Conference koolit::disney

    Here are the updated figures from the 1989 Birnbaum Guide.  It looks
    like the crowds are growing, but with the opening of the studio
    and Typhoon Lagoon there should be more places for them to spread
    out.
    
        January through the first week in February   20,000 to 30,000

        Second Week of Feb. to beginning of          30,000 to 40,000
        Washington's Birthday Week
               
        Washington's birthday week                   40,000 to 55,000
    
        The period from the end of Washington's      35,000 to 45,000
        birthday week to the beginning of college                
        spring breaks                                            
                                                                 
        College spring break weeks                   40,000 to 50,000
                                                                 
        The 2 weeks around Easter Sunday             45,000 to 70,000
                                                                 
        Easter to Early June                         30,000 to 45,000
        (except Memorial Day Weekend)                30,000 to 65,000
    
        Mid-June through Mid-August                  35,000 to 65,000

        Mid-August to Labor Day			     25,000 to 45,000
        
        September through November                   15,000 to 30,000
        (except Thanksgiving weekend)                35,000 to 60,000
                                                                
        Thanksgiving to beginning of Christmas       10,000 to 25,000
        holidays (least crowded time of year)
    
        Christmas Holidays though New Years Day      50,000 to 125,000
    
        Which means
        15,000..........Exclusive
        20,000..........Semi-private
        30,000..........Longer Lines but still comfortable
        45,000..........Getting busy
        55,000..........Busy
        75,000..........CROWDED
       100,00 and over..VERY CROWDED

    My husband and I went in October (for our honeymoon :-), and I thought
    it was a great time to go.  The weather was very comfortable for
    a long day out at Disney, and the lines were much shorter.....I
    recommend this time of the year to go.
    
    Lynne

    Our family went last Oct also and I wouldn't want the crowds to
    be any larger than they were.  (Idon't like crowds *AT ALL*).
    
    Weather was just great !  Wish it was like that here in Maine right
    now !
    
    We stayed at Fort Wilderness in one of the mobile homes and while
    riding a bus down to Pioneer Hall on day I overheard the driver
    mention that there were 2200 people staying at FW that day as opposed
    to the normal 5500 during the busy season.  (40% of capacity)
    
    We will probably go in Oct when we go again (1993).  Or perhaps
    in Jan-Feb timeframe.  Crowds are about the same but it towards
    the end of the off-season and maybe they'll have longer hours and
    more going on.
    
    I don't think I could enjoy WDW in the busy season...

    
    Me and my wife went last October/November for our honeymoon, too.
    It was a perfect time to go, and when we go again, it will be for
    that time of year again.
    
SEAN/BEER=LABATTS

                <<< INDMKT::DUA0:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DISNEY.NOTE;2 >>>
                                 -< DISNEYANA >-
================================================================================
Note xxx.x                  How's the crowds in June?                    1 reply
SIMUL::WIEDEMAN                                       8 lines  20-JUL-1989 16:45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    
    Just wondering if anyone knows how the crowds are at WDW
    during the last week of June? Is it a good time of year to go down?
    
    thanks,
    
    Doug Wiedeman
    

                <<< INDMKT::DUA0:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DISNEY.NOTE;2 >>>
                                 -< DISNEYANA >-
================================================================================
Note xxx.x                  How's the crowds in June?                     1 of 1
WOTVAX::BATTY "So Long, And Thanks For All The Fish" 17 lines  21-JUL-1989 05:16
                             -< Not the Best Time >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    End of June/beginning of July, the crowds are at their peak. '88
    figures were 55-70 thousand per day. '89 figures will no doubt be
    higher with the new attractions. Unofficial sources estimated 150
    thousand packed in for 4th July!!! 
    
    You can keep waits to a minimum by using the very early/very late 
    tactics (Which is also a good idea because it is HOT, get out of 
    the parks and into the cool between 11 and 3.), but if you have 
    any choice, go earlier or later in the year, you will do more with
    less effort. You will also benefit from MKC discounts off peak!!
    
    Reading these Notes will give you preferred dates from the more 
    knowledgable/experienced Disneyholics. The one disadvantage is that
    all of the experiences/attractions may not be available if you go
    too far off season.  
    
    Mike B.

    
    
    For 1990, I noticed that the Easter holidays fall in the same
    week that my kids have school vacation in April. I assume that
    alot of people will go down in April due to the school vacation
    and the Easter season. I know that the New York state schools
    always schedule their school vacation for the week of Easter.
    I think that his coming April may be extra crowded because the
    Massachusetts schools will be out the same time as the rest of
    the country.
    I am curious if the crowds will be thicker around Easter or the 
    end of June (or does it make any difference)?
    
    thanks,
    
    Doug        

    Please be aware of the two types of attendance figures that Disney
    uses.  There is the Day Total and the In-Park figures.  The Day
    Total is just that, how many people have come into the park that
    day.  Within that figure they do not include re-enters.  This means
    that if you start at the MK and then leave to go to EPCOT Center,
    you are only counted once.  This is the figure that is usually
    published.
    
    The In-Park figures list those that are in the park at any given
    moment.  That is # entered + # re-entered - #exited.  This varies
    hour to hour.  Management keeps track of the numbers and reports
    to various organizations the numbers of people.  These might include
    security, attractions, and custodial.  
    
    When you hear a number like 150,000 you need to realize that was
    the Day Total and not the In-Park.  I was told by a MK Custodial
    Supervisor that the MK can hold 100,000 people.  That number includes
    the fact the every ride is running full capacity, every restraunt
    seat is filled, all toilet stalls and urinals are occupied and there
    is one person in every square foot of regular on-stage space. 
    
    Contrary to opinion, the parks have NEVER closed due to crowds.
    Disney will shut down the parking lots because the become filled,
    but they don't close the parks.  So the trick is that if the parking
    lot is filled, find a hotel or someplace off property and take a
    taxi to the parks.  Although, if the parks are that crowded, I'm
    not sure that I would have a good time or want to fight the crowds.
    
    Joel
    

>    Contrary to opinion, the parks have NEVER closed due to crowds.
>    Disney will shut down the parking lots because the become filled,
>    but they don't close the parks.  So the trick is that if the parking
>    lot is filled, find a hotel or someplace off property and take a
>    taxi to the parks.  Although, if the parks are that crowded, I'm
>    not sure that I would have a good time or want to fight the crowds.


However,,,,

On one incredibly hot August morning, we decided to quit the MK and pop over to
River Country for the  middle  of  the  day.   We found that they were refusing
entry into River Country of  any  more  folks  who  were  NOT staying on Disney
grounds (Dis hotels & FW). This was at 10:00am.

Dave

    
    We have been to WDW twice this year. Once courtesy of DEC for a
    trade show in March and our usual vacation the last week of June
    and first week of July.
    
    In march, the crowds were light. No sweat at all. We usually go
    the last week of April/first week of May to sandwich between the
    April vacations/Easter and Summer vacation crowds. This has always
    worked well for us. Plus the usual warning to go on Fridays and
    Sundays and always avoid Monday. 
    
    However, we unwisely decided to take advantage of the two days off
    for the Forth and went late June/early July. And yes, we were among
    the crazies who braved WDW on July 4th!!  The fireworks were awesome
    but we crawled out of there saying through muffled grunts how we
    would NEVER go to WDW on a holiday again.  150,000 crushing WDW
    fans. It was unbelievable. I had never seen anything like it in
    a dozen trips to Florida.  However, we hit EPCOT on the 5th and
    the crowds were normal. Walked right into Journey when we got there.
    
    The biggest problem we had going in July was the HEAT. It was awful.
    We stayed at the Disney Village and left the parks by 1 or 2 every
    day and went back at 5-6.  Just too hot.  The baby wilted by noon.
    Next year if we go it will be in October. No crowds and no heat.
    
    Regards, Jim
    

    We have been at three times of the year (not in the same year):
    
        Jun 28 - Jul 2: very crowded, hot and humid (wait for
            Pirates was 45 minutes!)
    
        End of August: not too crowded, hot and humid
    
        Oct 30 - Nov 5: not crowded, comfortably hot (around 90), low
            humidity

    Last year my SO and I went for four days the second weekend in
    December and owned the place!  The longest waits were Saturday at
    MK on a pleasant 70 degree day (15 minute max!).  Light rains kept
    so many people away on Sunday that the only waits in Epcot were
    for the next ride to come around....
    
    We leave in seven days for another long weekend!  Can't wait!
    
    Bill G.

    
    I'm planning a trip for early Oct. 1990 and am a little concerned
    about some of the comments in here about crowds. I was under the
    impression that Oct. was considered off season and attendance was
    light. Whats the scoop? Is this a good time to go (crowd-wise) or
    not. I'm going then to take advantage of the MKC 35% discount. I
    got a garden view room at the Polynesian for 117.00 a night. 
    
    Help! will I be shocked at the crowd size?
    
    Mike
    

    We went the first weekend in October (October 8-15) which happened
    to be Columbus Day Weekend which also happens to be when the PGA 
    tournament is there.  The place was a zoo. One of the guys I work
    with went the following week and said the place was not crowded
    at all.
    
    Kris
    

    re: .0 & .1

    In the 1990 Birnbaum they have given up trying to quote attendance
    numbers, instead they list times that are least crowded, average, and
    most crowded.  An excerpt follows:

         ...The chart below offers general information on the
         density of the crowds during different times of the
         year.  It's very hard to generalize, however, in a
         property as vast and diverse as Walt Disney World -- a
         crowded day at the Magic Kingdom does not necessarily
         mean long lines at the Studio -- but the chart below
         does highlight historic trends.  Least crowded means
         that there may be some lines, but by and large most
         attractions can be visited without much waiting; average
         attendance refers to those times when there are lots of
         people around but the lines are still manageable; and
         most crowded reflects those times when the lines at the
         most popular attractions can mean a wait of an hour or
         more.

    


    Least Crowded		Average Attendance	  Most Crowded
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    				1st week of January

    2nd week of January
        through
    1st week of February

    				2nd week of February
    				    through
    				President's Week

    							  Presidents Week

    				End of February
    				    through
    				1st week of April

    							  2nd and 3rd weeks
    							  of April

    				Last week of April
    				    through
    				1st week of June

    							  2nd week of June
    							      through
    							  3rd week of August

    				Last week of August
    				 through
    				Labor Day

    Week after Labor Day
    until Thanksgiving

    				Thanksgiving Week

    Week after Thanksgiving
        through
    week before Christmas

    							  Christmas
    							   through
    							  New Year's Day

    Another thing to consider is timing. The least crowded days of the week
    are Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Those are travel days so the crowds
    may be lighter than they may be on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday.
    
    I took this into consideration when planning my trip.
    
    Also, you may want to plan on being an early bird. As you get past
    mid-morning and get into mid-day and the afternoon the lines get
    longer. Plan on activities which avoid long lines, e.g., go to the most
    popular attractions in the morning and the lesser ones in the
    afternoon.
    
    Historically the parks swell between Noon and 4 P.M. Plan ahead and you
    may be able to take advantage of other WDW attractions besides the 3
    Parks.
    
    Here's one which Birnbaum suggests and I certainly second his
    suggestion. He says that you would find it better to do your souvenir
    shopping early or mid-day instead of towards the end of the day when
    everyone does it.
    
    Mike

    A friend of mine is flying down with his fiance for 3 nights.  They are
    leaving next Friday (March 30th).
    
    Any idea how croweded it should be.  From the Birnbaum thing, he says
    "Medium Crowds" but that really doesn't say a lot.
    
    Thanks...
    Steve
    

    I am planning a week long trip to WDW which will begin
    Memorial Day Weekend.  According to my Fodor's guide to Disney and
    the Orlando area, Memorial Day Weekend is a very popular time to
    go and the parks etc. will be crowded.
    
    Has anyone gone over Memorial Day and survived?!  My alternate
    plan is to hit the pool and the beaches over the long weekend, and
    save the parks for the weekdays.
    
    Thoughts?
    
    Thanks,
    eag

re: .18

I've been to WDW twice on Memorial Day weekend.  Yes, it is more crowded than
during the week before and after.  

The first time I was there the trip ended right after Memorial Day.  We were
able to get to more than half the MK and EPCOT prior to the holiday.  The
crowds did not stop us from getting everything done that we wanted to do. 
(I can't remember how much the crowds slowed us down.)  

The second time the holiday was in the middle of the trip.  The parks were
definitely more crowded the week before than the week after.  Seemed like
alot of additional school bands or other field trip activities were happening
the week before the holiday.

I would advise spending either Saturday or Sunday there.  The Electric Parade
should be running and it probably won't be running during the week.

Even with the crowds, I go again at that time of the year.  Why?  Except for
the weekend the crowds are much better than during the summer.  And I get to
see the Electric Parade (until it's replaced anyway - remember this is the 
last year).  The idea of spending most of the weekend at the beach or pool 
is probably an excellent one.  Just check out what may be happening only on
the weekend and then decide if you care to miss it or not.

    My next "planned" trip to WDW is going to be November.  If we arrive
    the Saturday before the Thanksgiving weekend and leave the Monday
    after, will the crowds be bad only on the Fri, Sat & Sun after
    Thanksgiving day?  And what about Thanksgiving day itself?
    
    Kathy
    

    Read Peter Karam's note (131.46) on WDW around Thanksgiving.
    
    M

    We've been to WDW at Thanksgiving time the past two years.  Once the
    week before, and once the week after.

    Things start picking up Saturday or Sunday before Thanksgiving, and are
    really busy through the Saturday after.  It starts to calm down on
    Sunday, and by Monday it is back to the normal very light fall crowds.

    Given a choice, I would go the week after, rather than the week before.

    I've not been there on Thanksgiving Day, but friends who have report
    light crowds in the parks early in the day, and a zoo by afternoon. 
    The good news is that the parks are open late on Friday and Saturday
    after Thanksgiving, and the ELP and fireworks are on.

    Of course, who know what will be happening by 1995 :-)

    RE: .14
    
    Columbus Day weekend is, I understand, 10-12th Oct this year. Does this
    coincide with the PGA tournament, and should therefore be avoided?
    
    Any other weekends in Oct to avoid?
    
    JK (still planning but the mists are clearing!)

    
�    Columbus Day weekend is, I understand, 10-12th Oct this year. Does this
�    coincide with the PGA tournament, and should therefore be avoided?
    
     Not sure if I can answer your question directly, but when I called to get
     information on Disney Inn availability for the month of October, I was
     told the 15th-17th was completely booked, and assumed it was for the
     tournament.
    
    - Sean

    I travelling from  Scotland to WDW next week. I'll be there from 1-15th
    April. From reading some of the replies to this note, the first week
    will be quieter than the second week. Correct?
    
    What are the school vacation dates around this time?
    
    I'm starting to think that the crowds will be average to too much when
    I go, but I'll live with that I guess!
    
    Dave

    Well, I expected to have huge crowds in July at WDW.  It was not nearly
    as bad as I had anticipated.  Of course I used the tips in this file
    that helps you avoid the crowds as well.  Twice we stood in line for
    1/2 hour.  Other than that - in  5 days at all 3 parks we never waited
    more than 10 minutes!  I know the "strategy" had alot to do with it,
    but I think attendance was down as well.
    
    It was as hot as I thought though!
    
    Kathy
    

    I am planning a family trip to Orlando from August 21 until September
    4. What will the crowds be like at the attractions? What will the
    weather be like?
    
    Here's hoping for favourable replies.8-)
    
    Tom. Belfast, Ireland.

Hi, Tom.  The crowds start to thin in late August, because local children
start back to school.  The parks start to close earlier, too, though.  The
weather is still very hot and humid, as a rule, and my experience for that
time of year is that you can expect about one thunderstorm a day!  Not too
bad at all, to me.  And I hate crowds, heat and humidity, so if I can take
Orlando in late August, pretty much anyone can!!  It's always worth it, to
me.

Now for a question.  I have no idea where to post this.  I was planning to
take my nephew down in August, 1994.  He lives with my parents, however, 
and now they are planning a trip to Italy for three weeks - the last week
of June and first two weeks of July, 1994.  I can't afford to take him 
for three weeks (wish I could!!), but now we're planning the trip to 
coincide with theirs.

My thinking is that leaving on Friday, June 24 and leaving on July 8 or
9 would be "wiser" than arriving on July 1 and leaving on July 15 or 16.
Since my thinking *has* (on rare occasion ;-) been flawed, I thought I'd
run this by folks in this notesfile.  Arriving on the holiday weekend seems
like it would be a big mistake, especially since I get really (to be nice)
grumpy in crowds.  Of course, if we *do* go on the holiday weekend, we might
be able to hook up with the Scopas, should Mike break down and go next year!
(Of course, my fear is that it is already too late to get reservations on 
property for that time at one of the "affordables.")

I'd appreciate hearing anything you have to say (well, maybe not *anything*!).


Susan

    Well, 
    
    For those interested I just heard that Orlando is one of the sites for
    the World Cup Soccer Championships next year. Apparently, teams are
    being placed in certain locales where it is felt they would have the
    most support.
    
    I know that Columbia will be in Orlando. I also heard Argentina is one
    other team that may be going to Orlando. If Brazil has made it I'm 
    going to seriously reconsider going, depending upon when they play the
    games. 
    
    Here's hoping the games are played in June.
    
    Mike

    RE:-1 Please keep us updated. We are in the first phase of planning for
    next years trip. This could/would definetly have an impact on deciding
    when to go.
    
    ja

    More on Orlando and the U.S. 1994 World Cup Championships.
    
    Guess what gang? Brazil has also qualified and their "home base"
    looks to be Orlando. Argentina looks to be going to San Francisco. Belgium
    and Ireland may end up in Foxboro.
    
    Anyway, seedings will be announced at 3 P.M. on ESPN on Sunday, 
    December 19th.
    
    Some quick research indicates that the Orlando games will be played 
    June 19-29 and July 4th. 
    
    Brazil may be playing June 19, 25, 28, and possibly July 4th.
    
    After that the remaining games are played elsewhere.
    
    Those of you planning to go to Orlando in June should seriously think
    about booking your hotel as soon as possible.
    
    Those going in July, 1994 should be okay. 
    
    Let's keep an eye on this one.
    
    Mike

   Mike,

   FYI - Borrowed from the football notes file.

   Tony.


        
                            World Cup 1994
  
Division A              T  v  T         Division B              T  v  T
-------------------------------          -------------------------------
6/18    Detroit         USA v A2           6/19    Pasadena        B3  v B4 
        Pasadena        A3  v A4           6/20    Stanford        B1  v B2 
6/22    Detroit         A4  v A2           6/24    Detroit         B4  v B2 
        Pasadena        USA v A3                   Stanford        B1  v B3 
6/26    Pasadena        USA v A4           6/28    Detroit         B1  v B4 
        Stanford        A2  v A3                   Stanford        B2  v B3 

Division C              T  v  T          Division D              T  v  T
-------------------------------          -------------------------------
6/17  Chicago    GER v C2           6/21    Foxboro         D1  v D2 
      Dallas     C3  v C4                   Dallas          D3  v D4 
6/21  Chicago    GER v C3           6/25    Foxboro         D1  v D3 
6/23  Foxboro    C4  v C2           6/26    Detroit         D4  v D2 
6/27  Chicago    C2  v C3           6/30    Foxboro         D2  v D3 
      Dallas     GER v C4                   Dallas          D1  v D4 

Division E              T  v  T          Division F              T  v  T
-------------------------------          -------------------------------
6/18  NJ/NY      E1  v E2                  6/19    Orlando         F1  v F2 
6/19  Wash., DC  E3  v E4                  6/20    DC              F3  v F4 
6/23  NJ/NY      E1  v E3                  6/25    NJ/NY           F4  v F2 
6/24  Orlando    E4  v E2                          Orlando         F1  v F3 
6/27  Wash., DC  E1  v E4                  6/28    Washington, DC  F1  v F4 
6/28  NJ/NY      E2  v E3                  6/29    Orlando         F2  v F3 


 A1 U.S.A.   B1________  C1 Germany  D1________  E1________  F1________

 A2 ________  B2________  C2________  D2________  E2________  F2________

 A3 ________  B3________  C3________  D3________  E3________  F3________

 A4 ________  B4________  C4________  D4________  E4________  F4________


( Numbers are where the country placed in the division... )
                 ************SECOND  ROUND*************
Saturday, July 2
        Game 37 Chicago                         C1 v (A,B,F) 3
        Game 38 Washington, DC                  A2  v C2

Sunday, July 3
        Game 39 Pasadena                        A1  v (C,D,E) 3
        Game 40 Dallas                          F2 v B2

Monday, July 4
        Game 41 Stanford                        B1 v (A,C,D) 3
        Game 42 Orlando                         F1 v E2

Tuesday, July 5
        Game 43  Foxboro                        D1 v (B,E,F) 3
        Game 44  NJ/NY                          E1 v D2

            $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$QUARTERFINALS$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Saturday, July 9
        Game 45 Foxboro                  Winner 43 v Winner 38
        Game 46 Dallas                   Winner 42 v Winner 41

Sunday, July 10
        Game 47 Stanford                 Winner 39 v Winner 40
        Game 48 NJ/NY                    Winner 44 v Winner 37

            $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$SEMI-FINALS$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Wednesday, July 13
        Game 49 Pasadena                 Winner 47 v Winner 46
        Game 50 NJ/NY                    Winner 48 v Winner 45

                 *************THIRD PLACE*************
Saturday, July 16                               Pasadena

             $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$CHAMPIONSHIP$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Sunday, July 17                                 Pasadena

  

    Yep,
    
    When these blanks are filled I'll replace your note with one that
    identifies exactly who play where and when.
    
    I really think we should send a truckload of letters to Michael Eisner
    telling him that he's missing an opportunity by not building a resort
    in Brazil. 
    
    Mike

    Rather than fill in all the blanks I'll post those affecting Orlando:
    
    June 19th -> Belgium vs Morocco
    June 24th -> Mexico vs Ireland
    June 25th -> Belgium vs Netherlands
    June 29th -> Morocco vs Netherlands
    
    Hmmm, what happened to Brazil? 
    
    Looks like they're playing in Palo Alto and Detroit.
    
    My heart bleeds.
    
    Note: Last game in Orlando is that June 25th game.
    
    Mike

    
    Mike


    I think that you'll find that here isa second round match on July 
   4th in Orlando. 

    It could possibly be between Holland and Eire if everything works out.
   
    Eire are looking to take 20,000 travelling fans with them as well as the 
   US based Irish contingent.

    Regards, 

    This was taken from the Dave Barry notes file.  Hope you all think it
    is as funny as I did.
    
    Julie
    
    
           <<< HYDRA::DISK_NOTES$LIBRARY:[000000]DAVE_BARRY.NOTE;1 >>>
                       -<  Dave Barry - Noted humorist  >-
================================================================================
Note 437.0                    Dave in Disney World                    No replies
PARITY::LANGR "Russ Lang, Tewksbury A18"            105 lines  18-JUL-1988 08:52
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       ==================================================================
 
              WHEN IT COMES TO LINES, IT'S A HUGE WORLD, AFTER ALL
                                 by Dave Barry

 
                     Copyright Knight-Ridder News Service
                              - without permission
                       The San Diego Union, July 16, 1988
 


 
          ORLANDO,  Fla.  --  It's one minute  before  9  a.m.,  Vacation 
       Standard Time, and my family and I are bracing ourselves,  getting 
       ready for the all-out, possibly fatal sprint toward Tomorrowland.
 
          Tomorrowland is of course a popular sector of the "Walt" Disney 
       World of Fun Attractions Surrounded By Waiting Lines The Length of 
       the  Canadian Border. Being savvy tourists, we have  followed  the 
       advice  of  our guidebook and arrived Bright and Early  so  as  to 
       avoid  the  big afternoon crowds, the result being that  there  is 
       virtually   nobody  else  here  except,  I  would   conservatively 
       estimate,   300,000,000,000,000   other   savvy,   crowd-avoiding, 
       guidebook-reading  tourist families. We are getting to  know  them 
       extremely well, because already we have waited with them in a line 
       for  a tram from our whimsically named parking-lot sector  (Sector 
       Chip  'n'  Sector Dale); a line for tickets; a line to  enter  the 
       Transportation  Center;  a  line for the  monorail  to  the  Magic 
       Kingdom  Fantasy  Compound; and a line to get  into  the  compound 
       itself, where we are now waiting behind barricades until they open 
       the  specific  attraction  sectors.  Already  some  of  the  other 
       families, particularly the ones with small children, are beginning 
       to wilt under the onslaught of fun.
    
          "JASON!"  we  hear parents gaily shout. "You get back  in  line 
       THIS INSTANT or we are going BACK TO THE HOTEL!!" You must be firm 
       with  small children here, or they will attempt to leave the  line 
       and engage in unauthorized fun such as "playing." This is why many 
       guidebooks  recommend  that, to get the most out  of  your  Sector 
       World  vacation adventure, you consider leaving your  children  at 
       home, and instead take people more comfortable with the concept of 
       lining up as entertainment, such as East Germans.
 
          Now  it's 9 a.m. and the smiling Disney person is  opening  the 
       barricade,  and a grunting roar fills the air as we  lunge  toward 
       Tomorrowland,   thousands  of  us,  like  panicked  buffalo,   but 
       displaying  less humanity. There is stark fear in the eyes of  the 
       frail and the elderly as we overtake them, striking out  violently 
       with  our guidebooks at those who get in our way. We  cannot  help 
       ourselves.  We  have been standing in these  lines,  watching  our 
       vacation time tick away, and we are by God going to have some  fun 
       soon, even if we have to kill somebody.
 
          So   we  run.  And  now,  finally,  up  ahead,  we   can   see: 
       Tomorrowland. Hurrah! Gaily we shove a wheelchair occupant out  of 
       our  way and quicken our pace. All that waiting, all  those  lines 
       are  forgotten now, because looming into view is  Space  Mountain, 
       the  most  fun  attraction of all, featuring,  for  your  vacation 
       excitement: a giant line. We frankly have never seen such a  line. 
       It  reminds us of a major geological wonder requiring billions  of 
       years to form, such as Bryce Canyon. We are pretty sure that if we 
       looked through this line carefully, we would eventually find Jimmy 
       Hoffa. 
 
          So  we veer off, still running toward another  attraction,  the 
       Little Gasoline Racing Cars That Go Real Slow. We have experienced 
       this  attraction before, so we know that it ranks, in the  thrills 
       department,  alongside  lawn maintenance. But we  dash  toward  it 
       anyway,  because  it  has no line yet. During  the  peak  vacation 
       season,  the Disney people could erect an attraction called  "Your 
       Eardrums  Punctured  Here,"  and if there  were  no  line,  entire 
       families would rush inside.
 
          With  a mob at our heels, we reach the racing  cars,  sprinting 
       past the signs stating the official attraction rules (NO STOPPING! 
       NO  STARTING! LAUGH THIS WAY: "HA HA!"), past the  smiling  Disney 
       persons  and into the car. Finally! We are ON AN ATTRACTION!  This 
       is   swell!   Let's   just  settle  back  and   have   some   good 
       old-fashioned...whoops!  It's  over!  Time  to  head  toward   the 
       Childhood  Fantasy Sector, to see how our friends Buzz  and  Libby 
       are holding up under direct exposure to massive doses of Cute.
 
          Buzz  and Libby have brought their daughter, Alexandra, age  4, 
       who is seeing Profit Kingdom for her first time, and it has been a 
       thrill  to  watch  her sweet little face light  up  with  innocent 
       childlike   terror  once  she  realized  that  roughly  half   the 
       attractions in the Fantasy Sector contain pirates or witches,  the 
       result being that the only attraction she trusts is "It's a  Small 
       World  After  All." This is the one where you get in  a  boat  and 
       glide  slowly past one cute doll for every resident of  the  solar 
       system,  with every single doll singing, in a  penetrating  voice, 
       about  how  it's a small world after all, a small,  small,  small, 
       small   world,  and  you  are  never  going  to  get  out  of   it 
       hahahahahaha. One trip through this attraction is challenge enough 
       for most drug-free adults, but Buzz and Libby have done it several 
       times, and when they finally weave into view, we can see in  their 
       eyes that they have had enough fun for this immediate decade. 
 
          Thus  fulfilled,  we make our way through the  crowds  back  to 
       Hotel World, where we root around in Refrigerator World while  the 
       kids  immediately, without waiting in a line, start  playing  low-
       level  carpet games and, despite the alarming lack  of  structure, 
       laugh till their chins dribble.
 

    Are the major parks within WDW really busy on a predictable schedule?
    
    I just read a magazine article that said Thursday through Sunday were
    the best days to visit the Magic Kingdom and Epcot. However, a colleague 
    just returned from an extremely busy Saturday at MK and asked a woman
    working in a Main Street shop "Is it always this busy?".  She answered
    "Only Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays!".
    
    The same article said that MGM was best on Saturday through Thursday.
    
    Is there a trend, or does it vary by time of year?  
     

    Remember that the locals usually hit the parks on the weekends.
    
    Wednesdays and Thursdays are two days that seem to be "light" days.
    
    School Vacation weeks are busy every day (Summer too). Hit the parks
    early on Saturday and Sunday and don't plan on Monday.
    
    TMK will be pretty busy on weekends during the off season because
    of SPM and "Fantasy..." being run at that time.
    
    Of course if enough people read the same magazine article then the
    trend shifts right?
    
    Mike

We were planning to go to WDW at the end of June.

When I started calling about rooms I found that a number of them
were booked. The reservation person at the Grosvenor told me that
if I could arrange my trip to be after July 7th that I would avoid 
huge crowds. 

The World Cup is in Orlando during June. She said that the parks will
be very, very crowded and the rooms will be more expensive then.

Doug

    Doug,
    
    Obviously you weren't privy to this discussion of the World Cup games
    in Orlando this year. I believe the last game is at the end of June or
    beginning of July. I won't begin a rathole about Brazillian soccer fans 
    coming en masse to FLorida.
    
    Late February thru late April are the most active times for Summer
    bookings. You can expect the economical resorts (CBR, PO, DL) to fill
    up first.
    
    >>>The World Cup is in Orlando during June. She said that the parks
    >>>will be very, very crowded and the rooms will be more expensive
    >>>then.
    
    I'll bet that every day will be like July 4th.
    
    I don't understand her quip about the rooms being more expensive in 
    June. It's the busy season and the prices for June are usually the 
    same in July.
    
    July is less than four months away so it will be VERY UNLIKELY that
    you'll get your first choice for rooms. I suggest you try for
    mid-August reservations if you want better prices, less crowds, and
    more choices for rooms.
    
    Mike

Mike,

I think that she was saying that the room discounts would be hard to
find at that time (ie AAA, Orlando Magic Card, etc.). For example,
I called the Travelodge at LBV and they were completely filled for
June 23 but, for rooms in July, I got them to go from a rate of about 
$100 to  $79 by mentioning AAA and Magic Card.

BTW - has anyone stayed at the Travelodge?

Thanks,

Doug

    Doug,
    
    It still irks me that they advertised for those hotels and times yet
    nothing was available.
    
    I have stayed at Travelodge...back in 1975. Everything was fine but
    the hotel restaurant wasn't anything to write home about.
    
    Mike

              Cruise Lines Follow Disney's Dip In the Ocean

  WALT DISNEY's decision to dive into the cruise business marks a milestone
in the evolution of the cruise industry.
  Cruises for many years catered to honeymooners, the elderly and other
adults. As more ships were built, the lines have expanded their customer
base, sometimes through niche marketing, with specialty cruises now
offered to everyone from kidney-dialysis patients to lesbians. But
cruising has never really taken off; only about 7% of Americans have ever
tried it.
  Now comes Disney. The company figures with its famous characters on
board, its ships -- two are scheduled to be launched by 1998 -- will be
big family draws. But many other lines have identified the family market
as key to the industry's future: Hook the kids on cruising, and they'll
sail for life.
  "The family-cruise market has to be the hottest-growing submarket," says
a spokeswoman for Carnival Cruise Lines. Last year Carnival began
activities, such as finger painting and puppet making, for children ages
two to four.
  "Disney will do a lot of promoting, but people will say, `I don't want to
go on with Donald, Mickey and Goofy, but I do know RCCL has a kids'
program,'" says Rich Steck, a spokesman for Royal Caribbean Cruise Line,
which has a teen nightclub on its Majesty of the Seas.
  But cruise companies aren't about to reposition their product as a
floating theme park. A new ad campaign by Norwegian Cruise Line features a
model wearing not much more than suntan lotion, and guidance that cruisers
can do whatever they want, including "making love at 4 in the afternoon on
Tuesday."
  Norwegian's baby-sitting service runs from noon until 2 a.m.

              

Does anyone konw if and when the olympics will cause crowded
conditions at WDW?

thanks,

Doug

    I know this is a dumb question - I'm sure the answer is yes but...
    
    We decided on the spur of the moment to go to Disney World March 20-24. 
    However, when I called Disney about room reservations, I found out all
    rooms were sold out on the 20th, the 21st & 22nd the only rooms
    available were at the Polynesian (waterfront view, $280 a night).  Is
    it a safe assumption that if you can't get a room at Disney that the
    parks will be pretty crowded. 
    
    Thanks,
    Karen

    It may sound that way but not everyone in a Disney resort room may be
    at the same theme park at the same time as you.
    
    There must be a lot of people with Cabin Fever who are going down that
    week.
    
    Last year a first-timer to WDW went in March. When she came back she
    said, "I thought it wasn't crowded in March?"
    
    Go figure.
    
    Mike

    We were at Epcot on March 25 last year and it wasn't crowded to me.  We
    didn't have to wait more than 10 minutes anywhere.  However, this year
    Connor will be 22 months old and standing in a line isn't a strong
    factor of his.  I will also be 5 1/2 months pregnant and patience with
    waiting probably won't be one of my strong points.  However, if we want
    to pop down to Disney this year, that week will be our only chance
    unless we want to take the baby and go the 5 days before Thanksgiving. 
    Decisions, decisions.
    
    Karen

    One of two of the weeks during March are school vacation weeks for some
    people in the country. Once we were down in March and it was empty, the
    other time they closed off the park.
    
    /jim

    
    
    We were going to go during 3/20 - 3/25 and ran into the same thing.
    
    However, we did find reservations with 2 different travel agents...the
    407 w number had *no* reservations left, but travel agents usually 
    reserve blocks of rooms in anticipation.....
    
    I decided not to go, but not due to crowds...
    
    Check with a travel agent.
    
    -beth

    I started to call an agency - guess I'll give it a try.
    
    Karen
    

    Hey gang....just heard that dues to a number of complaints received
    from guests the folks at WDW have asked the largest of the Bra...
    erhh..."my people" not to return to WDW.
    
    I'm thinking that we'll still see our buddies but the numbers will
    be down.
    
    Here's Hoping,
    
    Mike Scopa
    Director of WDW Brazillian Affairs

    When I wrote my trip report, I just decided to be nice and not mention
    our friends. BUT...they were trying to say the least. Even my
    "politically correct-future US President" 9 year old daughter couldn't
    help but say "Oh no, here they come again" many times!!! 

    I guess the old straw may have broken the camel's back. The local
    papers down there have recently published editorials talking about
    how these tour groups are presenting problems for Disney guests.
    
    Ill manners and their ignorance of proper travel protocol are among the
    topics mentioned....I guess they don't even tip.
    
    I also heard that some of the smaller groups have stayed at the
    CBR....that's a frightening thought.
    
    Mike

    It is a frightening thought - and it's true!
    
    There was a group staying there when we were there.  I never saw
    them in the pool at OBR but what a pain when they showed up at the
    food court!  I had them cut in front of me twice at the bakery.
    
    Also the woman who wrapped my daughter's hair cautiously asked me
    my opinion and after I cautiously answered her (hey, you never know
    who you're talking too!), she said that one or two wouldn't be bad
    but they always come in massive groups!  I think she just meant in 
    general because I never saw any of them with hair wraps.
    
    Karen

>>                        <<< Note 47.51 by DONVAN::SCOPA >>>
>>                                -< We'll See! >-

>>    Hey gang....just heard that dues to a number of complaints received
>>    from guests the folks at WDW have asked the largest of the Bra...
>>    erhh..."my people" not to return to WDW.
    
    
    Well, THAT explains why there were a bunch of 'em at Disneyland the
    other week...

There were still plenty in DW the week before last, but I guess the groups
were smaller.  At all the rides, there were signs posted in (I guess) Spanish
that said something like "party limited to max of 25 people" (interestingly,
it was Spanish (or whatever) only - no English version posted!).

The large groups seemed to be mostly teenage girls, and I thought they were
quite polite (though sometimes rather boisterous!).

						cheryl

    re: .56
    
    �there were signs posted in (I guess) Spanish
    It was Portuguese, part of Disney's attempt to enlighten the Brazilian
    tourists.
    
    --Jay
    

    How many times has it been noted in here that Easter is not the time to
    go to WDW? Well, on Monday the Magic Kingdom parking lot had to be closed
    for three hours. The crowd was overwhelming that day. I'm wondering if
    they were scheduled to film the Easter Special that day.
    
    Either way...you won't catch me down there during Easter.
    
    Mike

    
    We just came back from Disney, we actually cut our Disney trip short a
    day as the crowds were unbeleivable, wall to wall people. I have never
    seen so many people, the path in front and behind Easter Parade was
    jammed packed with people you could only move no stopping. We had 
    gotten our spot 2 hours perior to the beginging of the event. All rides
    were two to three hours long waiting, at all the parks, starting on
    Good Friday. We were four adults  so there were no disapointed kids, 
    we were in Flordia for two weeks and that was only a part of our trip. 
    I really feel bad for the folks who plan for the whole week there and 
    its like that.
     Never again on Easter Week........
    

    
    Please tell me this is only for Easter week and not all of Spring.
    

    
    i remember the last week of april being excellent as far as low-crowds
    go...
    
    
    -raquel
    

    Got a mail message from a castmember this morning. He said he was going
    to check out the new Illuminations show for me and give me his take on
    it...but he decided to avoid going in the parks this weekend because of
    the huge crowds expected. It's the unofficial Gay Weekend and they are
    expecting crowds of 80,000 to be attending the parks.
    
    Mike