  drive  down  with thier RV  to  Fort
    Wilderness and may be able to share some insight on this.
    
    However I would tend to agree in one aspect that if you  are staying in
    hotels  on  the way down and at WDW then the motor home is  kind  of  a
    waste  especially if both families don't agree on here to go on a given
    day, who  take  the motor home, who takes the buses?  The added benifit
    of the motor  home is not having to use motels on the way down, thereby
    saving cost, and as one pair  drives/co-navigates  the  others could be
    sleeping etc.  thereby arriving at WDW  sooner.   

    On the issue of the emotion side it's  a  matter  of informing everyone
    what it means to travel down in a motor  home vs traveling down by car,
    like being self contains no need to make pit stops  (however it still a
    good idea to stop every now and then to strech the  legs  etc.), so you
    can conceivably arrive sooner etc.
    
    Personally  I would vote against it, since it seems you won't be  using
    it for it's intended purpose, like saving on motels on the way down  as
    well as using it at say Fort Wilderness.
    
    Claude
    

    
    	On the other side of the coin, I went to WDW in 1985 in a 27'
    Southwind Motorhome with 8 people. Myself, My wife, daughter(9),
    son(7), My mother-in-law, father-in-law, brother-in-law(21) and
    cousin(29) male.
    
    	We couldn't have had a better time. We all slept in the motorhome
    every night except at Fort Wilderness when my son and I slept in
    a tent for 4 or 5 nights. We were gone for two weeks. Went to WDW
    and Bush Gardens, Somky Mountian National Park, the Blue Ridge Parkway,
    and Shenandoah National Park. I would to it again anytime and I
    have. 
    
    	I always say the more the merrier, but everyone has to give a 
    little.
    
    
  	Cliff

    Being a motorhomer and having gone to Florida in a motorhome so
    many times I couldn't count them, I can offer the following:
    
    #1 concern is over the number of people vs available seabelts. 
    Most if not all state require children to be belted.  most motorhomes
    only have belts for six.  some less.  from a sefty standpoint, the
    kids are not going to be safe.
    
    gas mileage isn't all that bad.  we have a basement model 34' home
    and we get 7 mpg.  If your useing two cars loaded down, your probably
    useing that much.
    
    Parking and sightseeing is not a problem.  Most people look at the
    motorhome and get intimidated.  Its no worse than driving a sports
    car.  At major attractions you get better parking spaces as you
    get to park with the busses.  Sea world is one example.  you park
    at the entrance.
    
    speed is a consideration.  we average 30mph for the trip.  not too
    good.
    
    entertainment is great.  the kids play [seat belted].  or we can
    pop a tape into the VCR and they can watch movies.  TV receoption
    is generally not that great.
    
    In the afternoon, we park and all the family takes a nap.  we continue
    on refreashed.
    
    Now if you *are* campers and love that envirenment, the bonuses
    multiply as you drive into the campsite at night and chat with
    your neighbors over a marshmellow.
    
    
    BUT, lastly I would not travel with another family in my motorhome!
    too much is to much.  unless the two families are really close...
    on the otherhand we have traveled with couples with no kids.  There's
    something about tolerating someone else's kids esp in close quarters.
    
    enough
    ed
    

>    * even with relatives, being that together that long *is* a drag.
    
    What do mean "even"?  Especially!  :-)

    THANKS FOR ALL THE RESPONSES!  Of all the reasons WHY we shouldn't
    travel together, the SEATBELT issue got him!  He hadn't thought
    of that!   So, we are taking separate vehicles.
    
    NOW, another question... Although we will be staying IN WDW for
    4 nights... we will need a motel OUTSIDE of WDW for one night. 
    We would prefer it to be in Orlando, clean and cheap.  Any
    suggestions.
    
    Thanks again                                   
    
    Carla
    

    REPLY TO 108.7
    
    When we went to DisneyWorld the 1st time we stayed at the Quality
    Inn on International Drive.  There are I think 2 or 3 Qulaity Inns
    on I-Drive but this one is just the plain old Quality Inn not the
    High Q.  It was neat very clean and reasonably priced.  We got it
    thru a package deal but I remember seeing the prices for the room
    and they were good.  They have a pool and a restaurant that is not
    bad.  This Quality Inn is next to a Pizza Hut and King Henry's.
    Also, a Sizzler Steak Place is a little further down.
    
    This Quality (as well as most) caters to families.
    
    I hope that help.

    Well I almost put this in the WDW Trip Anxiety Note but it probably
    belongs here.
    
    I'm looking for guidance and experience here and hopefully those of you
    who have been in similar situations can offer some advice.
    
    My family will be meeting some close friends down in Orlando when we
    drive down in July. These friends (husband, wife, and son 7) are flying
    down and are first-timers. I expect them to really depend upon us while
    down there.
    
    They will be at WDW for a few days then take off for a few days at her
    folks' place about 150 miles away and then return for a few more days.
    
    They will be at the birthday bash but I haven't planned any other
    "combined" event with them like another dinner show or character 
    breakfast.
    
    My plan is to spend the first day at each park with them to give them
    hints and tips, guide them around, and answer any questions they might
    have.
    
    I anticipate a potential problem because they have a 7 year old and I
    have a 12 and 14 year old and I'm positive there'll be incompatible
    when it comes to the attractions. Obviously the older ones are looking
    forward to the mountains Splash, Big Thunder, and Space. He may not.
    My kids are also ga-ga over MGM and he may not be.
    
    Also, since they are first-timers they may have different interests
    than we do so I'm trying to figure out how to handle this.
    
    Don't get me wrong. I am looking forward to their reaction when we get
    into TMK, EC, and MGM for the first time. I'm looking forward to a
    vicarious high. It's after that first day that I'm worried.
    
    We will be visiting these friends next week and I've been thinking of a
    way to discuss the trip with them well ahead of time to make sure that
    things don't go crazy down there.
    
    My plan is to talk to them and tell them that because of the age
    differences in the kids they should not feel obligated to stick with us
    once they feel comfortable with the parks. I will also assure them that
    they should be sure to ask me anything that can help them while we are
    down there.
    
    We will most likely eat meals together (dying to get this kid into
    Prime Time 'cause I'm not gonna eat my veggies and I'm probably gonna
    have "Sis" and the "kids" make airplane noises while "Mom" makes me eat
    my veggies).
    
    Has anyone planned such a vacation with another family who are
    first-timers who have a child with an age difference like this?
    
    At least we're not traveling with them.
    
    Mike

One question:

Have you done anything in the past together?  The reason I ask is that my 
7 year old has the same interests as your children and my experience has
been fairly positive when my nephew (13 years) has been brought along on
family events...I think places like WDW 'shrinks' the age difference quite
a bit as long as the interests line up.

As with 'traveling' with other families, that has not always been that positive
an experience...

Anyways are you expecting this to be a fact, just because of the age difference?

-Jay

    Jay,
    
    There are other factors. This 7 year old is very defiant and usually
    gets his way with his mother although not so with the father.
    
    My kids only need a glance from me to know how to behave. I won't let
    the 7-year old run the show and I want to make it clear to all parties
    that one family should not feel obligated to the other.
    
    I may be making a mountain out of a mole hill because they may not be
    able to keep up with us. I don't think they can do the 16 hour days
    that we do.
    
    I agree that there will be similar interests but I think as soon as the
    novelty wears off some problems may occur.
    
    There is another obstacle I want to avoid...that is I don't want them
    thinking that my daughter is going to look after him in a babysitting
    type of manner.
    
    As you can see I have some diplomatic chores ahead of me.
    
    Mike

Ah, now I see....good luck, sometimes trips like this are the true test of
friendship.

-Jay

    Mike,   ditto reply .12.....
    
    	If I were you I'd try to give them enough pre-trip planning
    asssitance so that you will not be tied to them once there.
    	Why should you work on your vacation????
    	My view of a vacation is to get away from everything, including
    relatives, friends, whatever.  As a family we've discussed this a few
    times; both trips with the "outlaws" and friends, both times we said
    "nah!!". 
    	When we're at the "World" we want to maximize our fun and do what
    we want when we want and not have to deal with an added variable.
    	If you pull this off, and don't ruin your trip I think you should
    be knighted..... "Sir Scopa, lord of the Magic Kingdom".....
    
    Tony 
    	  

Mike,

This may not be as bad as you think. Be sure to talk with them before you go 
down. (Sounds like you already plan this.) Your plan of explaining that they
"shouldn't feel obligated" to stay with you is a good one. You might also
explain that because they are "new to The World" and you are veterans that your 
interests may vary and you don't want them to miss things they are interested in
just because your not and may overlook them. You may also want to explain to
them all of the options available to them for babysitting while they are there
using the info from this file, carefully leaving out the option of your
daughter.

We have had good experiences in the past traveling with others. We went down for
the 15th anniversary with a total of 4 families (all  neighbors, 8 adults, 7
kids ages 2-9) and we were the only experienced "Worlders". We didn't travel
together: we towed our trailer, another family flew down on their own a few days
later, and the other 2 flew down together on a "package" flight. We also didn't
stay together: we were in FW in the loop for pop-ups, the second family down
stayed in the Contemporary, and the others stayed in the trailers in FW, but
different loops.

We helped the other families plan their vacation in advance. Making sure we all
made reservations for Hoop-de-doo, Polynesian character breakfast, and Luau
(early show for the kids) for the same times, making sure everyone who wanted
one got a copy of Birnbaum, then told them roughly what our itinary(?) was going
to be, but making sure that they understood that we were on vacation as well. If
they wanted to join us at a particular park and do what we were doing fine. They
were actually relieved that we didn't expect them to keep up with us. 

We went to the various shows together, another family and us got a babysitter
one night and went out to Church Street Station for an evening. We spent some
time in TMK with each of the families for a short while when our interests
overlapped for that day (ie. We're getting to DUMBO and doing Fantasyland early
before the crowds or meeting for Diamond Horseshoe), but then split for
different interests, maybe running across them by accident for a while. 

We've also gone with this same group to the Bahamas for a long week-end a few
years ago. And we're going down to WDW this year with one of the families, so 
the experience couldn't have been that bad. This time we're traveling "together",
both pulling our trailers down at the same time, with requests to have adjacent 
sites in FW. We'll be doing Hop-de-doo together, plan on Typhoon Lagoon together,
and possibly a night at Pleasure Island. We may even stretch it and start a day 
at MGM together, but I wouldn't expect that we'll finish together. 

All together traveling with others can be fun and isn't necessarily stifiling.
Just be sure that everyone knows up front what is expected and what isn't
expected from everyone.

Guess this is long enough. I'll add any updates (positive or negative) after our
trip in April.

Steve (17 days and counting)

    Keep those cards and letters coming.
    
    An update:
    
    Oringinally these friends of ours were to spend about 4 days at WDW,
    then 5 days with her parents in Naples? or someplace like that, then
    return for 4 more days.
    
    This past weekend we got a call from them telling us that they are 
    thinking about cutting back. We'll know for sure this weekend how they
    will do it....they may even ask me for advice on how they should cut
    back.
    
    My thoughts on this are that they should be there for the birthday bash
    as I feel EVERYONE should DOO it once in their lives. I think they'll
    be there for about 4-5 days and then leave. That will leave my family
    with more than a week to do the stuff we want to do.
    
    Heck the itis is hitting me so badly that I'm thinking about extending
    my stay a few more days and take advantage of the (lack of) weekend
    crowds.
    
    Mike

    	We'll be traveling with a party of 8 (3 adults, 5 kids).

    	Anybody have experiences with traveling in larger groups?

    	We have currently reserved a villa in the Disney Village Resorts
    	that sleeps 8.  We considered 2 CBR rooms, but from descriptions 
    	in here they seemed small, and Disney couldn't guarantee that we'd
    	get adjoining rooms.  With the MKC discount, our DVR villa will
    	cost about 260/night, which is really verging on our max budget
    	for lodging.

    	I'd be interested in hearing about the experiences of other
    	noters with similar situations, or comments/suggestions if
    	you know of something better.

    	BTW, we decided that we wanted to stay onsite and save the
    	cost of car rental during our 7-day stay.

    	Joe Oppelt

    You might find that a condo rental with 2 rooms offsite save more than
    the cost of the car rental.  I personally would take the 2 rooms
    solution and insist on connecting rooms.  What are those connecting
    doors for anyway?  The only other solution is the trailers in FW and
    don't tell them you have eight as they only officially will sleep six. 
    They do have a couch and one of the beds should sleep 3 kids, although
    a little tight.   I have 4 kids and use the FW trailers when I go down
    there with the family.  

I traveled to WDW in December 1992 with 4 adults and 2 children.  We rented
a treehouse villa at the Disney Village resort.  The treehouse had 3 bedrooms,
a living room, 2 bathrooms and a fully equipped kitchen.  I used the annual
passport discount which made it affordable ($150/night).

We really liked the treehouse.  The only drawback was that the 3rd bedroom
is on the lower level and there is no bathroom down there.  We ate most of
our meals at the treehouse.  I feel this worked out much better than renting
2 hotel rooms.

Elizabeth

    re .1
    
    What is the price for 6 people staying in a trailer in FW?  I'm going
    to disney very soon (march 5th) and I'm still investigating where to
    stay.  As of this morning, we have 12 people coming.  I'm trying to
    get a 4 bedroom house but haven't had any luck.  Six of the 12 people
    will only be staying 3 nights so now I'm checking on finding a place
    for the six of us who will be staying 8 nights and the others are
    thinking of staying at the Hilton (59.00) night with senior citizen
    dicounts.
    
    Thanks for your help
    
    /debbie

    If the cost of saving a the price of a rental car was the primary
    reason for staying on-sight then you would be able to rent a place and
    a car and still save money by staying off-sight. I have a 3br/2bath
    home that I rent out for $75 to $100 a night. I don't know if I have
    the dates available that you would be looking for but if I don't I
    probably could find you a place. You would also be able to cook some of
    your own meals and save some money. I went last year with 8 adult and 8
    kids and we saved a lot of money doing it this way. If you would like
    more information give me a call at 271-6623 or send me a message. 
    dneast::harris_tena
    

The trailers are normally 160-170 dollars per night.  They sleep 6 (which is a 
limit that disney imposes).  They have a bedroom with a fullsize bed and 
a bunk bed and a 'pulman(sp?) bed' (a full size bed that pulls down 
out of the wall and a 'non sleeper couch' in the living room.  I personnally
think that 3 adults and 5 kids in one of these would be very cramped...although
I could see something like a family of 6-7 getting along.

Various discounts (annual pass, mk, etc.) can get you up to 50% off the price
depending on the period that you will be there.   I think the annual pass
50% off rate ends mid-february.

-Jay

    	Mods:  Thanks for relocating this to an appropriate topic.
    
    	Saving the price of the car rental is not the only factor.
    	In reading through this notesfile we found alot of opinions
    	(both ways) about the convenience (and value thereof) of
    	staying onsite.  Those values attracted us.  Now maybe this
    	is a discussion for another topic, but we also like the
    	convenience it appears to provide.
    
    	Regarding INSISTING on adjoining rooms, we cannot insist on
    	it.  Disney said they's try to accommodate us, but they can't
    	guarantee it.  The villa gives us alot more room, a full
    	kitchen (so we can feed ourselves), TV and other amenities
    	that we'll just not get renting two CBR rooms -- adjoining
    	or not.  We do plan to return to home base during the hot
    	afternoons as suggested elsewhere in this conference.  Tiny
    	CBR rooms wouldn't offer us much to do.

    Joe,
    
    When are you going? Is this your first time down there or first
    time "on-site?" Also, ages of the kids?
    
    This could help the noters give you tips and suggestions.
    
    Mike

    	Yeah, we thought about the trailers, but dismissed that as being
    	too cramped.
    
    	We'll have three adults -- my wife and I, a nanny (adult), 5
    	kids -- boys 5 and 11, girls 7,8,9.
    
    	A previous reply put me on to Annual Passholder benefits.  I'll
    	be investigating those.  We'll be there from Aug 24 through 
    	Aug 31.  Off-peak starts Aug 15, I believe.  If I can get the
    	villa for $150 instead of our current $261 price, that would
    	be a blessing!
    
    	As a family, this is our first trip.  I was there (we camped
    	in Ft Wilderness) when I was 12, so in reality this is a
    	first-time trip for us.

    	With respect to the price of a rental car, since we'll have
    	8 people we're looking at a FULL sized car, minivan, or
    	possibly even a large van.  They don't rent those things for 
    	$19/day, that's for sure!

Last time I was in Orlando a friend needed help renting a car. Actually my credit
card to be exact. Anyway he'd reserved a compact but ended up with a mini-van
at the same price $119 per week I think. It won't happen if you want it to 
though.

    Hmmmm, better double check to see if FLA requires seat belts for 
    children under 12. I don't know of any van that seats 8. You may
    need to rent one of those station wagons that seat 8 thanks to a
    pop up seat in the rear (that allows it's occupants to see where
    they are coming from.
    
    Mike