Conference koolit::disney

    Claude,  maybe the guide books do desire their own note.  After
    all, 17 is for Disney publications.
    
    I gave my opionion in Holiday notesfile that The Steven Burnback
    or whoever he is guide book is a waste of money.  I took a lot of
    flack there, but again for the record, I put my flack jacket back
    on:-).
    
    I base my premis on three points:
    
    1.  Knowing *everything* in advance kinda ruins the magic of discovery.
    If I know such and such is going to happen when I go on this ride,
    why bother?  Kinda ruins the first time virgin visit.  I hope by
    reading this notesfile some of the magic is not taken away.
    
    2.  There is nothing, I reapeat NOTHING in the guid book that isn't
    available in FREE literature.  There are a great many sections in
    the book that are word-for word copies of the guides that are passed
    out at the gate.

    soon after registering for the magic kindom card, Disney bombards
    you with information about its vactaion plans, etc.
    Just reading note 6 in the holiday notesfile and this notesfile
    gives you MORE information than in that book.
    
    I also challenge that Steve B. was accually there!  Sure his picture
    is on the cover, but did you ever hear of duping?  Or maybe he had
    a quick VIP tour.
    
    3. If you have to have the book, why not borrow it?  Mine is constantly
    on loan.  I don't care, I don't want it.  But why buy something
    that you could borrow?  also availableat most public libraries I
    found after buying mine.
    
    Just my opinion, guess I'm the only one in the world left thatlikes
    to discover.
    
    ed
    

    
    I vote with Lynn. The Birnbaum Book is extremely helpful. It doesn't
    take ANY magic away as far as I'm concerned. As a matter of fact,
    it INCREASES the intensity of actually getting there. 
    
    The first time I went to WDW, I had not even heard of the book.
    When I got back home, talked about going back soon, friends told me
    to check out that book. So I gave it a shot.                  
                                                             
    WOW ! Your're right, I WAS disappointed. I was disappointed about
    how much I didn't know. What I had missed, by NOT KNOWING. How
    much more I could have done and seen if I only had "planned" for
    it the first time !!!
    
    Now it is also MY bible. I too remember several of the 225 + responses
    to note 6 and remember several folks who concurred that half the
    fun is in the PLANNING.
    
    Most people don't make a habit of going to a lot of distant places
    for their vacation without getting as much documentation as possible,
    and for good reasons. Disney should be no different.
    
    Maybe Steve Birnbaum has spent a lot of time at Disney, maybe not.
    But obviously some one has. The information in the book is very
    accurate. So who cares wether it's called Birnbaum, Webster's,
    Mickey's, whatever. It's good and very helpful. There IS a lot of
    "additioinal" information in this conference too. We wouldn't be
    here craving for MORE, esp if we weren't a Disney-holics.
    
    If you like to be surprised, then have your wife, husband, boy/girl
    friend, or whomever, read the book, make the plans. Have them NOT
    TELL you what to expect. Enjoy the ride. You might prefer it
    that way !!
    
    Mark
    
    Knowledge is exciting !
    
                                    

reply to < Note 43.2 by WORDS::BADGER "Follow the Sun Stream" >

>    Claude,  maybe the guide books do desire their own note.  After
>    all, 17 is for Disney publications.

    OK why not.
        
>    1.  Knowing *everything* in advance kinda ruins the magic of discovery.
>    If I know such and such is going to happen when I go on this ride,
>    why bother?  Kinda ruins the first time virgin visit.  I hope by
>    reading this notesfile some of the magic is not taken away.
    
    And not  going  somewhat  prepared can also take out the magic when you
    come home to  be  ask  did you go on so and so, or do this to only find
    out you didn't know  about  it  but  were  within  100 feet or so of it
    (happened to me o nmy first trip)
    
>    2.  There is nothing, I reapeat NOTHING in the guid book that isn't
>    available in FREE literature.  There are a great many sections in
>    the book that are word-for word copies of the guides that are passed
>    out at the gate.
>
>    soon after registering for the magic kindom card, Disney bombards
>    you with information about its vactaion plans, etc.
>    Just reading note 6 in the holiday notesfile and this notesfile
>    gives you MORE information than in that book.

    This assumes that  your  staying  on  site, otherwise you don't get all
    that free stuff from Disney until you arrive which is usualy  to  late,
    not everyone can afford to stay on site, I couldn't my first  2  times.
    Note 6 in HOLIDAY_TRAVEl is a disorganized ramble of thought and I also
    contributed to  it.    The  books  put every in a nice organized manner
    versus the free  junk you'll be bombarded by, Who want to carry so many
    flyers, or a printout  of note 6, etc when a book and the park map will
    do.  Aslo the free stuff doesn't have the
    
                Attendance records,
                Suggested daily visit's
                Details on the restaurants
                and some other things                
        
    which is all helpful when planning to make sure you'll  alocated enough
    time to go etc.
                    
>    3. If you have to have the book, why not borrow it?  Mine is constantly
>    on loan.  I don't care, I don't want it.  But why buy something
>    that you could borrow?  also availableat most public libraries I
>    found after buying mine.

    That's fine if the one your borrowing is  up  to  date,  especially now
    with  all the constructions going on, and the way  Disney  has  changed
    they way you make dinner reservation at EPCOT over the years. 
        
>    Just my opinion, guess I'm the only one in the world left thatlikes
>    to discover.

    I like to discover also, reading the book didn't take  the  magic  away
    from my experience, and the book came out just as I  was  going  on  my
    second  trip,  If  it had came out earlier I would of known  about  the
    dinner reservation etc and would of been able to book the Hoop-Dee-Doo,
    but since I was staying off site at the time I didn't get all that free
    stuff.
    
    Claude    
    

    When I went to Disney for my honeymoon, My husband and I would have
    missed a lot of fabulous attractions like "Magic Journeys 3D Movie"
    which was hidden in Fantasyland, which was one of my favorite
    attractions. If it wasn't for Birbaums "Bible" I would have missed
    this excellent attraction along with a bunch of other ones that
    were hidden in the nooks and crannies of Disney. Disney is a very
    big place and it is very easy to get diorentated once you step in...
    yes I think it was a very useful tool...and it does not take away
    the magic...it just lets you know how much magic there is in Disney
    :-).
    
    Lynne S

Ed,
	For the most part, yeah, I'll agree with you.  Last year after 
	we had made our reservations in FT.W. for a week, we too 
	received all the Disney "poop sheets", and I read, and read 
	and read....It wasn't until a week or so before we left, that
	a friend lent us their copy of Steves' book.  While I didn't 
	read it, as my wife did, I did use it as a "quick ref guide".
	And, for that use it was and is in my opinion, a good book to
	have along; it consolidates all the info you get from Disney.
	I think it includes more info than what you might receive from
	Disney.  But, it's altogether not that much different, my opinion.

	Advantage, yeah, it makes sense to buy it if your not staying
	with in WDW.  It's a good consolidation of all the Disney
	literature you would receive if you stayed in WDW.  It's a 
	good "quick ref. guide" in my opinion, nothing more...

	Bryan (my $.02)


    

    Also some  of  the things you get in the Birnbaum guide versus the free
    stuff from Disney are (as compared to  what I received back in '87 when
    staying at  the  Disney  Inn,  I  have  2  DEC turkey boxes filled with
    vacation paraphernalia from various trips including WDW of course ;^)),
    
    Claude
    
        Tips on taking pictures in WDW, including the Electric Light Parade

        Main Travel routes from selected major cities if  traveling  by car
              (not everyone belongs to AAA or similar auto club).   (not in
              the unofficial guide, just mentions routes once in Florida)

        Sample  schedules  for  visiting Disney and making the most of your
              time (also in the unofficial guide)

        Operating Hours, Attendance records (also in the  unofficial  guide
              and from the Disney pamphlets)

        Which airlines fly to Orlando from the major airports (not everyone
              goes down in their car or RV) (not in the unofficial guide)

        Hints on traveling with Children, handicapped, retires and singles.
              (also  mentioned  in  the  unofficial guide) (Disney pamphlet
              mention strollers and wheelchair rentals and access)
              
        Detailed    description  of  the  resort    hotels,    and    their
              services/activities  (useful in planning which resort to stay
              at).   (not  in the unofficial guide) Disney does provide the
              same thing upon request (take a few weeks to receive and what
              they provide when you arrive)
    
        Descriptions of selected hotels outside  of  WDW  (unofficial guide
              mentions the  areas  outside but not the hotels) (Disney just
              mentions those for the Family Getaway vacation plan)

        Descriptions of selected campground outside of WDW.  (no mention in
              the unofficial guide)

        More detailed description of the ride/attractions/shops versus what
              is  given to you in the free maps.(unofficial  guide  include
              ratings by age groups as well)
        
        More  detailed  description  of the restaurants along with some  of
              their specialties based  on  meal times and area, compared to
              the free pamphlet from  Disney.  (the unofficial guide does a
              cursory on the restaurants and  even  goes to suggest you eat
              outside of the parks)
              

    Two more cents from me.....the itineraries really helped us save
    time...we seen the whole magic kingdom in one day(with the exeception
    of a few fantasyland attractions) and Epcot in one day.  The biggest
    tip I recieved from Birmbaum is for Epcot, is to enter the park
    when it first opens in the morning and head straight to world showcase
    (of course everyone else starts at future world)..well we had all
    of world showcase to ourselves and by noon time everyone from future
    world was coming over to world showcase for lunch, and we headed
    toward future world and got on all the attractions in record time.
    
    thanks Birmbaum...you saved us a lot of time
    
    Lynne S. :-)

    
    	A book that I bought recently also has a lot of information
    in it.  It's Fodor's 89 - Disney World & the Orlando Area.  This
    book is good for information on Sea World, Busch Gardens and other
    attractions in the area...
    

    
    Due to some mix-up I received 2 copies of Birnbaums book...
    so, if anyone is interested...send me mail, and I will 
    give you the book.
    First message takes it.  Interoffice mail only please.
    
    Debbie
    nssg::alford
    

    
�   Due to some mix-up I received 2 copies of Birnbaums book...

    Are you by any chance on one of the World Adventure packages?
    We were and got two copies, too.  I wonder if WDW has a mail-system
    glitch somewhere?
    
SEAN/BEER=LABATTS

    
    WOW... 
    Re: last item...the book is going to Gary, from Augusta ME...
    
    didn't know there were so many out there who would want it...
    
    Glad to be of service!
    
    deb
    

    
    Re: .11
    Yes, I am going 4/1 on the world vacation plan...there must
    have been a computer glitch...got two books, two confirmations,etc.
    Just hope they don't try to charge me twice!  ha
    
    If you still have your extra book, lots of folks out there would
    like it!
    
    deb
    

    
�   If you still have your extra book, lots of folks out there would
�   like it!

    Sorry - gave it to my mom who went later later that year.
    
SEAN/BEER=LABATTS

    
     For anyone interested, the '89 Birnbaum Guide To WDW can be had
    at BJ's Wholesale Club in Westboro, Ma. for 6.99 plus their 5%
    surcharge. The publishers price is $9.95 so you save a couple
    bucks. They had about 50 in stock when I saw them today.
    
    George   (44 Days !!!!!!)

    Since I  was  in AAA today (gee I wonder what for?  ;^)), I notice that
    for members you can pick up the '89 version of Birnbaums book for $6.95
    and non-members it is $8.95.
    
    So if you can't  wait  for  the  MKC version to come in the mail or you
    don't live near a BJ's but live close to a AAA office.....
    
    Claude

    
      Re: " The Bible "
    
      I talked to my travel agent yesterday and he told me that they
    buy the guides by the boxful at $3.00 per book ! Seems like an
    awfully high profit to me......
    
    George

    
    Have you checked out DEC's markups lately...
    
    
    Businesss is business
    
    Overhead is overhead
    
    profit is profit
    
    
    Mark is 87 days !!
    

    Last night I finally broke down and bought the '89 edition of Birnbaums
    book, and compared  the  WDW  map  to  that of the unofficial guide and
    noticed some discreppencies.
    
    Ever since '82 when the Birnbaum  Guide  first  came out they had River
    Country and Pioneer Hall reversed, will they  ever notice their mistake
    and correct it?
    
    I noticed that looking north on the map, that the Unofficial guide  has
    the Carribean Beach resort just below Epcot to the left of Epcot center
    Drive  (soutern  Entrance  to  WDW from I4) on what appears to be a new
    extension to Buena Vista  Drive  (road  from  WDW Village), whereas the
    Birnbaum guide list it to  the right of Epcot Drive across from Typhoon
    Lagoon.
    
    I also noticed  that  the  Disney-MGM  Studios  Theme Park in Birnbaums
    guide show it just  below EPCOT, and I remember it bing just off to the
    right  of  World  Drive  (original  entrance  off  US  192) just before
    connecting  to  Epcot  Center  Drive  back in  '87,  and  it  were  the
    unofficial guide places it.
    
    For you recent WDW travelers which  map  should  I  believe?    I would
    assume the unofficial guide is more accurate.
    
    Claude

    When is Birnbaum's Guide published? Will the 1990 edition come out in
    December or early 1990? I'm planning a trip for the Summer of 1990 and
    would like to get a copy as soon as it comes off the presses.
    
    Mike

    Mike,
    
    I purchased the 1989 edition from the book store near Shaw's (in Merrimack,
    NH) the 2nd or 3rd week of November, 1988.
    
    Peter

    I think it comes out even earlier.  I believe it was late September
    last year when I bought my '89 book.

    Check the publishing date...is it November?

    I just stopped by a book store, in the Pheasant Lane Mall, Nashua, NH.
    They had 5 or 6 other Birnbaum Guides, new 1990 edition.  I asked the
    manager if they had the new 1990 WDW edition in yet.  He said they are
    waiting for it, but didn't know when.  The reason they were not in yet
    was that there is a new publisher for the guide this year.  
    
    If anyone gets one, please post a note so that those of us anxiously
    looking know they are available.
    
    thanks - peter

    Wow Peter. YOu beat me to the punch as I was just about to issue the
    same request. I'll keep an eye open at the bookstore near Shaw's.
    
    Mickey Mike_who_is_5800_hours_away

I am borrowing the 1989 guide.  Since the new edition is so close to coming
out, I decided to borrow for a while and wait to buy the new one.

I asked at the Media Center in Marlboro last week.  The clerk checked the
microfiche and said the 1990 edition would be released in December.

/Jim Pappas
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    The 1990 edition  of  Birnbaum's WDW guide is out.  The Disney Store at
    the Pheasant Lane Mall  had  some  on  display,  so check out the local
    Disney store in your area. (for a list of store's see topic 16)
    
    Claude

    If you can't find the book at your local bookseller, here is the vital
    information they will need to order the 1990 edition:

         Title:  Steve Birnbaum Brings You the Best of Walt Disney World
        Editor:  Steve Birnbaum
    Publishers:  Avon Books & Hearst Professional Magazines, Inc.
          ISBN:  0-380-71004-8
    Price (US):  $9.95

    Steve Birnbaum changed publishers and the book is just now
    arriving in your local bookstore. 

    Hi,
    
    For those UK readers who want to get hold of the Birnbaum guide,
    I just received mine from the following people:
    
    N.O.W. Travel Guides
    4, Airspeed Road
    Priory Industrial Estate
    Christchurch
    BH23 4HD
    
    Tel: 0425 279077
    
    It took them just over a week to get it to me (I picked up one of
    their ad's at a holiday exhibition in Bournemouth), and the cost
    was �7-25.
    
    On first glance, I'd agree that it looks an extremely useful book
    to have if you want to make the most of your WDW holiday, can't
    wait to get home to read it properly!
    
    Andy.
      

    While visiting the local AAA office, Nashua, N.H., I noticed that they
    were selling the Birnbaum books for $7.95 for AAA members.  I don't
    know if this is only at that AAA office, or elsewhere but AAA members
    that have not already purchased the 1990 guide may want to check out
    the AAA office near them to save $2 on the purchase.
    
    peter

    Does someone have a 1990 that I can borrow over the weekend (or
    longer), I promise to get it back in "same as gotten" condition.  I am
    in Merrimack, live in Manchester.  I would even consider renting one,
    if you would prefer.
    
    Reason for borrowing instead of buying, my husband (who is NOT going
    with me to WDW) says I have already spend tooooooooo much on this trip.
    
    Thanks all!
    
    M-L Belforti
    MKO1-2/B9
    264-7983

    Tell him that buying the 1990 Birnbaum book will easily save you it's
    cost and then some.
    
    8^)
    
    Steve
    

    The book is worth buying....you may want to bring it along with you so
    borrowing it may not be the answer.
    
    And as Steve said, the book pays for itself by giving you all kinds of
    information that will save you $$$$$$$$$$.
    
    Go for it.
    
    Mike

    Or try checking it out at the library.
    
    Debbie
    

    When I purchased the 1987 version a few years ago the clerk at the 
    bookstore made sure to remind me, "There are no returns on this, you
    know."  I guess some people had no more use for the book once they
    returned from Florida.  Doing something like that would never occur to
    me.

    BTW, I still have my 1987 edition, along with my 1983, 1989, and 1990.
    (A second 1990 is on its way as part of the package I just booked for
    November.  I'll keep the first a loaner.)

    HELP!!!  I'm 2 months and 1 day and counting (we leave 6/24) for a big
    family vacation at the world.  Yesterday, I was home in bed recovering
    from a cold and missing the first outdoor day we've had in New England
    in months (or at least that's how I felt!) so I figured I'd cheer
    myself up by getting my husband's 1990 edition of Birnbaum (a Christmas
    present from me!) and reviewing the recommended 5 day itinerary now 
    that we have MGM and TL and other attractions that weren't there when 
    I got my first copy of the 'bible' with my World Plan vacation in 1987.
    
    I was SO DISAPPOINTED to see that the 'itinerary' section has been
    removed or at least I couldn't find it!  Was it still in the 1989
    edition?  If so, would somebody make me a copy of the "What to do if
    you ONLY have 5 days in the world?" section and send it to me!
    
    I'd be ever so grateful . . . .I'll even send a post-card from Mickey
    (or your favorite DISNEY character).
    
    Reply using send/author and I'll furnish my address.
    
    Thanks,
    Maryann
    
    (BTW, the cold got better even though I was disappointed in the new
    version of 'the bible'.)   

    Maryann,
    
    I believe the itinerary section is still in the 1990 version.
    ALTHOUGH, someone may have removed it!!  As I recall, it was 
    in the same format as the other versions.
    
    Carla
    

    I just found the itinerary section -- had missed it before, even though 
    my copy of "the Bible" is dogeared from reading. The section is called
    "Planning Ahead" and is on page 12.
    
    Linda

    Thanks for all the help; and special thanks to Linda who's sending me
    pages from the 'unofficial' guide as well.  I'll go back and check
    again in my 1990 Birnbaum!  As I said, I was 'under the weather' on
    Sunday; maybe I was blind as well!!!
    
    Maryann
    

	Does anyone have an extra copy of Birnbaums book?
	There is NOT Disneystore in Japan...

	[Rie] from Tokyo

    The 1991 edition of "The Bible" is out! I picked up a copy at
    Paperback Booksmith in Chelmsford tonight. The price has gone up 
    to $10.95 US, $12.95 Canada. Just glancing through it, there are
    sizable write-ups on the Dolphin, Swan, Yacht Club and Beach Club 
    hotels. 
    
    Linda

    Has anyone read through the 1991 edition yet?  I've been reading
    a few sections and am appalled at the number of typos and errors.
    I'm sure some of the errors are due to things changing after the
    book went to press but I'm still annoyed.
    
    For example, there are notes in this conference stating that some
    character breakfasts (the Polynesian and Fort Wilderness) and a
    dinner show (Top of the World at the Contemporary Resort) have been
    discontinued yet the book still lists them.  I would think that
    Disney would have notified the "Official Guide" writers of these
    changes.
    
    Another thing I noticed was the aerial photo of the Magic Kingdom
    resorts is a pre-Grand Floridian shot.  For some reason I thought
    this was amusing.
    
    Oh well,
    Ruth

    
�   For example, there are notes in this conference stating that some
�   character breakfasts (the Polynesian and Fort Wilderness) and a
�   dinner show (Top of the World at the Contemporary Resort) have been
�   discontinued yet the book still lists them.  I would think that
�   Disney would have notified the "Official Guide" writers of these
�   changes.
    
    Disney can probably accept some of the blame.  When we went to the
    Contemporary last month, our check-in pamphlet and the in-room Resort
    guide listed the Top of The World Breafast as "on."  Not until we
    (and others at the hotel) actually went up the 15th floor one morning
    and saw it empty did we ask about it and find out it was closed.
    
    SEAN/BEER=LABATTS

I haven't seen the 91 edition yet.  One thing that has annoyed me in the past
was that their maps of the complex were wrong.  In particular, they improperly
located where the Caribbean Beach Resort was located, and I think they didn't
even show the road where MGM and the Caribbean are.  Does the map appear 
corrected?

thanks - peter

    Approximate locations (such as D/MGM) are shown, but the caution is
    "maps are not to scale".
    
    I'm suprised that some really important connecting roads are not
    depicted as well.

    Did anyone notice Steve B. put some stuff on Universal Studios and
    other non Disney info in the back?
    
    Ariel and her friends are strewn throughout the book.
    
    Mike

    Could anyone please provide me with the ISBN for the Birnbaum Guide to
    Walt Disney Work ?
    
    Advance thanks,
    			Peter

    0-380-71216-4  This is for the 1991 version.
    
    By the way the Royal Discount Bookstore in Merrimack, NH sells the
    Official and Unofficial guides.  All their books are 10% off.
    
    Suzanne

    I have an extra copy if anyone wants to buy one.
    
    - Ken
    

    Could someone quote the prices for world passports and admissions to
    Typhoon Lagoon, River Country and Pleasure Island from the 1991 
    Guide?
    Also the annual passports prices if available. 
    Thanks,
     
    Gary
    
    (330 days to go)
    

    Please see 96.*, the "Offical Price Note".

    I've tried ordering the book through my local book store in the U.K. and 
    have waited 5wks only to be told they are having problems ordering. I've now
    been informed they will order direct through the U.S. and now quote me
    2/3MONTHS - some wait eh!!!
    
    Does anyone know a number I could call that would accept visa card in
    the U.S. ?
    
    any help much appreciated.
         
    cheers,
    		-peter-

    Here's a way to get one! I booked a package at one of the hotels
    in WDW. They sent me a Steve B. guide even BEFORE I sent in my
    deposit. Maybe if you book a package they'll send you one?! I'm
    rescheduling my vacation, so I'll be canceling the package but
    KEEPING the book.
    
    good luck,
    Marcie

    A couple of suggestions - Surely someone from the Ayr Plant is going to
    the States in the next couple of weeks and could buy one. Or any other
    UK Disneyholic for that matter! Alternatively, ring the Disney Store on
    Regent Street and see if they have got theirs in yet. 
    If you can get one from the States, it will probably be cheaper. Full
    price over there is $9.95, when I've seen them over here they have cost
    9 pounds 95.
    
    If you can't get a better offer, I'll bring one back in July!
    
    Mike in Warrington, UK

    Mike,
    	thanks for the suggestions. At the moment there is not a great deal
    of travel to the U.S. for various reasons. I'd like to try phoning the
    shop in Regent Street - do you know the number ?
    
    cheers,
    		-peter-

         
    	Peter,
    
     I went through the rigmaroll (sp?) of ordering a copy last year, only
    to find the blessed thing sold on the bookshelves of my local Menzies
    newsagent!  Not sure where you're based, but if you've got a Menzies
    nearby, go and have a look.
     
     If you get no better offers, and Mike forgets in July - I'll bring you
    one back in October!!
    
     Cheers,
    
     Andy.
     

    Peter, London Disney Store is on 071 287 6558. I don't know if they
    have started mail-order yet, I was just told sometime in '91. (It's a
    good excuse for a weekend in London!). Have you tried any large
    newsagents chains? I know W H Smiths used to stock them, and NSS had
    big displays last year once they cleared out the Easter Eggs (Both WDW
    and DL guides).

    Andy , Mike,
    
    Thanks again for your help. We do have both Menzies & WH Smith stores
    up here, which I'll try first. Alternatively I try phoning London.
    
    BTW the shop I originally tried was James Thin bookstores, they do hold
    a very large stock - but I'm not impressed with the time I've been
    quoted ordering from the U.S.
                               	 	
    	-peter-

    Peter, I ordered my copy through WH Smith here in Basingstoke just
    before Christmas. I picked it up at the beginning of January about 
    4 weeks. they did have to order it from the States, but there was
    no hurry in my case. Price was 9.95 pounds. Menzies have some other
    good guides ncluding Florida if your interested.
    
    		Richard.

    If anyone in the 3M area is interested in picking up a copy of the
    Birnbaum guide real cheap, the current Building #19* flier is
    advertising the *1989* edition for $1.49.

    While somewhat dated, the 1989 edition still includes information on
    the Disney/MGM Studios Theme Park, The Wonders of Life in Epcot,
    Typhoon Lagoon, The Grand Floridian Beach Resort, and the Caribbean
    Beach Resort.


    *[For those outside of New England, Building #19 is a chain of stores
    that specializes in insurance salvage, leftover, returned, and sample
    type merchandise for very low prices.  They are known for their
    incredibly messy stores, occasional good buys, and 30-day no hassle
    return policy.  I have no connection with them, except to have gotten
    my share of good deals there over the years.]

    When can I expect to find Birnbaum's guide for 1992?  I've booked FW 
    for July '92 and am ready to start planning!
    
    Kathy
    

    The new edition is usually in the bookstores around the end of October
    or the beginning of November.

    With the exception of the Port Orleans Resort, there hasn't been too
    much added to the World this past year, so you might be OK with a '91
    edition.  (The '91 has an entry for Muppet*vision 3D).

    The 1992 Birnbaum Book is on the shelves. I saw it last Friday at
    Lauriat's at the Pheasant Lane Mall in Nashua. N.H. It was not in stock
    at the Disney Store....sort of strange.
    
    Claude will be on the lookout for it's appearance and price at Pace and
    if I see it at the Royal Bookstore at the Shaw's Plaza in Merrimack
    I'll report it here along with their discounted price.
    
    Mike

re:         <<< Note 43.64 by VISUAL::SCOPA "I'd rather be in Orlando" >>>

>>    if I see it at the Royal Bookstore at the Shaw's Plaza in Merrimack
>>    I'll report it here along with their discounted price.

It's $9.85 at the Royal Bookstore. Regular price is $10.95.

Jenna

    
    	For those who don't know yet, Steve Birnbaum died last week of
    	leukemia at the age of 54 (or something like that). Birnbaum
    	was famous for his travel publications for sites around the world,
    	not the least of which was his most popular Disney guides.
    
    	Birnbaum was head of a major travel company, so it seems likely
    	that the Disney guides will continue to be churned out every 
    	year.
    
    	Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. 
    
    	--Leo

    So you can't find '92's Bible? Well, just pick up a February issue of
    Good Housekeeping and you'll find a mini version of it including
    PAY ATTENTION CLAUDE...actual photos of either Port Orleans or Dixie
    Landings. 
    
    Just look for a cover of a 60 year old Liz Taylor on the front and
    you've found it.
    
    Mike 

    
    I just got the '92 edition of the guide with my package, as I was
    thumbing around in it I saw a photo I thought was strange, it took me
    a second or two of thinking to pin down why but I finally realized.
    On page 44, the Walt Disney Resort properties section begins with 
    an overhead shot of the MK monorail loop taken from the southwest
    side of the Disney Inn.  The thing that threw me is that the Grand
    Floridian has yet to be built at the time of this photo.  You can 
    clearly see the square plot of land jetting out into the Lagoon where
    the resort will be.  I just thought it was an interesting photo to see,
    and also wonder why they have not updated the photo in the last 5
    years.
    
                          -Rob
    
    

    There are many areas of this book which need to be refreshed or
    updated. The Fodor's '92 book is even worse. They still think "Here
    come the Muppets" and "Diamond Double-Cross" is still at MGM.
    
    Mike

    If you  get  Good  Housekeeping, their February '92 issue has a special
    insert on WDW,  which was done by Birnbaum.  In there is a card to send
    away for the quide for  $7.00 ($5.50 and $1.50 postage & handling), the
    cheapest I've seen yet.
    
    Claude

    re: .70
    
    	The Disney Store in Columbia, MD has copies of the Mini-Guide from
    Good Houskeeping on display in the area where they put out brochures
    from the various parks and resorts.  An inquiry revealed that they are
    giving them away free of charge.  It makes a nice update if you happen
    to have last years Birnbaum (although it does not have current prices
    in it), and it has the previously mentioned coupon for mail ordering
    the new one for $7.00 if you just gotta have it.  This is rather in-
    teresting as the Disney Stores sell the guide at full price (maybe
    they don't know the coupon is in there).
    
    	I don't know if all Disney Stores will have these available, but
    it certainly is worth a look.  The text of the articles seem to be
    condensed versions of what is found in the full size guide, right down
    to the typesetting and drawings.  The only annoying thing is the ads
    which are liberally placed throughout (I guess they have to pay for it
    somehow!).
    
    Ellen  

    Ellen, thats one thing I've said all along.  There is NOTHING in
    'the bible' that you can't get for FREE in other literature.
    so why wast e the 10$?
    

    re: .72
    
    Sorry, but I think you missed my point.  I feel that Birnbaum is
    an incredibly valuable compendium of information.  Yes, you can
    find all the facts in other places, but with the Official Guide, you
    can find it all in one place.  All I was saying is that this advertising
    supplement is nothing but a severely edited down version of the full
    size guide.
    
    Ellen

    I have a used copy of Birnbaum's 1992 Guide - free to the first person
    who sends me vaxmail.  CUPMK::JETTE
    
    I'm waiting for the '95 issue.......
    
    Kathy
    

    The guide has been taken.
    
    Kathy
    

    fyi - for those who have been waiting, the 1993 edition is available.  
    I purchased one this past weekend.
    
    peter

    Hmmm. That's a bit early Pete. It must be slightly different than the
    '92 version. Is Splash Mountain on the cover?

    	How different is it from last year's???

    The cover is similar to past years, nothing special - a picture of
    Steve Birnbaum with Mickey.  The inside of the cover has a small
    tribute to Steve Birnbaum from Dick Nunis.  The cover is highlighted in
    red, no picture of Splash Mountain.  I haven't looked through much of
    it yet.  Just enough to determine that the off season rates for next
    summer start on August 15th.
    
    peter

    Yes, it was out at least 2 weeks before Pete got it, cause when I went
    to get a 1992 issue 2 week before my trip to WDW (Oct 20-27), I could
    no longer get 1992 editions. 

    The 1994 issue of Birnbaum's guide is available in some bookstores.
    I found mine in Conway NH while the same chain locally did not
    have it in stock on Friday afternoon. 
     
    It's the same basic guide as always. However, Birnbaum is publishing
    a new book called "Birnbaum's Walt Disney World for Kids by Kids". It's 
    a greatly condensed, large print, book in a similar format to the 
    original, aimed at the age 8 and up crowd. There are numerous quotes
    from kids about the various attractions, and would be a way to include
    some of the younger set in the planning activities. 
    
    Linda

    This has got to be the earliest publishing date for Birnbaum. I wonder
    if it has anything to do with S. Birnbaum not being around anymore.
    In recent years the book has shown up right around Thanksgiving.
    
    I wonder if a second printing of the '94 "Bible" is planned. I think
    I'll hold off buying one until early '94.
    
    Mike

Last week I picked up a copy of a new guide book for WDW. (Yes, I know, I have
a copy of most of the books published on the subject.) Written by Rita Aero, 
Fodor's Walt Disney World for Adults claims to be the only guide with a grown-up
point of view. The author has organized custom tours of WDW for hundreds of
adult visitors, beginning with a family reunion for her own relatives. 

The book is divided into sections:
 
                      Attractions
                      Vacation Itineraries
                      Tickets and Timing
                      Hotels
                      Restaurants
                      Dinner Shows
                      Sporting Activities
                      Touring Tips

Attractions is the usual Theme Park and What Is In It with ratings for each
attraction based on adult interests. The author also lists Coming Attractions, 
changes scheduled to be made to each park. 

Vacations Itineraries are planned four-day tours beginning the afternoon of
the day of arrival. Longer trips could combine more than one plan, or 
integrate features of several. Itineraries:

                      Sporting-Life Vacation
                      Day and Night Romantic Adventure
                      Education and Discovery Expedition
                      Gardens and Natural Wonders Tour
                      Wild Kingdom (for party animals)

Each itinerary suggests the best time of year to go, least crowded time for this
particular tour, best arrival day of the week, best budget, moderate, and deluxe
hotels for the itinerary, ultimate hotel for the tour, local transportation, 
what to pack, and special tips. There is also a detailed plan of when to make
what arrangements (similar to Mike's note on planning). 

The Tickets and Timing section adds nothing to information available here. 

The Hotels section devotes an entire page to each of the WDW and Disney Village
hotels. Standard information is location, ambience, rates, amenities, 
restaurants, WDW public transportation, features, drawbacks, tips, and how to 
make reservations. Finally, the hotel is rated on Atmosphere, Attitude, 
Freshness, and Value.  

The Restaurants section is divided into Theme Park Dining and Resort Dining. 
Each restaurant has a full page discussion of food, location, dining hours, 
ambience, sample dinner entrees, healthy choice entrees, lunches, beverages,
average price range, features, drawbacks, how to make reservations, and
final ratings on food, service, and ambience. This information would be useful
for those on restricted diets trying to choose a suitable place to eat. 

The Dinner Shows section is similar to the Restaurants section. The Sporting 
Activities section gives substantial information about where to engage in 
favorite sports and how much it should cost. 

Touring tips is miscellaneous information about what to pack, discounts, 
transportation, groups and reunions, and facilities for guests with 
disabilities. 

Finally, there is a questionnaire to complete after the trip, looking for
your opinion versus that given in the book. 

The book does give a different point of view and I found some information 
here that I had not seen elsewhere (the location of Blizzard Beach, for
example). It would only be worthwhile used in conjunction with Birnbaum's 
Guide by those going to WDW without children.

    we have gotten this book for about four years now. Even though it has
    mostly the same information as last year, I still love read it. And
    reread it. and reread it. It makes my Disney-ITIS grow worse, though.
    
    
    ONLY 21 MORE DAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

    I happened to be in a bookstore the other day and leafed through the 1994
    Birnbaum. After glancing through I'd say you wouldn't find the book
    that useful unless you are a first-timer or haven't been down to WDW
    within the last three years.
    
    Of course it the book helps to hype your trip and cure the "itis" then
    by all means get it.
    
    Mike

    Believe it or not, I picked up a copy oif the unofficial guide.  I
    still don't like Birnbaum's as it still looks like the FREE information
    you  get as you go into the parks.
    the unofficial guide is ok, I do disagree with them on eating at the
    Castle.  We've always liked it.  we go there about every time for
    lunch.  Its a great way to save time in the MK by having reservations.
    
    This is a good warning to ANYONE reading these guides.  Your tastes may
    differ from a reviewer.  try everything.  sometime.
    ed
    now entering vacation mode.
    

    The 1995 version is available.  I just picked up a copy at one of
    the book stores at the Pheasant Lane Mall.  Both stores had copies.
    
    Ruth

    Picked up several new copies at Barnes and Noble (need one for the desk, 
    one for home, one for the trip to mark up, etc.)
    
    There are discount coupons in the back for the first time that I can 
    remember. Savings are offered if eating in sit-down restaurants in
    various places, a discount on the planning video, one free night with 
    four paid nights at the Vacation Club, etc. 
    
    There is some new info on planned attracations, including detailed 
    descriptions of attractions at Blizzard Beach. 
    
    Linda
    
    
    P.S. Mike, there are some trivia details in various places in the new
    edition. Hint, Hint, Hint.....(I need any help I can get.)

    re: the discount coupons at the back of the 1995 Birnbaum
    
    I gave some of hte coupons to a friend who just returned from the
    parks. The coupons are being refused until after the Thanksgiving
    holiday period, and blackout periods do apply. 
    
    Linda

    Linda,
    
    The dates are listed on the backs of the coupons.  If I remember
    correctly they looked like they were valid only for the usual
    off-season dates.
    
    Ruth

I bought both the Birnbaum and the unofficial guide recently.  I looked over
the Birnbaum kids' guide, but it didn't seem to have any information I hadn't
already gotten from here.  Because of that, I didn't buy it.

    Carol

    
    I recently picked up both of these books as well.  IMO, I think
    if you already have a fairly recent Birnbaum's - you'd be better
    served by just getting the unofficial book.  Its loaded with
    excellent information and isn't encumbered with having to serve
    as cheerleader for Disney like Birnbaum's seems to be.
    
    In fact if I had no books on WDW and could only pick up one, I'd
    get the Unofficial Guide.
    
    Each book has its strong points though. 
    
    Gary

I've changed the base note title and consolidated another topic on 

Disney Guidebooks

to here.  Please come back here (43.last) when you have news or questions
about Guide Books to Disney Parks.

Bill A.
One of your DISNEY Mods

    We are going to Disney World for the first time this July and I've
    bought 3 books which I've devoured. We'll see how useful they are after 
    the trip but to get me prepared by providing useful information and get me
    excited, I would highly recommend them.
    
    Fodor's 96 book. This was the first one I read. I think there have been
    other reviews in this note on previous year's edition. 
    
    Walt Disney World with Kids (1996) by Kim Wright Wiley. This one I
    probably enjoyed even more than the previous. We're taking our 3 year
    old and our 9 year old so we need all the help we can get. 
    
    The Birnbaum Childrens Guide. My 9 year old daughter loved it. It got
    her really excited. 
    
    If anyone has any questions about these books, I'd love to answer.
    
    Karla

    We only have Birnbaum (for adults) but when we were at WDW in February
    we met up with my daughter's 10-year-old friend, who has Birnbaum for 
    kids.  It sounded like a good book--except that the friend, David, 
    quoted B-for-kids as judging Epcot's "Honey I Shrunk the Audience" as
    *not worth the wait*.  WHAT???!  Alex (age 11) and I *loved* HISTA and
    would not have griped too much if the line had been an hour.
    
    Caveat: David didn't have the book with him, and we found that *he*
    doesn't like to wait in line (for anything!) longer than 20 minutes
    or so.  Maybe the book was making suggestions for younger kids, or 
    maybe David's recollection was faulty....
    
    Leslie

    Karla,
    
    If you get a chance, pick up "The Unofficial Guide to Walt Disney
    World". This book will give you some pretty honest advice. Birnbaum
    gives you plenty of info but may not give you what the "Unofficial.."
    guide gives you.
    
    Mike

I happened across this book recently while browsing the Florida/WDW shelves
in the travel section of Barnes & Noble (Nashua, NH):

	Walt Disney World for Lovers
	by Rick & Gayle Perlmutter
	Prima Publishing, 1996
	ISBN 0-7615-0321-8

The description on the back of the book says:

   The Ultimate Guide to the Ultimate Disney Experience!

   Not just for kids anymore, Walt Disney World is also paradise
   for adults!  Luxurious resorts.  Live jazz bands.  World-class
   dining.  Dancing under the stars.  Golf, tennis, hot tubs,
   hiking, swimming, biking, and horseback riding.  Glorious Florida
   sunshine.  Whether you're planning a romantic getaway or the
   ultimate fantasy wedding, let "Walt Disney World for Lovers" be
   your guide to America's most popular honeymoon destination.

   Written by a couple for couples, "Walt Disney World for Lovers"
   includes everything you'll want to know about Pleasure Island,
   the fantastic new Boardwalk, and Disney Fairy Tale Weddings, plus:

   - When to go, where to stay, and what to do
   - The best places to eat, from quick snacks to gourmet dining
   - How to plan enchanting weddings, honeymoons, and anniversaries,
     including prices, packages, and discounts
   - Romatic tips and 'secret weapons d'amour' - such as the lakeside
     snuggle-spot for watching fireworks explode over Cinderella's Castle
   - Overviews of Epcot Center, Disney-MGM Studios, and other Disney
     attractions
   - Inside tips on hot nightlife, sports, special events, and seasonal
     fun

  The definitive guide to romantic getaways, honeymoons, and weddings the
  Disney way!

As I mentioned in 30.407, this book has about the most thorough descriptions
of the WDW resorts (including room descriptions) that I've seen in print; in
fact, the authors' description of the Beach Club had a lot to do with my 
deciding to stay there during my trip at the end of this summer.

I didn't buy the book specifically for the romance-related info (although it
will probably come in handy! :-) ); I like the thorough descriptions and the 
evaluations of the resorts, restaurants, etc.  Of course the evaluations are 
subjective, but what evaluations aren't? :-)  At least they give you something
to go on. Note: The book covers only the on-property Disney resorts, the Swan 
and Dolphin, and the Village Marketplace/Hotel Plaza hotels [briefer descriptions 
of those than of the Disney resorts].  The authors feel that you get the best - 
and most romantic :-) - vacation staying on the property.

The book also contains handy tips for making reservations (such was what room
or view to request, which areas are quieter, etc.) and also tips for touring
the theme parks (but not detailed touring plans a la The Unofficial Guide).

"Walt Disney World for Lovers" doesn't have as detailed descriptions of the 
theme park attractions as Birnbaum or the Unofficial Guide, so if you haven't 
been to WDW before you might want to get one of those in addition to this one
if you're looking for detail on the attractions. 

The book is enjoyable to read and contains a lot of good info.  I recommend it.

-- Nina