Conference koolit::disney

    The last time Tomorrowland was fully re-done was circa 1968.  Now,
    with the exception of "Star Tours" which opened in January of 1987,
    all of the rides in Tomorrowland seem more like "Todayland".  The
    Disney Imagineers agree and plan to close Tomorrowland for a couple
    of years to pull a major-league refurbishment of that land in the
    near future.
    
    My question is, does anyone have any rumors, tidbits, etc. about
    this?  Any idea when this is slated to occur?
    
    Fantasyland underwent a similar operation back in 1982-ish and the
    land was closed for 2 years.  No kidding!  They put up a 10 foot
    solid board fence around the whole thing and said "sorry, but
    Fantasyland will re-open in 1984" (or whatever).  Obviously the
    closure of a land could severely cramp your style if you did not
    know about it in advance.
    
    
    Awaiting replies,
    David.

    
    My favorite disney ride is Star Tours.  Unbelieveable!  Don't chicken
    out based on reading the warning signs  Even a chicken like me enjoyed
    this ride.
    
    It holds 30-50 people at once.  There are two simulators.  The ride
    last 7.5 minutes.  The line moves rather nicely.  Once inside the
    building, you progress toward a sort ov movie screen announceing
    future flights, sorta like the Eastern-If you had wings ride. YOU
    turn the cornor to view R2D2 by a shuttle and C3PO talking to him.
    Don't forget to look up and to the left to watch the controlers.
    Alone the way you tour a robut repair factory.  Then you meet your
    shuttle.   You have to wear a seat belt.  Its really needed.  The
    simulator is pivoted on three arms.  You view a movie in front and
    get moved by these arms.  You do feel like you are moving.  You
    can get the sensation of going light speed.  Part of the movie is
    a flight through asteroids and the trip down to death star to plant
    the bomb--remember star wars I.  time goes fast.
    
    this is difinately an F ticket ride.  {I know, they only went to
    E}.
    
    ed
    

    RE: .2
    
    I could not agree more!  Star Tours has surpassed The Haunted Mansion
    in my opinion as the best ride in the park!  I also second the motion
    about "ignore the warning signs if you are chicken" since I am the
    BIGGEST chicken on Earth and I rode Star Tours 2 times in a row!
    BUT...if you do have back problems or heart problems you SHOULD
    pass if you are not in good shape; the ride is a little rough in
    spots.
    
    Can anyone confirm the story I heard about this ride costing $30
    million?  Granted, that is cheap considering they have two 6 degree
    of freedom flight simulators, all the control computers, etc. etc.
    etc. but $30M FOR ONE RIDE?!  WOW!
    
    Finally, as I understand it, the wall around Tomorrowland will START
    behind Star Tours so (thank goodness!) it will be available for
    use during the refurbishment activities.
    
    
    David.

       Are you sure YOU'RE the biggest chicken ??  I think I'M the BIGGEST
    chicken on the planet !!  Are you sure this ride is still ok to
    do ???  I'm about to go to California (last two weeks in March)
    and I plan to hit Disneyland at least one day.  I was there about
    14 years ago and I loved it !!  I just went to Disneyworld last
    May and going again this June.
    
       Did you go to the Pirates of the Caribbean ??  If you did, could
    you give a short description ??  I'm just wondering if it's still
    like I remember it.  I was disappointed in the Pirates ride in Florida.
    Also, would happen to know the hours of the park for the time I'll
    be there ???
    
    Thanks,
    
    Deb
     

    The "worst" part of Star Tours is in the first 30 seconds of the
    ride in which you drop about 2 stories in about 1 second.  To give
    you an idea of how "bad" this is, I rode Star Tours and then Pirates
    back to back.  The initial drop on Pirates is almost identical to
    that in Star Tours.
    
    IMHO, you should be able to handle it if you psyche-up for it while
    you are in line.  Incidentally, Star Tours is the absolute limit
    of my endurance for such roller-coaster type effects, if that helps
    you any.  Yes, the first time you have no idea what to expect and
    it scares the socks off of you, but in retrospect it really was
    not *that* bad.  I still won't touch the Matterhorn Bobsleds or
    Space Mountain for $1,000,000 (...for $2,000,000 maybe!).
    
>        I was disappointed in the Pirates ride in Florida.
    
    I do not find that surprising.  Pirates at WDW is missing about
    30% of the ride compared to Disneyland!  LOTS of the scenes just
    are not THERE, and that pathetic/wimpy start of the ride at WDW
    (read: no waterfall drop to get things going) is the frosting on
    the soggy cake.

    Pirates of the Caribbean is exactly the same as you remember it,
    with a twist.  Remember how (many years ago) Pirates used to have
    the line come out of the front door and off to the left towards
    Swiss Family Treehouse?  Well, they re-did the entrance about 2
    years ago and now there is a "bridge" in front which the line wraps
    around and under, and over, and....  I know that description stinks,
    but you'll see what I mean when you get there.  The point is, the line
    for Pirates is even more insidious now so be sure to get at least one
    ride in early in the morning or you may be out of luck.
    
    Disneyland has a new ride called Splash Mountain which is located
    next to the Haunted Mansion right at the entrance to Bear Country.
    DO NOT EVEN THINK about riding it; the final drop is 5 stories and
    is reputed as being the longest drop for a log ride in the world.
    
    Time-wise, I have no clue since gate admission prices and opening
    times at Disney theme parks flux like the stock market (and about
    as often).  Just be sure to call the day you arrive and ask them
    when they will open on the day you plan to visit, then show up
    1 HOUR before that time.  They will let you in to Main Street USA
    up to about the hub in front of the castle where the rest of the
    park will be roped-off.  Push your way to the front, and when they
    "officially" open the park run, do not walk, to Star Tours on your
    right at the entrance to Tomorrowland.  Then, bee-line for Pirates
    and you can wing it from there.
    
    Hope this helps...wish *I* were going  <pout...sniffle..whimper>
    
    David.

    go for it!  Warnings are more hype than anything.  Although anyone
    with back problems might have problems.  One does get thrown about
    a bit.
    
    Yur right about pirates of the Carreabean.  Anyone whose only gone
    on the one at WDW has a suprise coming to them when they go on this
    one[at DL]!
    
    ed
    

    re: 8.5

>   Time-wise, I have no clue since gate admission prices and opening
>   times at Disney theme parks flux like the stock market (and about
>   as often).  

    Not quite, after all, sometimes the stock market goes down. :-)

    
     Since I will acompany the so called, " Biggest Chicken On The Planet",
    in .4 to Ca., I have no alternative but to start the conversion process
    now. Maybe Super Dave Osborn has a course for such phobia's and chickenish
    traits. 
    
    George

< Note 8.4 by DELNI::STUCZYNSKI >

>    I'm about to go to California (last two weeks in March)
>    and I plan to hit Disneyland at least one day.  
     
    The phone number for current hours is (714)999-4565.  Call them
    to find out the exact hours. 

    According to the 1988 Official Guide by Steve Birnbaum the
    hours Easter week were 8 a.m. to midnight.  Easter Sunday and
    the week after were 9 a.m. to 9 p.m.

    

    
      Thanks Marilyn !  We'll be calling there to find out for sure
    when they close.  
    
    Deb

    
      Hours for Disneyland during the week of Good Friday and Easter,
    March 19 - 25, are 8am until midnight. The following weeks hours
    are scheduled to be 9am till midnight. This information just
    recieved from a phone call to Disneyland.
                 
    George
    

    
        Star Tours closed until March 19th for maintenence. I was told
      by the receptionist when I called to get other info. No other
      attractions are currently inoperative.
    
       George

    Also, during the winter months Disneyland is typically closed on
    Mondays...George, any mention of this?  Do you feel up to another
    call?
    
    Sorry to have muddied the waters further,
    David.

    
      Dave,
    
        No word on Monday's. I'll think I'll have to muster the energy
      to stimulate my index finger for the task of the re-dial. I'll
      let you know...
    
     George 

    I just called Disneyland, CA and they said they are open everyday
    of the year, no exceptions.

    Jodi-

    
     Re: .13,.15
    
          I just called also and they are open Monday's. Also, Tom
         Sawyer's (sp) Island is closed until March 18th for those
         who are interested.
    
         George

    I direct my questions to those of you who have visited both WDW
    and Disneyland.  Can I find happiness at Disneyland after WDW?
    What can I expect?  Does it have other attractions like Epcot etc.
    Any other info you could supply would be appreciated.  I have concern
    because WDW is covered from top to bottom but little on Disneyland.
    

    I'm going to California for the last two weeks in March, and I do
    plan to visit Disneyland.  When I return, I'll be happy to give
    you a full report.  
    
    Debbie

    
    After goin to both places many times, DisneyLAND is my favorite.
    It doesn't hurt to have Star Tours!  There are some difference between
    similiar rides, one that come to mind is Pirates of the Caraibean
    [sp].  Don't bypass the Land just because you went to the world!
    ed
    

I pretty much grew up in Disneyland.  When a grandkid had a birthday, Gram 
and Gramps use to take us all, so we got to go a bunch of times every 
year.

After moving  back east 16yrs ago, I've only made it back to Disneyland 
twice.  Two years ago we vacationed in LA and took the kids to DL for 
a day.  Last year my wife and I with our two kids spent a week in WDW.

The first thing I noticed is that WDW does not have CASEY JUNIOR train 
ride, DL does, and as a kid, it was my favorite ride.  The second thing 
I noticed was that WDW does not have the SWAN BOAT ride (next to casey 
jr.).  Again, a favorite ride as a kid, and I had to ride them both 
our last visit.  DL has the matahorn (sp?) (rollercoaster)  WDW 
doesn't.  Those are the biggies off the top of my head I recall as 
being different.  I don't believe you can really compare the two locations 
WDW and DL.  WDW will always be special for what it has to offer.  DL
will always be special to me first, cuz that's what I grew up with. 

When we were at DL I looked at DL as I had when I was a kid. I 
couldn't wait to do all the stuff.  I had to be constantly reminded 
that we had little kids.  When we vacationed at WDW, I saw all it 
had for the kids, they were first and foremost, not me.  So, I viewed,
compared the two from differing perspectives. DL will always be my
favorite place to see Mickey.  WDW is my favorite place to vacation.

Shhhhh!  KNOTTS BERRY FARM is right around the corner from DL.  It's a
	 real fun place to be too!!!!


	Bryan

        

    
    RE. .17  (Can I Find Happiness)
    
    Yes you can find happiness as noted in the last couple of replys,
    however, there is a BIG difference between the two.
    
    DISNEY WORLD is just that, a world ! The "major" pieces of WDW are
    
    	MAGIC KINGDOM
    	EPCOT CENTER
    	RIVER COUNTRY
    	ON-SITE Major Hotels
    	Disney-MGM Studio Tours (soon to open)
    	Typhoon Lagoon  (soon to open)
    	Pleasure Island
    	WDW VILLAGE Shopping area
   	Boating facilities
    	Golfing facilities
       	Etc
    	Etc
    
    Disneyland, however, is equivalent to just Magic Kingdom within
    WDW. There are no "other" major Disney attractions/parks at Disney
    land like EPCOT, MGM, etc.
    
    There are, of course, other non-Disney capabilities near Disneyland
    such as Knottsberry farm (amusement park), Studio Tours in L.A.,
    etc.           

    Hope this helps
    
    Mark
    
    
    

    RE: .17
    
>   Can I find happiness at Disneyland after WDW?
    
    Most certainly, *IF* you enter Disneyland with the proper perspective.
    
    Disneyland is NOT Walt Disney World.  This seems obvious but most
    people are "disappointed" in the fact that Disneyland is so "small"
    compared to WDW.  They go there expecting EXACTLY the same thing
    in all respects; this is wrong.
    
    Disneyland is 34 YEARS OLD so some of the new/wizzy ideas found
    at WDW may not be there and/or will be different.  Also, when
    Disneyland opened in 1955 it was "out in the boondocks" but now
    there are hotels literally across the street suffocating the park.
    
    Rest assured that Disneyland can go toe-to-toe with WDW in terms
    of quality, fun, etc. but certainly WDW is more overwhelming and
    (for want of a better term) "awesome".  That does NOT mean that
    WDW is "better" than Disneyland by a long shot.  In fact, I feel
    that Disneyland is "better" than WDW in many respects.  I won't
    bore you with a diatribe here, but my feeling is that Disneyland
    is a better implementation of the theme park architecture than WDW
    and given my choice of "Magic Kingdoms" to visit I opt for Disneyland.
    
>   What can I expect?  
    
    As mentioned several times in this topic, basically WDW's Magic
    Kingdom with a few rides and attractions which are exclusive to
    Disneyland (i.e. Star Tours, Splash Mountain, et al.).  The difference
    here is that Disneyland is more intimate and seems to be sculpted
    out of the real estate more than WDW-MK.  Disneyland has exciting
    nooks and crannies that you will not find in WDW-MK.
    
    Go thou with haste, and enjoy ye,
    David.

    
      I'm planning on spending 3 to 4 days in the Anaheim/LA area 
    sometime between 3/22 and 3/29. Could anyone recommend a cheap
    (as in cost) hotel/motel that would be central to say, Disneyland,
    Universal Studios, Knotts Berry Farm, etc. I'd like to stay away
    from the $80+ dollar a night accomadations. This would primarily
    be used for sleeping, so amenities are not critical.
                         
    Thanks,
        George

    RE: .23
    
>       ...hotel/motel that would be central to say, Disneyland,
>   Universal Studios, Knotts Berry Farm, etc.
    
    Well, the problem there is Disneyland/Knotts are in Anaheim and
    Buena Park while Universal is in Universal City (virtual
    Burbank/Hollywood area).  Anaheim and Buena Park are very close,
    but Universal City is about 50-60 miles away.
    
    If you would like to stay within "spitting distance" of Disneyland
    I would suggest you try any of the Best Westerns ("Cosmic Age",
    et al.), the Quality Inn (~$60 if memory serves), or Travelodge.
    Also, the hotels in Buena Park close to Knotts tend to be a bit
    cheaper than those close to Disneyland (for obvious reasons).  Of
    course, anything "convenient" is expensive (relatively speaking)
    so try not to be shocked.
    
    I suggest you visit your local Holiday Inn, Quality/Comfort/Clarion
    Inn, etc. and pick up one of their free hotel guides (usually available
    for the asking at the front desk).
    
    Hopefully someone who still lives there can assist further.
    
    David.

    After I got home I looked through my desk and found some hotel guides
    from 1988.  Keep that in mind and just use this information to fix
    a "ball park" estimate of your expenses.  All prices quoted are
    for "1-Person standard rate" so for your whole family it will be
    a bit more expensive.
    
    STANDARD DISCLAIMER:  I have not stayed at all of these places,
    nor do I get any "kick-backs" from them, etc. etc. etc.  These are
    only suggestions, your mileage may vary.
    
    
    
    Ramada Inn, Disneyland             714-978-8088
    1331 E. Katella
    Anaheim, CA  92805                 $68.00
    
    Free shuttle bus to Disneyland (about 1 mile from Disneyland)
    
    Ramada Suites                      714-776-9246
    1326 S. West St.
    Anaheim, CA  92802                 $56.00-79.00
    
    Literally across the street from Adventureland side of the park.
    I'm not making the address up, although it *does* sound like a lead-in
    for an Abbott and Costello routine...
    
    Holiday Inn, Buena Park            714-522-7000
    7000 Beach Blvd.
    Buena Park, CA  90620              $77.00
    
    Very close to Knotts and just 3-4 miles from Disney.
    
    Holiday Inn, Fullerton             714-992-1700
    222 W. Houston
    Fullerton, CA  92632               $62.00
    
    3.5 miles from Disneyland; free shuttle bus service.
    
    La Quinta, Costa Mesa              714-957-5841
    1515 S. Coast Drive
    Costa Mesa, CA  92626              $50.00
    
    9 miles from Disneyland but 2 miles from South Coast Plaza shopping
    mall (home of the original Disneyana shoppe!).  Also, about 2-3
    blocks from the DEC facility on Harbor Blvd in Costa Mesa in case
    you can't stay away from the office during your vacation.   :-)
    
    Comfort Inn, Downey                213-803-3555
    9438 E. Firestone Blvd.
    Downey, CA  90241                  $44.00-59.00
    
    8 miles to Disneyland, 23 miles to Universal Studios.  I am not
    too certain about the neighborhood (any Downey-ites out there?)
    but I have not been to Downey in 10 years, either.
    
    
    Hope this helps...TAKE ME WITH YOU...*PLEASE*...
    
    Sorry...lost control for a second there,
    David.

    A couple more I missed on the last reply.  Again, the normal
    disclaimers apply...
    
    
    
    Quality Inn Hotel/Conference Center         714-750-3131
    616 Convention Way
    Anaheim, CA   92802                         $57.00
    
    2 blocks from Disney, behind the Hilton.  You can see Disneyland's
    parking lot from the 8th floor (speaking from experience).
    
    Comfort Inn                                 714-750-5211
    2200 S. Harbor Blvd.
    Anaheim, CA  92802                          $38.00
    
    About 1000 yards from Disneyland.
    
    Quality Inn West                            714-220-0100
    727 S. Beach Blvd.
    Buena Park, CA  92804                       $50.00
    
    1 mile to Knotts, 3 miles to Disney, 30 miles to Universal, 3 miles
    to Los Alamitos Horse Track (what more could you want?).
    
    
    I can't find my Best Western guide for the life of me.  Oh well...
    
    
    Hope this helps,
    David.

    Last year we went to the Holiday Inn at Buena Park and they made
    our stay simply wonderful.  Last year they were in the 
    Entertainment 88 book, (discounted meals, activities, theatres,
    hotels). The book cost us $35, but using it got us 50% discount 
    at that hotel! I think we paid about $40 per night including tax 
    and the cot for my daughter. There is a Boston edition.  This years
    entries for Anaheim are: Anahiem Marriott  (714-750-8000)
                             700 Convention Way 
    			     Valid for any room at 50% off the regular
                             price. Maximum stay is 7 nights. Valid Anytime 
                             
                             Buena Park Hotel   (800-854-8792)
    			     7675 Crescent Ave. Buena Park - 7mi from
                             Disneyworld- free shuttle
    			     Valid for any room at 50% off the regular
                             price. Valid anytime. Reservations accepted
                             NO MORE THAN 30 days in advance.
    
    The only phone # I can find in my book is for the Entertainment
    head office at 313-642-8300. Perhaps they can tell you where to
    find the book.
    
    In any event call the hotel before buying the book to see how much
    the discounted rate would be. Just tell them you have the entertainment
    89 card.
    
    Carol
    

    re: .27
    
    Boston area Entertainment '89 coupon books were available by mail order
    from Corporate Employee Activities in CFO around November - December
    for about $25.  Give them a call and see if they have any left. 

    RE: .5
    
    Minot nit on WDW Pirates... it *does* have a drop to start things off
    but it has only the one.  It still is not nearly as good as Disneyland
    but is good anyway.
    
    George
    
    

    
    Re: .30
    
        George,
    
          I thought the WDW drop was at or near the end of Pirates.
          
        George

    RE: .30
    
    With all due respect, I do not consider a drop of some 6 whole feet
    (at the beginning of the ride) as "exciting" as the 2 STORY drop at
    Disneyland followed by another 8-10 feet (roughly a story) right
    behind that.  Besides, the WDW "drop" feels more like a linear
    acceleration in the dark whereas Disneyland lets you see the 
    "waterfall" *then* dumps you off of it.
    
    
    Sorry to be such a pundit,
    David.

    Ah! NOW YOU'VE DONE IT!  spoiled the suprise for anyone who might
    go there from WDW.
    

    Re: .31
    
    Spoiler warning in deference to WORDS::BADGER :-)
    �information on WDW/DL Pirates...�
    
    WDW's Pirates drop is fairly near the begining..after a few caves and
    just after a skelton piloting a wrecked ship.  I didn't mean to imply
    that it was as impressive or exciting as Disneyland's, merely pointing
    out that that facet of the ride still existed..just not at such a
    grandeous scale.
    
    George
    

    
       Here is the calender for Disneyland thru the middle of June. The
    spring program includes, Blast To The Past. This is the theme that
    is showcased throughout the park. Entertainment includes the Main
    Street Hop, a choreographed medly of song and dance with cast members
    and Disney characters on Main Street. A Blast To The Past Parade,
    Small World Beach Party, and Goofy's Malt Shop.
    
       Along with this there are bands set up eveywhere possible, playing
    music of the 50's and 60's throughout the day and night.  The Main
    Street Electrical Parade doesn't start until May 5th, only on weekends
    (except Memorial Day) until June 5th. From April 16th to Jun 3rd,
    the park is open till 7:00 during the week, and 12:00 Fri - Sun. 
    Starting June 4th, the park is open all week until 12:00 with
    exceptions on a couple Fridays(10:00), and Saturdays (1:00). The
    Electrical Parade runs all week starting Jun 5th.
    
    George 
      
    

    All right...who knows the *real* story?
    
    I was under the impression that Star Tours was a *stationary*,
    multi-degree of freedom, flight simulator ride.  When I rode it
    I felt like we were flying, but I never sensed any true forward
    motion per se.
    
    I have just finished an article in Disney News which leads me to
    believe that Star Tours is actually a *mobile* flight simulator.
    In other words, the cabin's simulator legs are mounted to a chassis
    which is running along a track.  As you move along the track the
    entire cabin yaws/pitches/etc. in addition to the forward motion.
    
    Help?  Anyone know?  Anyone know anyone who knows?
    
    
    More confused and impressed with this ride than ever,
    David.

    
    RE: .36
    
     You are right about how it moves.  Exactly how you described it.
    It was designed from the plans which are used for flight simulators
    for the Space Shuttle, Military and Commercial Aircraft.
    
     It shocked me when I put my camera bag under my seat, as instructed,
    then put my coat on top of it and within 2 seconds of 'take-off',
    I had to stomp on my coat from flying to the front of the cabin.
    
     It does move forward, in the sense that your head can move forward
    by stretching your neck but your feet never move on the floor...
    
    Rich

    With the great deals the airlines are offering right now, we've
    decided to take a trip to Disneyland.  Having never been west of
    Pennsylvania, I really could use some help on planning this trip.
    
    From the description of L.A. in the travel guide books, I guess
    we have no choice but to rent a car, but I was wondering if we stay
    in Anaheim, are there any tours INTO L.A.?  I really hate to drive
    anywhere that's not familiar, and the freeways in California sound
    horrible!  I know there are tours to Disneyland from L.A., but are
    there tours from Disneyland to say, Universal?
    
    I'd really appreciate any help you could give me with this trip.

    Re: .38
    
       I can't speak fo the tours, but I was a first timer myself back
     in March, and I didn't have any big problems with the CA freeways.
     Sure there was traffic, but I tried getting out early in the morning
     and get to where I was going. I had maps to help me out, and the
     way the highways in CA are marked, I see no reason why anyone would
     get lost. I think tours are too confining, but thats just my own
     opinion.
    
     George_Who_Logged_2000_Miles_With_A_Rental_In_CA_In_2_Weeks...

    George,
    
    Thanks for the information.  We did plan on renting a car, but I
    was planning on not driving any more that we had too.  One of the
    guide books I bought really made the freeways sound confusing. 
    One example:  The San Diego Freeway does not go to San Diego.  I
    was getting more confused the more I read.  
    
    Your note gave me a little encouragement!
    
    Thanks

RE 8.38

While my husband was doing DECUS last October, I went with him to Anaheim
and "hung-out" until he was finished so we could do things together.  But, 
while he was working, I went on tours by myself (which was kinda strange 
considering it was my first time to do such things alone), but I actually had 
a good time.  All of the Disney-area hotels/motels have some kind of tour 
connection to pretty much anywhere.  From Hollywood to Universal Studios, the 
Spruce Goose to Tijuana.  Even the San Diego Zoo and Sea World.  The different 
tour companies will typically pick you up from your lodging and take you to a 
central "originating" terminal.  You will hop the bus you're interested in 
taking and when you're finished, they will take you back to where they picked 
you up.

While he was officially on business, we had his rental to go places in the 
evenings, and I have family in the LA area who were more than willing to pick 
us up but, and although we got a car with the Disney package that we bought,
I believe we would've been just fine without one.  There are shuttles to/from 
both the Orange County and LA airports that run ALL the time (I came in on
a shuttle, and the only difficult part of it was that it was all so foreign
to me ... !)

I wouldn't recommend them to EVERYBODY, but for me, they were interesting and
gave me the opportunity to check out the tourist-o things of California.  There
were people with kids of all ages.

Have fun,

elaine

    .41
    
    That's exactly what I needed to know!  
    
    Thanks!!

    Disneyland also has New Orleans Square and Bear Country which the
    WDW Magic Kingdom does not.  The Priates of the Carribean and Small
    World attractions are better at DL than the MK of WDW.

    From now  on  please  use  topic  102.*  for discusion of hotels in the
    Anaheim area, and  leave  this  topic  for  discusion  of Disneyland in
    general.  I should  of  thought  of  opening a topic on this before but
    being a WDW person it sliped my mind.
    
    Claude

    My husband was talking to someone last night who is visiting from
    California.  It seems McDonald's in Calif. is having a contest and
    he had won a pass to Disneyland and he gave it to my husband.  The 
    problem is, the expiration date is 6/9/89 and we're not going until 
    July.
    
    If anyone is visiting Disneyland before this date, let me know and
    I'll be glad to send it to you.

    
    I wonder what is going on in March '90. We are thinking of taking
    the kids on spring break.
    
    Is it going to be more expensive that time of year? What about 
    crowds? Anything "special" going on like you were discussing about
    Blast to the Past? 
    
    And lastly do you think we can go for say..5 days and come back
    sane with a 5,6 and 7 year old?
    
    We need to try to go as cheaply as possible. I know that I have seen
    some package deals and the motels seen reasonable but I wonder about
    how much it will cost to fly.
    
    Any info is greatly appreciated.
    
    Rothel
    

    also one more thing...
    I am looking at the package deal for disneyland and it has a bus
    transportation deal. That would be almost $200 extra..is it worth
    it or should we just take a cab? I don't know how far the John
    Wayne airport is from Disneyland. (I know that you get a carefree
    bonus extra. Just ignore that though and is it worth it for the fair)
    wonder what a cab cost.
    
    Me again...Rothel
    

    In celebration of Disneyland 35th anniversary on July 17th '90 (I think
    that the date),  Disneyland  will  be  celebrating  throughtout the '90
    calendar year starting January  1st.    The  will  be  a  prize machine
    similar to the 30th, giving away similar prizes including a daily grand
    prize of a GEO car.
    
    Claude

    I order to celebrate the 35th anniversary of the original Magic
    Kingdom in California, Disney has just jacked up the price by $2.00.
    The cost for a single day is now over $25.00 for an adult.
    
    "Isn't that special!"

>    I order to celebrate the 35th anniversary of the original Magic
>    Kingdom in California, Disney has just jacked up the price by $2.00.
>    The cost for a single day is now over $25.00 for an adult.
>    "Isn't that special!"
    
    Someone has  to  pay  for  all those gifts and daily GEO car, you think
    it'll come frome Mike's pay?
    
    Claude

    We're going, we're going! In June! (is it June yet?).
    
    Driving and taking 3 days to see all. But...I have some questions.
    
    Is tomorrow land going to be open?
    Can a 5, 7, and 7 year old boy handle the flight simulator (can't
    remember what you called it.) Can mom?
    
    We will be there thursday, Friday and Saturday June 14, 15, and 16th.
    Does anyone know of anything going on then?
    Will it be super crowded?
    
    Anything else you can add would be great.
    
    Yeah... I can't wait!
    
    Rothel

>    Driving and taking 3 days to see all. But...I have some questions.
    
      Better add a few more days especially with 3 children (and Ed).
    
>    Can a 5, 7, and 7 year old boy handle the flight simulator (can't
>    remember what you called it.) Can mom?
    
      Star Tours.  Probably.  I've known those who don't much care for
      rides like Space Mountain (the roller coaster), but LOVE Star Tours.
    
>    We will be there thursday, Friday and Saturday June 14, 15, and 16th.
>    Does anyone know of anything going on then?
    
     Don't know -- but if you and Ed allow me to tag along, I'll be sure
     and let you know at least 15 minutes in advance.  You can probably call
     and find out what special events are planned if any.
    
>    Will it be super crowded?
    
       Probably crowded, but not super crowded.  But the longer operating
       hours can make up for it.
    
    
    Roger (who worked with Ed in RA60 manufacturing many moons ago)
    Anything else you can add would be great.
    
    Yeah... I can't wait!
    
    Rothel

    

The kids will probably be fine on Star Tours, especially the 7 year olds.
It's kind of like a roller coaster ride, without the danger.

As far as I'm concerned, it's EXCELLENT.

           Carol

    According to  CNN's Headline News, yesterday Disney executives announce
    a 10 year  development plan for it's Disneyland Park in California (see
    related topic 155.*).  I know that a few years ago when they and George
    Lucas were doing Star Tours, they announced that Lucas would be looking
    into doing other attractions for the park.
    
    Does anyone know if this 10 year plan includes the Lucas stuff?
    
    Did any of the papers in California list the details?
    
    thanks,
    
    Claude

    Thank you Roger and Carol.
    Roger I will ask Ed if you can come. I am sure he won't mind (sure,
    sure!).
    
    Carol, thank you for your input. I can't wait to see the boys faces!
    
    Its been cut down to 2 days though and my mom, who is 70 might go.
    Might just have to hit the main points. 
    
    Rothel
    

    My 2 1/2 year old went on Star Tours in "88 & loved it. He has since
    been hooked on simulators, just old tight & enjoy it.
    
    Richard.

    Next to the disneyland hotel there was a large tact of farm land that
    stayed an active farm for many years due to tax breaks and local law. 
    Eventually the farmer sold the land and Disney Inc. has announced
    several plans to develop the land and the hotel into something like
    Pleasure Island at WDW. 

    Personaly I wish they buy out the trucking firm behind the park and
    expand the park. 

    mike

>   Personaly I wish they buy out the trucking firm behind the park and
>   expand the park. 

    That *would* be nice, but re-routing I-5 to go *under* the park's
    expansion would be quite a mess.  Not to mention that the Monorail
    garages, the submarine pens, et al. are located there now and would
    have to be moved (which would impact ride availability I'm sure).

    David.

    The last couple of times that I have visited "The Happiest Place on
    Earth" the Main Street transportation has been inactive.  No
    double-decker bus; no fire engine; no horse-drawn trolleys.  Is it just
    that my last few trips have been during the off season, or has
    Disneyland done away with all the old "A-ticket" rides?


    David.

    I'm not sure if this is the right topic to enter this under, but I
    figure it's as good as any.  This is something that I have always
    wondered about, and maybe one of you Disneyland buffs (I have never
    been to Disneyland, but hope to go someday in the not to distant
    future) could set the record straight.
    
    As we all know (well, that is, any true Disney fan anyway) that
    Disneyland opened on July 17, 1955.  However, "Sleeping Beauty" (the
    last fairy tale the Disney Studios made up till "The Little Mermaid")
    did not reach the movie theaters until January, 1959.
    
    So here's the big question these dates raise:  Was Sleeping Beauty's
    Castle in Disneyland aways named Sleeping Beauty's Castle, or was it
    originally titled something else?  If anyone knows, I would be greatly
    interested (as I'm sure many others would be too).
    
    John 
    

    Let me see if I can redeem myself for actually referring to "Snow
    White's Castle" [sic] in 207.1.

    I looked in Randy Bright's excellent "Disneyland: inside story."
    (published in 1987 by Harry N. Abrams, Incorporated, New York, and
    available in The Disney Store).

    From page 86 (in the chapter on the construction of Disneyland),
    "Sleeping Beauty Castle at the entrance to Fantasyland, probably one of
    the most familiar shapes in the world today, occasioned a great debate
    as it lay on the drawing board."  No mention of another name, even
    though the book frequently mentions name changes in the park's past.

    From page 100 (opening day), "... Walt paused near the drawbridge to
    Sleeping Beauty Castle and read the Fantasyland dedication aloud."

    And then on page 140, "... did indeed figure out a way to cram a
    Sleeping Beauty attraction inside a castle that was never planned to
    host a show.  When the attraction opened in 1957, the guests climbed a
    winding staircase through the castle, where beautiful miniature
    dioramas unfolded before them, telling the story of Sleeping Beauty."
    Of course, the castle was there right from opening day.  It was only
    the walk-through attraction that was added in April 1957.

    Knowing how important the classic stories were to Walt, I suspect the
    castle was inspired by the story alone.  He may have already been
    planning or even producing the film in 1955.  But the name "Sleeping
    Beauty" didn't rely on the film for familiarity as other characters
    did.

    So my guess is that the story first inspired the castle and only a
    little later inspired the film.  Therefore, the name "Sleeping Beauty
    Castle" was there right from the start.  Sound plausible?

    In the Summer 1990 issue of "Disney News" there is an article about
    some of the artists that helped design Disneyland.  In the section on
    Eyvind Earle, who at 23 was the "stylist" for the Sleeping Beauty
    picture, it says:

         Work on "Sleeping Beauty" was well under way in 1954
         when Walt Disney asked asked Marvin Davis and Richard
         Irvine, two artist who had been recruited from 20th
         Century-Fox studios, to design a fantasy castle, as a
         focal point for Disneyland.  Their creation became
         Sleeping Beauty Castle, with a three-dimensional
         depiction of the fairy tale providing a walk-through
         attraction inside the structure.  Eyvind Earle made
         thematic paintings for the walk-through based on scenes
         from the animated feature.

    Hmm, I haven't read all of Disney News yet.  I'll have to read the
    article.
    
    When I was in Europe in 1977, we went to (sorry about spelling here!)
    Neuschwanstein Castle (I'm sure I butchered it; pronounced
    Noosh-vun-stine) in old Bavaria.  We were told there that this was the
    inspiration for Walt Disney's Sleeping Beauty Castle.  And they
    certainly do look a lot alike!
    
    Maybe the Bavarian castle was based on Disneyland?  Any one have info?
    
    
    Susan

    RE: .63

>   Maybe the Bavarian castle was based on Disneyland?  Any one have info?

    I am not certain what you mean here, but I will attempt to answer it
    as literally posed.

    No, Neuschwanstein was *not* based on the castle at Disneyland. 
    Neuschwanstein was built in the late 1800's while Disneyland was built
    circa 1954-5.  You *are* correct, however, in stating that WDW/MK's
    castle was inspired by the famous Bavarian landmark.


    FWIW,
    David.

Re: .63

�    When I was in Europe in 1977, we went to (sorry about spelling here!)
�    Neuschwanstein Castle (I'm sure I butchered it; pronounced
�    Noosh-vun-stine) in old Bavaria.  We were told there that this was the
�    inspiration for Walt Disney's Sleeping Beauty Castle.  And they
�    certainly do look a lot alike!
    
    Spelling is perfect.  Pronunciation in high German is: noy-SCHVON-shtine.

    
      I may be going on a Cali trip in late October and I would like to
     spend a day at Disneyland, I've never been there (sigh). I was
     wondering what day is considered the least crowded ? I know WDW
     is least crowded on Sat and Sun, How about Disneyland ???
    
                                Thanks,
    
                                       -Rob
    
    

    Since Disneyland draws a large local crowd, I would suspect that during
    the school year weekends and holidays would be the busiest.  I would
    shoot for mid-week.

    After taping all the 35th anniversary specials (see 18.17), I
    have a few questions.
    
    The special "From the Pirates of the Caribbean to the World of
    Tomorrow" showed most of the details of the ride, from the model
    to an actual ride through it.  The Yo-Ho song was played only at
    the end of the ride (where the musicians are) as opposed to the
    whole time like in WDW which made it possible to hear the dialog
    between the pirates.  Is the ride really like this or was this
    something special?  If this is normal, the ride must be much better
    at Disneyland.
    
    Another thing I liked was the layout of the transportation systems
    in Tomorrowland.  The road for Autopia looked like a freeway instead
    of a race track.  Is it still like that?  Then add on the WEDway
    People Mover tracks - mostly outside and without a roof over it,
    the monorail tracks and the submarines running underneath.  It
    surely looked like a major transportation system.  Is it still like
    that or have "improvements" made it look more like WDW?  In the
    special the submarines looked like real submarines instead of like
    the ones at WDW.  Are these still the same or have they been changed?
    
    In general, assuming not too much has changed, the scenes they
    showed in the specials (probably all the best ones!) looked much
    nicer than the Magic Kingdom in WDW (if that's possible).  There
    just seemed to be so much more of Walt in Disneyland.  Please
    let me know if it really is nicer.
    
    Thanks,
    Ruth

    >In the
    >special the submarines looked like real submarines instead of like
    >the ones at WDW.  Are these still the same or have they been changed?
    
    When I visited Disneyland last Februrary, the submarines were rather
    normal looking, not like the Nautiluses you see at WDW. (That is if you
    don't mind the yellows and oranges and black colors on the subs)  If I
    remember correctly, the ride is Journey Beneath the Sea or something
    like that, not 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea like Florida. 
    Unfortunately, I did not have a chance to go on that attraction, the
    line was too long and my time in the park was short.
    
    Joel
    

    { WARNING: biased, opinionated reply follows }
    
    re: .68

    The answer to all of your questions regarding "is ____ still that way
    in Disneyland" is "yes".  Your statement: 

>   nicer than the Magic Kingdom in WDW (if that's possible).  There
>   just seemed to be so much more of Walt in Disneyland.

    summarizes *my* feelings exactly.  I have maintained for a number of
    years that Disneyland is "better" than WDW/MK in a variety of ways.  My
    standard line on this is:

           "Disneyland is a better implementation of the Disney
             theme park architecture than Walt Disney World"

    Sure, there are those who will argue with me and others who will
    support this position.  I will resist the urge to gobble disk space
    here discussing/defending this statement (contact me offline for a
    lengthy diatribe on the inferiority of WDW to Disneyland), but *will*
    say that you owe yourself a trip to Disneyland just to compare the two,
    if for no other reason.

    Yes...WDW is newer.

    Yes...WDW is bigger.

    Yes...WDW bought up all surrounding properties so that no hotels
    encroach on the park's property, etc.

    Yes...there is much more to do at WDW thanks to it being a 3 theme park
    resort instead of a single theme park.

    Still...Disneyland has pulled me in 35 times to date.  WDW?  2 times.
    (I'm planning a 3rd trip now that Disney/MGM is open along with several
    additions to EPCOT which have piqued my interest).


    To kibitz on your original questions...

    "Pirates..." lets you hear the dialog with the theme song heard towards
    the end of the ride as you mentioned.  This attraction is *quite*
    different in Disneyland than WDW/MK.

    The Autopia freeway is *very* convoluted in Disneyland and includes
    over-/under-passes by the Autopia cars, the Monorail, and the WEDway
    PeopleMover.

    The submarines are *not* themed after 20,000 leagues (as Joel noted)
    and were designed with the assistance of General Dynamics.  Originally,
    they were painted battle gray just like the subs of the 50's, but were
    recently re-painted to bright yellow with burnt orange trim (they look
    tacky now, IMHO).  The voyage takes you to the North Pole via Atlantis.



    I relinquish my soapbox now,
    David.

    Thanks for the info!  David, feel free to contact me off line.
    I'd love to hear your comparison.  I believed that WDW was the
    new and improved version of Disneyland (you know, learn from
    the mistakes you made the first time) until very recently.  After
    reading yet another biography of Walt it dawned on me that Walt
    died in 1966(?) and WDW didn't open until 1971.  Although Walt was
    involved in the planning, he never saw the completed product so I
    wonder how much of the park is really what he wanted.

    I agree with David!  There's something about the originality of
    Disneyland that's missing at WDW.  And, BTW, Small World is about one
    million times better at Disneyland than at WDW!!  It's *nothing* in
    WDW.  It's *the* ride in Disneyland (IMHO)!
    
    
    Susan

    Rep to <<< Note 8.71 by CLOSET::AAARGH::LOWELL "Grim Grinning Ghosts..." >>>

>    After reading yet another biography of Walt it dawned on me that Walt
>    died in 1966(?) and WDW didn't open until 1971.  Although Walt was
>    involved in the planning, he never saw the completed product so I
>    wonder how much of the park is really what he wanted.

    Ruth,
    
    WDW was complete by Walt's brother Roy, and since  they  were always at
    odds with each other, ever since Walt changed the name  of  the company
    from Disney Brothers Productions to Walt Disney Productions back in the
    30's  (Walt  was  the  Idea  man,  Roy  the Money man), I sure  there's
    probably more of Roy in WDW that Walt.
    
    Claude

    I grew up 5 miles from Disneyland. Remember all the orange groves and
    how uncongested the area was at that time. Disney should have bought
    the rest of Orange county to save it from the hotel,motel, minimall
    developers, and polluters.
    
    Once I'm in Disneyland, yes I can pretend what has happened to Southern
    California in 30 years hasn't.
    
    Dave
    

    There was an AP article in this weekend's paper discussing a rumor from
    unnamed Disney cast members that the Mr. Linclon attraction at
    Disneyland, (which is now closed for "refurbishment"), will reopen as
    the 3D Muppet movie that has been discussed elsewhere in this
    conference.

    Official Disney spokesmen deny the rumor, and decline to comment
    further saying that they will be announcing their plans in the near
    future.  The article points out that Mr. Linclon underwent a $200,000
    refurb two years ago.

    Comments?

    RE: .75

    As much as Walt loved and revered Lincoln, I would doubt that this
    attraction would ever disappear from Main Street USA.  When I was there
    in February it still looked to be in excellent shape and certainly did
    not require any "refurbishment"; IMHO.

    Of course, *nothing* would surprise me these days knowing the weasels
    that run the Disney empire!


    Grumble,
    David.

    RE: Mr. Lincoln
    
       I heard the same "rumor" on CNN the other night.  The "newscaster"
    called it, "the end of an era".  
    
       Tony

    Actually, the " rumors " that you folks have been hearing about the 
    " Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln " are true. This attraction will be
    closing later this month. After massive refurbishment, the Main Street
    Opera House will re-open as the home of the" Kermit the Frog presents
    Muppetvision in 3D " film.
    
    Where did I get my info ? From Craig Wilson, one of the senior 
    Imagineers within the Disney organization. Mr. Wilson was the individual
    who inadvertantly " leaked " word about the " Lincoln " closure to the
    press. You see, Wilson was speaking last month at the National Fantasy Fan
    Club -- a national Disneyana fan organization based out of Los Angeles --
    annual convention last month, when someone asked a question about
    whether Jim Henson's death would effect the proposed Disney- Muppet
    merger. Wilson said no, that -- while Henson's death was viewed as a
    tragic loss by both Disney and the Henson organization -- the
    acquisition was still going through and that the Muppets had already made
    their official Disney debut at the MGM Theme park, where Kermit & crew were
    began appearing in a daily parade and stage show on June 1st. Someone then
    asked when the Muppets would be begin appearing in Anaheim. In the process
    of answering this question, Wilson accidently mentioned that the 3D Muppet
    movie would most likely be displacing " The Great Moments with Mr.
    Lincoln " attraction at the Main Street Opera House.
    
    Why is the Disney organization shutting down Mr. Lincoln to make room
    for Kermit and company ? Well, numbers have a lot to do with it. For 
    several years now, " Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln " has been playing 
    to relatively empty houses. In their rush to take in the hi-tech
    thrills of " Star Tours " and " Splash Mountain," most Disneyland
    visitors race right by the Main Street Opera house. Few -- if any --
    having been swinging in to see Abe. ( When I visited Disneyland last 
    month, I caught a mid-afternoon presentation of " Great Moments. " 
    Everywhere else in the park, there were hour long waits to get on rides
    -- ANY ride. I was able to walk right into the Main Street Opera house.
    As the doors closed at the start of the show, there were fewer than 25
    people in a theater that seats over 300. It was kind of sad to see. )
    
    So, the Imagineers feel that much better use can be made of the Main 
    Street Opera House. They'd like to see all 300 plus seats filled for 
    every performances -- which is why Kermit's replacing Abe for a while.
    
    Now, according to my sources, the Disney Company wants to duplicate the
    excitement as well as the crowds that came to their Florida and California
    parks the summer " Captain EO " opened. To do this, Eisner and crew wants
    " Kermit the Frog Presents Muppetvision in 3D " to open in Disneyland at the
    same time this attraction debuts at the Disney-MGM Studio Theme Park.
    A brand new theater is being built for this attraction in Orlando and
    will be located in the " Muppet Studios " building on the MGM backlot.
    In Anaheim, well .... The " Kermit the Frog presents Muppetvision 3D "
    theater isn't scheduled to be completed 'til 1993. So, if the film is
    going to debut simultaneously in Anaheim and Orlando, something at
    Disneyland has got to shut down to make room for Kermit and company.
    And -- seeing as " Captain EO " is still drawing crowds at his
    Tomorrowland Theater and " Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln " is playing
    to empty houses -- it looks like Abe's due to make an exit ... at least 
    for a while ( More on this later ).
    
    Now, I know a lot of hard-core Disneyland fans will be upset at the
    idea of " Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln " being shut down. After all, 
    this is one of the more historically significant Disneyland attraction
    we're talking about here. " Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln " was actually
    the first time Walt Disney Productions had been able to use audio
    animatronics to sucessfully recreate a believable human figure. Talking
    birds, yes. Singing dolls, yes. Charging hippos, roaring dinosaurs had
    all been recreated before -- but the company had never been able to
    pull off a believable human figure until Mr. Lincoln made his debut at the
    1964 New York World's Fair. The featured attraction at the State of
    Illinois pavilion, Abe was the smash hit of the fair. And when the fair
    officially shut down in 1966, " Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln " --
    along with several other attractions that Disney created specifically
    for the New York World's Fair : " It's a Small World, " " The Carousel
    of Progress " as well as the dinosaurs featured in the " Primeval
    World " section of the Grand Canyon diorama railroad -- were trucked out to
    Anaheim for installation at Disneyland.
    
    Opening in California in 1967, " Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln " drew
    crowds for a while. But Abe's charm began to pale as newer, larger
    scale audio-animatronic attractions made their debuts. Given the choice
    of seeing one audio animatronic figure imitate our 16th president or
    dozens of robots haunt a house or sack a village, Disneyland visitors
    opted for the bigger, brassy attractions.
    
    By 1970, the crowds had gotten so small, the Disney Company actually 
    pulled the pull on Abe for a while. For eighteen months, the Main
    Street Opera House was used to show " The Walt Disney Story " -- a film
    showed in the Opera House at Walt Disney World's Main Street that 
    highlighted the life and times of the company's founder. But the press
    and the public gave the company a bad time for shutting down Abe. So,
    by 1973, " Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln " had re-openned in time for
    the nation's bicentennial. It still did mediocre business.
    
    And so it went on into the 1980s. By the time Disneyland abandoned its 
    ticket book format in favor of the all park passport, fewer than 
    an eighth of all park visitors bothered to stop in and visit Mr. Lincoln
    during their day in Anaheim. Hoping that a more life-like version of 
    Abe might bring the crowds in, the Walt Disney Company spent $ 200,000
    in 1984 to upgrade " Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln." This version of
    the show -- featuring music from EPCOT Center's " America Adventure " 
    -- also made use of the latest generation of audio-animatronic figures,
    known by company insiders as " S " figures. Developed in association with
    the University of Utah -- a school noted for its work with the development 
    of artificial limbs -- these AA figures are capable of amazingly fluid 
    movement. (  By the way, The only other " S " figures that can currently be
    seen in the parks are the Wicked Witch of the West in Disney-MGM's " The
    Great Movie Ride " and the auctioneer in Disneyland's " Pirates of the
    Carribbean." This " S " figure replaced the attraction's old auctioneer
    when DL's " Pirates " attraction underwent its annual rehab last fall.
    All the other figures in DL's " Pirates " are still original generation
    AA figures. ) In spite of the new music and state of the art hardware,
    modern day Disneyland visitors still passed Mr. Lincoln.
    
    So, a decision was made last year to pull the plug temporarily
    on Mr. Lincoln. Please note the word " temporarily. " According to
    my sources within the Disney organization, the Muppets will only be
    staying in the Main Street Opera House for a year or two. After that,
    Kermit and crew will be moving to a theater built especially for their
    3D movie. This new theater will be located in " Mickey's Starland, " which
    is scheduled to open in 1993. Based on the popular " Mickey's
    Starland " area at WDW's Magic Kingdom, this Disneyland addition will
    be built on the site Videopolis is currently located. DL's " Mickey's
    Starland " -- featuring a walk-through Mickey Mouse house, the Muppets'
    3D movie as well as a " Little Mermaid " ride-through attraction --
    will open as part of the Disney Company's year-long celebration of 
    Mickey's 65th birthday.
    
    Anywho, once the Muppets move into their new theater behind Fantasyland,
    my friends at Disney say Abe should return. In fact, I'm told that
    there's a group of Imagineers pushing for a further upgrade of the " Great
    Moments with Mr. Lincoln " attraction when Abe makes his comeback in
    1993. They'd like to incorporate parts of WDW's " Hall of Presidents "
    into the next version of the venerable old Disneyland attraction and
    have Abe joined on stage by the rest of the nation's chief executives.
    Given Eisner's tight grip on a buck, I'm not sure this revamp is going 
    to fly -- but it'd sure be snazzy if it did.
    
    Of course, there are another bunch of Imagineers who are pulling for 
    Main Street's Opera House, Sun Bank building as well as the Chapeau to
    be ripped out completely. You see, the area between those buildings and
    Tomorrowland is where " Hollywoodland " is supposed to be located.
    These Imagineers are arguing for a new street leading to this new
    addition to the park -- lined with period buildings that will ease
    Disneyland visitors' transition from turn-of-the-century America to
    1930s Hollywood -- should be built right through the area where the
    Opera House now stands. Which group of Imagineers will eventually win
    out remains to be seen.
    
    Rest assured, the Disney Company knows that the press and the public
    will give them a bad time when they shut down " Great Moments with Mr.
    Lincoln. " After all, it happened in 1970 -- why shouldn't it happen 
    again in 1990 ? So, they've probably already got press releases in the work
    explaining that this is just a temporary move and that Abe will return
    sometime in 1993. So don't get too teary eyed when you hear that Miss Piggy 
    is putting Honest Abe out of work. If all goes according to plan, he'll be 
    back on the job in Anaheim in a year or so -- bigger and better than
    ever.
    
    I hope.
    
    I know this probaby more information that anyone would ever want to
    know about Disneyland, the Muppets, audio animatronics or Abw Lincoln,
    but I've been carrying this crap around in my head for a month now
    since I got back from that Disneynana convention and I had to dump it out
    somewhere.
    
    By the way, if anyone else has any specific questions about future
    attractions at the parks ( I've got some great inside scoops on the 
    proposed design for the new Tomorrowland ), I'd be glad to pass along the
    poop I picked up out in Anaheim last month.
    
    Hope to hear from all you Disney dweebs soon,
    Somewhat sincerely yours,
    
    Robespierre
                                                 

    
    
    
    Reply to HILL
    
             Please enter in more info, I really like to read that
             kind of stuff.
    
    
                       Roy C Wood
                     -=-=-R~C-=-=-

    RE: .78

    Fantastic reply; thanks very much for taking the time to enter it.  I
    am *very* disappointed that Mr. Lincoln will bow-out yet again
    regardless of the brevity thereof.  I guess I am just one of those
    scant 20% that actually bother to catch the show *every time* I visit
    Disneyland.  BTW, when they upgraded to the S AudioAnimatrons I was
    *extremely* impressed having seen the older model's show so many times. 
    Really, the difference was like night and day.

>   By the way, if anyone else has any specific questions about future
>   attractions at the parks ( I've got some great inside scoops on the 
>   proposed design for the new Tomorrowland ), I'd be glad to pass along the
>   poop I picked up out in Anaheim last month.

    I asked about the new Tomorrowland back in 8.1, so please refer to that
    and note away!  I, for one, am dying to know.  All I have heard so far
    is that Alien Encounters is the next addition to Tomorrowland and
    that it, like Star Tours, will be a joint Disney/Lucas production. 
    Yes?  No?  Eh?    HELP!


    David.

     RE : 80
    
    
    	So, you want to hear about Disneyland's new Tomorrowland. Well, 
    have I got some news for you !
    
    	Alright, let me preface this by saying that this info comes from
    Disney Imagineers Bruce Gordon and Dave Mumford. Those of you familiar
    with the parks might recognize their names. Bruce and Dave -- along
    with Craig Wilson and Tony Baxter -- are considered the " boy wonders "
    of Disney's Imagineering department. These guys are responsible for most
    of the concepts and design work done on many of the major attractions built
    at the Disney parks over the past ten years. ( For example, back in the
    early 1980s, Gordon, Mumford and Baxter noticed that all of the other
    southern Californian amusement parks had flume rides. These water-based
    attractions had proven to be extremely popular with teenagers, an age
    group that Disneyland had trouble attracting due to its family image.
    So, how do you create an exciting water flume attraction that would
    still fit in Disneyland's squeaky clean image ? Simple ! You pull all
    those musical animals out of Tomorrowland's dilapidated " America Sings "
    attraction, ship 'em on over to Bear Country, where you build yourself a
    monstrous flume track. Then, you line the banks of your flume track
    with all them musical critters, teach them to sing " Zip-a-dee-Doo-Da "
    and -- PRESTO CHANGEO ! -- you've got yourself a " Splash Mountain. "
    Them that's been on this ride will have to agree that it's really an
    intriguing hybred -- a witty marriage of the traditional cutesy-poo
    children's attractions found in the Disney parks with the wild thrills of 
    " Space Mountain " or " Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. " It's easily
    the most impressive ride-through attraction to bow at Disneyland since
    " Pirates " opened its doors in 1967. Best of all, it's an ecologically
    sound attraction. After all, Baxter, Mumford and Gordon were able to 
    recycle most of the audio-animatronic figures used in the " America
    Sings " show by using them throughout " Splash Mountain. " Even better,
    the openning of this new attraction in the northwest corner of the park
    brought " Bear Country " -- now " Critter Country " -- something it had 
    never seen before : crowds. In spite of the turn-away business " The 
    Country Bear Jamboree " does in Florida, this show never seemed to catch
    on on the West Coast. As a result, The " Country Bear Jamboree " played
    to half-empty houses for years before " Splash Mountain " came along. 
    Nowadays, tens of thousands of people stop in to see the show at DL's
    Grizzly Hall or have a leisurely lunch at  the " Hungry Bear "
    restaurant. This one attraction has caused millions of people to go
    back to Disneyland as well as revitalized a faded part of the park. So --
    to make a long parenthetical example/anecdote short : Bruce, Dave and 
    Tony are bright guys and the Disney company thinks very highly of them.
    These are the minds that will shape the look and layout of the Disney
    parks for the next few decades. )
    
    	Anywho, Bruce and Dave also spoke at this Disneyana convention I 
    attended in Anaheim back in July. They had been invited to the National 
    Fantasy Fan Club's annual convention to give a talk on the various
    sights and sounds a visitor might have encountered during Disneyland's
    early days. The two of them puts on a delightful little show, playing
    soundtracks to long-gone Disneyland attractions that they had unearthed
    from the company archives. The highlights included the spiel a visitor
    might have heard over the loudspeakers as they waited in the queue area
    for that old Frontierland favorite, the " Mine Train Through Nature's
    Wonderland " as well as the " 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea " walk-through
    exhibit in Tomorrowland. The sounds were matched to slides of the
    various attractions that really gave you a feel for what the park was like
    in its early days.
    
    	Anywho, at the close of their old Disneyland program, Dave and 
    Bruce gave the audience a peek of Disneyland's future. Unbeknownst to
    their bosses back at Imagineering, they'd snuck some the slides of the
    preliminary design work on the new Tomorrowland out of their Glendale
    offices for us to take a look at. After swearing the audience to
    silence ( " You never saw these, these weren't here, these never left
    the design shop " ) we were allowed a quick peek at the rough pencil
    sketches and finished production paintings that will be used to draw
    up the construction blueprints for the new Tomorrowland. These slides
    made a vivid impression on everyone who saw them.
    
    	INITIAL IMPRESSION : If the Disney Company follows through with 
    the preliminary designs ( IE : If Uncle Mike is willing to cough up 
    the cash for a massive make-over ), the new Tomorrowland will be really
    very snazzy. The hype that Disney's PR people have been spewing about the
    proposed rehab -- " an inter-galactic airport " -- is on the money. But 
    don't let that somewhat hokey description throw you. The design behind
    the new Tomorrowland -- indeed the whole concept behind the rehab --
    really has a lot of wit to it.
    
    	How to describe it ? Well, have you been to Disneyland's version of 
    " Star Tours ? " If so, remember how the pre-show area casually mixes the
    mundane ( IE : The flight announcements and overhead monitors you find 
    in any large metropolitan airport ) along with the really bizarre ( IE
    : the fish-eyed air traffic controllors looking down from above, the 
    repair droids interacting with guests as they make their way through
    the line ) ? Well, picture this being done outside the attraction as
    well -- throughout all of Tomorrowland -- and you get some idea what
    Dave and Bruce have in mind.
    
    	Take -- for example -- the " Carousel of Progress. " The exterior
    of this building ( Right now, a bland sort of two story bass drum, covered
    with red, white and blue ) will be retrofitted with wild, other-worldly
    detailing. Based on the slide I saw ( As well as a pastel sketch that
    anyone can see if they stop by the " Disney Gallery " in New Orleans 
    Square ), the building will end up looking the bottom half of the
    mother ship from " Close Encounters of the Third Kind. " 
    
       Once its extrerior is refitted, " Carousel " will become home to 
    Plectu's Inter-Galactic Revue." The idea behind this show is that Captain 
    Plectu -- a three armed humanoid version of P.T. Barnum -- has accidently
    crash-landed his inter-stellar showboat down in Tomorrowland. Lacking 
    the credits to get his craft repaired for the moment, Plectu makes the
    best of a bad situation and offers to enter the locals.
    
    	Okay, I admit that the show sounds sorta sappy. But the gimmick
    behind the " Inter-Galactic Revue " is that the acts that Plectu offers up
    really are out-of-this-world. Expect musical groups similiar to the
    band you saw in the canteen secquence in the original " Star Wars " as
    well as smart-mouthed robots like the repair droids you encounter in
    the queue area of " Star Tours." As with all of the " Carousel " shows,
    the building will still revolve -- moving the audience from one scene 
    to the next. In this version, Plectu will explain away the movement as
    a quaint alien custom. Where he comes from, when a play has a new
    scene, " You don't change the scenery, you change the audience ! "
    ( Groan )
    
    	As he did with " Captain Eo " and " Star Tours," George Lucas will
    work closely with the Imagineers during the final development phase
    of " Plectu's Inter-Galactic Revue." He also will have a hand in the 
    creation of the " Alien Encounter " attraction, which promises to be 
    the scariest attraction ever built for a Disney theme park.
    
    	At this point, only the barest possible script for the " Alien "
    show has been mapped out. But supposedly, the show will make use of
    gimmicks that have been already used at the Disney-MGM Studio Theme 
    Park which is having live actors interacting with audio-animatronic figures.
    
    	The tenative scenario : You and several hundred other guests are 
    ushered into a theater to witness a scientific breakthrough. Live
    actors -- working on a stage loaded with weird devices -- portray
    scientists who claim to have finally figured out how to teleport matter
    through deep space. After a few simple demonstrations ( Robots are from
    one side of the stage to the other, then out into the middle of the
    auditorium ), this research team attempts something really impressive.
    They're going to try to beam their robot to a space station light years away
    from earth. The robot arrives safely at the remote space station, but --
    as the scientists attempt to beam him back -- something goes horribly 
    wrong. Instead of their harmless, a snarling, 10 foot alien
    materializes in the middle of their lab.
    
    	Right now, none of the show's writers can quite explain how the
    scientists accidently end up beaming the monster into the lab. What
    they do know is that all hell will break loose when the creature arrives.
    Expect at least one member of the research team to be graphically
    slaughtered by the monster during its first moments in the lab. The 
    scientist frantically trying to contain the creature, but then the 
    lights go off. The audience sits frightened in the dark for a moment,
    but -- when the scientists finally get the lights back on -- they're
    in for a bigger fright. As the lights come up, the alien monster is
    discovered standing in the aisle of the auditorium, about to claw
    some unsuspecting member of the audience.
    
    	The " Alien Encounter " -- like the " Indiana Jones Epic Stunt
    Spectacular " at Florida's Disney-MGM Studio Theme Park -- will feature
    some impressive stunt work as well as some outrageous special effects
    done right in front of the audience. Adhering to the usual Disney 
    standard of excellence, this show will no doubt be a top-notch, technically
    dazzling, truly thrilling show. But -- even so, I -- as a long-time Disney
    theme park fan -- have to wonder of this is the sort of attraction I'd
    like to see built at the park. Mind you, I enjoyed the films that this
    attraction will supposedly be based on -- and I'm sure Lucas and the
    Imagineers will cook up one heck of a show starring that hellish beasty.
    But I'm still not sure this sort of this belongs in a Disney park. 
    ( Well, maybe the Disney-MGM Studio Theme Park. But in Disneyland ? ) 
    
    	Given that Disneyland has traditionally noted as a park that
    provides fun for the whole family, you have to wonder why the
    Imagineers are planning on installing an attraction that promises to
    be as intense as " Alien Encounters " will be. Well, to answer that
    question, you have to understand that Disney has a lot of competition
    out west when it comes to the theme park dollar. And, seeing as they
    can't compete with Disney's reputation for excellence, its Southern
    Californian competitors -- Universal Studios, Magic Mountain, and
    Knotts Berry Farm -- make a point of stressing how they're all different
    from Disneyland. They don't just have attractions that are cute and 
    wholesome -- these parks have rides that will sacre the living #@*& out of 
    you. Now -- seeing as Disneyland relies on repeat business by Southern
    Californians for a lot of its business -- it hurts to lose even a small
    piece of the pie ( Particularly those teenagers, the most avidly sought
    after theme park customers ) to these other parks because they consider
    Disneyland too wimpy. Perhaps by installing something as deliberately
    scary as the " Alien Encounter " attraction -- a show that obviously is
    being created to pull in that fickle teenage theme park customer --
    Disney is trying to prove that it too can build attractions that
    will scare the $#&@ ou of you. ( Sigh ) I wonder Uncle Walt would make 
    of this.
    
    	Well, I'm certain he'd be fairly pleased with the other new 
    attraction to built for the new Tomorrowland, the new Circlevision
    360 show. Though the show has no officially titled, it'll be sponsored
    by Delta Airlines. Filming has already begun at scenic spots around 
    the United States.
    
    	What's the new wrinkle here ? Well, this time around, the
    Circlevision 360 theater is supposedly an orientation center for aliens
    arriving on earth as they begin their vacations in the United States. In
    the pre-show area, you'll meet a family of robotic tourists ( Similiar in
    appearances to the free floating robots Disney created for their 1979
    sci-fi film flop, " The Black Hole. " However, they'll talk like all
    tourists traditionally do -- which means they'll complain constantly ).
    Having just arrived on earth, these robots haven't decided yet where they 
    want to spend their vacation. The live human attendant advises the
    family to head into the Circlevision theater where they can see scenes of 
    dozens of vacation spots around the United States.
    
    	Now, once the audience and the robots enter the theater, here's
    where things get interesting. The Circlevision 360 film follows its
    usual course -- lovely scenery seen from every possible angle. Only
    this time around, the audio animatronic robots comment on what they
    see on the screen and -- eventually -- actually insert themselves into
    the film. I'm not quite how this will be accomplished, but I'm
    told by friends within the Disney Company that the Imagineers have 
    figured out how to do and it'll make for one pretty wild show.
    
    	Of course, to make way for these new attractions, a few old
    Tomorrowland favorites will have to bite the dust. " America Sings "
    has been shut down for several years now and " Mission to Mars " is
    on its last legs. Beyond this -- Well, " Captain EO " might also
    get its plug pulled. ( Among the attractions announced as part of 
    the Disney Decade was a new 3D film for Tomorrowland, to be produced 
    in association with -- suprise, suprise ! -- George Lucas. What this
    film will be or who it'll star, no one's saying just yet. Could it be 
    a brand new " Captain EO " adventure, starring Diana Ross look-a-like, 
    Michael Jackson ? Maybe. We should hear something about this new film 
    going into production sometime in early 1991. )
    
    	Of course, there are several existing Tomorrowland attractions that
    are expected to survive this part of the park's makeover with little more
    than cosmetic changes. Space Mountain and Star Tours will stay just as 
    they are. The only changes that will possibly be made to these crowd
    pleasing attractions is that the exteriors of their ride buildings may be 
    retro-fitted with some design elements so that they fit in smoothly
    with the new decor. Ditto with the Star Jets and the People Movers
    ( Though I hear that the People Mover track might be moved around a bit
    so that it wanders through the newer ride buildings as it makes its 
    trip around Tomorrowland ) and -- though the Imagineers aren't really
    thrilled with the Autopia, the Skyway and the Submarine ride, these
    attractions are still too popular with the public to consider shutting
    them down. Perhaps they'll get a new coat of paint so that they at
    least blend in with Tomorrowland's new color scheme.
    
    	Now, add a second story to many of the existing Tomorrowland
    buildings, connect them by constructing a network of open metal catwalks,
    then throw in some weird other-worldly plants to accent the futuristic decor
    ( The slides showed crystaline flowers and trees that would glow
    brightly with wild colors after the sun went down in this part of the park.
    Really a lovely idea, don't you think ? ), update the shops, restaurants
    and costumes that cast members will wear when they people the new
    Tomorrowland -- and you'll have to agree that this new Tomorrowland sounds
    like a pretty incredible place to visit.
    
    	So when will the new Tomorrowland get here ? Well, after warning 
    their audience that there was still a lot of work to be done on the
    rethink of this part of the park and that any of the proposed new
    attractions could be changed drastically before the rehab plans are
    finalized in January 1991, Gordon and Mumford said that construction could
    begin on the new Tomorrowland as early as September of 1991.They also
    said that the Disney Company will try to keep most of Tomorrowland open
    while the rehab work is done. ( The reason behind this decision was all
    the heat the company took in the early '80s when they completely shut down 
    Fantasyland during its rehab. Wanting to avoid all the nasty comments
    they got from angry parents whose kids could get to their favorite
    attractions, they'll do the Tomorrowland rehab one piece at a time. )
    Because of this piece-meal approaach, it'll take Disney quite a while
    to completely redo Tomorrowland. Mumford and Gordon hoped that the 
    work would be completed in time for Disneyland's 40th birthday
    celebration.
    
    	That's all I can remember from Bruce and Dave's talk to the N.F.F.C 
    in July. I got some other info on the rehab from friends within the 
    company that I've found to be fairly relaible. But please keep in mind
    that these plans might change, particularly if Mr. Eisner decides that
    he wants something different for Disneyland's Tomorrowland.
    
    	Oh wait ! I forgot one of the nicer little details that Mumford and
    Gordon want to include as part of the Tomorrowland plan. As part of
    their inter-galactic airport, Bruce and Dave want to bring back the TWA
    " Rocket to the Moon " that used to tower over Disneyland back in 1955.
    That would be pretty wild, wouldn't it ?
    
    	Next time, I'll spill the beans on what I've heard about the 
    proposed " Hollywoodland " addition to the park.
    
    	Til then, you folks have a nice mouseka-day, okay ?
    
                             Robespierre
    
    
    anyone planning to visit Disneyland over the next few years should note
    that construction will result in some of their the old Tomorrowland w
    visitors should note that 
    doesn't it ?
          
    screen
    Black 
    	  

    Is the timetable for this Tomorrowland refurbishing the same for WDW's
    Magic Kingdom as it is for Disneyland?
    
    Mike

    Radio broadcast on L.A station KFWB 98 "BIG uproar over the closing of
    Uncle Abe, details to follow". 8/24 broadcast date.
    
    Well, I had to go to work, missed the details, sorry. Anybody else hear
    it?
    
    Dave

    RE: .81

    WHEW!

    Thanks for that reply!  Must have taken you an hour to type it in!  ;-)

    My over-all impression?  Well, Walt would have said "I don't think I
    like that" (Disney code for "scrap the project...you're *way* off
    base here").  Unfortunately, due to the changes in today's
    world/people/etc. Disneyland/WDW has no choice but to go in this
    direction; yet it is categorically, fundamentally, totally WRONG and
    against all precepts upon which Disneyland was originally built, IMHO.

    Hollywoodland is another mistake.  In fact, I think I'll try to get in
    several Disneyland visits in the next 3 years before this atrocity
    begins; the park will never be the same/recover!  <sigh> yet another
    American institution ruined.

    Can you tell I *hate* their plans?



    Yeeecchhhkkk,
    David.

    re : .82
    
    	As I understand it, the rehab work on Walt Disney World's Tomorrowland
    will begin about a year after work starts in Anaheim. So that means
    construction could get underway as early as September 1993. The work here
    will also be done in a piece-meal fashion -- keeping some parts of 
    Tomorrowland open while other sections under go renovation. Ideally,
    all work here will be completed by October 1996 -- which means the
    Magic Kingdom will have a brand new Tomorrowland just in time for Walt
    Disney World's 25th anniversary celebration.
    
    	On an interesting side-note, the Imagineers have their work cut out
    for them with WDW's Tomorrowland rehab. You see, a lot of the good 
    " inter-galactic landing spot " ideas have been already been used for
    attractions at EPCOT Center and the Studio Theme Park. For example,
    " Star Tours." It's the only thrill ride Disney-MGM's got right now. 
    Consequently, this attraction will not be part of the new Tomorrowland
    line-up -- even though this ride's the heart and soul ( Hell, let's be 
    blunt here -- the inspiration for ) of Disneyland's Tomorrowland rethink. 
    And then there's the proposed Future World rehab at EPCOT ( Slated to
    start in 1992, this work will continue throughout the '90s -- adding
    truly futuristic attractions and technologies to some of the more dated
    pavilions in this part of the Florida park. The Future World rehab will
    conclude with the construction of the long planned " Space " pavilion, 
    which will allow Disney guests to see what space travel might be like
    in the next century. NASA's helping with the design and ride concepts
    for this baby. Hope they're not working with the same team who hobbled
    the Hubble ). All that work there is going to eat up a lot of good
    futuristic ideas.
    
    	So what's going to be left for the new Tomorrowland's inter-galactic 
    airport ? Well, most likely, you'll see " Captain EO " pulled out of
    EPCOT's " Journey into Imagination " and resurrected here. ( Not to 
    worry, 3D fans. Disney and George Lucas are already talking about a 
    new 3D production. Could it be another episode in the adventures of 
    " Captain Eo " or a brand new film with a whole new set of characters ?
    We'll know soon enough. Production is supposed to begin sometime early
    next year. ) And I know " Plectu's Galactic Musical Revue " and " Alien
    Encounter " are supposed to be built here. ( Though, IMHO. " Alien 
    Encounters " really belongs over at Disney-MGM ) Beyond that,
    construction is really too far off and it's too early in the planning
    stages to speak too definitively about what might or might not be in
    WDW's version of the new Tomorrowland.
    
    	One final note. At this Disneyana convention I attended in Anaheim
    in July, I did hear word that -- back in 1985, when " Star Tours " was
    being created -- at least two different scenarios were written for the
    ride. George Lucas ultimately selected the " droid-overshoots-Endor,
    ends-up-racing-through-the-trenches " story-line for production, but 
    those other scripts are still on file. Supposedly, Disney recently
    pulled these other scripts out of the files and asked Lucas which of
    these he'd like to have ILM's SFX jockeys at produce next. ( That's the
    beauty of a simulator-based attraction. When you want to overhaul a
    ride, you don't have to tear down a building to do it. You just change 
    your soft-ware. ) 
    
    	Could it be that another version of the " Star Tours " simulator 
    attraction ride will make its debut as part of WDW's Tomorrowland ?
    Anything's possible. If I hear anything more about construction or 
    design plans for this part of Florida's Magic Kingdom, I'll be sure
    to pass them along.
    
    				Robespierre
    	 

    
    re: .84
    
    	Now, don't be so quick to condemn. Yes, some of the ideas under
    consideration for construction during Disneyland's Tomorrowland rehab
    are a bit outrageous. But remember that this part of the park has 
    always had a problem keeping up with the future. Consequently, Tomorrowland
    always starts looking dated about a year after it's been rehabbed. So,
    changing Tomorrowland over to an inter-galactic space port is a pretty
    bright way of getting out of having to rebuild this section of the park
    all the time, don't you think ?
    
    	And remember the team they've got the job here ? George Lucas --
    plus Tony Baxter, Bruce Gordon and Dave Mumford. These guys are all
    native southern Californians and they really love the park. As kids,
    they spent every day they could visiting Disneyland. Working for
    Imagineering -- designing rides and attractions for the parks -- is
    a dream job for these people. They'd never deliberately put anything in
    the park that would sully the look or feel of the place.
    
    	So don't start complaining about how terrible the new Tomorrowland will
    be or how the Hollywoodland addition will be an " attrocity." (If you're
    gonna comment negatively on that design, could you at least wait 'til you 
    read the report I post on the plan. I should be loading that info in the
    next day or so. ) If you've been on the " Star Tours " attraction or 
    walked along Hollywood Boulevard at the Disney-MGM Studio Theme Park, 
    you know these guys are capable of creating exciting attractions and
    eye pleasing areas that are new but still within the Disney tradition of
    excellence. 
    
    	So lighten up, pal. Get yourself some Dole Whip and chill, okay ?
    Why don't you reserve judgement on how bad the new Tomorrowland will be
    until 1995 or so they finish building the thing. Then you can visit the
    place, ride all the rides, take in the new decor, and then come back 
    here and give us all a detailed report why it stinks.
    
       	( Hmmnn .. Might I have come on a little strong with this reply ?
    Shouldn't I -- as a new noter in these parts -- been a wee bit more polite
    when chastising my fellow Disney dweeb ? Would it have been better if I
    had been a " kinder, gentler " mouskateer ? ..... NAAAAAAAAAAAAH ! )		
    
    			Diplomacy was never my strong suit.
    
    			            regards,
    
  				  Robespierre 
    
    

    
    	Well, you can disregard everything you've heard or read about
    Kermit and crew tossing Honest Abe out of the Main Street Opera House.
    Friday afternoon, the folks at Disneyland announced officially that 
    " Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln " would not be closing.
    
    	What happened ? The same thing that happened back in 1973, when
    they temporarily replaced " Great Moments " with " The Walt Disney
    Story. " As soon as the story leaked to the media, the letters and 
    phones calls started pouring in. ( In retrospect, it was probably not
    Disney's brightest move to try something like this in a year when
    people's patriotic feelings are running particularly high. Given all the
    noise folks made about flag burning, they were almost sure to get
    steamed when it was suggested that our 16th president be replaced by a
    singing frog. ) I'm told that the Californian TV stations really played
    this item up and that some really inflammatory stories ran in the local
    papers. Would any of our LA area noters have any info on what the
    regional press had to say about all this ? I'd love to heard about what
    went on from people who actually saw the TV news stories or read the
    articles.
    
    	---------------------------------------------------------------
    
    	Okay, Disney dweebs. This means that Mr. Lincoln is safe for
    another couple of years. ( Of course -- if you really want to insure
    this attraction is around for ages to come -- make a point of visiting
    it the next time you go to Disneyland. It's fine for you folks to get
    all upset about Eisner and his bunch having the balls to even suggest
    shutting this attraction down, but -- face facts -- if more of you
    people had actually gone to the Main Street Opera House and seen the
    show over the past few years, the big cheeses at Mouse Central would
    never have dreamed of pulling Abe's plug. There's a simple way to keep
    these older Disneyland attractions alive. All you have do is visit them
    the next time you go to the Anaheim park ... Oh, and a word to the wise.
    If you folks want those singing birds make it through the 90's, you'd
    better start visiting " The Enchanted Tiki Room " again. Otherwise,
    every one of our robotic feathered friends is going to end up on the 
    endangered species list. ) But where does this leave us Muppet fans ?
    With no theater to show the film in, will " Kermit the Frog presents
    Muppetvision in 3D " still open in Anaheim in 1991 ?
    
    	Right now, no one knows for sure. Though construction is still 
    on schedule for the Muppet's 3D theater in Orlando ( The film should
    start showing at the studio theme park sometime after the first of the
    year ), the Imagineers have no back-up candidates for a Muppet 3D
    theater in Anaheim. You see -- as I explain in an earlier note -- the
    Muppet 3D movie was only supposed to play in Disneyland's Main Street 
    Opera House for two years or so. Then -- once their own theater had been 
    built in Mickey's Starland -- the 3D movie would have started playing
    there and " Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln " would have started running
    again in the Main Street Opera House. But now all those plans have gone
    down the drain because of the big brew-ha-ha over the proposded Lincoln
    shut-down.
    
    	So how big a monkey-wrench does this throw in the company's plans
    for Disneyland ? Well, you have to understand that 1991 was going to be
    the year that the Muppets officially arrived Disneyland. Kermit and
    crew were supposed to start making appearances in the park starting in
    January and the " Muppet All-Star Caravan " -- the parade that now rolls
    daily down Hollywood Boulevard at the studio theme park -- was also
    scheduled to begin rolling through January around that same time.
    
    	But the biggest hype -- In fact, it was supposed to have served as
    the center of Disneyland's big media push for 1991 -- was the 3D Muppet
    movie. ( Don't get me wrong. The " Young Indiana Jones Epic Stunt 
    Spectacular " -- which is now being built behind Big Thunder Ranch and
    which is supposed to open to the public sometime around June of next
    year -- also would have recieved its share of the hype. But you
    wouldn't have started hearing about that 'til late spring or so. The
    early advertising campaigns were going to totally built upon " The Muppets
    are now at Disneyland. Be sure to see their snazzy new 3D movie. ) As I
    understand it, there was supposed to this massive Hollywood-style premiere
    for the film -- as it opened simultaneously in Anaheim and Orlando.
    Lots of hoopla, lots of stars, the parks were supposed to stay open 
    'round the clock to accomodate the crowds anxious to get in to see the
    new show. Now I guess the planned bi-coastal premiere is now on hold.
    
       " Gee, that's too bad, " I hear you say. " Isn't there another way
    for the 3D Muppet movie could start playing in Anaheim the same time it
    debuts in Orlando ? " Well .. I guess it's possible. Maybe those crafty
    Imagineers could find someplace else on the property to build a temporary
    theater. After all, these guys have done rush jobs before. Disneyland's
    Videopolis was designed, built and open to the public in just over three
    months back in 1985. Walt Disney World's Mickey's Birthdayland took just
    over 100 days to put together in 1988. So these folks have lots of
    experience at delivering improbable things at impossible deadlines.
    
    	But where would this temporary Muppet theater go ? Well, we're just
    talking speculatively here, but -- I'd bet that it will probably end up
    being built somewhere near where the permanent Muppet 3D theater was
    supposed to go, which was somewhere around the Videopolis stage area. 
    After all, this is where Mickey's Starland is supposed to be built.
    Maybe they can slap up one of those steel tent-style structures that 
    the Imagineers used to house the " Mickey's Birthday Party " show in
    Orlando. That might be enough to keep things going 'til the Muppets'
    real theater gets built.
    
    	I guess we'll have to wait 'til Mr. Eisner decides what he's going
    to do with the Muppets. Now that the public won't let him move them
    into the Opera House, he might just say " Well, to hell with you guys.
    The 3D Muppet movie won't debut in Anaheim 'til 1993 now ! " After all.
    Stranger things have happen -- particularly with this much money is
    involved.
    
    	So, in closing, I guess I'm happy to hear that Abe still has a home
    on Mian Street but saddened at the news that the Muppets' 3D debut in
    Anaheim might be delayed because of this. From what I've heard about this
    movie, it's going to really knock our soxes off. ( I'm told that " Kermit
    the Frog presents Muppetvision in 3D " will be the first Disney theme park
    attraction to mix their 3D and audio animatronic technologies. Supposedly,
    the pre-show area will feature audio-animatronic versions of Doctor Bunsen
    Honeydew and his frantic assistant, Beaker. I've also heard that those two
    grouchy old hecklers -- Statler and Waldorf -- will also recreated
    robotically, and will caustically comment on what's going on in the movie
    from their usual box in the mezzanine. Best of all, to further enhance the
    3D effect, the screen is supposed to split open at several points in the
    film and audio animatronic version of our favorite Muppets are supposed to
    dangle over our heads. Sounds snazzy, yes ? ) I really had hoped to get to
    see this next summer when I made my annual trek to Anaheim. But, now ...
    Well, maybe I'll go to Orlando instead.
    
    	I'll be posting more Disney news -- including those controversial
    Hollywoodland additions plans -- early next next week. 
    
    				'til then,
    				 regards,
    
    		          	Robespierre
          

    This item appeared in The Boston Globe - Saturday, August 25, 1990.
    It was in the Names and Faces section which usually contains the latest
    gossip/info about public figures.
    
    			Honesty wins out
        Who says Americans don't learn the lessons of history?
    	Disneyland workers and visitors in Anaheim, Calif., let
    	out a howl of protest when the Disney Corp. suggested
    	that "Honest Abe" be replaced by The Muppets.  So Kermit,
    	Miss Piggy, Big Bird and the other Muppets will be a
    	future attraction at the park, but not at the expense of
    	The Great Emancipator, which had faced the degradation
    	of gathering dust in a warehouse.  The animated Lincoln,
    	which has been housed in a 500-seat theater on Disneyland's
    	Main Street for 25 years, will continue to share excerpts
    	from his great speeches 51 times a day, seven days a week,
    	while the Disney organization searches for an alternative
    	site for Jim Henson's Muppets.

    I live in So.Calif,(Simi Valley), been watching the news every night since the
    middle east crisis. Didn't see anything on the local TV about Abe. 
    There was something on the local radio, but I missed it.
    
    Dave
    
    

    RE: .81, .85 and .86

    $ SET MODE/FLAME

    > Why don't you reserve judgment on how bad the new Tomorrowland will be
    > until 1995 or so they finish building the thing.

    Obviously you are not an Engineer.  After something is finished it is
    TOO LATE to do anything about it!  You fix things during architecture
    and design phases of a project.  There is nothing more dangerous in
    this world than establishing a precedent, especially on a multi-year
    project of this magnitude.

    > So lighten up, pal. Get yourself some Dole Whip and chill, okay ?

    What a quaint statement of self-righteousness.  Thanks so much for
    valuing my differences.  I was under the impression that we were in
    this conference to discuss things, not dictate how others should feel
    about issues related to Disney, or lambaste them for disagreeing with
    the party line.  (And not even a slap on the wrist from the Moderators
    for that personal attack; thanks.)     X-{

    $ SET MODE/SINCERE/NOFLAME


    Let me see if I can support my stance now, and concede those points to
    you with which I agree.

    First, this is DISNEYland not LUCASland.  Granted, I *like* Star Tours,
    but have a hard time justifying its existence in Walt's park.  Now it
    sounds like the re-dress of Tomorrowland is basically "StarWarsland"
    and I do not like that one little bit!  Plectu's Inter-Galactic Review
    is the right idea, but I fear it will be too much Lucas, too little anyone
    else's input/ideas/vision.

    Second, if you and the Imagineers had bothered to do a little research
    you would no doubt have stumbled across this little gem, circa 1955, from
    Walt himself:

    "...Tomorrow can be a wonderful age.  Our scientists today are opening
    the doors of the Space Age to achievements which will benefit our
    children and generations to come.  In Tomorrowland, we've arranged a
    preview of some of the wonderful developments the future holds in
    store.  In Tomorrowland, you will actually experience what many of
    America's foremost men of science and industry predict for the world of
    tomorrow.  These Tomorrowland attractions, and many others, have been
    designed to give you an opportunity to participate in adventures which
    are a living blueprint of our future..."

    (I cannot find my text of the dedication plaque of Tomorrowland, but
    the ideas/words are similar.)

    Having read this, show me in the current plans where the "vision of
    tomorrow" and "living blueprint of our future" is and I will buy you
    lunch!  What I see is George Lucas' fantasized vision of his Star Wars
    universe, but somewhat Disneyized.  I do not consider George Lucas or
    the current cadre of Imagineers to be "men of science and industry" and
    their creations -- while amusing and excellent in implementation -- are
    not in keeping with the Tomorrowland theme.  Playing tourist and going
    to Mars fits.  Hopping on a futuristic train and taking a ride over to
    the Disneyland Hotel works.  The Carousel of Progress (when it was
    there) takes you from the past into the perceived future so that is (was)
    acceptable as well.  But *Alien Encounters*?

    > Expect at least one member of the research team to be graphically
    > slaughtered by the monster during its first moments in the lab. The 
    > scientist frantically trying to contain the creature, but then the 
    > lights go off. The audience sits frightened in the dark for a moment,
    > but -- when the scientists finally get the lights back on -- they're
    > in for a bigger fright. As the lights come up, the alien monster is
    > discovered standing in the aisle of the auditorium, about to claw
    > some unsuspecting member of the audience.

    THIS!?  AT THE HAPPIEST PLACE ON EARTH!?   I feel safe in saying that
    Walt would have a stroke if he were alive to see the design for an
    attraction in which guests are attacked and cast members are murdered!
    I know this is the tentative first pass on the design, but if this is
    their rough idea they are all wet, IMHO.

    Here is a little known tidbit for you...the Mission to Mars attraction
    was originally Mission to the Moon and was designed jointly by *Werner
    von Braun* and the Disney Imagineers!  After we went to the Moon, it
    was re-vamped into Mission to Mars.  Regardless, it, in its day, was a
    reasonable simulation of what a future tourist space flight might be
    like.  (Today, Star Tours is its heir-apparent with a more hi-tech and
    entertaining slant on this idea.)  Why mention all this?  Well...

    > And then there's the proposed Future World rehab at EPCOT ( Slated to
    > start in 1992, ... adding truly futuristic attractions and technologies
    > to some of the more dated pavilions in this part of the Florida park...
    > the construction of the long planned " Space " pavilion, which will
    > allow Disney guests to see what space travel might be like in the next
    > century. NASA's helping with the design and ride concepts...

    NOW THAT IS MORE LIKE TOMORROWLAND!  So what gives?  Why not put those
    efforts into Tomorrowland and do something else for EPCOT?  Shoot, if
    they are that void of ideas for Tomorrowland, call me; I have a couple!

    > If you've been on the " Star Tours " attraction or 
    > walked along Hollywood Boulevard at the Disney-MGM Studio Theme Park, 
    > you know these guys are capable of creating exciting attractions and
    > eye pleasing areas that are new but still within the Disney tradition of
    > excellence.

    Re-read my reply.  I never said they would do a poor job, that it would
    not be aesthetically pleasing, boring, or not generally excellent.  I
    *did* say that I thought they were off the mark and that the idea should
    be scrapped/re-worked because, as I have attempted to demonstrate here,
    they are ruining Tomorrowland's theme.

    The overarching problem I see is that Gordon and Mumford have made some
    (questionable) changes in the past which resulted in higher profits,
    better attraction attendance, and several other "goodness by Disney
    standards" metrics.  Now they effectively have carte blanche on the new
    Tomorrowland; I think they are heading in the wrong direction and need
    to be stopped IMMEDIATELY before it is too late.  I, however, am in the
    minority and their plan will no doubt be rubber-stamped into production
    because "it's what the public wants (?)" and "it's a good business
    move".


    What about Hollywoodland?  I saw some stuff on that joke about 6 months
    ago and I can tell you I am underwhelmed.  My take on this is the
    Disney folks are investing millions in WDW/MGM Studios and want to
    clone their efforts in California to ensure higher profitability and
    return on investment.  The catch is that Disneyland is only one park,
    so where do you put something of the ilk of The Great Movie Ride?
    Simple...hack the park to provide a new land.  Yeeecckkk.  This is
    DISNEYland, not UNIVERSAL STUDIOSland.  I say we do not need
    Hollywoodland; there is no value added.  If they want to install Baby
    Herman's Run-away Buggy Ride (or whatever the name is), then put it in
    Fantasyland along with Dumbo, Peter Pan, and the other Disney-inspired,
    fantasy cartoon characters.  If you want The Great Movie Ride, go to WDW
    in Florida.  Conversely, if you want The Matterhorn Bobsleds come to
    California (instead of copying it in EPCOT at their new Switzerland
    addition...but I digress).


    Enough ranting.  This is my take on Tomorrowland and all are welcome to
    agree, disagree, or kibitz in other replies.  Thanks for listening.


    David.

    
    I basically agree with the points made in -1.  For my money, "Voyage
    Through Inner Space" was a much more appropriate (and dare I say,
    better) ride than "Star Tours".  Unfortunately, I think the prevailing
    attitude is that a fantasized tour through space with some funny droids
    will draw more people than a realistic simulation of an inter-planetary
    journey.  Pity.  Why don't they just turn the park into one huge
    Nintendo game?
    
    - snopes
    

    
    RE : .90 & .91
    
    	Jeese, are you folks always this resistant to change ? Given the
    rabid replies I've recieved regarding the Tomorrowland rehab ( As
    well as the numerous negative notes I came across while reading the
    " Disney Decade " file ), you'd think that the Imagineers were planning
    on turning the parks into toxic waste dumps.
    	I mean, come on, folks. Can we lighten this discussion up a bit ? 
    After all, we're talking about " The happiest place on earth, " aren't
    we ? There's no need to sit at our terminals and sling nasty-grams at
    one another -- just because the park's going to change.
    	And -- let's face facts, folks -- Disneyland *IS* going to change.
    Tomorrowland's just the start. By 1999, all of Hollywoodland's attractions
    will be up and open for business. And -- sometime after the turn of the
    century -- Adventureland will recieve a complete makeover.
    	But it's not like this hasn't happened before. ( I guess that's 
    what I find so troubling about your response, Dave. You go on and on 
    about " Disney's dream, " as if the park was this perfect, pristene thing
    when it opened in 1955. Don't you realize that -- right from the start
    -- Walt changed stuff in the park. He didn't view Disneyland as this
    permanent thing that would have to stay the same forever. In fact, in a
    rather famous interview, Walt was pretty eloquent about his attitude 
    toward the park :
    
    	" The way I see it, Disneyland will never be finished. It's
    something we can keep developing and adding to. A motion picture
    is different. Once it's wrapped up and sent out for processing,
    we're through with it. If there are things that could be improved, 
    we can't do them anymore. I've always wanted to work on something
    alive, something that keeps growing. We've got that in Disneyland. "
    
    	Walt felt that it was important -- in fact, crucial -- that the
    parks change and grow with the times, that guests always find some
    new delight awaiting them the next time they visited Disneyland. That's
    why the park is a constant state of renewal during the ten years that
    Walt personally rode herd on what was going on in Disneyland. So, given
    your personal prejudice toward changes in the park, I guess you and 
    Uncle Walt wouldn't have gotten along. Sorry about that, Dave. )
    	Anywho, let's get back to discussing the new Tomorrowland plans.
    Some folks have a problem with the notion that the original theme for
    this area -- " a living blueprint for our future " -- is being trashed 
    in favor of this inter-galactic spaceport idea. Well, if truth be told,
    even Uncle Walt had trouble coming up with attractions that fit this
    part of the park.
    	Do any of you recall Tomorrowland's original attractions ? Sad to
    say, there was very little future to be found here when Disneyland
    first opened. Oh yeah, there was the " Rocket to the Moon " and
    " Space Station X-1 " attractions. But -- beyond that -- the pickings
    were pretty slim.
    
    *********************************************************************
    
    	For the record, the other Tomorrowland attractions that were open
    to the public during Disneyland's first year of operation included :
    
    	1) The Autopia ( Given that folks already driven on the highway
    to get to Anaheim, they couldn't find much that was very futuristic
    about this mini-motor-car attraction. )
    	2) Circarama Theater ( Mind you, the technology used to make this
    film was fairly advanced, but can a scenic travelogue of the western
    United States really be called futuristic ? )
    	3) The World Beneath Us. ( Or, as Disneyana fans used to call it,
    " The Hall of Minerals. " Can fossils really be considered
    futuristic ? )
    	4) The " 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea " walk-through exhibit.
    ( Featuring a lot of the props and original sets from the Academy award
    winning film, this attraction would have been a lot of fun to visit.
    But futuristic ? Come on ! )
    	5) The Phantom Boats ( Prehistoric cousins to WDW's water sprites.
    Though they had snazzy little fins on their sterns -- I think Batman
    owns a boat that looks this -- this ride was hardly futuristic. )
    	6) Skyway to Fantasyland ( Okay, this aerial tramway did give 
    visitors a great view of the park -- and the technology used to run
    the " Skyway " had never been used in the United States before -- but,
    even back in 1956, this is hardly what you'd call futuristic. )
    	7) The Flight Circle ( A demonstration area for flying model
    aircraft. Nope, no future here. )
    	8) Monstano's Hall of Chemistry ( Naaah. It's not here either.)
    	9) Kaiser's Hall of Aluminum Fame ( Let's get serious, shall we ? )
    	10) The Dutch Boy Paint Color Gallery ( There was definitely no
    future here, but -- if those of us who visited here had been forward
    thinking individuals -- we would have purchased scads of the Disney
    animation cels that were on sale here. There were piles of cels here
    from the classic Disney films -- " Peter Pan, " " Alice in Wonder-
    land, " Cinderella, " etc. -- all for $ 1.50 a piece. Who knows what
    that stuff would be worth today ? * Sigh * Where's Doc Brown and his
    Delorean when you really need him ? )
    	11) Astro-Jets ( Futuristic ? You could find this ride in most
    traveling carnivals back in the 1950s. What's so futuristic about
    spinning around in a circle in a pretend rocket ship ? )
    	12) The House of the Future ( Okay, even I have to admit that
    this was futuristic. So how come it got built next to Sleeping Beauty's
    castle ? )
    	13) Crane's Bathroom of Tomorrow ( Well, it sounds pretty 
    futuristic. Pretty frightening too. Given my druthers, I'd rather
    not mess with an experimental toilet. )
    	14) American Dairy Association Milk Bar ( Refreshing, I'm sure.
    But futuristic ? Well .. Maybe the cows were supposed to be from 
    Mars ? )
    
    ******************************************************************** 
    
    
    	Okay, the point I'm trying to make here is that -- right from the 
    start -- Disney had trouble finding futuristic things to put in 
    Tomorrowland. Sure, as the 50's came to a close, he added the Viewliner
    ( A sleek mini-train, sort of an early fore-runner of the Monorail,
    only the Viewliner ran on two rails. Could it really have been
    considered futuristic ? Well .. No, not really .. But I bet it was fun to
    ride  ! ), the Matterhorn Bobsleds ( Futuristic ?! This is a roller 
    coaster with a concrete slipcover. Fun, yes -- but truly a part of
    " living blueprint of tomorrow " ? Get real ! ), and the " Voyage 
    Through Liquid Space " attraction ( Okay, atomic subs were considered
    pretty state-of-the-art back then. But the mermaids and sea serpents
    that you sight along your undersea journey make this more of a fantasy
    voyage than a trip to tomorrow, don't you think ? Little wonder that 
    -- when they were recreating this attraction in Orlando -- the
    Imagineers decided to place the submarine ride in Fantasyland. Which is
    where it really belongs, don't you think ? )
    	 Finally, in 1959, Disney did added an attraction to Tomorrowland
    that could be truly considered futuristic -- the Alweg Monorail. But it
    had taken the Disney team nearly four years to find this sleek single
    rail train and install it in the park. Meanwhile, outside in the real
    world, the space race was underway. All the scientific advancements
    that were being made out there made the attractions in Disney's
    Tomorrowland look geriatric in comparison.
    	Realizing that they couldn't quite pull off the " living blueprint
    of our future " idea, Disney and his team began installing attractions
    in Tomorrowland that had little real education value but that Disneyland
    guests would just enjoy riding on or through. They tacked the " Grand
    Canyon " diorama on to the Tomorrowland stretch of the Disneyland 
    railroad and set up the bumper-car-like " Flying Saucer " attraction
    beside the " Rocket to the Moon " ride. This was as innovative and
    up-to-date as Tomorrowland got 'til its first rehab back in 1967.
    	But how futuristic was Tomorrowland after its $ 17,000,000
    makeover ? Let's be blunt, guys --- not really very futuristic at all.
    Oh yeah, the exterior decor had been jazzed up and the look and feel 
    of this side of the park had been made consistant for the first time
    since Disneyland opened. But let's review the attractions that you'd
    find in the " new " Tomorrowland. They were :
    
    	1) The Matterhorn. No change here. Same old glorified roller
    coaster.
    	2) The Monorail. New generation of vehicles, but same old route.
    	3) Rocket Jets. Let's be truthful. These are the Astro Jets all
    over again, only redesigned and operating out of a new, higher
    location.
    	4) Voyage through Inner Space. Same subs, same show. No change here
    at all.
    	5) Autopia. Ditto.
    	6) Skyway to Fantasyland. Ditto ditto.
    	7) Circlerama. Okay, they put together a new movie and spruced up
    the theater. There's great scenery -- but no future to be found here.
    	8) Mission to the Moon. ( Later " Mission to Mars. " ) Okay, the
    audio-animatronic figures in the pre-show area gave this old-time
    Disneyland attraction a new kick. But the real show was still a fairly
    lame recreation of a trip into outer space. Futuristic, yes -- but 
    " Mission to the Moon "  was probably considered a pretty tame
    attraction even back in 1955. ( The vibrating seats were a nice touch
    though. )  
    	
 	So, after tallying up all of the old attractions in the " new "
    Tomorrowland, where's all that bold futuristic stuff that's finally
    going make this place a " living blueprint of our future ? "  Well, 
    there's the Peoplemover -- a state-of-the-art transportation system
    that took people on a leisurely overhead tour of the new Tomorrowland.
    ( To date, the only places outside of Anaheim this " revolutionary means
    of transportation " has ever been built are the Tomorrowlands in Walt
    Disney World and Tokyo Disneyland as well as the Dallas airport. Some
    revolution ! ) Then there's " Adventures through Inner Space " --
    where guests were sent into through a giant microscope and miniaturized
    to the size of atoms. ( Scientific ? Yeah. Informative ? Yeah ?
    Entertaining ? Certainly ! But futuristic ?  Well ... I don't know
    about that, but I do know that " Adventures " -- next to the " Haunted
    Mansion " -- was the most popular make-out ride in the park. Those
    two passenger vehicles, rolling on through the dark. I bet that giant
    eye looking down through the microscope saw a lot of interesting
    things. Wooo ! ) 
    	Finally, there was the " Carousel of Progress. " Originally
    designed for Edison Square, a proposed addition to Main Street USA 
    that never made it off the drawing board, this audio-animatronic
    attraction -- which detailed the history of electricity -- debuted at
    the 1964 New York World's Fair. Due to the show's success there, Disney
    decided to bring the " Carousel " back to Anaheim for installation 
    in Disneyland.
    	Was the show futuristic ? Well, not in its first three acts,
    no. But -- in its final scene -- the audio-animatronic host and 
    his family did give us a peek at " The Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow "
    we could expect in the not-so-distant future. That future was a close
    look at the model of EPCOT, the experimental prototype community of
    tomorrow Disney's hoped to build on all that property his company 
    purchased in Florida. ( But how the Disney Company ended up botching
    EPCOT is a story for another time. )
    	But that was it for the futuristic elements in the new Tomrrowland.
    Sure, the technology used to move the audience from scene to scene in
    the " Carousel of Progress " or the omni-mover vehicles used in the
    " Adventures through Inner Space " or the Peoplemover could be
    considered futuristic, but they were just vehicles. That " living
    blueprint of our future " had once again slipped through Disney's
    hands.
      	So it went into the 1970s. The " Carousel of Progress " got
    moved to Florida, so its theater-go-round building sat empty for a
    while, before becoming home to the not-very-futuristic " America
    Sings. " In 1977, " Space Mountain " joined the Tomorrowland line-up.
    But -- though it pretended to be a recreation of the sensation of 
    space flight -- it was really just a glorified roller coaster. 
    	The early 1980s saw the installation of a lot of " quick fix "
    attractions in Tomorrowland -- stuff that was inexpensive to add to
    this part of the park, but would still bring in new customers. These
    included the new Circlevison 360 film, " American Journeys." The
    Magic Eye Theater was built so that Disneyland could start showing 
    the 3D film the company had created for its " Journey into
    Imagination " pavilion for EPCOT Center, " Magic Journeys." Later, 
    " Magic Journeys " was replaced by " Captain EO." The popularity of
    " EO " paved the way for " Star Tours, " which led to the Tomorrowland
    revamp now under consideration ...
    	So let's look back over Tomorrowland's history, folks. Was it ever 
    really " a living blueprint for our future " ? Not really, no. There 
    alays some neat stuff to be found here, but most of the attractions had a
    tenative tie to science or the future -- at best. 
    	So, if you take that into consideration -- and realize that Walt 
    Disney himself couldn't make Tomorrowland work -- why are you folks 
    getting so steamed that they're planning on changing this " living 
    blueprint of the future " to " an inter-galatic spaceport " ?  That
    marvelous " scientific-yet-entertaining " part of the park you keep
    insisting will be swept away by the rehab didn't ever really make 
    it off the drawing board. In truth, Tomorrowland was an area of the 
    park that never quite worked. Maybe if they abandon the educational 
    slant for Tomorrowland for a more straight-forwardly entertainment
    based theme, the Imagineers will finally have a theme that they can
    finally make work.
    	Oh -- and one final thing -- several people have commented that
    the new Tomrrowland is really Lucasland, given the rehab's heavy
    reliance on the " Star Wars " films and their characters. These people
    complain that -- by using these non-Disney characters -- the Imagineers
    are watering down the purity of the parks. Oh, come on. 
    	After all, Disney himself incorporated non-Disney characters into
    his original plans for the park. How so ? Well, did Disney ever make a
    movie version of " Tom Sawyer " or " Huckleberry Finn " ? Nope, yet 
    Tom Sawyer's island sits in the middle of Frontierland's Rivers of 
    America and nobody complains that these Mark Twain characters take 
    away from the Disney look and feel of the park.
    	And what about the " Jungle Cruise " ? Disney himself admitted that
    this attraction was inspired by that great John Huston film, " The 
    African Queen. " In fact, the boats the park uses to cruise the rivers of
    mystery are based on the tough little tug Katherine Hepburn and
    Humphrey Bogart used to make their memorable trip.
    	And Disney wasn't above " borrowing " a prop from a successful
    non-Disney film if he felt it would add to the park. After " Around 
    the World in 80 Days " became a box office sensation, Walt made 
    arrangements with the film's producer, Michael Todd, to display the
    hot air balloon Phineas Fogg ( David Niven ) used to get over the 
    Alps at the park. This balloon made regular trips over the Matterhorn
    during the summer it was on display.
    	So -- once again -- there's a historic precedent for Disneyland
    bringing in non-Disney characters, images and ideas if it adds to
    people's enjoyment of the park. All this grumbling about this practice
    taking away from " the purity of the park " and being something " Walt
    wouldn't do " is complete nonsense.
    	My apologies to all who opened this note looking for information 
    on Hollywoodland. Last week, I promised that I'd have a lengthy note
    detailing the plans for that addition to the park by early this week. 
    But -- given all the brew-ha-ha that rose up over my Tomorrowland 
    rehab notes -- I felt that a note explaining why the Imagineers feel
    that they have a right to make changes in that part of the park as well
    as a detailed history illustrating why the old Tomorrowland never quite
    worked was in order. I promise -- honest, truly, this time for sure -- to
    have that Hollywood note entered by the time you all folks get back
    from your Labor Day vacations. ( And -- I assure you, Dave -- you 
    *ain't* gonna like it ! )
    	Seriously, Dave, I'm sorry if any of the comments in this or
    previous notes offended you. This time around, I tried for a kinder, 
    gentler tone in my note. I'm not entirely sure I succeeded, but --
    what the hey ! -- it was worth a shot.
    	But I really do think that maybe you're taking this " Disney is
    ruining its theme parks " things a bit too seriously. Remember, we're
    just talking about theme parks here -- not life-and-death matters. And
    -- really -- it's okay if someone else has a strong opinion that disagrees
    with your point of view. That's what freedom of speech is all about,
    pal.
    	So really, get yourself some Dole Whip and chill out, Dave. Relax,
    get in touch with your sense of humor ( And sense of proportion) again
    ... THEN write a blistering reply to my note.
    
    	Oooh, I bet it's really going to hit the fan NOW !!!!!!!
    
    		Looking forward to the notes that are sure to follow,
    
    	                 		I am,
    
    				your obediant serpent,
    
    				    Robespierre
    
                         

    RE: last few replies

    Yeah, yeah...I know...I get carried away sometimes.  I get so
    passionate about this stuff because I love it so much.  You know, like
    an overly protective parent, I overreact.

    For the record...

    I *am* for change in the park and knew about Walt's quote on "Disneyland
    will never be finished".  Yes, I agree that Tomorrowland had problems from
    the word go (I just wanted them to get it right this time with all the
    time, technology, and money they now have).

    As far as Disneyland incorporating "foreign ideas"; sure I will concede
    those points (with the caveat that one or two ideas is fine, but someone
    such as Lucas "architecting" all of a land is, in my opinion, excessive).

    Finally, I need to learn to keep my mouth shut about this stuff.  I
    find that 99% of the populace disagrees with just about everything I
    have to say about Disney parks.  My problem is I note first and think
    about it later.  Sorry to all if my tirade was offensive.  I hope that
    no one feels that I am intolerant of (how did .92 put it?) "someone else
    (who) has a strong opinion that disagrees with your (my) point of
    view".  Thanks to Robespierre Hill for entering this vital information
    for all of the Disney-holics who participate in this conference.  I
    trust my nonsense will not deter you from continuing to enter your
    excellent replies.


    That said, let's get back to the business at hand.


    David.

    re: .92
    
    a)  Look up the definition of the word "prolix".  (Just kidding)
    
    b)  Yes, Disneyland incorporated non-Disney characters.  Look at what
    they all have in common:  Tom Sawyer, Huck Finn, "The African Queen" --
    these characters are all modeled after _real_ people.  They're fictitious
    characters, sure, but they're also historical ones, and they fit in
    with the themes of the lands where they're found.  As far as I know,
    droids, Muppets, and Ninja Turtles have never existed in the real
    world.  I suppose you could say _anything_ belongs in Fantasyland,
    but that's just rationalization.
                                  
    c)  Nothing in Tomorrowland is futuristic.  Of course not.  After all,
    how futuristic can you be when you have to use current technology to
    build all these things?  As I recall, the original plan was to
    represent life in 1985, so Tomorrowland should be pretty much 
    outdated by now.  I wouldn't call the current plans terribly futuristic
    either.  I'd be mollified if they would at least attempt to build
    _something_ with some scientific/educational value instead of going
    purely for entertainment's sake.
    
    - snopes
    
    

    The changes at DisneyLand don't bother me. But thought I would just
    mention that my 10 year old son no longer has any desire to watch the
    Star Wars movies I have on tape. When his friends are over and I try to
    get them to watch one if they are bored, its the Bart Simpson reply of, "
    NO way dude, get real". 
    
    Oh I'm sure he will find the Lucas version of Disneyland entertaining
    when he gets there (his 5th time to the park), but by then it will be
    somewhat dated, if it isn't already.
    
    I'm sure they will pull if off, the changes are required.
    
    Dave

    After reading all of the past notes it begins to make sense as to why
    EPCOT is different than the artist renditions we saw in the mid-70's.
    
    There's always a need for change and most of the changes Disney makes
    are for the most part for the betterment of the parks and vistors.
    
    Mike

    
    RE : .93
    
    		Spoken like a gentleman. And -- really -- there's no need
    to feel contrite or apologize for feeling passionate about the parks.
    I think everyone who notes here feels strongly about Disneyland and
    Walt Disney World. ( Besides, I enjoy debating with someone who has 
    a very definite opinion about Disney. It makes for a lively note file
    ... So -- please, Dave -- feel free to rant and rave about any of the
    developments Disney has in the works. Who knows ? Every once in a 
    while, I might even agree with you. )
    
    *************************************************************************
    
    	 	SPEAKING OF WHICH -- While I know the last five and six 
    notes I've thrown into this file have been pro-Eisner, I have to admit
    there are areas the Disney Company is thinking about going into in the 
    '90s that I feel are ... well, questionable at best. Among these is a
    national chain of night clubs ( Based on Pleasure Island ), a series 
    of super-malls with Disney-style theme-park attractions inside ( This
    is inspired by the success of those Canadian mega-malls ), and -- 
    horror of horrors -- a national chain of Disney day care centers.
	 	While I approve of the vigor and vitality Eisner and his
    team have brought to the Disney Company and approve -- for the most 
    part -- of the plans they made for improving and upgrading their
    Anaheim and Florida properties, I also feel that there are things that 
    the Disney shouldn't be involved in. But that's another note for 
    another time. ( Hey, moderator ! You want to open a file on this ?
    I'll be glad to sling in some data ! )
    
    ***********************************************************************
    
    	RE : .94
    
    		" Prolix " ?! Is that some sort of European cereal ?
    		My apologies, Snopes. When in the middle of a debate, 
    I do have a tendency to run at the mouth. I figure -- if you throw
    a wall of words at someone -- who knows ? maybe there's a phrase or
    two somewhere in the pile that might just win the war.
    		But your " ficticious-characters-who-are-based-on-real
    people-are-okay-in-the-park-but-no-droids-or-singing-frogs " is a
    wee bit weak, don't you think ? I don't really think that's the 
    reason Walt and the Imagineers brought Tom, Huck and " The African
    Queen " on board at the park. IMHO, the real reason that these non
    Disney elements were incorporated in the design of the park is that
    they easily fit into the theme of that area. I know that's kind of a
    simplistic take on the situation -- but I don't think a whole lot of 
    deep thought went into these decisions. Disney liked the notion of 
    having Tomy Sawyer's Island and an " African Queen "-like ride at his
    park, so he built them. Plain and simple.
    
    	RE : .95
    
    		Funny you should mention " The Simpsons. " No, Disney's
    not bought these characters. But -- according to my sources in Orlando
    -- Bart, Homer and the rest of the family will soon been seen strolling
    the street of Universal Studios - Florida. Well, better there than at
    Disney - MGM, I guess.
    
    	RE : .96
    
    		Speaking of EPCOT, you folks have no doubt heard about the
    new theme park / resort hotel / entertainment complex Disney is
    thinking about building in Long Beach. But have you heard that Disney
    is also thinking about building a new theme park in Anaheim on some
    land they own near Disneyland ? ( " We'll build one or the other, 
    not both, " said Uncle Michael Eisner in an interview in January of 
    this year. " Where we build will ultimately depend on who wants us
    most -- Long Beach or Anaheim. "  Yikes !! )
    		Anywho, so far, only the Long Beach plan has been unveiled.
    But a few details about the ideas under consideration for the Anaheim
    project have been leaked out of Disney's Imagineering headquarters in
    Glendale, CA. They include :
    
    		1) Abandoning the Hollywoodland addition to Disneyland and 
    building a full-scale recreation of the Disney-MGM Studio Theme Park in 
    California. ( Calm down, Dave ! )
    		2) Using '90's ideas and technology to build a Calfornian
    version of EPCOT Center. ( Down, Dave, down ! )
    
    		Again, let me stress that these are just rumors that I've 
    gotten from friends who work within the Disney Company. It's possible
    that -- when Disney finally gets around to unveiling its plans for its
    second Anaheim park -- that neither of this ideas will have been used.
    But I have heard from very reliable sources within the company that
    these two ideas are being given VERY serious consideration.
    
    		Okay, that's enough nonsensical noting for now. I promised
    that I'd file a report on Disneyland's Hollywoodland addition by Tuesday
    morning and -- if I'm going to meet that deadline -- I'd best get it in
    gear.
    
    		Hope all you Disney dweebs have a great Labor Day,
                            Somewhat sincerely yours,
     
				Robespierre 

    
    	" Hooray for Hollywood ( land ), that screwy, bally-hooey
    			Hollywood ( land ) .... "
    
    	Yes, you've heard it alluded to in previous notes. You've watched
    Dave go ballistic at the mere mention of its name, but -- Now -- read
    for yourself the preliminary design plans for Disneyland's proposed
    ninth land ... ( The envelope, please ? )
    
    			     HOLLYWOODLAND !!!!!
    
    	DISCLAIMER : Now, all you DEC Disney dweebs out there have to
    understand that we're talking about a part of the park that isn't
    scheduled to be built until after 1995. Consequently, over the next
    five years, the design scheme for Hollywoodland may change in dozens
    of ways that we can't foresee right now. Attractions may be added or
    dropped, the location of ride buildings may be shuffled about -- so
    it's hard to be too definite about what's going to be located where in 
    Hollywoodland right now. ( Hey -- I've got great sources inside the
    Disney Company, but none of them claim to be clairvoyant. ) So please
    -- when you visit Hollywoodland in the summer of 1999 ( When
    construction on the very last HL attraction is finally supposed to be
    completed ) and you find that the " Toon Town Trolley " ride is located 
    at where I said the " Superstar Television " theater was going to be,
    don't send nasty notes to my node. I'll be happy if even HALF the
    information I post here ends up being on the money.
    
    	That said, it's time for a little Disneyland history lesson ...
    
    	Those of you with old souvenir maps of Disneyland ( circa 1956 
    to 1963 ) might recall something odd about the layout of the park. 
    Looking over the map, you'll note the usual lands -- Main Street,
    Adventureland, Frontierland, Fantasyland, and Tomorrowland -- in 
    their usual places. But -- just off to the right of Main Street --
    you might also recall detailed sketches for two additional lands that
    were never built at Disneyland : Liberty Street and Edison Square.
    
    	What's the deal here ? Why the elaborate plans but then no follow
    through ? Well, Walt Disney had always intended to build something on
    this odd hunk of real estate between Main Street and Tomorrowland.
    Even on the earliest design plans for Disneyland, this spot on the
    map was invariably left empty -- except for that mysterious phrase,
    " Future Expansion. "
    
    	But first -- before he could expand the park -- Walt had to get
    the original five lands at Disneyland up and running. So, during the 
    first few years the park was open, Disney concentrated on making 
    sure the original Disneyland lands were up to snuff. He added new
    attractions, reworked existing ones, as he tried to give his guests the
    most entertainment possible during their day at Disneyland.
    
    	But -- even back in 1955 -- Walt understood the importance of
    adding new lands and attractions for people to see each time they came back
    to his " Magic Kingdom." So he thought of the land behind Main Street -- 
    then being used as a parking area for park employees as well as an on-site
    construction facility for attractions about to be installed at Disneyland
    -- as the most logical place to start expanding his park. So, even before
    Disneyland opened, Walt and his Imagineers were tossing around ideas
    about what they should build on Disneyland's " backlot. "
    
    	One of the earliest suggestions for use of this open area in 
    the park was -- Shades of EPCOT Center's World Showcase ! --  was a
    series of international streets. According to conceptual drawings
    circa 1954, guests would be able to enter the park, taken a right at
    the building that currently houses the Main Street Chapeau Shop and
    suddenly find themselves in Paris. Just a block up up the street would
    have been London and -- a block beyond that -- Rome.
    
    	The idea was that each street would have been a microcosm of that
    particular country -- with typical shops, theaters, restaurants, and street
    performers to be found along each boulevard. But, ultimately, Walt and
    his design team decided that this plan was a little too ambitious for the
    area available. ( As well, there were concerns that Main Street U.S.A.
    might pale in comparison to its flashier neighbor. After all, how are you
    gonna keep 'em down on the farm after they've seen Paree ? ... Or something
    like that. )
    
    	So, in 1956 -- after Disneyland had successfully made it through its 
    first year of operation -- the Imagineers presented Walt with not one
    but two different ideas for areas to be built on the land behind Main
    Street U.S.A.. They were Liberty Street, a recreation of Boston circa 1776;
    and Edison Square, an idealized New York City block circa 1890.
    
    	Viewed today, each of these proposed additions to the park have
    their own unique charm. Liberty Street would have done a pretty decent job
    of recreating colonial America. After exiting Main Street -- Disneyland
    guests would have found themselves walking along a narrow New England
    street. If they continued past the three masted schooner tied up at 
    Griffin's wharf -- guests could have visited Paul Revere's silver shop or
    stopped in at the Boston Observer Print Shop. Or -- if they had walked past
    the Liberty Tree ( Festooned with hanging lanterns, signifying the original
    13 colonies ) -- guests could stop in a simulation of Philadelphia's
    Independence Hall, where they could have viewed a life-size diorama of the
    signing of the Declaration of Independence ( Remember, folks, this was in
    the days before audio-animatronics. This would probably have been just a
    static display of wax figures standing in for Jefferson, Aadams, Franklin et
    al. ).
    	  
     	( At this point, most people who have been to Walt Disney World 
    should be having a strong feeling of deja vu. Yes, you have been to this
    place before -- or someplace very similiar. Only -- in Orlando -- this
    part of the Magic Kingdom would be called Libery Square. Interestingly
    enough, one of the reason Walt opted not to build Liberty Street in 
    Disneyland was that the Imagineers had yet to come up with the
    technology necessary to build this proposed part of the park's big 
    attraction, " The Hall of Presidents. " Of course, by 1971, Disney's
    technical wizardy was far enough advanced that they were able to pull off
    this sort of spectacular. But -- back in the 1950s -- it took years of
    effort to come up with just one believable human figure : Abraham Lincoln. 
    
    	By the way, there's a common mis-conception that -- when Walt 
    Dinsey showed the Lincoln figure to Robert Moses, the developer of 
    the 1964 New York World's Fair -- the show that was being developed 
    was " Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln. " Wrong, folks ! The Imagineers
    were actually trying to produce " The Hall of Presidents " when Moses 
    visited WED with Walt and insisted that he must have the Lincoln figure 
    for his World's Fair. So -- seeing as they had been barely able to put
    together one workable human figure in five years time -- the Imagineers
    told Walt that they'd never be able to put together the additional 30 or
    so believable robotic presidents they needed to pull off the show in the 
    time they had left before the fair opened.
    
    	 So, in order to meet the fall of 1964 deadline, Walt reluctantly
    agreed to let the Imagineers scale back the already scripted show --
    trimming " The Hall of Presidents " back to the more manageable  " Great
    Moments with Mr. Lincoln. " Even in this abbreviated form, Mr. Lincoln
    was barely completed in time for the fair. But, when it finally opened
    at the state of Illinois pavilion, " Great Moments " really wowwed the 
    crowds in NYC. So -- not wanting to tamper with success -- when Walt
    brought his acclaimed World's Fair attractions back to Anaheim for
    installation at Disneyland, he didn't change a thing -- particularly when
    it came to Mr. Lincoln. It took 'til 1971 -- with the opening of Walt Disney
    World's Magic Kingdom and its Liberty Square area -- for Lincoln to appear
    as he was originally intended, as the centerpiece of " The Hall of
    Presidents. " )
    
    	Disney theme park fans should have an even stronger feeling of 
    deja vu when looking over the concepts for " Edison Square." The quaint
    Old New York City facades hid what many Disneyland visitors might now
    consider an old friend. This attraction -- which was to have been 
    sponsored by General Electric -- illustrated the history of electricity 
    in America, as seen through the eyes of one family. Yes, that's right,
    this was the prototype for the " Carousel of Progress. " Only here -- in
    its earliest incarnation -- Walt and his Imagineers envisioned this story
    of " Progress through Electricity " as a walk-through attraction. The 
    audience supposed to walk through four seperate theaters in order to 
    take in the whole show. ( Thank God some bright Imagineer came up with 
    the theater-go-ground concept ! )
    	
	So -- after all the time and money spent on developing these 
    proposed additions to the park, why weren't either Edison Square or
    Liberty Street built at Disneyland ? Well, remember that technology
    gap. These areas were designed back in 1956 and it wasn't 'til 1962
    that Walt and his team finally developed audio-animatronics. And -- even 
    at this point -- it took the Imagineers a year or two before they were 
    to move beyond singing birds and flowers and produce a believable human
    figure. So these two areas -- whose main attractions were dependant on a 
    sophisticated technology that Disney hadn't even invented yet -- languished
    on the drawing board.
    
    	Then -- by the time the Imagineers had perfected audio-animatronics
    -- Walt had lost his enthusiasm for Edison Square and Liberty Street.
    Though he still felt strongly about the attractions that were to serve 
    as the centerpieces of each of these proposed additions to the park, he
    just didn't feel like spending the time or money necessary to build the
    areas that would serve as the framing for these new showpieces. Disney 
    had other, more exciting projects in the wings by then -- New Orleans
    Square and " Pirates of the Carribbean," The 1964 New York World's Fair
    and all the shows Disney had been asked to produce for that extravaganza,
    the first Tomorrowland rehab, and -- off in the distance -- the Florida
    project.
    
        So these expansion plans died on the drawing board. And -- while
    construction boomed elsewhere on the Anaheim property -- this chunk of 
    land behind Main Street and Tomorrowland remained relatively quiet.
    
    	Disneyland management -- not the people who design the rides and
    attractions, but the folks who actually run the park -- noticed. For
    nearly ten years, they had been working out of barracks-style buildings
    that had been slapped together back in 1955. Tired of putting up with
    leaky roofs and creaking floors, the Disneyland management team asked 
    Walt that -- if there were no longer any definite plans for expansion
    on the land behind Main Street -- could they have the site for a new
    Disneyland administration area ? Walt really wasn't very enthusiastic
    about the idea, but -- since the first Tomorrowland rehab was already 
    in the works ( Which meant that -- sometime very soon -- Disneyland 
    management was going to have to put with the inconvience of construction
    going on right outside their window for a year or more ) -- Walt agreed
    to build an administration center for the park's management team.
    
    	However, Walt's deal with Disneyland's management team had one 
    important condition. The administration building was not to be viewed as
    a permanent structure. If the Imagineers could come up with a workable 
    idea for the area behind Main Street U.S. A., Disneyland's management would
    have to gracefully vacant their building and set up shop somewhere 
    else on the property. ( At the time, the general feeling was that it
    would be a few years -- five, ten at most -- before the Imagineers
    cooked up something to build behind Main Street U.S.A. Knowing that
    it wasn't a great deal but anything would be better than working out of
    a bunch of glorified quonset huts, Disneyland management agreed. )
    
    	So, in late 1965, the plans for Disneyland's Tomorrowland rehab as
    well as the new administration area were finalized. By summertime,  
    construction had begun in earnest. But -- in December -- Walt Disney
    died.
    
    	Walt's death was a terrible blow for Walt Disney Productions, but
    -- of all the division of the company -- the theme parks managed to
    stay on course ( And -- most importantly -- keep Walt Disney Productions
    in the black ) for the longest. Why ? Because Walt left behind a pile 
    of specific ideas for attractions he wanted built at Disneyland and it
    took the Imagineers quite a few years to go through this wealth of
    conceptual material.
    
    	But -- each time the Disneyland management team got together to
    discuss possible new areas and attractions for the park -- guess which
    part of the Anaheim property escaped development every time ? That's
    right, the land behind Main Street U.S.A. Why ? Because Disneyland's
    management was comfortable in its snazzy new administration center and
    they'd be damned if they were going to give up their work space so the
    guests could have some new rides.
    
    	So a piece of the Anaheim property that Walt had always intended
    to open to the public stayed closed off for nearly 35 years. ( Oh --
    that's not to say that the Imagineers weren't able to gain use of some
    of the land back here for new attractions. After several months of
    negotiations, Disneyland management agreed to give up a four acre parcel
    in the northeast corner of the backlot for the construction of Space 
    Mountain in 1976 -- but only after the Imagineers agreed to upgrade 
    the park's administration center in the process. )
    
    	This all changed when Michael Eisner came on board at the Disney
    Company. Almost from the day he became chairman of the board, Eisner
    pushed for new construction at Disneyland. Looking to add as many rides 
    and attractions to the Anaheim Park as possible ( Thereby making it 
    impossible for guests to see the whole park in one day, so that they'd
    have to come back to Disneyland the next day and spend even more
    money ! ), Michael asked the Imagineers to come up with concepts for
    possible use of all of the remaining open space in and around the 
    Magic Kingdom.
    
    	( How can Eisner propose such an ambitious plan ? Well, first of 
    all, not many people realize that there's a tremendous amount of land
    in and around Disneyland that has yet to be developed. In the nearly 25
    years since Walt Disney had passed away, Walt Disney Productions'
    previous management team had moved cautiously with construction around 
    the park. They rarily -- if ever -- went forward with any plans to 
    build on land within Disneyland that hadn't been built on before. 
    Consequently, there are dozens of acres in and around the park that 
    have never been utilized. Uncle Mike intends to change all that.
    
    	Then, just last year, the Disney Company purchased the Wrather
    Corporation -- the company that owned the Disneyland Hotel. With the
    additional land they acquired with that deal, Eisner and crew have
    literally hundreds of acres to build on in the coming years. And build
    they will ! )
    
    	Early last year, as Eisner and his team were basking in the glow
    of the successful launch of the Disney - MGM Studio Theme Park, plans
    were being finalized for the second Tomorrowland rehab. However, at 
    one of the design meetings, Michael threw the Imagineers for a loop 
    when he asked if it'd be possible to recreate some of the more popular
    attraction from the studio park at Disneyland. When Tony Baxter
    suggested that they build on the long fallow land behind Main Street
    U.S.A., the Disneyland management team squawked. " But that's where
    our administration center is located, " they cried. " Not to worry, "
    said Michael, " We'll build you guys a great new building somewhere 
    else. "
    
    	And -- right now -- that's the plan. But then -- this is one of 
    those wheels-within-wheels deal, where the success of one project is
    entirely dependent on another. Now that you folks have the deep
    background on the site, let me see if I can bring up-to-speed on 
    what the current plans for this part of the park are.
    
    	With the final design of the new Tomorrowland supposedly locked
    into place by this coming January, rehab work is tenatively scheduled
    to get underway in September 1991. Now -- at the same time -- behind
    the scenes, Tomorrowland's physical plant ( Its electrical, waste 
    disposal, food service and maintenance facilities ) will undergo 
    extensive undergrades. By 1995, the areas will be ready to carry 
    twice their usual load -- which they'll obviously have to do when 
    Hollywoodland opens.
    
    	Now, during Tomorrowland's rehab work, the new Disneyland
    administration center will be built to the left of the main park
    entrance -- just behind Adventureland. This will involve the relocation
    of the park's picnic area and locker facility. No decision on their 
    relocation has been made at this time.
    
    	As the site preparation work behind Main Street starts to get
    serious, all Disneyland parades will have to be launched from the area
    behind the Emporium and City Hall. This will necessitate a lot of work
    being done behind the scenes here to accomodate the large elaborate 
    floats and vehicles used in parades at the park these days. Expect the
    " Jungle Cruise " to shut down for several months in 1993 - 1994 as
    the new parade launch area -- as well as the new administration
    building -- are being constructed. ( It's possible that the Imagineers
    might take advantage of this down-time for the " Jungle Cruise " to 
    up-grade the mechanics of a few of the older scenes on this attraction.
    At least, I've heard whisperings that this is be considered. We'll know
    better in a few months. )
    
	Once the new Tomorrowland is opened and Disneyland's managment 
    team has settled in to its new building sometime in late 1994, serious
    construction should begin behind the scenes at Main Street U.S.A.
    
    	The first attraction scheduled to open in Hollywoodland is 
    " Dick Tracy's Crime Stoppers. " Scheduled to open for the summer of
    1996, this will be located in a building that'll back right up against
    Main Street U.S.A. Done up in the bright primary colors used to give
    the " Dick Tracy " movie its distinct visual signature, this vaguely
    industrial looking facility will house the latest in Disney theme park
    attraction technology -- for " Dick Tracy's Crime Stoppers " will be 
    the park's first truly interactive ride.
    
    	Here's the set-up for the attraction : You and three guests climb 
    into a '30s era police cruiser. Tommy guns are attached to each window
    of the vehicle. Once you're " belted " into your seat, your vehicle rolls 
    out of the warehouse queue area / ride loading building. You and the 
    other passengers are off on a wild ride through the darkened streets
    of Dick Tracy's hometown, where you'll encounter gun-carrying thugs at
    most every turn.
    
    	Like with most every Disney theme park attraction, your vehicle
    rolls along a pre-determined track past audio-animatronic settings and
    characters. What makes this ride so special ? Well, your Tommy gun --
    which the ride operater will advise you to " fire " at the first sign
    of trouble -- works on the same principle as the shot guns in
    Frontierland's shooting gallery. Aim your gun at one target and fire, and
    a raven cries. Aim your gun at another target and fire, and a tombstone
    shakes. 
    
    	Get the idea ? You see -- if your vehicle rolls by an audio -
    animatronic version of Mumbles as he stands in an alley, guarding a
    warehouse and you shoot at him with your tommy gun, he might say 
    something comical before ducking into the warehouse. If you aim at
    the car beside him, its hood might fly open. And so on and so on.
    
    	You see, according to the ride's current design specifications, a
    guest could have a completely different adventure each time he rides
    the " Dick Tracy's Crime Stoppers " attraction. You see, the tommy guns
    you'll be firing out the windows -- though they'll make an authentic
    " ack-ack-ack " sound each time you pull on the trigger -- won't really
    be firing bullets. These guns will be " firing off " individual pulses of
    laser light every time you shoot. In each set piece along the route of
    the ride, there'll be dozens of these light sensitive targets hidden 
    away. When your " bullets " hit one of the " targets, " this will set 
    off some sort of reaction.
    
	It's this inter-active techology that Disney feels will make 
    " Dick Tracy's Crime Stoppers " a big hit with every guest at the park. 
    But it's another feature of Hollywoodland that the Imagineers hope
    will make this part of the park an even bigger hit with the public --
    Hollywood Boulevard.
    
    	Have you ever been to Disneyland on a hot summer night ? If so,
    then you must remember what a nightmare it is trying to get in or out
    of the park when " The Main Street Electrical Parade " is about to 
    begin. People are usually packed in like sardines up and down Main
    Street. It takes a really herculean effort to make it through that 
    gauntlet of not-so-happy campers who are determined to see the parade.
    
    	So how will Hollywood Boulevard help ? Well, this first street to 
    be open through Hollywoodland will offer guest an alternative route 
    across the park. No longer will they have to elbow their way to the
    exit. Disneyland guests will now be able to get through the park 
    by entering Hollywoodland ( The entrance nearest the park's central 
    hub will located between the Main Street Greeting Card Shop and the 
    Plaza Pavilion restaurant ), strolling south down Hollywood Boulevard
    past the " Dick Tracy Crime Stoppers " attraction building, and exit 
    back onto Main Street U.S.A. next to the " Le Chapeau " shoppe. The
    opening of this single cross street should make getting around
    Disneyland a hell of a lot easier to do on those packed summer nights.
    
    	And life -- and traffic flow -- around the Magic Kingdom should get 
    even more bearable with the opening of Hollywoodland's second big street,
    Sunset Boulevard. Set to open in 1998, this street will run from 
    Hollywoodland's third entrance point -- between the " Alien Encounters "
    building and the rehabbed " Space Mountain " -- to Hollywood Boulevard's
    central hub entrance.
    
    	Along Sunset Boulevard -- backed up against Tomorrowland's " Star
    Tours " ride building -- guests will find the  " Toontown Trolley "
    attraction. Based in a ride building modeled after the Red Car trolley
    station seen in " Who Framed Roger Rabbit ?, " this attraction will
    feature a wild simulator-based trip through Toontown.
    
    	In this attraction, guests will board a simulator modeled after the
    Red Car trolleys shown in the original " Roger Rabbit " film. However, the
    big difference between this and other Disney simulator attractions is that
    -- instead of just having one big screen in front of you -- guests will
    be surrounded by windows. You'll have scenery all around you as Roger 
    Rabbit takes you on a wild ride through the streets of Toontown.
    
    	( Though this sounds innovative right now, by the time the
    " Toontown Trolley " attraction bows at Disneyland in 1998, this new
    wrinkle on the simulator-based theme park attraction will be considered
    old hat by most amusement park afficianados. You see, there'll be at least
    three other versions of this type of attraction open around the country
    by 1998 : the original " Toontown Trolley " attraction at the Disney-MGM
    Theme Park in Florida -- which is supposed to open in 1994 ; and the
    " Back to the Future " simulator-attractions that area scheduled to open
    at Universal Studios Florida and Universal Studios Hollywood next spring.
    This " Back to the Future " attraction -- produced by " Star Wars " SFX
    wiz, Douglas Trumbull -- will place guests in a motion-controlled mock-up
    of Doc Brown's infamous time-traveling Delorean. You'll be able to look
    off any direction through the car's windows as you race across the
    space-time continum, as the film for this simulator-based attraction will
    play on an Ommimax screen. The passenger will literally be surrounded by
    over-sized images from the ride's special effects- filled film. Sounds
    really snazzy, yes ? Let's hope Disney and Roger Rabbit will be able to 
    come up with a ride to top it. )  
    
   	Why will the " Toontown Trolley " ride building be built right next
    to the " Star Tours " ride building ? So that it can tap into the same
    sophisticated computers " Star Tours " used to control its simulators.
    That way, Disneyland gets more byte for its buck.
    
    	As an extra-added bonus, Disneyland guests anxious to drink and
    dine in the style of hard boiled private dick, Eddie Valiant, can head 
    upstairs to the Terminal Bar and Grill. Modeled after the bar in the
    first " Roger Rabbit " film, this restaurant will be one of the few 
    places in the Magic Kingdom where guests can purchase beer, wine and
    cocktails.
    
    	Across the street from the " Toontown Trolley " ride building will
    be the first of two blocks of '40s era restaurants and shops. Here,
    you'll find much the same selection of food and goods currently
    available along Hollywood Boulevard in Orlando's Studio Theme Park.
    
    	The final piece of the Hollywoodland puzzle will fall into place 
    with the opening of the Avenue of the Stars. This cross street --
    connecting Hollywoodland's Main Street entrance with its Tomorrowland 
    entrance -- will serve as home for the last three attractions to be
    installed in this addition to the park : " The Great Movie Ride, "
    " Superstar Television, " and " Baby Herman's Runaway Baby Buggy 
    Ride. "
    
    	So, how will Anaheim's version of " The Great Movie Ride " be
    different from the original Orlando version ? Well, seeing as there'll
    be ten years of technological break-throughs between the time this
    attraction was first produced, expect a much more sophisticated cast 
    of audio-animatronic figures this time around. As well, the Imagineers 
    are talking about staging scenes from different classic films for this
    version of ' The Great Movie Ride." ( Though -- I'm told -- the
    Munchkin village / Wicked Witch scene will still serve as the finale
    of the attraction. ) 
    
    	A more interesting wrinkle will be the differences between the 
    two ride buildings. Orlando's version of " The Great Movie Ride " is
    housed in a recreation of Graumann's Chinese Theater. For Disneyland's
    version, the Imagineers are currently planning on installing the ride 
    in a mock-up of Los Angeles' Union Station. This classic old stucco
    building -- with its high vaulted ceiling and wide marble floors --
    makes it one of the more glamorous spots in the city.
    
    	( Actually, using a '30s era train station as the ride building
    for this incarnation of " The Great Movie Ride " could prove to be 
    quite appropriate. You see, right now, plans call for the Disneyland
    railroad to roll right through the building. According to the concept
    currently under consideration, guests riding on the train would roll 
    through the " Great Westerns " sequence of " The Great Movie Ride. "
    As they rolled through the ride building, the train passengers would
    be able to glimpse John Wayne on his horse, Clint Eastwood lingering
    in his doorway, and -- a classic film character that can only be seen
    from the train -- sheriff Gary Cooper waiting at the train station for
    the noon train to roll in. Of course, the down-side of the train
    rolling through " The Great Movie Ride " building is that the " Great
    Western " set would replace both the " Grand Canyon " and " Primeval
    World " dioramas. )
    
    	 " Superstar Television " and " Baby Herman's Runaway Baby Buggy
    Ride " ... Well, no one's quite sure where these two attractions will
    be built right now. A few weeks ago, their ride building were serving
    as book-ends for " The Great Movie Ride " building. Today, well ..
    Your guess is as good as mine.
    
    	The " Superstar Television " show will be pretty much an exact 
    duplicate of the original Orlando version of this attraction. Guests
    will be selected from the group of people waiting in the queue area 
    to appear in recreations of classic old television shows. The only
    foreseeable change here would be if the Imagineers substituted some 
    popular contemporary TV program for one of the classics shows currently
    being used in Florida.
    
    	" Baby Herman's Runaway Baby Buggy Ride " will the one true " kiddie
    ride " in Disneyland's Hollywoodland. Based on the wild Roger Rabbit
    short subject, " Tummy Trouble, " this attraction is really just a '90s
    version of " Mr. Toad's Wild Ride. " Guests climb inside over-sized
    baby buggy and zoom through the corridors of Toontown Hospital. It'll
    be fun, I guess, but this attraction will be nothing that you haven't seen
    before.
    
    	What else can I tell about Disneyland's version of Hollywoodland ?
    Well, remember -- the plans are still pretty vague at this time -- but
    the Studio Theme Park's most popular restaurant, the Prime Time Cafe, 
    will probably be built in Anaheim as part of the " Superstar
    Television " complex. 
    
    	What else ? Well, in an attempt to better blend Space Mountain's
    futuristic spires with the faux '40s surrounding, the " Hollywood "
    sign and the hills that surround it will be recreated in miniature.
    Seen from street level in Hollywoodland, the " Hollywood " sign will
    supposedly completely block Disneyland guests view of this Tomorrowland
    ride building.
    
    	What else ? Well, expect those great " streetmosphere " performers
    who wander the streets of Orlando's Studio Theme Park to appear
    throughout Disneyland's Hollywoodland too.
    
    	Beyond that ... Well, again, let me remind you that it'll be at
    least five years before any real construction begins on Disneyland's
    Hollywoodland -- and plans can change a lot in that time. But my 
    sources within the Disney Company ( No, I can't tell you who they are.
    If their names got back to Uncle Michael, the info they leaked to me 
    would surely cost them their jobs ) seem very confident about what's
    currently being planned for this part of the park. If there are any 
    dramatic changes in the design or the attractions slated for this 
    addition to Disneyland, I'll be sure to post the new news here.
    
    	What do *I* think of Disneyland's proposed Hollywoodland addition ?
    Well, while I admit I'm a fan of the original Disney - MGM Studio Theme 
    Park, I'm not entirely sure I like the idea of seeing that park recreated
    in miniature in Anaheim. I mean -- to me -- it seems like the Imagineers 
    are trying to cram too many attractions into a fairly small part of the
    park. As I understand it, one of the main reasons that this area behind 
    Main Street is being developed at all is to ease the terrible traffic
    flow within the park during Disneyland's crowded summer season. But how can 
    Hollywoodland hope to clear up all that human traffic congestion when
    its streets will be jammed with people trying to get on all these new 
    attractions.
    
    	Anywho, I believe that this is my most prolix note to date. I'll be 
    most interested to hear all your comments on the proposed plans. Now,
    if you'll forgive, I have to go lie down now. I've typing for 10 hours 
    straight now and -- believe me -- that's the most laboring I've done on
    Labor Day in a quite a number of years.
    
    				Your obediant serpent,
    
    				    Robespierre
    
    experienced 

    With my moderator hat slightly on,
    
    Let me  say that coming back from a 2 week vaction in which I had to go
    cold turkey on the ability to read this file,  it's sure is nice to see
    that the other mod's didn't have to step into the conversation to  cool
    down the  discussion that was taking place, it reaffirms my belief that
    us Disney adics  are  a  bunch  of cool headed guys and gals after all.
    ;^)
    
    with my mod hat off,
    
    I'll have to stew on this  for  a  while  before  I say anything on the
    topic, since I'm kinda on the negative side  of  all  this,  along  the
    lines of Dave.
    
    Claude
    
    BTW thanks Roberspierre for entering the info, very informative.

    I've never been to Disneyland but I must comment anyway.
    
    First of all, I like the new Tomorrowland ideas.  My first reaction
    is that these attractions seem more Walt-like than a lot of the stuff
    they've done lately i.e. most of the MGM Studios in Florida.  I do
    think Walt would object to the graphic violence planned for the
    Alien attraction.  I hope they tame that stuff down for the sake of
    younger children.
    
    On the other hand, I really have a bad feeling about the Hollywoodland
    stuff.  It seems like Eisner and friends see this as a good opportunity
    to use duplicate technology which can save money but I wonder what the
    long term plans are.  Will this land have the same problems as the
    current Tomorrowland?  Will it require constant upgrades as the movies
    the rides are themed on become dated?
    
    Here are my suggestions based on a limited knowledge of the park's
    layout:
    
        1.  Drop the Hollywoodland idea completely.  If it must stay,
    	    at least call it something else like Movieland or Showbizland
    	    to get away from the name Hollywood.  Hollywood brings images
    	    to my mind of studio tours, etc., not baby buggy rides.
    
        2.  Go ahead with the plans for the Tomorrowland changes.  Try
    	    to make the Autopia and submarine attractions blend in as
    	    well as possible.  Could they be considered to be part of
    	    Fantasyland and then be used as a transition to Tomorrowland?
    	    After the rehab, rename Tomorrowland to something like
    	    Alienland to fit the new theme.
    
        3.  Put any current Tomorrowland attractions that are fun in the
    	    spot where Hollywoodland is supposed to go.  Bring back any
    	    old technology oriented attractions that were popular.  Put
    	    some Epcot Communicore-like attractions here.  This could be
    	    sort of a Technologyland (could still be called Tomorrowland
    	    for history's sake).  What I envision is an area with rides
    	    like the current Carousel of Progress, the Journey into
    	    Innerspace, etc..  Could this be Edison Square? or maybe
    	    Disneyhistoryland?
    
    
    In case you can't tell, I'm not thrilled with the idea of Hollywoodland.
    I'm already less than thrilled with the MGM Studios stuff in Florida.  I
    think it would be much worse in California.  Why?  Well, there is only a
    small drop of Walt in the Studios.  The only place I see him is in The
    Great Movie Ride.  All the other stuff is high-tech glitz and doesn't feel
    as homey as the rides Walt designed.  The contrast would probably be
    more noticeable in Disneyland.  I'd rather they tried to do something
    more in the style of Walt than give us more glitz.  If that means
    bringing back old attractions and updating them, then so be it.
    
    Ruth

    re: .100

�   After the rehab, rename Tomorrowland to something like Alienland to fit
�   the new theme.

    I can see it now, an attraction where the entire audience is busted by
    the INS...

    re:.101 Rathole alert!!!!!!!!
    
    Hmmm, I hadn't thought of that hitch.  I can imagine lots of confused
    people pouring across the border, destination, Alienland.  So we'd
    either end up with a bunch of illegal aliens residing in Disneyland or
    the aliens would be too frightened to go to Disneyland, fearing some
    sort of INS sting operation.   %^)
    
    Ok, so call it some other name.  Spaceland?  Or does that conjure up
    images of druggies?  How about Fantasyland?  Oh, that's already taken.
    Anyway, I think the new Tomorrowland should be renamed to represent its
    new theme.  

    re: renaming Tommorowland

    I read in the Disney News last night that Euro Disneyland will have a
    Discoveryland instead of Tommorowland.  It seems someone has gotten the
    message.

This is the last weekend to see the Main Street Electric Parade and
fireworks at Disneyland.

Bill

    Darn, I'll be there in two weeks! I was hoping to catch these things
    there, since I was too early at WDW.
    
    Linda
    

    Yes siree, thats Hollywood! But us locals no longer call it that, due
    to the influx of junkies,punkers, hookers, pimps, porno shops, the
    general all out decay of a once great place, it is now referred to as 
    
    
    Hollyweird. No kidding, seriously. My 16 year old daughter "cruised "
    that place once (I wasn't too happy about that) she said she would
    never go back. Sad state of affairs in that town. At one time they were
    going to fix up the town. But how do you fix 30 years of neglect. It
    has it's places to go, but generally a very seedy part of L.A.
    
    So, Disney could call it Hollyweird Land. How's that?
    
    Dave

    >
   > 		But your " ficticious-characters-who-are-based-on-real
   > people-are-okay-in-the-park-but-no-droids-or-singing-frogs " is a
   > wee bit weak, don't you think ? I don't really think that's the 
   > reason Walt and the Imagineers brought Tom, Huck and " The African
   > Queen " on board at the park. IMHO, the real reason that these non
   > Disney elements were incorporated in the design of the park is that
   > they easily fit into the theme of that area.
    
    I didn't say characters based on real people were okay; I said
    characters used because they fit the theme of a section of the park
    were superior to those used merely to draw crowds due to their
    commercial appeal.  So, basically you agree.  To clarify, I provide
    this example:
 
If you wanted to create a themed park based on Victorian England, you would
probably want to be sure to include characters from the Sherlock Holmes stories
in your park.  People aren't going to flock to your park to see people dressed
up like Sherlock Holmes and John Watson, but these (fictional) characters
are invaluable in establishing the proper atmosphere and mood and sense of the
historical era.  For many people, the mere mention of the word "London" is
sufficient to conjure up images of Holmes stalking down dark, fog-bound streets,
so closely are the stories associated with the time and place of their setting.
 
Similarly, Disneyland has an area with a steamboat and saloons and other items
designed to represent mid-19th century America.  One of the best ways to
establish the image of this area is to invoke the names of characters from
Mark Twain stories, such as Huckleberry Finn and Tom Sawyer.  For most people,
these names alone are sufficient to conjure up images of middle America in
the 1800's, without even using any physical props.  Indeed, Disney used nothing
more than the _names_ of these characters -- I certainly have never seen anyone 
dressed up like a character out of "Tom Sawyer" wandering around the park.  
(Mike Fink is another name used for the same purpose -- only his name is used, 
and probably fewer than one person in ten thousand would recognize his picture.
His name is used because of the historical image associated with it, and 
nothing else.)
 
Muppets and Ninja Turtles and "Star Wars" characters, however, represent
nothing other than the movies and TV shows in which they have appeared.  The
_likenesses_ (not just the names) of these characters are used for nothing
more than commercial exploitative purposes.  These characters will eventually
be discarded as they become dated and their movies and TV shows fade from
memory; I seriously doubt anyone expects them to be as durable and make as
lasting an impression as the Disney characters have.  This is the difference
between the _artistic_ vision of Walt Disney, and the _commercial_ vision
of Eisner, Lucas, et al.  People with commercial vision are plentiful; people
with true artistic vision are far too few.  It's especially sad to see the
former feeding off the remains of the latter.
    
- snopes
    

    
    RE: 107
    
    	Okay, okay. I'll grant you that the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles don't
    really belong in a Disney Theme Park. In this case, Eisner really does
    seem to be cashing in on what's got to be a short-lived phenomenon. After
    all, he's the one who went to Knotts Berry Farm last year and saw that the
    costumed turtles characters were being used there in a slip-shop manner. So,
    Michael had his minions contact the turtles' creators, saying that Disney
    could do a much better job of presenting those " heroes on a half shell "
    to the public in a theme park setting. The turtles' creators were game,
    a deal was cut and -- Voila ! As of June, the Ninja Turtles were appearing
    at Walt Disney World.
    	Okay, now this sort of quick, slick Hollywood deal-making probably
    offends a lot of you Disney purists. But -- from a businessman's point
    of view -- Eisner deserves a fair amount of credit. After all, this is
    the year that the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles appeared in a movie that
    made $ 100,000,000+ at the box office. This is also the year that the
    Turtles make their Saturday morning network debut. In a few weeks, the
    " Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles " movie will be out on video, and kids
    all over America will be begging their parents to get them a copy. 
    	So, with all this turtle hype going on, where is the one place in 
    America where you can be sure to see the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
    in person every day ? Why, at the Disney - MGM Studios, of course. This
    may not mean a lot to us jaded adult-types, but -- to those eight year old
    kids in the grips of turtle fever ( And to those poor parents wandering
    around the studio theme park, trying to find something in the place that's
    just for kids ) -- having the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles at Disney - MGM
    is a really big deal. 
    	So, even if you're not a fan of the Turtles, you've really got to admire
    Eisner's savvy for landing the rights to use the Teenage Mutant Ninja
    Turtles in a theme park setting now -- when the characters are at their
    absolute hottest. ( By the way, according to my sources at WDW, this is
    not a long term contract. Under the current terms of Disney's agreement
    with the turtles' creators, the " heroes on a half shell " will only be
    appearing at the studio theme park 'til December. After that, well ....
    Disney might opt to extend the agreement for another six months to a
    year, but I wouldn't count on it. So -- if you're a Ninja Turtle fan --
    you'd better get down to Orlando before Christmas.)				
    	But -- when it comes to the Muppets and George Lucas's " Star Wars "
    & " Indiana Jones " characters -- I think you're still a little off-base, 
    Snopes. Unlike the Turtles, I really don't think that Eisner and Co. are
    thinking short-term when it came to acquiring the rights to use these 
    characters in their parks. Far from it. IMHO, the real reason the Disney
    Company aggressively went after Henson's and Lucas's creations is
    because they *DID* believe that this characters would prove to be " as
    durable and making as lasting an impression as the Disney characters. "
    	Face facts, Snopes. The Muppets and George Lucas's creations really
    do have a lot in common with Disney's best characters. Like Mickey and 
    Donald, most of us met Kermit & Luke Skywalker at a fairly young age.
    We laughed at the their jokes, thrilled to their exploits and were touched
    -- particularly when it came to the Muppets -- by their heart.
    	And -- behind the scenes -- Lucas and Henson had even more even
    more in common with Uncle Walt. All three men strove for excellence,
    each taking their respective art-form to a new height. Each surrounded
    themselves with a strong, talented team of people that helped refine
    their craft, making it possible to reach even greater heights. Best of
    all, all three knew how to tell a story, to weave a tale that would
    appeal to the youngest child but still touch the child in all us jaded
    adults. Somehow, they could sense the power to be found in simple things --
    a mouse, a frog, or by starting your story in the traditional way, saying
    it all began " A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. "
   	So I -- for one -- am really not bothered by the notion of Henson's
    or Lucas's characters being folded into the mix at the Disney theme
    parks. I don't view it as a blatantly greedy move by a corporation
    anxious to cash in on " these characters ... for nothing more than
    commercial exploitive purposes. " For me, that's far too cynical a
    view. ( Believe me, there's LOTS of reasons to be cynical when it comes
    to the Disney Company. Bringing the Muppets, Indiana Jones and the 
    " Star Wars " characters on board at the theme parks is NOT one of
    them. ) I see the Company's decision to add attractions and have
    costumed characters based on these creations strolling around the parks
    as yes, commercial, but also somewhat generous.
    	Let me see if I can explain. Remember when you first saw " Who
    Framed Roger Rabbit ? " If you're an animation fan, this was liking 
    dying and going to cartoon heaven. Here -- in one flick -- were all
    of your favorite old cartoon characters. And it wasn't just Disney
    characters consorting with Disney characters, and Warners Brothers 
    characters hanging out with Warner Brothers characters. Here, Daffy
    played piano with Donald, Mickey parachuted with Bugs.
    	You see, for me, seeing that movie was like getting double desserts
    -- an extra helping of all the stuff that used to make me happy when I
    was a kid. Well, that's how *I* feel about the idea of adding the Muppets,
    Indiana Jones and the " Star Wars " characters to the Disney Theme parks. 
    Here are some of my favorite " old friends " from film and television,
    turning up in some of my favorite places on the planet. How can that
    not make you smile ?
    	So let's not wrap this all up in rhetoric about " artistic 
    vision " or evil " commercial " decisions. All us DEC Disney dweebs
    sometime get so involved in our arguments about the parks that we 
    lose sight of who Disney really created theme parks for. I mean, 
    they're not specifically for us earnestly nostalgic adults. They're 
    also for teenagers and families with small kids. These are people who
    don't concern themselves with the purity or the artistic intentions of
    the parks. They're just looking for a good time. 
    	And -- if you were ten years old again -- which would sound better 
    to you : A theme park where you could see all your old favorite Disney
    characters OR a theme park where you could see all your old favorite 
    Disney characters AND the Muppets AND Indiana Jones AND the " Star
    Wars " characters AND the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles ?
    
    	No doubt I'll get notes for floating this point of view. Well, let
    the debate begin :
    
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    	Quickly touching on a related subject, I know a lot of you were
    upset at the idea of " Hollywoodland " being built at Disneyland in 
    the late '90s. Well, would it help to know that the Anaheim park will
    be the last Disney theme park to get its own clone of the studio theme
    park ?  You see, negotiations are currently underway between the Disney
    Company and Oriental Land Ltd. ( The company that actually owns Tokyo
    Disneyland. They pay Disney a licensing fee on each of the characters 
    and attractions they use at the site ) to build a Japanese version of 
    the studio theme park. According to the tenative plan, the oriental
    version of the studio theme park would be built on a plot of land right
    next door to Tokyo Disneyland. The new park should open sometime in 1994.
    	Meanwhile, Eisner has also announced that the Disney Company wants
    to build a studio theme park as part of its EuroDisneyland vacation complex.
    According to this plan, EuroDisneyland will open to the public in 1992,
    with the studio theme park -- a seperated gated attraction, not an
    additional " land " that'll be tacked on to the existing park -- not
    scheduled to open 'til sometime in 1996.
    	So, judging by these tenative construction schedules, Disneyland will
    be the last park on the planet to get its own " Great Movie Ride." Given
    Dave's dislike for interchangable attractionsbeing built  at the parks, I'm
    sure he'll have lots to say about this last bit of news.
    
    	-------------------------------------------------------------
    
    	Speaking of which, Dave, I was looking over your previous replies
    and was puzzled by one reference. You said that Tony Baxter had been 
    behind the design work on several " dubious additions " to Disneyland.
    " Dubious " ?! What attractions specifically are we talking about 
    here ? Big Thunder Mountain Railway ? The Fantasyland make-over ? I'd
    really like to know what you're talking about.
    
    	----------------------------------------------------------------
    
    	Well, that's enough for tonight. Hope I haven't stirred up too 
    much of a hornet's nest here. ( Yeah, right .. How am I doing on the
    sincerity meter ? )
    
    	           Looking forward to your rabid replies,
                                  I am,
    	               yours with proof of purchase,
    
    				Robespierre
                     

    
    	Okay, just spoke with a friend who's works as an Imagineer for 
    the Disney Company and he gave me the latest scoop on what's going 
    down in Anaheim :
    
    	1) " Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln " will stay right where it is.
    The out-pouring of negative publicity Disneyland received when word 
    leaked out that " Great Moments " would be leaving the Main Street Opera 
    house to make way for the Muppet 3-D movie was so great ( Supposedly, they 
    were logging a 1000 phone calls a day at City Hall protesting Abe's
    proposed plug pulling ) that the Disney Company backed down. There's no
    word yet about how this will effect the Muppets' scheduled January
    debut at the park -- but my friend said the Imagineers are really 
    scrambling, trying to find up a different place on the Anaheim property to
    quickly slap up a Muppet movie theater.
    
    	2) In spite of the hype for Disneyland's 35th birthday celebration, 
    the daily " Party Gras " parade and " Dick Tracy Musical Revue", there
    was evidently a noticeable drop in attendence at Disneyland this summer.
    Though the Disney Company never officially releases attendance figure for
    its parks, word has come out of Burbank that Disneyland's attendance
    was off by 10 % this summer ( Though my Imagineer friend has heard 
    rumors that attendance may have been off by as much as 20 - 25 % ). Why 
    the slump ? Actually, there are a couple of factors that are taking the
    blame.
    
    	A) The continual annual jump in admission prices has made a lot of
    Orange County locals think twice about spending a day at the park.
    	B) This summer, Southern California had one of its hottest summers
    on record. There was one two week period where the temperature rarely
    dipped below 100 degrees. Consequently, this made for lousy " theme 
    park visiting " weather.
    	C) Last year, Disneyland opened " Splash Mountain. " This new thrill
    ride compelled millions of people to visit the park, driving Disneyland's
    1989 attendence figures to record highs. This year, with no new attractions
    opening, people didn't find it as necessary to drive on out to Anaheim and
    seeing what was doing at Disneyland. ( Yet another reason why the Disney
    Company is anxious to find a place to put that Muppet 3D movie in their
    Anaheim park. Without a new attraction, 1991 might be worse that 1990.)
    	D) To make way for its " Dick Tracy Musical Revue, " Disneyland
    shut down its Videopolis dance stage. Seeing as this high-tech dance 
    club had become a big social center for Orange County teenagers over
    the past five years, these teens went elsewhere when " Dick Tracy "
    took the stage.
    	All these factors -- plus the sky rocketing price of gas -- have
    Disney executives concerned. Right now, they're considering a lot of 
    different ideas to boost attendance at the park in '91. Among the ideas
    under consideration are " Disney Value Days," which means lower
    admission prices for guests on days when the park is traditionally not
    very busy, as well as several other special promotions.
    
    	3) People who visited Disneyland this summer were surprised to
    find a blank spot in Fantasyland where the " Dumbo " ride used to be.
    Why did Disney pull this favorite old attraction out of the park this
    spring ? Well, it seems that an incredibly obese woman was riding in 
    one of the elephants earlier this year, when the steel arm that held 
    up her vehicle up in the air suddenly gave way and crashed to the ground.
    ( What happened ? The engineers who investigated the accident blamed the
    vehicle's crash on metal fatigue -- though there were some unkind mumbling
    about " the Jumbo who broke Dumbo." )
    	 Anywho, the heavy-set woman wasn't really hurt by the crash. She
    recieved some bruised ribs from hitting the side of the vehicle when
    her " Dumbo " hit the ground. Even so, Disney had her taken by ambulance
    to a nearby hospital to be examined. ( After Disney determined that this
    large lady wasn't severely injured, they moved quickly to minimize
    the damage to Disney's squeaky clean image. They offered to pick up the
    full cost of the woman's hospital visit and convolescences. Disney also
    gave her a lifetime pass to all of the Disney parks -- in addition to a
    tidy little financial sum -- if she agreed not to talk to the press
    about the incident. The lady happily complied, and -- as a result -- 
    little was heard about this incident outside of Southern California. )
    	Anywho, even though the engineers told the Disney Company that the
    " Dumbo " crash had been a freak accident, Michael and his lawyers took
    no chances. The " Dumbo " ride was shut down the second the accident 
    occurred. The next day, the attraction was pulled out of the park and
    reassembled backstage -- where extensive tests were run on the other arms
    of the ride, to see if any of the other " Dumbos " were getting ready to
    crash. Visitors who came to Fantasyland looking to ride " Dumbo " in
    the months thereafter only found the fountain that served as the base
    for the attraction.
    	Though the engineer's endless tests determined that the only reason
    " Dumbo " has crashed was metal fatigue on one arm of the attraction, 
    Disney is taking no chances. So, in November, the " Dumbo " ride will 
    re-appear in Fantasyland -- only this won't be the version of the 
    attraction that was pulled out of the park last spring. Instead, the
    Disney company will be installing the " Dumbo " ride that had
    originally been built for EuroDisneyland. ( Oddily enough, this new 
    version of this favorite old attraction will make for much shorter 
    lines for this attraction. You see, the old version only had 10
    elephants to ride. The new version has 16 different " Dumbos " ready
    to take off. ) There's no official word on when installation of the 
    new " Dumbo " will begin, but it's expected that the attraction will
    be up and running by Thanksgiving.
    
    	4) Oh -- and for those of you who expressed concern about the 
    fairly violent storyline proposed for the " Alien Encounter "
    attraction that supposed to be built as part of Disneyland's new
    Tomorrowland. Well, word comes out of Glenadle -- when Disney's
    Imagineering headquarters are located -- that Michael Eisner and 
    George Lucas both thought the first version of the script for this
    attraction was " way too violent." So, the writers are back to work,
    trying to come up with a " suspenseful but not gorey " script for
    this attraction. ( You see, you all got excited for nothing. Try to
    keep this in mind the next I post information in here from the 
    Imagineers, okay ? ) 
    
    	That's it for now. Any comments, folks ?
    
    				Robespierre
     
    	

    As I recall the numbers from a few years ago, the vast majority
    (70-80%??) of people visiting DL were day visits from within 70-100
    miles. Anyone know the real numbers? 

    BTW since I believe CA is like Mass and will sell a computer listing of
    car registration and owner addresses, I wonder if Disney does computer
    matching to plot home adress? Toss in 9-digit ZIP with Census/IRS data
    and Disney has an incrediable target marketing opportunity.
    
    mike

    Dole Whip revisited!
    
    Where did the Dole Whip stand at Disneyland go??
    
    I was there in July, and there it was... gone!
    
    Any clues!?
    
    Derek

    As a local, I would like to confirm the points in .109 regarding the
    drop off in attendance. It was too damn hot this summer, I didn't have
    enough money, not that many new attractions anyway.
    
    But what local in their right mind goes in the summer, the fall is a
    lot nicer, hell even the winter, when its's 72 degrees, or maybe even
    85 and the air is clean (sorta). And...the lines are smaller.
    
    Shutting down videopollis was a dumb idea, very dumb. It was always
    packed when I was there, the kids really enjoyed it.
    
    Dave 

As another local the summer is too hot to go to a place
where everything is pavement.  Summer is for the mountains
or the beach.  I did go once during the summer, but the
lines were long.  We went last Sunday and there was a big
difference.  My daughter actually got a winning ticket and
got a chance to play the "Dream Machine".  We also found
that during the school year if one goes on the weekend
that Sunday is less crowded than Saturday.


Bill

    After watching the "Civil War" film on PBS, I'm sure that Mr. Lincoln
    will never leave or even be removed temporarily from Disneyland.
    
    The film itself, was a spectacular achievement in film, at least I
    thought so.
    
    Dave
    
    

I was at Disneyland this last Sunday (30-Dec-1990) and all rides
except the Steam Train that circles Disneyland was in operation.
Yes folks, Dumbo is back.  The line for Dumbo was at least 45 minutes.
Most rides had long lines this day, but if you came back later they were
shorter.  An example was Star Tours.  The line was 1 hr 45 min at opening
but at 5 PM the line was about 30 minutes.  Everyone that was in 
Southern California for the Rose Bowl seemed to be at Disneyland.

Bill

    
    
    			WARNING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    	The following note contains an excerpt from William Poundstone's
    book, " Bigger Secrets " ( 1986 Houghton Mifflin Company ). It will
    detail how many of the illusions in Disneyland ( as well as Walt
    Disney World ) 's Haunted Mansion are pulled off. If you don't want 
    to find out about the machinery behind the magic, exit this note now !
    
    	          YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    	The following excerpt is reprinted here without permission.
    
    	 I REALLY MEAN IT !!!! THIS IS YOUR LAST CHANCE !!!!!!!!
    
    			Okay. Here goes ...
    
    	HAUNTED MANSION
    	DISNEYLAND/WALT DISNEY WORLD
    	ANAHEIM, CALIFORNIA/LAKE BUENA VISTA, FLORIDA
    
    	The Haunted Mansion is a showplace of spookhouse special effects.
    Many are found in similiar rides elsewhere. From the outside, the
    mansion is a three-story French Colonial affair. People are admitted
    in groups of about 50 at a time. You walk from an entrance foyer into 
    an octagonal room with large portraits on the wall. When the entire 
    group is inside, the door closes flush with the adjoining walls.
    	A strangely familiar voice welcomes you to the Haunted Mansion.
    The voice is that of Paul Frees, who did Boris Badenov in the Rocky 
    and Bullwinkle cartoons. ( Frees is also the narrator of the Abraham
    Lincoln animatron show at Disneyland. ) Frees milks lines like " Every
    room has wall-to-wall creeps and hot and cold running chills " for all
    they're worth. The floor of the octagonal room slowly sinks to simulate
    a stretching room. Then a door opens and everyone walks into a hallway.
    	THE ROTATING BUSTS : The first interesting effect is at the end of
    this hall. Two somber busts of a funny pale orangish color are set into
    the wall. One of the busts has a neck slightly thicker than its head
    and a Moe Howard haircut. From a distance the heads look like simple
    decor, but as you move closer, you notice out of the corner of your
    eye that they seem to follow you. If you move to the right, the heads
    turn to the right. If you move back and forth, the heads rotate in 
    perfect step. It's one thing to have a mechanical head rigged to
    swivel, but the busts seem to know when you're looking at them. Some
    think they're holograms. They're not.
    	The secret ? Reach over and touch the heads. They're hollow --
    inverted like a death mask. The noses, rather than being the part
    closest to you, are the part farthest away, and so on.
    	The illumination comes from behind the translucent masks, so you
    don't see any telltale shadows. You normally don't expect to see
    anything so bizarre as an inside-out face, so you interpret them as
    normal, three dimensional faces. This confuses the perspective. Instead
    of realizing that you are seeing different views of an inside-out face,
    you percieve a solid face rotating.
    	Once you know the heads are inside out, you can usually see them as
    they really are. It helps to duck and look at them from a low angle.
    The ( convex ) 3-D effect is surprisingly prominent even in
    photographs.
    	THE TALKING HEADS : Part of the Haunted Mansion is a real ride, a
    train of tunnel-of-love cars that go by fabricated scenes. Among the
    exhibits are spectacularly realistic talking heads. The first is a
    woman's head in a crystal ball. She is saying something, though I
    couldn't make out what. Later there is a gallery of singing statues. 
    They are busts of men, character-actor types, mugging as you pass.
    	The heads are cadaverous white. The facial expressions change, the
    mouths contort, the lips move as they speak. The illusion of a real, 
    living head is much stronger than with the two rotating, inverted
    heads. Nonetheless, you gather that they are not real heads with the
    bodies hidden. Even Disneyland wouldn't hire someone to grimace all 
    day.
    	That there aren't any human actors inside the heads is demonstrated
    by a final, tiny animated head as you leave the Haunted Mansion on a 
    moving walkway. This is a female head about four inches long on a
    doll's body. Perched on a tombstone, it wears a white wedding gown and
    holds a bouquet of dead-looking flowers. This head spouts some kind of
    goodbye message in a half-intelligble voice.
    	The animated heads are simply movies. Actors were hired to mug for
    the camera with their heads immobile, and a short black-and-white film 
    was shot of each head. The films play in endless loops, projected on an
    essentially formless white head. I think there's a suggestion of a
    nose, but that's it. You can see this formless head if you shine a
    flashlight on the heads or photograph them with a flash.
    	I snapped a flash picture of the last head as I passed it. When
    the picture was developed, it showed a head with much-faded features
    on the doll's body.
    	This effect seems to be too costly for most other amusement parks.
    Few organizations other than Disney have the resources to produce short
    films just for a haunted house ride.
    	CABARET DU NEANT : The Haunted Mansion has a ballroom with an 
    assortment of animated ghosts eating at a table or dancing. The ghosts 
    are a pale greenish color. You can see furniture and other objects
    through them, and one ghost floats high above the table. Two paintings
    on the wall come to life are one figure draws a gun and shoots the man
    in the adjacent painting. The ghosts' motion is more animatronish than 
    human.
    	This effect dates back to the 1890s, at least. It was used in a 
    sideshow presented in Paris and New York called the Cabaret Du Neat, or
    Tavern of the Dead, and is still known by that name.
    	The secret is a large pane of invisible glass. In the Haunted
    Mansion, you observed the ghost from a moving train about fifteen feet
    above the floor of the ballroom. Directly below the train is a chamber
    containing animated robots. There is also a chamber above the train 
    cars; it contains the animatrons for the ghosts above eye level ( The
    floating lady and the dueling paintings ). The invisible glass runs
    from the floor up to the ceiling. There is a giveaway : If you look 
    closely, you can see a fake spider on the glass pane.
    	The part of the chamber you see contains only the furniture. The 
    animatrons, out of sight, are illuminated with a greenish light. The
    ghosts are the reflections of these animatrons on the secret glass
    pane. The viewing angle and relative positions of the animatrons and 
    the furniture are such that the ghosts appear to be seated,
    superimposed on a painting, and so on.
    	CHEESECLOTH GHOSTS : Not all the ghosts are reflections. At one
    point, swarms of indistinct ghosts rise from a graveyard. They are the
    same greenish color as the ballroom ghosts, but they involve a
    different M.O. These ghosts are rounded Arp forms with no internal
    detail. They look gauzy.
    	That's how they are made. A projector shines ghostly images on 
    suspended sheets of a cheesecloth-like fabric. The fabric is a dark
    color so that it won't be noticed where it's not directly illuminated. 
    Victorian mediums pulled this same trick to impress clients at seances.
    	HITCHHIKING GHOSTS : The climax of the Haunted Mansion comes at the
    end of the train ride. Frees's voice warns ; " Beware of hitchhiking
    ghosts. " You coast by a diorama of three animatron ghosts thumbing for
    a ride. The cars turn a corner and you pass a gallery mirrors. In the 
    mirrors you see a reflection of yourself, your car, and a green ghost
    apparently seated next to you. Everyone turns his head to see if the 
    ghost is really in the car next to him. It isn't; it's just in the 
    reflection.
    	The ghost is always in the center of the two person car. When two
    people are seated normally, the ghost appears to be between them. If 
    you sit in the middle, the ghost face is superimposed on your face. The
    hitchhiking ghosts are a two-way mirror effect. They are projected from
    behind the mirror so as to merge with the normal reflected image. The
    only original twist is getting the ghosts to move with the moving car.
    The projectors must be synchronised to move with the cars on a parallel
    track behind the mirrors.
    
         ---------------------------------------------------------
    
    	That's it for the book's info on the Haunted Mansion, If you want
    to learn more about other things you're not supposed to know about -- the 
    real ingrediants in Oysters Rockefeller, the secret rituals of Yale's
    Skull and Bones Club, how Doug Henning cuts all those ladies in half --
    chase down " Bigger Secrets " ( Or Mr. Poundstone's earlier book, 
    " Big Secrets " ).
    
    						JRH             

    Since approximately 70% of Disneyland visitors are people who live in
    Southern California, Disneyland recently announced a special admission
    price for Southern Californians.  All you have to do is show them you
    live in the area by presenting a piece of i.d. which shows your zip
    code, and you are admitted for $20.00 -- a $5-6 savings off normal
    admission.
    
    According to several people I spoke with who work for The Walt Disney
    Company (I'm the Sales Support Specialist assigned to this account),
    attendance has been down, and they didn't want the recent increase in
    the price of admission to discourage people who live in Southern
    California from visiting the park.
    
    It has not yet been determined just how long this special offer will
    last... probably until business picks up again in the spring-summer
    timeframe.
    
    By the way, a friend of mine brought out of town guests to the park,
    and they allowed her to buy the $20.00 tickets for everyone in her
    party!  Good deal!
    
    -Colleen

    
    	Well, just got off the phone with a friend that works at Disneyland
    and here's the latest scoop on what's going on this year in Anaheim ;
    
    	1) NO MUPPETS OR INDIANA JONES THIS YEAR -- Because of the stink 
    Southern Californians made about the Muppet 3D movie replacing " Great
    Moments with Mr. Lincoln " at the Main Street Opera House, " Kermit the
    Frog presents Muppetvision in 3D " will NOT be debuting at Disneyland
    this year. Though this attraction is still scheduled to open this June
    in Orlando at the Disney-MGM Studio Theme Park, there's no official
    word as to when Kermit and crew will begin appearing in Anaheim. ( Off
    the record, there's a possiblity the film might begin being shown in 
    Anaheim in early 1992. But that depends on how the audiences take to 
    the 3D movie in Orlando. If it's a big hit there, it'll open in Anaheim
    no later than January 1992. If it's greeted somewhat luke-warmly --
    like the " Body Wars " attraction at EPCOT Center's " Wonders of Life "
    pavilion -- Disney will be in no rush to build one for California. )
    
    	Likewise, Disney has put its plans to open a " Young Indiana Jones
    Epic Stunt Spectacular " attraction on hold. Though the attraction 
    was supposed to be built on all that open woodland this summer behind
    Frontierland's Big Thunder Ranch, Disney and George Lucas have put a 
    temporary halt on the project. Why for ? Rumor has it that Lucas
    wasn't pleased with the Wild West theming the stunt show was supposed 
    to have. He wanted the attraction to better showcase the adventures of
    Young Indiana Jones, a character that Lucas will launch in an hour-long
    adventure TV program to be seen each week on ABC TV starting this
    September. So the script for the show is undergoing revisions. In fact,
    the whole attraction is undergoing a rethink. Now, supposedly, Lucas
    and Eisner want to create a Indiana Jones stunt show that's almost a
    duplicate of Orlando's Studio Theme Park version -- featuring more of 
    a jungle setting. This would necessitate locating the stunt theater 
    somewhere around Adventure;and, a part of the park that really cramped
    already. So, all this rethinking means lots of redesigning .. Which 
    means the earliest that you'll be able to see Indiana Jones in Anaheim 
    is probably the summer of 1992.
    
    	So what will Disney be presenting at Disneyland to lure in visitors
    who've already been to the park ? Well, starting in March ( March 15th,
    to be exact ), the Videopolis stage will no longer be where Dick Tracy 
    hangs out. It'll become the home of " The Disney Afternoon Live at 
    Disneyland " show. Three or four times a day, there'll be a half hour
    musical show presented here, featuring all the characters from " Gummi
    Bears," " Duck Tales, " " Rescue Rangers, " and " Tale Spin." The rest
    of the time, Disneyland visitors will be able to find the costume
    characters from the " Disney Afternoon " show wandering around, posing 
    for pictures. ( Folks who've been to both stateside Disney parks will
    find this area very similiar to WDW's Mickey's Birthday/Starland. ) 
    Disney expects that this new show will be very popular with the small
    fry.
    
    	To draw in the adults, Disney plans to hold a " Great American 
    Celebration " this summer at the park. Each week, the park will
    celebrate another aspect of Americana. So, one weekend, there'll be
    a baseball theme -- with a huge basecard convention and baseball 
    players on hand to sign autographs --; and the next weekend will 
    celebrate music, etc. ( I know, I know. This idea sounds kind of lame.
    But -- what the hey -- it's only February. They'll probably come up
    with some really exciting ideas for shows by the time the " Great 
    American Celebration " officially kicks off on June 22nd. )
    
    	After that, well .. August 29th means that Disney will be holding
    its second annual Pigskin Classic, the pre-season football game between
    the two top ranked college teams. And -- sometime in September --
    they'll officially be breaking ground for the park's long-overdue
    Tomorrowland makeover.
    
    	Beyond that, well ... If you've already been to Disneyland, this
    may not be the year to go rushing back to the park. Better you wait a
    year or two 'til there really some new attractions worth seeing. Better
    you should go to Universal Studios Hollywood and check out the new
    " E.T. " Adventure attraction, the " I Love Lucy " Museum, the 
    " Stairway to the Stars " access way from the attraction area to the
    backlot, as well as the newly rebuilt backlot. Then, NEXT YEAR, go back
    to Disney. By then, there might be something new worth seeing.
    
    					JRH
    

    RE: .118

    So how do these delays and "rethinks" affect the planned Hollywoodland
    additions, etc.?  I was under the impression from your posting in .98
    that the Muppet's show and the Hollywoodland/Dick Tracy additions were
    going in about the same time (or at least in a coordinated manner)
    around 1993-1995?  Any word from your source on that stuff being put on
    hold or being re-thought in light of this news?  Also, if the Indy stunt
    show *did* go in behind Big Thunder Mountain would it replace the outdoor
    western barbeque (BBQ) place that is there now (I *think* it's Hunt's
    food pavilion...someone help me here).


    Thanks for keeping us posted,
    David.

    
    	RE: - 1
    
    		Yeah, all these delays and rethinks are impacting on the
    original plans for Disneyland's " Disney Decade " makeover. Of course,
    there are quite a few other factors effecting what will be built in the 
    park as well.
    		Take -- for example -- how a film's box office performance
    effects whether the Disney Company's decisions to go forward with 
    attractions based on that film. This time last year, the Disney Company
    was very optimistic about " Dick Tracy. " They figured that the film 
    would be a sure-fire smash at the box office last summer, so they were
    already planning on making a sequel to the film as well as building a
    huge ride-through attraction based on the films as part of Disneyland's
    Hollywoodland expansion.
    		Well, " Dick Tracy " comes out in June and -- instead of 
    going through the roof -- it does .. okay. Not great, just okay. ( In
    fact, I've heard that Disney may have even lost money on " Dick Tracy,"
    at least during its stateside release to theaters. Evidently, the film
    itself wasn't too expensive, but Disney supposedly spend twice the
    movie's production costs promoting the film. As of September, " Dick 
    Tracy " was still supposed to be in the red. Though, I imagine -- what
    with the overseas and video release -- the film must be in the black
    by now. ) As a result, suddenly Disney was not so hot to do a sequel to
    the film. And the " Dick Tracy Crimestoppers " attraction ? ... Well, 
    in spite of all its proposed snazzy interactive machinery, I wouldn't
    expect this attraction to ever make it off the drawing board.
    	On the other hand, if a film is much more successful than they had
    anticipated it would be, the Disney Company will go completely
    overboard to capitialize on it. Take -- for example -- " The Little
    Mermaid. " Argueably Disney's most successful animated motion picture,
    ' The Little Mermaid " turned out to be an even bigger hit on video.
    Little kids love Ariel and Sebastion. They can't get enough of them.
    	So, this year, in addition to the original " Little Mermaid " 
    video tape and other related mercahndise, there's also a " Sebastion 
    Sings " tape for sale. This features the actor who did the voice for
    that funky little crab -- Sam Wright ? -- singing other calypso
    flavored songs. And there's a " Little Mermaid " sequence in the 
    latest " Walt Disney World on Ice " extravaganza. And -- come this
    fall -- there'll be a " Little Mermaid " cartoon running on Saturday
    morning. ( Disney currently shopping this around to all the networks.
    The one that's willing to pay the highest price gets the show. As I
    understand, ABC as the inside track. )
    	Now, in the parks, this sort of success means that -- sometime in
    next three years -- we'll see a " Little Mermaid " attraction built in
    both Disney parks. Modeled after " Peter Pan's Flight, " guests will
    climb into conch shells and join Sebastion on a tour " Under the Sea."
    You'll float through Ariel's treasure cave ( Where an audio animatronic
    Ariel will sing " Part of Your World " ), barely escape Ursula the Sea
    Witch as you journey through her cave, then float past chorus after 
    chorus of animated fish during the ride's finale, as the Imagineers
    recreated the " Under the Sea " production number. 
    	In Disneyland, this will be built as part of the " Mickey's
    Birthdayland " addition to the park. ( Yes, Anaheim's now going to get 
    its own version of this WDW favorite. It'll be located between the 
    Videopolis Stage area and the " It's a Small World " attraction. In 
    fact, a lot of this area will be located beyond the train tracks --
    outside of the berm. ) At Walt Disney World, well ... the " Little
    Mermaid " ride will either be built to the left of " 20,000 Leagues 
    Under the Sea, " ( Which means the Fantasyland Stage as well as the 
    Pinocchio Haus Restaurant's days are numbered ) or to the right of
    " 20,000 Leagues. " ( This would involve a major shuffling of the
    elements that make up " Mickey's Starland " as it stands right now.
    But -- given that most of the structures that make up this part of 
    the Magic Kingdom were design as temporary buildings -- this shouldn't
    be too big a deal. So don't be surprised if Mickey's house moves from 
    one side of the street to the other, okay ? ) Both of these should be
    open to the public by the spring of 1993.
    	After that, well .. It's going to take the Disney Company 'til 
    1994 to get the new Tomorrowland completed. Then, in 1995, they'll
    be busy celebrating the park's 40th anniversary. After that, 
    construction will begin in earnest on Disneyland's Hollywoodland 
    addition.
    	Right now, the only rides and attractions that are definitely 
    slated for Anaheim's version of the Disney-MGM Studio Theme Park 
    are : 1) A revamped version of " The Great Movie Ride, " 2) A 
    revamped version of " Superstar Television, " 3) the simulator
    based attraction, " Toontown Trolley, " currently under construction
    at Disney-MGM, and 4) the more traditionally based ride-through 
    attraction, " Baby Herman's Runaway Baby Buggies, " which is also
    sceduled to be added to Disney-MGM in the not-so-distant future.
    What's now supposed to built in the huge space the " Dick Tracy 
    Crimestoppers " attraction was supposed to occupy ... I don't 
    know. I have heard that they'd like to have a Californian version 
    of the " Prime Time Cafe " as part of Hollywoodland, and there was
    talk of another traditional ride-through attraction -- something 
    similiar to " Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, " featuring Benny the Cab -- 
    at one point. But -- right now -- well, a lot of this stuff's up 
    in the air.
    	Oh -- to answer your other question, Dave -- yes, the " Young
    Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Spectacular " was going to be built just
    behind the Big Thunder Ranch restaurant - petting zoo. As I understtod
    it, that area was going to remain just as it was, with the entrance
    area to the " Epic Stunt Spectacular " theater being located to the 
    left of Big Thunder Ranch. If anything, Disney wouldn't have torn 
    Big Thunder Ranch down, they would have expanded it -- incorporating 
    some of the theming from the " Young Indiana Jones " show as well as
    adding additional seating to the restaurant area, to handle all the 
    additional people wwho would have ended up eating here as a result
    of attending the stunt show.
    	Now -- what with the rethink of this attraction and its potential
    relocation to Adventureland -- well, Big Thunder Ranch is safe -- for 
    now. But Eisner's anxious to built SOMETHING on that primo five acres
    of land just behind the ranch. Mickey's Birthdayland will use some of
    that, but ... Well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
    
    	Any other questions ? 
    
    						JRH

    
    	Even more info continues to trickle out of California, regarding
    the Walt Disney Company's plans to upgrade and expand its Anaheim park.
    The following article appeared in today's edition of the Wall Street
    Journal. It is reprinted here without permission :
    
    WALT DISNEY CO. 
    
    	Purchase Reported of Tract Costing Firm $ 30 Million
    
    	Yesterday, the Los Angeles Times reported that the Walt Disney Company
    paid $ 30 million for a 23-acre tract of land near its Disneyland theme 
    park. A spokesman for Disney refused to confirm the report, saying only 
    that the company " is working hard to finalize our preliminary plan for 
    a Disneyland expansion. " The spokesman said the company hopes to
    announce its plans soon.
    	In August, Disney unveiled preliminary plans for its third major
    U.S. park development, " Port Disney, " a proposed $ 2.3 billion
    waterfront resort in Long Beach, a city 20 miles south of downtown
    Los Angeles. But Disney said it will build that development only if it 
    can arrange the right deal with government officials. At the time, 
    Disney also expressed interest in expanding its Disneyland park in 
    Anaheim.
    	Jeff Logsdon, a securities analyst for Seidler Amdec Inc., said 
    that the Anaheim land could be used even if Disney decided not to
    expand there. " It appaers that Disney wants to keep negotiations
    going with both Anaheim and Long Beach. The way to get the most 
    adventageous deal ( from local governments ) is to keep all options
    open, to keep both sides believing that the decision could go either
    way. "
    
    	--------------------------------------------------------
    
    	Okay, why is Disney looking for more land around its Anaheim 
    park. Lots of reason. Right now, they've only got one official hotel
    -- the Disneyland hotel -- connected to the property. They'd like to 
    have a few more hotels of their own on the monorail loop.
    	Plus they're looking to move a lot of the support facilities for
    the park -- ex : the administration office, the parade storage sheds, 
    etc. -- outside of the berm, which would make room for all this new 
    construction they'd like to get underway. Take -- for example --
    Hollywoodland. Not a single attraction can be built until Disney's
    administration offices are relocated and the existing buildings are
    torn down.
    	This land purchase -- one of many Disney supposed has in the work
    around its Anaheim park -- will add greatly to the " breathing space "
    the Disney Company has around Disneyland. Now that they've acquired a
    little " elbow room, " you're going to Disneyland's rehab begin in 
    earnest. By the end of the '90s, it'll be -- for better or worse --
    like a whole new park.
    
    

    RE: .120 and .121

>   In Disneyland, this will be built as part of the " Mickey's
>   Birthdayland " addition to the park. ( Yes, Anaheim's now going to get 
>   its own version of this WDW favorite. It'll be located between the 
>   Videopolis Stage area and the " It's a Small World " attraction. In 
>   fact, a lot of this area will be located beyond the train tracks --
>   outside of the berm. )

    Whoa!  How do they plan to do this?  I take it the submarine pens, etc.
    that are back there now will be moved?  Furthermore, I thought the berm
    was necessary not only to fulfill Walt's edict about "I don't want the
    public to see the world in which they live when they are in the park"
    but for sound insulation as well (I-5, as we know, runs right behind
    the park).  I am starting to knee-jerk about this but I will resist the
    urge to launch into another tirade.

    And about this land acquisition...what parcel of land did they buy?  I
    did not remember anything being open around the park other than a small
    patch next to the Disneyland Hotel (which is now a motorhome campground
    owned by Disney).  Or has it been too long since I was on West Street
    and Ball Road (forget Katella and Harbor, there isn't an inch of
    undeveloped land there)?


    David.

    
    	RE : - 1
    
    		" Submarine pens " ?! Dave, we're talking about the 
    land behind the berm next to the " Small World " ride building.
    There's nothing back there but a few paint shops. The maintenance
    pens for the submarine ( as well as the monorail barn ) are located
    about a quarter of a mile away to the west, beyond the railroad track
    in Tomorrowland.
    		And as for Walt's edict about never building-beyond-the-
    berm, well ... That's also about to bite the dust in both of Disney's
    stateside parks. A goodly portion of the Disneyland incarnation of
    " Mickey's Birthdayland " is supposed to be built beyond Fantasyland's
    berm. ( In fact, construction crews are already at work in Anaheim, 
    digging out chunks of the berm to create an entrance area to this 
    new part of the park. This " rabbit hole " will be used mostly by
    construction crews for the next year or so. But -- after that --
    the general public will use the entrance area to go under the 
    Disneyland railroad track bed and head into " Mickey's Birthdayland." )
    And -- in Orlando's Magic Kingdom -- the Frontierland Railroad 
    station was torn down this fall to make way for Walt Disney World's
    version of " Splash Mountain. " Most of this attraction will be 
    located in an area previously off-limits to the public, just beyond
    the berm ( What was back here before " Splash Mountain " ?  Well, 
    this was where the parade float storage shed as well as several 
    rehearsal halls were located. This is also where the trailers where
    the " Guest Band " -- you know, that high school band that you 
    occassionally see marching down Main Street U.S.A. ahead of the
    daily character parade -- is supposed to hang out. All of this 
    building are scheduled to be torn down, their contents to be 
    stored in all-new buildings to be build just behind the " Pirates
    of the Carribbean " ride building. )
    	As I understand it, in spite of the fact that they'll be building
    outside of the berm, the Imagineers still plan to protect Disneyland's
    integrity by insuring that -- even in the new parts of the parks,
    guests will never be able to see the outside world. How they'll
    accomplish this, I'm not exactly sure. Oversized buildings, maybe.
    The use of forced prespective ? Or maybe they'll just install a 
    berm beyond the berm. 
    	As for the land acquisition announced yesterday in the Wall 
    Street Journal ( By way of the Los Angeles Times ), Disney's being 
    very closed mouth about where this new piece of property is located.
    ( The reason behind this is that they're still in negotiations with
    several motel owners around their Anaheim property. They don't want
    to tip their hand about where they want to build their new " lands "
    or resort hotel in California, thereby giving the land owners the upper 
    hand when it comes to setting a price for their property. They'll 
    keep everyone in the dark 'til they've bought all the property they
    want. Then -- and only then -- will we officially know whether this
    property is. ) However, according to my sources in California, Dave's
    on the right track : This newly purchased property is just a hop, 
    skip and a jump away from the campground Disney owns in the area.
    Supposedly, Disney's trying to snap up all the property between these
    two property, thereby double the amount of land they'll own directly
    behind Disneyland. The master plan is that this property would be 
    used to build new maintenance areas, vehicle storage sheds for the 
    park, etc. with a huge " Contemporary Resort " esque hotel arching 
    over all of this stuff. When this is done, all the land behind the 
    berm between the park and the new hotel will be developed as all-new
    " lands " for the park ... Of course, all of this is dependent of 
    Disney getting its hot little hands on all of the property that 
    other people own between these two point. It won't be easy or cheap
    to do. 
    		That's all I know for now. But let me make a few phone
    calls and see if I can get some additional info. Plus -- anyone from
    Digital's Californian offices can help out by watching the local 
    papers for news of new land acquisitions. Chances are this news will
    turn up on Orange County business pages long before Disney's able to
    get an official report out on the land purchase.
    
    					JRH
    
    Disney

    
    	We've had additional confirmation on that rumor that the Walt
    Disney Company is planning to expand Disneyland beyond its current
    existing borders. The following article appeared in yesterday's
    New York Times. It is reprinted here without permission :
    
                	EXPANSION PLANS FOR DISNEYLAND
    
    	LOS ANGELES, Feb. 13 ( Reuters ) -- The Walt Disney Company said
    it would soon announce preliminary plans for the expansion of its
    original Disneyland park. For about two years now, Disney has been
    studying plans for a second park in Southern California, possibly next
    to Disneyland in Anaheim or near its Queen Mary ship in Long Beach.
    	The company declined to comment on a report in the Los Angeles
    Times on Tuesday that Disney had bought a 23-acre parcel in Anaheim
    for $30.2 million. The newspaper also reported that Disney was shopping
    for land in Anaheim.
    
    	-----------------------------------------------------------
    
    	Well, this confirms it, folks. Today, I'll make some calls to
    California and see if I can't get some info on just how soon Disney
    plans on making public these preliminary expansion plans. Though, I'll
    bet you we won't hear word one officially 'til Disney has completed
    its acquisitions of all the other parcels around Disneyland they're
    after.
    
    				More news later,
    
    					JRH

    RE: .123

    Er...um...well...

    I knew the Monorail barns were behind the berm (you can see them from
    the Harbor Blvd exit off of I-5 South) and in the corner of
    Tomorrowland, but I thought the submarine pens (and "dry dock" for the
    Fantasyland boats and such) were behind "It's A Small World".  Thanks
    for keeping me honest.


    David.

    
    	Oh, NOW I understand what you're getting at, Dave. Actually, there 
    * IS* a dry dock for Disneyland's boats and submarines in an area behind
    Tomorrowland that borders -- sort of -- on Fantasyland. 
    	Let me see if I better orientate to its whereabouts. Okay, imagine
    that you're standing directly in front of the " It's A Small World "
    ride building toward the back of Fantasyland. To your right is the 
    access road that the Disneyland parades enter and exit the park from.
    To your left is the Videopolis stage area.
    	Okay, now -- about an eighth of a mile to your right, directly 
    behind the Autopia track and the Tomorrowland section of the Disneyland
    railroad is where the dry dock / boat repair area is. ( But how do the 
    submarines get to the drydock if they need to be repaired ? Please
    remember folks that Disneyland's Autopia track is built ON TOP Of 
    the " Voyage Through Liquid Space " ride building. As you look out 
    at the ruins of Atlantis and journey under the South Pole, little
    children are driving under-powered automobiles just ten feet over 
    your head. Scary thought, isn't it ? ... Anyway, when the submarines
    need to be services, they make their way to the drydock via a
    " back door " in the ride building, a tunnel that takes them under
    the railroad tracks and into the repair shop. Ingenious bit of
    planning, eh ? )
    	Anywho, the land that's supposed to be developed for Disneyland's
    " Mickey's Birthdayland " is located to the left of the " It's a Small
    World " ride building, beyond the railroad tracks and behind the berm.
    There's ain't nothing back there but paint shops right now.
    	Any questions ?
    
    					JRH
    

    
    	Okay, folks. The latest word from the Walt Disney Company is that
    we're about a week or so away from the official unveiling of the plans for
    the company's second Anaheim park. However, little tidbits have begun
    to leak out of WDI -- Walt Disney Imagineering -- about the proposed
    park. And -- at the very least -- they are *VERY* intriguing.
    
    	Right now, it appears that the second Anaheim park will be a
    Californian version of EPCOT Center. Right now, there's no word on 
    whether this new park will have a World Showcase, but it most certainly
    will have a Future World. However, this park -- devoted to education
    and science -- will only borrow the best from EPCOT. You'll see a
    reprise of " Journey into Imagination, " " The Living Seas, " as well
    as " The Wonders of Life " pavilion. The rest of the Future World 
    pavilions will be completely revamp, with the new emphasis on
    inter-active hands-on attraction.
    
    	What's really intriguing about the proposed second park is where
    it'll be located. All that land Disney's been buying up around Anaheim
    -- that's mostly been for hotels and parking lots. The new Californian
    Disney park will be built in Disneyland's parking lot ! Under the
    current plan, guests going to either Disney Anaheim park will drive
    into one central parking area. Here, they'll board trams that will 
    take them to a monorail station, which will ferry guests above all 
    that Southern California traffic.
    
    	As the monorail stops, guests will step out into an all new 
    entrance area, featuring fountains and ornate gardens. They'll have
    a choice of going north into Disneyland or south into the Disney park.
    
    	The beauty of building the second park in Disneyland's park area
    is that it also gives Disneyland room to grow. Now Adventureland will
    have the room for its proposed " Temple of Doom " attraction, which --
    up until now -- was going to be built behind, next to as well as on top
    of the Jungle Cruise. And Hollywoodland won't have to be crammed in
    behind Main Street -- but can sprawl out to the north eastern part of
    the property.
    
    	Plus this means the two parks can share administration and support
    facilities, making the move good logistical sense.
    
    	Anyway, this is the latest scuttlebutt coming from Glendale. I'll
    post more as additional info becomes available. Any comments ?
    
    					jrh
     

The new section of Disneyland is "The Disney Afternoon".  See related note
218.*.

It is in front and beside "It's a Small World".  The kids get little
maps of the area and can go from booth to booth stamping their map
with pictures of the characters (Sunni, Chip & Dale, etc.).  The entire
area has little sets where the kids can have their parent take their pictures.
The motor boats in Fantasyland have been renamed to reflect the Gummi Bears
and the motor powered cars next to the boats are now identified with
Chip & Dale Rescue Rangers.  This attraction took the place of Dick Tracy.

My kids went through the area and received all the stamps.  They were
disappointed since there wasn't really a ride.

    
    
    	Well, all you sci-fi fans can take a load off. It appears that
    Disneyland's new Tomorrowland may be a little further off in the future
    that originally announced.
    
    	What's the hold-up. In a nut-shell, Eisner doesn't like the new
    show that the Imagineers have written for the Carousel of Progress
    theater. " P.T. Quantum " -- formerly known as " Plectu's Inter-
    Galactic Musical Revue " -- still featured the same elements : Star
    War-ish robots and aliens performing in a musical comedy revue. But
    Mikey's didn't like it. When the Imagineers did their final pitch 
    for the project, Eisner thought the idea for the show was " cute. "
    However, when he learned that the cost of installing the new show as
    well as rehabbing the theater-go-round was somewhere around $ 100
    million, Michael freaked. " Look, for that sort of money, " he
    reportedly said, " I don't want cute. Spectacular, thrilling, yes.
    Cute, no. "
    
    	Why is going to cost so much to put a new show Disneyland's Carousel of
    Progress ? Well -- though it looks solid from the outside -- the
    theater-go-ground is in really rough shape. Anyone who visited 
    " America Sings " during its last year of performances in this theater
    will remember how sluggishly the building turned, how it would come to
    a stop with an awful groaning sound. That's because the massive motor
    that turned the theater was burning out. Today, the motor's completely
    shot and will have to be replaced before any new show can be loaded in 
    the theater-go-round building.
    
    	Now -- take into consideration that the Carousel of Progress was
    originally built back in 1967, when California's fire and seismic
    building codes weren't quite so strict. Given all the work that's being
    down to the interior as well as the exterior of the theater-go-round, 
    the state building inspector says that Disneyland's basically building
    a new building -- so the Carousel of Progress has be brought up to 1991
    code levels.
    
    	To do that, Disneyland's also going to have spend a fortune ridding
    the building of that 1960's era fire retardent material, asbestos. ( The
    Walt Disney Company doesn't like to talk about this, but most of the
    older ride buildings on the property are riddled with the stuff.
    Supposedly, Disney's own safety people have drawn up a plan, whereby
    -- during the slower times of the year -- various attractions will be
    shut down and rid of this cancer causing material. Working by this time
    table, it'll take just shy of a decade to totally rid the park of the 
    stuff. Last year, they did " Pirates of the Carribbean. " The " Haunted
    Mansion " is supposed next on the list ... Anyway ... )
    
    	So Disney has to do all this work just to make the theater-go-
    round operational again as well as bring the building up to health, 
    safety and fire codes. Then -- to make the building look like a massive 
    flying saucer ( Thereby tying in with the new " inter-galactic airport "
    theming of the new Tomorrowland ) -- they were going have spent
    megabucks retro-fitting the exterior of the building.
    
    	And this is all before a single audio animatronic figure is placed
    on stage. And -- given " P.T. Quantum " was supposed to feature a cast 
    of over 100 AA figures -- the price tag just got too big for Eisner,
    particularly for a show that he only thought was " borderline cute. "
    
    	So where does this leave the new Tomorrowland ? In a bit of a hole,
    actually. Given that the " flying saucer " ( AKA the retro-fitted
    Carousel-of-Progress building ) was going to be the largest " new "
    building in the new Tomorrowland, it was to have set the look and the
    tone for this side of the park. All the rides and attractions around
    " P.T. Quantum " were going to take their visual cues from this
    impressive looking building.
    
    	But now that Eisner plugged " P.T. Quantum " 's plug, the
    Imagineers are frantic. Without the new Carousel-of-Progress show
    and building acting as a linch pin for the look and feel for the 
    new Tomorrowland, the redesign of this side of the park just doesn't
    work. ( The Imagineer I spoke with about this used the analogy of
    a " big box, beautifully wrapped, with nothing inside. " ) What makes 
    this doubly difficult is Eisner likes the Imagineers' plans for the
    * outside * of the building. He just doesn't like what they've designed
    to go on the * inside. *
    
    	So the Imagineers are back at the drawing board ( again ! ), 
    trying to come with a sci-fi themed show for the Carousel of Progress.
    ( Senior Imagineer Bruce Gordon recently joked that they should change
    the " We're Imagineering a Brand New Attraction " sign that currently
    stands outside the Carousel-of-Progress building to read " 1-800-NEW-
    IDEA : If you've got an idea -- any idea at all -- what the Imagineers
    should put in this building, call today ! Highly paid creative people
    are standing by ! " ) And -- until they solve the problem of what to 
    put on the theater-go-round, there will be no ( new ) Tomorrow ( land ).
    
    	So, though Disney CEO Michael Eisner -- in his memorable " Disney
    Decade " speech -- claimed that the all - new Tomorrowland would be
    officially opening the summer of 1995 ( Just in time for Disneyland's
    40th anniversary ), Disney officials are now quietly saying that 1996 or 
    1997 now seems more likely. Who knows ? Maybe the Imagineers will come
    up with a new show that excites Eisner this year, so that construction 
    on the new Tomorrowland can underway on schedule. But -- given that it
    took the Imagineers 10 years ( and some 100 different concepts for
    " Carousel-of-Progress " shows ) before they came up with " P.T.
    Quantum " -- I wouldn't hold my breath.
                              

    re: IDEA : If you've got an idea -- any idea at all

    Time for another fake trill ride. Load 1 or 2 people in a simulator
    craft, push it around the corner, crack up the simulation of being in a 
    dog-fight in space for 2.35 minutes, terminate the simulation and push
    the simulator to the exit door. To be fancy and attract the high-school
    crowd, allow the rider to associate their simulation with the group and
    allow multiple guests to fight it out.
    
    mike

Article: 3152
Path: nntpd.lkg.dec.com!news.crl.dec.com!deccrl!decwrl!mips!samsung!usc!orion.oac.uci.edu!orion!grich
From: [email protected] (John Mangrich)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney
Subject: New "land", show at Disneyland
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 9 Aug 91 18:36:45 GMT
Organization: /users/oacstaff/grich/.organization
Lines: 82
Nntp-Posting-Host: halide.acs.uci.edu
 
[From the Los Angeles Times, Friday August 9, 1991]
 
Coming Attraction: Eighth 'Land' at Disneyland
 
Theme parks: 'Mickey's Toon Town,' based on 'Roger Rabbit' movie, is expected
to open in early 1993. Also in the works is a nighttime laser extravaganza as
massive l0-year expansion projects begin.
 
By CHRIS WOODYARD
TIMES STAFF WRITER
 
  ANAHEIM After a sleepy summer without any major new attractions, Disneyland
will soon start building a magical world of cartoon characters that will become
the first new "land" at the fabled theme park in nearly 20 years, park
officials said Thursday.
 
  In addition, workers will also start building the sets next month for a
spectacular nighttime show featuring lasers, a firebreathing dragon and the
evil Ursula from the feature cartoon "The Little Mermaid" along the banks of
the "river" in Frontierland.
 
  Together these attractions will easily be Disneyland's most ambitious
construction project since completion of Splash Mountain in 1989 at an
estimated cost of as much as $70 million. Disney said it could not estimate
construction costs of the two new projects.
 
  Initial construction should start near the "It's a Small World" ride by
November on Mickey's Toon Town, an area themed around the popular animated
movie "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" that featured Bob Hoskins and the voice of
Kathleen Turner as sexy Jessica Rabbit. It will mark only the second time,
after Splash Mountain, that the park has been enlarged outside of the railroad
tracks that surround the Magic Kingdom.
 
  It will also signal the first component of an ambitious series of projects
unveiled last year as part of the "Disney Decade" a 10-year-plan that would
eventually include a refurbished Tomorrowland and a $3-billion theme park in
either Anaheim or Long Beach.
 
  Toon Town is scheduled to open in January, 1993, and its most elaborate
element, an expensive thrill ride featuring Roger Rabbit and friends, should
debut later that year, said Disneyland publicist Barbara Warren. It would be
the eighth "land" at Disneyland and the latest since Critter Country opened in
1972.
 
  Through an entrance near the old Videopolis stage, children will be able to
venture into a make-believe world inhabited by cartoon figures. The village,
which will include the houses of some of Disney's most popular cartoon
characters, is vaguely modeled on a Mickey's Starland attraction at Walt Disney
World in Florida. The version in Anaheim, however, is expected to be a far more
elaborate playground for younger children.
 
  "When you take a 4- or 5-year-old to Disneyland, they have a lot of energy
that has to be let loose," said Disneyland chief spokesman Greg Albrecht. "This
way, they can climb and walk and jump."
 
  Before Toon Town begins to take shape across the park, construction begins
next month in the Rivers of America section of Frontierland on the nighttime
light show.  Parts of the man-made river will be drained next month for
installation of special-effects equipment that will transform it into a
waterfront stage of lasers, pyrotechnics and a first-ever system of projecting
images on mist.
 
  From special-effects barges sunk in the river, the "Imagination" show will
include crashing waves, shooting stars and monstrous flames. A French-designed
system of projecting images onto pillars of mist, giving the illusion that they
are dancing in mid-air, will be attempted for the first time in North America,
said Disneyland '.  publicist John McClintock.
 
  The show will call upon Mickey Mouse to replay his sorcerer's apprentice role
from the Disney film classic "Fantasia." From a perch, atop a grist mill on Tom
Sawyer's, Island, Mickey will seemingly create the special effects that are
supposed to dazzle up to 6,000 onlookers.
 
  The water show will premiere next spring, McClintock said.
 
  "What we're hoping for is a show that is going to be as big a .  tradition as
the [Main Street] Electrical Parade," he said. The evening parade, which has
visitors seated on curbs for an hour or more in anticipation, will continue.
 
--
John Mangrich, Academic Computing, University of California, Irvine, CA   92717
(714)856-8304  FAX: (714)725-2069  Internet: [email protected]

    
    	Okay -- I just got off the horn with some Imagineer friends out in
    Glendale -- and here's the latest on the water pageant Disney's planning
    for Disneyland's Rivers of America.
    
    	The new show -- tenatively titled the " Imagination River
    Spectacular " -- will officially debut in April of 1992. According
    to current plans, 6000 guests per show will be able to stand along
    the Rivers of America and watch the $ 30 million, 20 minute spectacular.
    Making use of seven different technologies -- including laser, holography
    as well as audio animatronics -- the pageant will show what happen when
    Mickey Mouse lets his imagination run wild.
    	The show starts with Mickey ( the typical meet-n-greet costume
    mouse we see daily in the park, only -- this time -- he's dressed in
    the flowing robe and pointed magician's hat he wore in " Fantasia " )
    appearing at the top of a platform near the grist mill on Tom Sawyer's
    Island. From high above the Rivers of America, Mickey will once again
    learn the hard way that it's not smart to mess around with magic.
    	The show starts out benignly enough. Using the power of his
    imagination, Mickey conjures up the pink elephants from " Dumbo "
    as well as the singing-and-dancing crockery we'll soon see in 
    " Beauty and the Beast. " ( These animated characters will be created
    by projecting holographic images onto 50 foot high curtains of mist. )
    	However -- just like in " Fantasia " -- things soon get out of
    control. Only -- this time around -- Mickey doesn't conjure up an
    endless series of brooms. From the dark depths of the oceans, he accidently
    summons Ursula, the evil sea witch from Disney's " Little Mermaid."
    	What happens next is a wizard's battle. There's too many effects
    planned for the particular sequences for me to go into detail now, but
    Ursula seems certain to win when she conjures up a fire breathing
    dragon to threaten Mickey.
    	However, Mickey saves the day when he uses his imagination to bring
    the Mark Twain steaming 'round the bend, ablaze with fireworks. This
    vanquishes Ursula and her dragon ... And -- having learned the true
    power of his imagination -- Mickey lives happily ever after.
    	Not since the Main Street Electrical parade debuted back in 1972
    has Disney produced such a large-scale night-time show for its Anaheim
    park. Slated for three shows nightly during the summer season ( And at
    least one show nightly when Disneyland is open after 8 p.m. ), it's
    going to take Disney at least five months to construct the sets for
    this show.
    	The current plan is for all boat traffic on the Rivers of America
    to shut down during October and most of November. During that time, the
    river will be drained so that the Imagineers have free access to the 
    area they'll setting the show up in. They'll do the bulk of the
    construction then, but hopefully have the river back up and running
    in time for the Thanksgiving crowds.
    	As I understand it, the current plan calls from the sets and such
    of the " Imagination River Spectacular " to * NOT * interfere with the
    usual daily boat traffic along the Rivers of America. However, at dusk,
    all traffic on the river will cease. ( I couldn't get word -- one way
    or the other -- if the Mark Twain would still haul passengers around
    Tom Sawyer's Island inbetween " Imagination " performances. But -- given
    the fireworks that will be fired from the ship during the show's finale
    -- that doesn't seem very likely, now does it ? )
    	Sounds like a hell of a show, doesn't it ? Well, all you WDW fans
    shouldn't be too put out that Disneyland got this show first. Should
    the " Imagination River Spectacular " prove to a success with Anaheim
    visitors, there are plans to bring the pageants to Orlando's Magic
    Kingdom.
    	Questions ?
     

    Okay gang I need some help here.
    
    A friend of my wife has an autistic child (boy, age 5) and they have
    been planning to go to California this Summer. They have been asking us
    about Disneyland and whether or not we feet their son would enjoy it. I
    guess he does not have your basic 5-year old attention span (which may
    not be much to begin with). His muscle tone is not like that of a
    normal child either.
    
    My wife knows them rather well and feels that Small World in DL would
    be okay for him. After that it gets tough to select an attraction busy
    enough to hold his attention.
    
    Anyone out there have any suggestions in this area. Wheelchair bound
    and both the hearing and sight impaired are recognized by the two parks
    as requiring special needs but autism is a special type of handicap.
    
    All thoughts are welcomed.
    
    Mike

    Mike,
    
    The only thing I can suggest is to find out if they've been to any
    regular amusement parks or carnivals, and if so, what kinds of things
    captured his interest there.  There's likely to be some comparable
    attractions at Disneyland.  
    
    I feel in general that DL is much better suited for younger kids than
    WDW.  It's smaller, which not only cuts down on walking time but also
    gives it a busier atmosphere.  There are more things going on in a
    smaller area.  
    
    Also, I think their Fantasyland is better.  There are a few rides there
    that are not in WDW (Pinocchio and Alice in Wonderland, I think).  And
    there's a small train ride if I remember correctly.  These may also
    capture his attention.  
    
    I don't know if this helps much as I don't know much about autism, but
    I think there may be enough there that he'd enjoy himself, if only for
    an afternoon.
    
    - Skip

    My parents are foster parents to a developmentally delayed and
    physically handicapped 8 year old boy.  They have been taking him to
    WDW since he was almost 2 years old.  He normally has a very short
    attention span but loves going on rides in the Magic Kingdom.  Some
    things that might help are that he's familiar with a lot of Disney
    movies and music so he enjoyed rides like Peter Pan.  I think the
    biggest help in keeping his attention was the not waiting in line
    (handicapped get to move to the front of the line).  If he had to wait
    I think we might have only been able to go on 1 ride before he got
    bored.  They might try talking to the attendants at the rides and
    explaining that their child his "handicapped" so that they won't have
    to keep him occupied during the long wait in line.

>   Also, I think their Fantasyland is better.  There are a few rides there
>   that are not in WDW (Pinocchio and Alice in Wonderland, I think).  And
>   there's a small train ride if I remember correctly.  These may also
>   capture his attention.  
    
    
    Fantasyland has the Casey Jr Circus trains (which are a quick trip
    around "Storybook land" (there is also a Storybook land ride through
    the mouth of Monstro, but this is a rather slow "guided tour" and may 
    not be able to hold interest).
    
    Fantasyland also has a motorboat version of the Autopia (our version of
    the Grand Prix raceway) in addition to the Autopia itself.  As part of
    their Disney afternoon promotion last year, they populated the
    shrubbery around the ride with various standees of Gummi Bear
    situations.   This may also be attractive.  Problem is, if it isn't you
    still have to wait for the boat to finish its circuit before you can
    get off.
    
    Tom Sawyer's Island and the other attractions that circle the "Rivers
    of America" are currently (or at least as of December 27)
    unavailable due to the installation of electronics for a new laser show
    to replace the "Fantasy in the Sky" fireworks (Someone decided that the
    noise and falling residue [especially in our sixth year of drought] was
    not a good idea.
    
    I'll be stopping off at the park on Sunday on my way down to teach a
    class in San Diego.  I can pick up a "Souvenir Guide" if you want.
    Contact me at DTN 520-6570
    
    tom

Article: 6942
Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney
Subject: Disneyland, CA Construction Update
From: [email protected] ()
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1992 22:20:19 GMT
Sender: [email protected]
Organization: California State University, Northridge
 
 
As of 3/28, the Rivers of America at Disneyland, CA was filled to its normal
water level, with the water appropriately green and murky (to conceal the
tracks).  One week before (according to a friend) it was empty.  While the
boats are still closed to the public, they were being tested and ARE working.
 
The rafts are being used to transport workers and supplies to the island, 
which is still under construction/refurb.  The stage area is almost complete,
and the mill that was removed to make way for it now sits to its right, with
a brand new, still unfinished water wheel. A new cavern is being constructed to
the left of the stage, but this looks like it will be an addition to the Tom
Sawyer Island "playground", not a part of Fantasmic.  Other parts of the island,
such as the burning log cabin and the balancing rock, are in the process of
being refurbished.  The ducks are back, although not yet in their usual numbers.
 
The morning I was there, the Mark Twain was powered up, but the Columbia was
still sitting in its dock with someone working below, plastic tarps on its deck,
and what looked like a giant version of the starter I replaced on my car
sitting next to the empty box for the replacement part.  That night, both ships
were working, circling the island about a dozen times each, but taking no 
passengers.  It looks as if they will be open to the public soon.
 
The layout of the Fantasmic! show is something like this:
 
                    \__       Tom Sawyer's Island    __/
                       --__        ______     __ __--
                           --__   |______|   |__|<--mill
                 /\_           --_|stage |_--           _/\
                / oo\_            |______|            _/oo \
                \_ oo/                                \oo _/
                  \_/              ______              \_/
        river                     |oooooo|
                   ^              |______|              ^
                   |                 ^                  |
                   |                 |                  |
         ---___    +--------------fountains-------------+   ___---
       +-----+ ---___                                 ___--- +-----+
       |     |       ---___                     ___---       |     |
       +-----+     land    ---_______________---             +-----+
<----     ^                       +------+                      ^   ---->
 Haunted  |                       |      |                      | Golden
 Mansion  |                       +------+                      | Horseshoe
          |                           ^                         |
          |                           |                         |
          +----------------------projectors---------------------+
                        
                      Pirates of the Caribbean
                                 |
                                 v
 
The three fountain areas are identical, each facing a different direction
(hard to represent in ASCII, sorry).  Each has 7 primary fountains, which
shoot 50 feet in the air (they were testing them).  Surrounding them and 
about a dozen footlights is a square made from pipes.  Whether these produce
mist or are just to protect the equipment from wayward boats, I don't know.
The control booth is in the shack behind the stage.
 
The three projectors each face a fountain area, and rise up on hydraulics
to a height of about 40 feet.  Only the hydraulics were being tested when I
was there, not the lasers or spotlights, unfortunately.
 
As a testament to Disney's thoroughness, their testing included such things as
putting balloons in the fountains before turning them on, testing the effects
of passing ships, etc. 
 
OTHER AREAS UNDER CONSTRUCTION:
 
The area behind the Big Thunder Ranch is making progress.  It's a small harbor
off of the river.  One of the railroad conductors said it was for a new
river ride, although it looks more like a dock for storing boats, rather than
boarding them.  Time will tell.
 
It's hard to see much of the construction of Mickey's Toontown, between It's
a Small World and Videopolis on the other side of the RR tracks, but what I
could see was mainly digging and laying foundations.  The question is how
Disneyland will handle foot traffic across the railroad tracks -- will there
be a tunnel or bridge across, or just a crossing gate?
 
The ex-America Sings/ex-ex-Carousel of Progress building still sits empty, 
except for the World of Tron around the back of the second story that the
People Mover passes through.
 
The Carnation Ice Cream Parlor/Restaurant in Main Street and the Tomorrowland
Terrace were temporarily closed for repainting.
 
A stage show of Beauty and the Beast for the Videopolis stage is still in
rehearsal -- looks like it's almost ready to open.
 
Everything else is up and running.  The Disney Afternoon area is still there,
minus the banners and the huge balloon.  There are no major parades yet.
 
--Deanna Bayless ([email protected])

    I've been thinking as to whether we'll ever see Fantasmics at WDW. I
    will never rule anything out when it comes to the Imagineers but
    thinking about how TMK is laid out I think some changes would need to
    be made in Liberty Square before such a show could be put together.
    
    Another question would be when to show it. I guess I'd show it after
    "Fantasy in the Sky".
    
    Mike

Maybe they could do Fantasmic on Seven Seas Lagoon.  It could draw people
out of the MK at closing time.

Should we really be discussing this in the Disneyland Topic?

    Rep to <<< Note 8.139 by LJOHUB::GOLDBERG "Len Goldberg" >>>

>Maybe they could do Fantasmic on Seven Seas Lagoon.  It could draw people
>out of the MK at closing time.

    Better yet would be to  incorporate it with Lumminations at Epcot.  Why
    not  take  some of the scenes  from  past  works  and  some  new  stuff
    incoporate it around the themes of the  countries, add the laser lights
    and fireworks and that'll be one hell of a show.
    
>Should we really be discussing this in the Disneyland Topic?

    No maybe one of the Mods should move it. ;^)

    re: the "problem of foot traffic from the train"
    
    No problem.  The layout has been to have the train travel on a trestle
    with the foot traffic down the tunnel below it (The location of
    ToonTown is where they used to have "Baloo's Dressing Room" for the
    "Plane Crazy"/"Afternoon Avenue" show.
    
    tom

Has anyone heard any news regarding the closing of Tomorrowland and
its redo - becomeing Discoveryland?

I would have thought it closed by now.


thanks!


todd///

    
    	Okay, here's the scoop : Though the Disney Company will only
    currently admit that they are considering re-doing WDW's Tomorrowland
    into the Jules Vernesque Discoveryland, word came out of WDI in
    Glendale this week that BOTH Tomorrowlands in BOTH parks are slated
    for this forward-to-the-past rehab.
    	Why all the hush about Disneyland's Tomorrowland redo ? Because
    the Imagineers know that the Californian Disney dweebs have an almost
    fanatical opposition to any radical changes proposed for the park. 
    Remember the ruckus that was raised when Disney considered axing Mr.
    Lincoln in favor of the Muppets ? Disney's desperately wants to avoid
    another one of those media screamfest, so they're playing this one 
    very close to the vest.
    	Here's the tenative Disneyland Tomorrowland scenario ( Subject to
    change if Eisner says so ) : Sometime over the next year or so, WDW's
    Tomorrowland will go under the knife. Two or three years of
    construction will follow -- so get your rides in on Space Mountain now.
    However, just in time for WDW's 25th anniversary, a bright shiney new 
    Discoveryland will emerge from the rubble. People will go " Oooh, 
    Aah " and Disney will spend big bucks -- particularly on the West
    Coast -- hyping how happy people are with Orlando's rehabbed
    Tomorrowland.
    	Meanwhile -- in Anaheim -- the Westcot Center project will be
    getting underway. Disneyland's parking lot will be awash with bull-
    dozers and -- when the dust clears -- there'll be a West Coast version
    of EPCOT Center standing in its place. ( Estimated opening date :
    Hard to say, though Eisner's been talking up the publicity that the
    company could generate if the place were to open January 1, 2000. )
    	ANYWAY ... After Westcot Center opens and everyone goes " Oooh,
    Aaah, " Disney will say : " Ya know, seeing as we have this brand new
    futuristic park sitting where our parking lot used to be, it really 
    doesn't make sense that we also have Tomorrowland. I mean -- if you 
    think about it -- all of Westcot * IS * Tomorrowland. "
    	You see, the brilliance of Disney's scheme is that -- by the year
    2000 -- we're all going to be so tired of looking at the sad, late 60s
    style Tomorrowland that we'll agree to ANY proposed changes. So -- when
    they announce that Tomorrowland is going to close forever and be
    replaced by Discoveryland -- there'll be little or no ruckus.
    	Again, we're looking at three to four years of construction here
    to do it right. But expect the official rededication / re-openning of
    Discoveryland to occur on or about Disneyland's 50th anniversary --
    July 17, 2005.
    	In the years inbetween, expect a new attraction or two to debut on
    that side of the park. ( Most likely candidate is " Alien Encounter, "
    to replace the oh-so-tired " Mission to Mars. " Also expect a new 
    Disney / Lucas 3D film in 1994 / 1995 to replace " Captain EO. " And
    maybe -- if we're lucky -- the new stereo-speakers-built-into-the-seats
    coaster cars to debut on Space Mountain before the end of the decade,
    making Space Mountain the first roller coast with a simultaneous
    soundtrack. That's right -- Disney wants to make Space Mountain a
    rock-n-roller coaster ! Too cute for words, eh ? )
    	But that's the tenative timetable, folks. Sorry if hearing that
    Disneyland's not due for a new Tomorrowland for 13 plus years is mondo
    depressing. But -- if it's any consolation -- what with Mickey's
    Toontown, the Disneyland Resort as well as Westcot Center going up
    in the next eight years ( And -- who's to say -- maybe Eisner will
    finally give the go-ahead to the long-planned Adventureland Indiana
    Jones thrill ride, " Temple of Doom " before the decade's out too ! ),
    there'll be lots of new stuff to take our minds off the fact that 
    Disneyland's Tomorrowland is so sad looking these days.
    	Any other questions ?
    

        
    >Why all the hush about Disneyland's Tomorrowland redo ? Because
    >the Imagineers know that the Californian Disney dweebs have an almost
    >fanatical opposition to any radical changes proposed for the park. 
    >Remember the ruckus that was raised when Disney considered axing Mr.
    >Lincoln in favor of the Muppets ? Disney's desperately wants to avoid
    >another one of those media screamfest, so they're playing this one 
    >very close to the vest.
    
    When you say "California Disney dweebs", are you referring to the
    general Disneyland-visiting public, or the Disney people responsible
    for upgrading/maintaining the park?  I can't imagine that the general
    public would get up in arms about the shutting-down of Tomorrowland for
    refurbishment -- that is, as long as the more "modern" attractions
    (Space Mountain, Captain EO, Star Tours) remain as part of the new
    Tomorrowland/Discoveryland, and are open at least some of the time
    during the construction.  It doesn't seem like the closure of the other
    attractions would disturb guests too much, other than a general dislike
    of seeing old, familiar things disappear: 
    
      Mission to Mars:  Most people say, "Good riddance"
    
      Autopia:  There are two of these anyway, so it's no big deal
    
      America Sings:  Been dead for years
    
      People Mover:  One of my favorites, but I can't honestly say it's one
      of the more popular attractions.  No point in running it if half the
      attractions it travels through are closed, anyway.
    
      Circlevision 360:  They might as well close it until some new movies
      are ready.
    
      Submarine Voyage:  Popular attraction, but I assume it would remain
      when the construction is done -- perhaps just upgraded and retrofitted 
      with the Jules Verne-like craft similar to the one in Florida?
     
      Skyway:  Too bad, but you need _two_ ends to operate this thing.
    
      Monorail:  I assume that they'll have to keep it running somehow
      to shuttle guests to the hotel.  Of course, that might not be of as
      much importance if this refurbishment takes place _after_ WESTCOT
      is completed.
    
    >Aaah, " Disney will say : " Ya know, seeing as we have this brand new
    >futuristic park sitting where our parking lot used to be, it really 
    >doesn't make sense that we also have Tomorrowland. 
    
    If there's no parking lot, there won't be a parking lot tram.  _That_
    would really steam me.  Maybe they could run it around the inside of
    the park for a while?
    
    - David
    
    
   

    
    	RE : -1
    
    		When I say " Californian Disney Dweeb, " I'm referring to 
    a truly rabid bunch of hardcore Disneyana fans. Out in LA, there are at
    least two organizations -- The National Fantasy Fan Club for Disneyana
    Enthusiasts as well as the Mouse Club -- that have memberships of 2000+
    people. These people * LOVE * Disneyland, worshipping the place almost
    like a cathedral. They know * EVERYTHING * about the park : Its
    history, the little quirky corners of the place, as well as the future
    plans for the place.
    		Now -- within this group of rabid Disneyana fans -- you'll
    find a sub-set of real Disneyland fanatics. These are the folks who
    have been going to the park for 36+ years and hate to see anything
    change. They want to see Disneyland forever stay just as it was when
    they were kids. These are the folks who bitched endlessly when
    " Journey Through Inner Space " was replaced by " Star Tours. " These
    are the people who contacted the Los Angeles media to leak word about
    the Lincoln-being-closed-for-Kermit story, which successfully aborted
    any plans of building a " Muppetvision 3D " attraction at Disneyland in
    the near future.
    		It's this small group of Disney dweebs -- not employees or
    Anaheim locals -- that Disney fears. They know that -- if they get wind
    of the Tomorrowland-becoming-Discoveryland plans -- these people will
    work over-time to find a way to derail the plans. ( After all,
    Tomorrowland is one of the five original ' lands ' at the park,
    something that Walt Disney himself had a hand in creating. To snuff
    out Tomorrowland would mean that there would be less original Disney
    stuff in the park, which would infuriate these weenies ... Which is why
    they'll do everything in their power to doom Discoveryland. )
    		Anyway -- by now -- you should get the idea that we're
    dealing with folks who are several sandwiches short of a picnic. Still
    Disney still fears these people. They're still smarting from all the
    negative press they got over Mr. Lincoln -- so the Walt Disney
    Company's going to do whatever it has to bring about a smooth, quiet,
    non-controversial changeover from Tomorrowland to Discoveryland. So
    expect lots of positive press releases and smooth talking when these
    plans initially get announced.
    		That answer your question ? Hope so .... Now what is the 
    deal with this obsession with the parking lot tram ? 

    
    >When I say " Californian Disney Dweeb, " I'm referring to 
    >a truly rabid bunch of hardcore Disneyana fans. Out in LA, there are at
    >least two organizations -- The National Fantasy Fan Club for Disneyana
    >Enthusiasts as well as the Mouse Club -- that have memberships of 2000+
    >people. 

    I belong to the NFFC, and I have no problems with seeing Tomorrowland
    refurbished.  I think MuppetVision 3D is great, too, but I also think they
    could have found a better location for it that wouldn't have required 
    ripping out Mr. Lincoln.  And I don't believe either or both of these clubs 
    could have derailed the plans for it without a lot of public support.
    
    >They know that -- if they get wind of the Tomorrowland-becoming-
    >Discoveryland plans -- these people will work over-time to find a way to 
    >derail the plans. 
    
    I don't think so.  They might cause a bit of a ruckus, but I don't
    think the public is so enamored of the old Tomorrowland attractions
    that they could drum up much support.
    
    >Tomorrowland is one of the five original ' lands ' at the park,
    >something that Walt Disney himself had a hand in creating. To snuff
    >out Tomorrowland would mean that there would be less original Disney
    >stuff in the park, which would infuriate these weenies 
    
    Most of the aficionados I know appreciate that things don't stay the
    same forever -- that's what makes the collecting and the memories and 
    the nostalgia so interesting.  If some of them are really hell-bent on
    preserving their favorite attractions, perhaps they should ante up and
    buy out the old attractions when they're removed.  Then they can build
    their own theme park out in the desert somewhere -- The "Lost"
    Disneyland.   Just think of it:  The House of the Future, Journey
    Through Inner Space, Flying Saucers, Mine Train through Nature's
    Wonderland, The Hall of Chemistry, "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" --
    all in one place!
     
    - David
    
    

    re: -.1
    
>                                                           they can build
>   their own theme park out in the desert somewhere -- The "Lost"
>   Disneyland.   Just think of it:  The House of the Future, Journey
>   Through Inner Space, Flying Saucers, Mine Train through Nature's
>   Wonderland, The Hall of Chemistry, "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" --
>   all in one place!
    
    	You left out the Pack Mules and Autopia Junior!

    
    David --
    
    	You're a member of the NFFC too ? I * KNEW * there was a reason I
    liked your replies. 
    	Anyway, you're right about most of the NFFC and Mouse Club
    membership being realistic and understanding that things do change --
    even at Disneyland. However, Disney is still really smarting over the
    Muppetvision / Lincoln debacle ( In fact, they trace all the bad press
    back a seminar at the 1990 NFFC National Convention where Imagineer
    Craig Wilson spilled the beans about the Kermit-for-Abe changeover. 
    They believe that several members of the NFFC -- upset at the planned
    closing -- began calling the media the very next week. Anyway, the
    slip-of-the-lips had a horrific impact on Wilson's career. Within
    months, Disney canned him. Given that -- at the time -- Craig was as
    highly thought of within WDI as Tony Baxter, Bruce Gordon and Dave
    Mumford, this gives some idea how furious Disney execs were ....
    Anyway ... ) so they're being extra secretive about their current
    changeover plans.
    	And -- speaking of your " Let-them-buy-up-all-the-old-attractions
    -and-build-the-lost-Disneyland-in-the-desert " -- you must have heard
    about the guy who was trying to buy the old monorail ? As I heard it,
    when Disney made the changeover to the WDW-style cars for Disneyland's
    monorail route, this guy put up a huge stink. He wanted to purchase and
    preserve one car in particular -- " Big Red. " Disney less-than-politely
    rebuffed the guy's offer. However, years later, Disney opted to
    renovate the monorail car itself, turning into a bus-like vehicle. As I
    remember, it toured the country back in 1990 as part of Disneyland's
    35th birthday celebration.
        Anywho, getting back to the point where we started all this : The 
    Walt Disney Company has a strange sort of love/hate relationship with
    the NFFC and Mouse Club. I mean, They like most of the fans and are usually
    quite cooperative with their questions and requests. ( Dave Smith of the
    Disney Archives is particularly accessible. No matter how bizarre your
    question, Dave's always willing to try and chase down an answer. Don't
    hestitate to drop him a line if you have any questions about obscure 
    Disneyana ... ) In fact -- this year -- The Walt Disney Company has
    decided that it too wants to get into the Disneyana fan game. They'll
    be holding the first ever Disney company sponsored Disneyana convention
    this October at the Contemporary Resort Hotel in Orlando.
    	But then there are the OTHER fans, the ones that carped about the
    Chicken-of-the-Sea getting pulled down to make way for the new Fantasy-
    land, who whined as the " Mine Trains through Nature's Wonderland "
    were derailed in favor of Big Thunder Mountain railway ... You get the
    idea. These folks who obsess on this stuff really concern Disney execs.
    And -- given that the new improved Disney Company has an obsession with
    the bottom line -- they worry that the right phone call to the right
    reporter could mean yet another embarassing series of stories about the
    company ( Never mind the money spent on developing Disneyland versions
    of these attraction or the missed revenue from admissions that's lost
    forever when these " controversial " attractions don't make it off the
    drawing boards .... ). So these other fans -- and the trouble that they
    could cause the Disney company -- really frighten people at WDI.
    Particularly in the wake of what happened to Craig Wilson ... 
    	Don't get me wrong. It's okay to mourn missing pieces of your
    youth. I -- for one -- find that I really miss the old Bear Country. I
    mean, I * KNOW * that Splash Mountain is a truly nifty attraction and it
    really adds to the fun of a day at Disneyland. And yet ... Bear Country
    used to be the one cool, quiet, calm corner of the park. If you needed
    to take a break from the crush and the craziness of the summer-time crowds,
    you could always find a restful spot back on this side of the here. But
    once " Splash Mountain " rose up, drawing tens of thousands of visitors
    back to the newly renamed Critter Country ... this side of the park's ALWAYS
    mobbed now. I don't have anywhere to go inside of Disneyland anymore
    where I can just kick back for a bit and gather my strengths when I make my
    annual trek out to Anaheim. It's SOOOOO depressing ...
    	I guess what I'm trying to say is that I personally think it's a
    little strange for people to obsess about how horrible it would be for
    things to ever change inside of Disneyland. ( Of course -- given that 
    I have just spent the better part of an hour creating a note about my
    thoughts concerning their views -- I guess I have no right to talk
    about the rights and/or wrongs of somebody else's obsessions. Anyway ... ) 
    	Then again, who am I to say ? I guess -- in a way -- we should
    thank the truly obsessive Disney fans. Occassionally, after years and
    years of calls and letters, they accomplish miracles.
    	CASE IN POINT : There's this one guy who wrote for years and years
    to Disney, saying " When are you going to bring back the ' Flying
    Saucers ' attraction ? " Disney officials would politely write back,
    explaining that -- due to the balky operation systems -- the attraction
    was an operational nightmare. It broke down all the time, it was
    difficult to repair, etc. The point being : It ain't coming back, pal.
    	But this guy kept writing and calling, writing and calling. And --
    as the years went by -- a lot of new Imagineers came on board with the
    company, many of whom had grown up going to Disneyland and had very
    fond memories of the ' Flying Saucers ' attractions. Some of them got
    word of this guy's calls and letters and got to thinking that it * WOULD *
    really be great if they were able to bring back this legendary attraction.
    	Which brings us up to October 1991. As part of the kick-off of Walt
    Disney World's 20th anniversary celebration, the exit area of the " Walt
    Disney Story " theater in the Magic Kingdom has been turned into a
    veritable gallery of Disney theme park stuff-we've-got-in-the-works. 
    Among the projects highlighted is a proposed makeover of the " Carousel
    of Progress " theater, retro-fitting its exterior with elements that
    suggest that the theater was this massive UFO. Guests would enter the
    ride building, where -- inside -- they'd queue up around this huge
    ballroom-like floor. Fiber optics would be built into the surrounding
    walls, suggesting a never-ending starfield.
    	And what will guests be able to ride inside the old " Carousel of
    Progress " building ? You guessed it ! The Flying Saucers !
    	So maybe I'm wrong to bash the true Disney fanatics. Sometimes
    their persistance accomplishes incredible things. Personally, I wish
    Disney had been able to put " Muppetvision 3D " in Disneyland's Main 
    Street Opera House ( Provided -- of course -- they found a new,
    smaller-but-still-suitable performance space for " Great Moments with
    Mr. Lincoln " elsewhere in the park ). It's a great show and I think
    Disneyland visitors would have enjoyed it just as much as Disney - MGM
    visitors do now.
    	But a few Disney die-hards felt otherwise, and -- by alerting the
    media -- they spoiled things for Disney / Muppet fans throughout
    California. ( Though I have heard there is a possibility that -- some-
    time in the next five years or so -- we may see a " Muppetvision 3D "
    theater build as a new attraction of the new " land " currently under
    construction in Anaheim, Mickey's Toontown. So let's keep our fingers 
    crossed, shall we ? ) And the fall-out from that is that Disney will be
    moving forward very cautiously with their proposed Tomorrowland-into-
    Discoveryland changeover -- which is a shame 'cause that side of the
    park is in really sad shape now. Imagine how out-of-date it'll seem in
    13 years !
    	Alright -- enough with the lengthy explanation. Now -- David --
    when are you going to come clean with this " Why I like to ride the 
    parking lot tram " fixation ? 
    
                                         

    	I've wanted to ask this for some time.   How the heck do you get
    all of the scoop on everything happenning at WDI??????  I know, you're
    the DEC sales rep for Disney......no......you have a side job as the
    guy who cleans the offices at night and you rifle through desks and
    file cabinets......no.......you have incriminating photos of Eisner
    taking a sneak trip to Universal Studios.....no.....I give up!!!
    
    
    Tom

    
    > However, Disney is still really smarting over the 
    > Muppetvision/Lincoln debacle 
    
    I guess I still don't (and probably never will) understand this.  My
    perception was that the NFFC basically brought the proposed change to
    the public's attention, and a large portion of the public didn't want
    to see Mr. Lincoln go.  It might be a little embarrassing to find out
    that your plans aren't appreciated, but I would think that the Disney
    folks would be at least as pleased as they were chagrined to find that a 
    25 year old attraction was still popular enough to cause such a reaction.
    They're in the business of pleasing the public, and if the public wants
    Mr. Lincoln, then let 'em have it.
    
    I do feel the public might have been a little gypped, though.  I think
    that a lot of the people campaigning to keep Mr. Lincoln really had no
    idea what Muppet*Vision 3D was like, and were merely reacting to the
    thought of something as frivolous as Kermit supplanting Mr. Lincoln
    without really knowing all the details.  I must admit that when I went to 
    the MGM park last December, I almost skipped this attraction, thinking, 
    "Aw, that's just a silly movie for kids."  I ventured inside anyway, and 
    it turned out to be one of the most hysterically funny shows I'd seen in 
    a long time!  I guess it's a lot easier when you have a whole new park
    to put it in, rather than having to remove a piece of vintage Disney
    work (Mr. Lincoln) to replace it with a primarily non-Disney (Muppet) 
    attraction.
        
    >And -- speaking of your " Let-them-buy-up-all-the-old-attractions
    >-and-build-the-lost-Disneyland-in-the-desert " -- you must have heard
    >about the guy who was trying to buy the old monorail ? 
    
    I don't remember if I'd heard this or not.  I really would have been
    surprised if Disney sold off anything that had once been part of the
    park, useful or not, to an outside buyer.  I do wonder how much of
    what's removed is preserved, just in case someone might want to
    resurrect it.  I was reading the article in "E-Ticket" about how they
    basically had to demolish the House of the Future to get it out of
    Tomorrowland, and I hoped that other attractions didn't end up meeting
    the same fate.
    
    >Dave Smith of the Disney Archives is particularly accessible. No matter 
    >how bizarre your question, Dave's always willing to try and chase down an
    >answer. Don't hestitate to drop him a line if you have any questions about
    >obscure Disneyana.)
    
    How does one contact Mr. Smith?  Usually when I have a question, I just
    send a letter to public relations at Disneyland.  They're pretty good
    about responding to inquiries (they even answered my question about the
    basketball hoop at the top of the Matterhorn), but they won't reply to
    obviously silly questions (they never got back to me about whether or
    not Walt's re-animation would require the shutting-down of Pirates of
    the Caribbean for a while), and they don't seem to want to go into much
    detail.
    
    As an aside, I recently asked them about the ending of the Snow White
    ride.  (You know, a bunch of menacing scenes of witches and dungeons,
    with Snow White nowhere to be seen, until you suddenly exit to a mural
    proclaiming "And they all lived happily ever after . . .").  Their response
    was that the story was truncated due to an unfortunate lack of room when 
    the park was first built.  Further inquiries as to why:
    
    a)  The lack of space wasn't noticed during the planning stages
    b)  The problem wasn't resolved during the 1983 Fantasyland
        refurbishment
    c)  The Florida version, where they presumably had plenty of room,
        suffers from the same flaw 
    
    went unanswered.  Do you know the "real" story?  I'm curious.
    
    >In fact -- this year -- The Walt Disney Company has
    >decided that it too wants to get into the Disneyana fan game. They'll
    >be holding the first ever Disney company sponsored Disneyana convention
    >this October at the Contemporary Resort Hotel in Orlando.
    
    Looks great, but I blew all my money at the Teddy Bear and Doll
    Convention last December.  Maybe if I survive the next wave of layoffs,
    though . . . 
    
    >But then there are the OTHER fans, the ones that carped about the
    >Chicken-of-the-Sea getting pulled down to make way for the new Fantasy-
    >land, who whined as the " Mine Trains through Nature's Wonderland "
    >were derailed in favor of Big Thunder Mountain railway ... You get the
    >idea. These folks who obsess on this stuff really concern Disney execs.
    
    You know, I don't think I _ever_ went on the Mine Train Through
    Nature's Wonderland in any of my visits to the park.  I was just one of
    those impressionable kids who kept going through the Haunted Mansion
    and Pirates of the Caribbean over and over and over and over . . .
    
    I think that as long as the public knows what Disney is planning,
    they'll wholeheartedly support the changes (except for the rabid few
    who feel that all the original pieces are sacred).  Of course, it would
    be nice for there to be an element of surprise as well.  
    
    >Alright -- enough with the lengthy explanation. Now -- David --
    >when are you going to come clean with this "Why I like to ride the 
    >parking lot tram" fixation ? 
    
    What's not to like?  There's rarely ever a line, it's never the same
    ride twice, and there are thrills by the minute -- it's just about the
    only ride that doesn't run on a track.  ;-)
    
    - David
    

You mean to tell me that they're putting a Flying Saucer ride in Walt Disney
World?  Obviously, because I live in California I'm really bummed.  The Flying
Saucers were my second all time favorite ride at Disneyland.  Maybe someday
they'll bring them back here (I hope, I hope!!!).  Think I'll start writing
letters today :-).

Regarding this so called Discoveryland.....My husband and I were just at
Disneyland recently and we talked about, "What do you think happened to the
land that never happened?"  We both remember being seeing a model of a new land
based on 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea.  That was a decade or better ago.  Is
this what Discoverland is supposed to be like?

Linda

    re: .143 
    
    Shutting tommorrow land seems reasonable, but taking space mountain
    down for two to four years seems excessive. In particular given the heavy
    competition for the both parks face and the general lack of thrill
    rides. Given a little thought I am sure they could find a way to get
    people in and out of SM. Maybe redirect the moving sidewalk and get
    rid of the awful RCA commerical. 

    
    RE : 149
    
    	My info from WDI comes from all sorts of sources : Actual
    Imagineers that I've made friends with over the years, veteran Disney
    employees at both the studio and the parks, NFFC members on both coasts
    that I trade info with. Plus I read voraciously as well as spend far
    too much time poking in and around this notes file ... Mix all that info 
    coming in from all those sources and -- Voila ! -- you have a person
    that knows * FAR * too much about the Walt Disney Company. ( Some one
    of these days, I've got to SERIOUSLY look into acquiring a life ! )
    
    RE : 150
    
    	David, I guess I haven't really done too good of explaining why
    Disney's still reeling from the Lincoln / Muppets debacle. You see --
    as I understand it -- Back in the late 1980s, The Walt Disney Company
    found itself in a tough spot. Though they had just spent mega-bucks 
    upgrading the animation of Disneyland's Lincoln figure ( Up until the 
    recent opening of Euro Disneyland, there were only three S-100 audio
    animatronic figures to be found in the Disney parks : The wicked witch
    in Orlando's " Great Movie Ride," the auctioneer in California's " Pirates
    of the Carribbean " and Mr. Lincoln in Disneyland's " Great Moments with
    Mr. Lincoln " show. These figures are noted for their extremely fluid,
    truly life-like movement as well as their high price tags : $ 60,000 --
    $ 100,000 apiece ! ) as well as overhauling the narration, music and
    film used in the show, park guests still were passing the show by.
    At the time -- in spite of all the money Disney spent to make the show
    even more impressive -- attendance had fallen to the point where " Great
    Moments with Mr. Lincoln " was playing ( on average ) seven guests a
    show ! Given that the Main Street Opera House seats more that 300,
    Disney viewed this as a tremendous waste of resources.
    	However, Disney had already had one horrible experience with public
    outcry when it came to shutting down " Mr. Lincoln. " Back in the early
    1970s, Disney has pulled Mr. Lincoln's plug so that the Main Street
    Opera House could be used to present a film that had been originally
    developed for WDW : " The Walt Disney Story. " Though this film was
    fairly popular with guests, the locals -- as well as several wrap-them-
    selves-in-the-American-flag-types -- complained that the Disney Company
    had shut down a piece of real Americana to make way for a bit of self
    promotion. After a year and a half of this ( During which, Disney
    Company executives stressed that -- though they were all very patriotic
    Americans -- attendance had fallen off in recent years at the " Great 
    Moments " show and that -- by installing the " Disney Story " film --
    they only hoped to make better use of a beautiful theater ), Disney Company
    executives finally caved in. And -- just in time for our nation's
    Bicentennial celebration -- " Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln " was back
    in business.
    	So -- with the memories of all the negative press the company got
    during the previous " Mr. Lincoln " closing -- Disney Company
    executives were determined to get it right this time. They spent months
    debating how they could go about diffusing this difficult situation.
    Lots of scenarios were proposed :
    	1) There was talk that -- before they'd announce that the Muppets
    were moving into the Main Street Opera House -- Disney would overhaul
    the Lincoln figure, making it possible to take this robot on the road
    to appear and perform at schools and museums across the country. ( I'm
    told a feasibility study was done and -- in the end -- it was decided
    that it would be just too costly for Disney to create a mobile Mr.
    Lincoln exhibit. Plus -- given the delicacy of the mechanisms involved
    in the operation of the S-100 version of the Lincoln figure -- the
    Imagineers doubted that Mr. Lincoln would remain operational for long
    given the rigors of the road.
    	2) There was also talk of shutting down the live stage show at the
    Golden Horseshoe Theater and making this the new home of Disneyland's
    " Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln. " However, this project was to have
    featured a major overhauling of the show -- with Mr. Lincoln being
    joined by AA versions of other great Americans like Mark Twain, Ben 
    Franklin and Teddy Roosevelt. ( Yeah, for those of you familiar with
    the newer version of " Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln, " this would
    have meant appropriating even more pieces of EPCOT Center's " American
    Adventure " show into Mr. Lincoln's program. Disney LOVES to recycle
    stuff. Anyway ... ) Again, a feasibility study was done and it was 
    decided that this plan too would cost too much.
    	This is as far as Disney had gotten with its what-are-we-supposed-
    to-with-Mr.-Lincoln plans when Craig Wilson spilled the beans to the
    NFFC, whose more radical members promptly called the LA Times and the 
    Orange County Register. From then on, Disney didn't have a chance to
    act. All they could do was react. And -- seeing as Michael Eisner hates
    negative Disney press -- he personally pulled the plug on the move-Mr.-
    Lincoln plans.
   	The sad part of this is that -- after all that negative press and
    people howling cause Disney dared to think about shutting down Disneyland's
    " Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln " attraction -- very little has
    changed at the Main Street Opera House. Though thousands professed to
    be great fans of this ultra-patroitic show, Abe still plays -- day
    after day -- to mostly empty houses. If anything, attendance at " Great
    Moments " hasn't gone up, it's gone DOWN these past two years. I'm told
    a recent audience survey showed that -- on average -- fewer than one in
    a hundred Disneyland visitors stopped in to see Abe during their latest
    visit to the Anaheim park.
    	Even so, after this last media uproar, Disney wouldn't DREAM of EVER
    shutting down " Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln. " Short of fire, earth-
    quake or flood, nothing's ever going to get Abe out of Disneyland's Main
    Street Opera House now.
    	
    	As for what-becomes-of-old-Disneyland-attractions-as-the-new-ones-
    are-being-built, I had always thought they were trashed and scattered to
    the four winds. However -- at a recent NFFC seminar -- Imagineer Bruce
    Gordon alluded to a warehouse in Tarzana that the Disney Company owns
    where pieces of some of the old Tomorrowland exhibits had been stored.
    He himself was particularly thrilled to find pieces of the huge TWA
    rocket that used to stand by the entrance of Disneyland's " Flight to
    the Moon " attraction. So -- who knows ? Even though we're certain that
    old favorites like the " 20,000 Leagues " attraction as well as the
    " House of the Future " are gone for good, maybe there was other chunks
    of Disney theme park past hidden away in Orange County warehouses. So
    who's up for forming a search party ?
    
    	As for contacting Mr. Smith of the Walt Disney Company archives, if
    you're serious, I'll post the address for you. I don't have it handy
    tonight, but I will bring it to work with me tomorrow.
    
    	In regard to the abrupt ending to the " Snow White's Scary
    Adventure " in Anaheim as well as Orlando ... Well, you have to
    understand that niceties like story-wrap-up-scenes for Disney
    attractions only began to been seen as essential by the Imagineers
    within the last 15 years or so. Very few of the ride-through
    attractions -- particularly the Fantasyland dark rides -- had
    clearly thought-out plots. It was just assumed that guests were
    already familiar with the Disney story that the attraction was
    based on, so that it wasn't really necessary to spell out exactly
    what the plot of the story was.
    	However, this latest generation of Imagineers wants to avoid 
    short-cuts like that. So -- in Euro Disneyland's version of " Snow
    White " -- there is indeed a tableau with the prince carrying Snow
    White toward his horse, to live happily ever after. I'm also told
    that -- in this closing scene -- the dwarves and numerous cute little
    animals react happily.( Do keep in mind that -- due to the somewhat
    simplistic nature of Disney's Fantasyland dark ride attractions --
    the animation of the figures in this attraction is downright crude
    compared to the ghosts in " Phantom Manor " or the rogues plying the
    waters of the " Pirates of the Carribbean. "
    	You'll also find this sort of attention to detail in other areas
    of the Euro Disney park. For years now, certain Imagineers have been 
    grossing that Disneyland's Grand Canyon diorama is in the wrong spot.
    After all, what do stuffed birds and sheeps -- as well as the dinosaurs
    that follow -- have to do with Tomorrowland or Main Street USA. So -- as
    they were designing Euro Disneyland -- the Imagineers included a new 
    version of the Grand Canyon diorama. Only this time around, the animals
    -- which are actually animated in this version -- can be seen as the
    train rolls from Main Street station toward Frontierland. This makes
    for a much more logical fit, acting as sort of a preview of the wild
    thrills one might expect when taking a train out west.
    	So -- David -- though this may not answer your question as to why 
    Disney didn't think to include a story resolving scene in the WDW or
    the new Fantasyland version of " Snow White's Scary Adventure " -- rest
    assured that the bunch of Imagineers that are currently in charge of
    the Disney theme parks are aware of these sort of inconsistancies in 
    existing attractions and lean really hard on Disney management to get
    them the money to repair these mistakes. The trouble is Uncle Scrooge
    -- AKA Michael Eisner -- keeps a very tight grip on his purse strings.
    He doesn't usually mind spending mega-bucks to built a new attraction,
    but it's damned near impossible to get him to free up any dough for
    changes in a previously existing show. Eisner's attitude : If it ain't
    broke, don't fix it ... Which explains why he's willing to wait 13
    years or so for the Tomorrowland makeover to be completed. After all, 
    though this side of the park looks plenty shabby, it still features 
    two of Disneyland's most popular attractions : Space Mountain and Star
    Tours. When attendance finally starts to fall off for these two old
    favorites, look for the Discoveryland changeover project to finally
    start gaining some momentum.
    
    	RE : .151
    
    	Don't fret about Disneyland losing out on an all-new version of
    the " Flying Saucers " attraction. Should the revamped version prove
    to be a success in Orlando ( More importantly, that Disney's
    construction crews don't have too bad a time shoe-horning this new
    attraction into WDW's ' Carousel of Progress ' theater building ), 
    you can rest assured that the saucers will find their way to Anaheim.
    Not sure if they'll also rehab Disneyland's ' Carousel of Progress ' / 
    ' American Sings ' theater-go-round building or opt to build an all-new
    facility to house the flying discs. I'm told that DL's ' CoP ' / ' AS '
    theater is in particularly rough shape, with the theater's turning 
    mechanism all but burned out and the building itself riddled with 
    asbestos. Maybe it'd just be best if they leveled the place and started
    from scratch.
    	But rest assured. Should Disney opt to bring the flying saucers to
    Orlando and they prove to be a hit with WDW's Magic Kingdom guests ( As
    well as not prove to be such a maitenance nightmare this time around ),
    eventually they'll re-appear in some form at Disneyland.
    	And -- yes, you're right -- Euro Disneyland's Discoveryland as well
    as the proposed WDW Tomorrowland makeover are all based loosely on a
    land that Imagineer Tony Baxter proposed for construction in Disneyland
    back in the mid 1970s : Discovery Bay. This area -- based on Disney
    films like " 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea " as well as " The Island on
    Top of the World " -- would have been located approximately where the
    Indian village is currently located on Frontierland's Rivers of
    America. To learn more about this proposed addition to the park, I 
    suggest you grab a copy of the latest " Disney News " and read the
    article about back stories the Imagineers had created for various
    attractions at the park. Better still, bop up to the Disney Gallery
    during your new visit to Disneyland and view the recently restored
    model of Discovery Bay. Looks like it would have been a truly snazzy
    addition to the park ... But the previous management at Disney felt
    the company's money would be better spent installing thrill rides at
    the park like Space Mountain and Big Thunder.
    
    	RE : .152
    
    	Speaking of Space Mountain, Disney recognizes that shutting down
    this attraction in either Orlando or Anaheim is courting disaster with
    Disney theme park fans. So -- when the Discoveryland make-over finally
    gets underway -- look for this attraction as well as Star Tours to
    remain open as the rest of this side of the park goes under the knife.
    Only after the new attractions are ready to open will you see Space
    Mountain close for its overhaul. The same holds true to WDW's Tomorrow-
    land : Even as the rest of Tomorrowland goes under the knife, Space
    Mountain will remain operational. ( Actually, this will be lots easier
    to do in Orlando, given that WDW's Space Mountain stands so far away
    from the rest of the attractions in Tomorrowland. )
    
    	Whew ! Loooooong note ! Does that pretty much answer everyone's
    questions. Now -- if you'll excuse me -- I have to go see if David's
    right about this highly entertaining parking lot tram ride. To think
    -- all these years -- I was missing out on the fun ....
    
    			Later, 
    					jrh   

    
    >However, Disney had already had one horrible experience with public
    >outcry when it came to shutting down " Mr. Lincoln. " Back in the early
    >1970s, Disney has pulled Mr. Lincoln's plug so that the Main Street
    >Opera House could be used to present a film that had been originally
    >developed for WDW : " The Walt Disney Story. "
    
    I didn't realize that they had received complaints after shedding Mr.
    Lincoln the first time.  I remember when he was removed to make way for
    "The Walt Disney Story", but I was too young to know or care how
    anybody else felt about it.  Actually, I kind of missed the movie -- I
    was glad to get to see it again in Florida.
    
    >Though thousands professed to be great fans of this ultra-patroitic show,
    >Abe still plays -- day after day -- to mostly empty houses. If anything, 
    >attendance at " Great Moments " hasn't gone up, it's gone DOWN these past 
    >two years
    
    I'd have to agree.  I can't remember seeing more than a few dozen
    people in the theater at any one time, even on the most crowded of
    days.  I think attendance is probably low because:
    
     1)  The attraction is situated in a corner of the park, with little
         else nearby to attract guests.
    
     2)  Mr. Lincoln isn't the kind of attraction that draws very many repeat
         guests -- once you've seen it, you've seen it.  While kids may
         want to experience the Enchanted Tiki Room more than once, I can't
         recall ever seeing a child drag his parents in to see Mr. Lincoln
         over and over.
    
     3)  Mr. Lincoln has been around for 25 years (more or less) -- it's
         the kind of attraction that's always been there and seemingly
         always will.  There's always so much more to do elsewhere in the
         park that most people probably skip Mr. Lincoln, thinking that
         they can always see it "later".  I'd wager that if they announced
         a date after which Mr. Lincoln would be gone, never to return,
         attendance would pick up tremendously.  If not, then nobody really
         cared in the first place.
    
	>Even so, after this last media uproar, Disney wouldn't DREAM of EVER
        >shutting down " Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln. " Short of fire, earth-
        >quake or flood, nothing's ever going to get Abe out of Disneyland's 
        >Main Street Opera House now.
    
        Much as I like this attraction, it is a tremendous waste of space 
        right now.  I think the best ideas, as you mentioned, are to
        integrate Mr. Lincoln into some larger show or attraction.  
    
        Maybe they could just stick him out on Tom Sawyer Island somewhere and 
        let him lecture to passing guests.  Or even put him in the Haunted
        Mansion (plenty of people claim he's still haunting the White
        House). 
     
        >As for contacting Mr. Smith of the Walt Disney Company archives, if
        >you're serious, I'll post the address for you. I don't have it handy
        >tonight, but I will bring it to work with me tomorrow.
    
        Yes, I'm serious, and tomorrow has long since passed.  
    
        >In regard to the abrupt ending to the " Snow White's Scary
        >Adventure " in Anaheim as well as Orlando ... Well, you have to
        >understand that niceties like story-wrap-up-scenes for Disney
        >attractions only began to been seen as essential by the Imagineers
        >within the last 15 years or so.
    
        Although I agree that you'd never be able to make sense of any of
        the Fantasyland "movie" rides if you didn't already know the story
        lines, all of them but Snow White do have a final "wrap-up" scene.
        If the reason Snow White lacks such a scene is that it wasn't
        considered important, is their claim that it was due to a lack of
        space basically just public relations misinformation?  (I can't
        imagine their ever admitting "Sorry for the oversight, but we
        didn't think it was important at the time.")
     
        >But rest assured. Should Disney opt to bring the flying saucers to
        >Orlando and they prove to be a hit with WDW's Magic Kingdom guests ( As
        >well as not prove to be such a maitenance nightmare this time around ),
        >eventually they'll re-appear in some form at Disneyland.
    
        Someone I know opined that this time around, the saucers would be
        true hovercraft rather than use the previous mechanism of air
        cushions from below.  Any insight into this?
    
        >Only after the new attractions are ready to open will you see Space
        >Mountain close for its overhaul.
    
        What is it about the ride that will require an "overhaul"?  Is the
        exterior being redone to fit the Discoveryland theme?  Or the same
        for the interior?
    
        - David
    

    
    RE : .154
    
    	" GREAT MOMENTS WITH MR. LINCOLN " COMMENTS : To get the full
    story of what happened the first time Disney tried to pull Mr.
    Lincoln's plug, I suggest you chase down a copy of Randy Bright's
    book, " Disneyland. " Bright, an up-and-coming Imagineer who was
    tragically killed in a cycling accident three or four years ago, 
    details all the hassle the Walt Disney Company encountered when they 
    originally tried to swap Walt for Abe. ( I * THINK * this volume is still
    available in area book stores, or perhaps they could order a copy for you. 
    Better still, check with your local Disney Store, or -- as a last
    resort -- give the Disney Gallery in Disneyland's New Orleans Square
    a call. Should you need additional help, drop me a line and I'll get
    you the publisher's name, address, publication date, etc. )
    
    	As for your joke about putting Abe out on Tom Sawyer's Island
    to " lecture passing guests, " sorry -- you're too late. As part of
    the construction of the " Fantasmic " water pageant, all of the AA
    figures -- as well as scenes -- that lined Frontierland's Rivers of
    America have * ALREADY * been overhauled. I'm told that some of the
    newer figures that the Imagineers placed in the Indian village 
    sequence are now frighteningly realistic.
    
    	Take -- fer instance -- the brave on horseback who's been standing
    at the water's edge for 36 years now, slowly raising his arm to say 
    " How " to passing boaters ? Well, he -- and his horse -- have been 
    replaced by a set of much more realistic robotic figures. Now, as the
    " Mark Twain " and other vessels cruise past, this native American 
    waves in a naturalistic and dignified manner. I've also been told that
    -- as the Disneyland railroad passes through the Indian village --
    this same brave makes a quarter turn in the saddle, then waves to the
    passengers on the train ! ( Frankly, this part sounds kind of
    unbelievable. Is anyone going to Disneyland anytime soon ? If so, 
    could you grab a train or take a cruise on the " Columbia " and give
    us a first hand account about the alleged charms of these new figures ? )
    
    	Tom Sawyer's Island has also been rehabbed. I'm told that -- as
    they were building the new on-the-island support facilities for the
    " Fantasmic " water pageant -- Disney basically redid everything on 
    the island. I'm even told that a new cave has been added to compliment
    the original two -- though where it might be ( And where you'll come 
    out as you're exploring it ), I just don't know.
    
    	Speaking of " Fantasmic, " it had its " soft opening " last Friday
    night. Though Disney didn't make any official announcement 'til just
    minutes before the show started, word had leaked hours earlier. By 8:45
    p.m., some 2000 people were already lining the bank of the Rivers of 
    America. Michael Eisner was also in attendance, viewing the proceedings
    from the balcony of the Disney Gallery.
    
    	And what did folks think ? Well, even though Disney didn't deliver 
    on  * ALL * the illusions they'd hyped in the cover story in the latest
    issue of  " Disney News " magazine, I still heard that was truly one
    hell of an amazing show. The dragon from " Sleeping Beauty " -- that
    sets the river ablaze with its fiery breath -- was a particular hit
    with the crowds attending the preview. ( Parents visiting Disneyland
    with really small children may want to think carefully about easily
    frightened youngsters to see " Fantasmic. " I told that the dragon's
    dramatic appearance terrified a lot of small people and -- a full 15
    minutes after the show ended -- parents were still trying to calm their
    kids down. So be warned : Just like they say on those really gruesome
    made-for-TV movies, Mickey's battle with the dragon may be too intensive
    for the itty bitties. ANYWHO ... )
    
    	I'm told that Disney also held several other " sneak previews " for
    " Fantasmic. " Evidently, there were additional public performances on
    Sunday and Monday night. The first un-official public unveiling will
    be tomorrow night, when LA disc jockeys ( And TV star wanna-bees ) Mark
    and Brian host a special preview party for 2000 lucky listeners.
    
    	The very next night, us regular joes can get in to see the really
    official opening of " Fantasmic. " Is anybody out there planning on 
    taking in Disneyland's water pageant on its opening weekend ? If so, 
    can we get a detailed review ? I * HATE * this second-hand stuff.
    
    	" SNOW WHITE'S " ABRUPT ENDING : Look again at the end sequences
    of all of Fantasyland's dark rides. Though all but " Snow White " have
    capping scenes, they don't always accurately reflect the ending of the
    Disney film they were based on. " Mr. Toad's Wild Ride " sends you to
    hell, " Alice in Wonderland " ends with a recreation of the tail end of
    the Mad Hatter's tea party sequence from that film ( A scene from the
    middle of the movie, if I remember correctly ), " Peter Pan's Flight "
    does close with Wendy & Peter getting ready to sail Captain Hook's pirate
    ship back to London, but not the Darling children's return to the
    nursery.
    
    	I'm sure you see my point by now. Given the budget they had to
    work with, the space they had available to build the attraction in as well
    various other factors like needed ride capacity, etc., the Imagineers
    did the best they could at turning these Disney animated classics into
    ride-through attractions. In the translation process, sometimes things
    -- like storyline wrap-up scenes -- got lost in the mix. 
    
    	If it's an consolation, the new versions of these old Disneyland
    favorites that were built as part of the " New Fantasyland " in the 
    early '80's are a little more faithful to the original films. And the
    one * REALLY * new attraction that was created for Fantasyland during
    this makeover -- " Pinocchio's Daring Journey " -- deliberately does
    have an ending sequence that mirrors the end of the original film. So
    -- who knows ? Maybe when Disney gets around to re-revamping Fantasy-
    land ( Tenatively scheduled for 2015, or so I'm told ), maybe then Snow
    White will finally get carried off by her heroic robotic prince.
    
    	" FLYING SAUCERS " : Nope. The new saucers * WON'T * be
    hovercrafts. Just like the original saucers, they'll be rough plastic
    discs / bumper car kind of vehicle that ride on a cushion of air that's
    forced up through holes in the floor. Only -- this time around --
    Disney hopes to avoid the maintenance nightmares they had with the
    original saucer attraction by having the forced-air-grill inside a
    building. Also -- given that the ride area will be on the second 
    floor of the " Carousel of Progress " -- Disney maintenance people will
    now have easy access to the saucer's support machinery, should it need
    repairs.
    	
    	" SPACE MOUNTAIN " MAKE-OVER : Well -- if both Disneyland and 
    Walt Disney World follow Euro Disney's lead -- Both stateside Space 
    Mountain attractions will be remade in the Jules Verne tradition. 
    Their exteriors will be refitted with bronze and copper plating, 
    giving these massive buildings a Victorian-yet-somehow-timeless look.
    
    	Inside, look for some Vernesque story elements to folded into the
    mix. When Space Mountain becomes Discovery Mountain, the attraction's
    story line will be vaguely based on Verne's space travel classic,
    " From the Earth to the Moon. " Guests will now queue up to board 
    bullet-shaped coaster vehicles. As they leave the load area and chug
    up the " launch " hill, guests will get the impression that they're
    being loaded inside a huge cannon. 
    
    	As they reach the top of the ride hill, they will be bombarded
    with bright lights, thundering sound and smoke -- suggesting that they
    have been " fired " out of this huge cannon. From this point forward,
    it'll be pretty much " Space Mountain " as we already known -- a dark
    thrill ride on a barely visible coaster. What might make things
    different will be the stylized comets, moons and stars we'll encounter
    as we swoop around the turns. ( Fans of the " Horizons " pavilion in
    EPCOT Center might recall the moon-with-a-rocket-ship-sticking-out-of-
    one-eye ? Expect lots of stuff like that lining the track ) One big 
    different -- and Disney is experimenting with this idea, even as we 
    speak -- is putting a loop in the middle of the track, which would
    definitely add a new twist to an old favorite.
    
    	All in all, we're still talking about the same sort of experience
    one always gets when one rides " Space Mountain " now. Only -- in this
    version -- you get a little style with your screams.
    
    	That about cover your questions, Dave ?
    
    					jrh
     

    
    
    >As for your joke about putting Abe out on Tom Sawyer's Island
    >to " lecture passing guests, " sorry -- you're too late. As part of
    >the construction of the " Fantasmic " water pageant, all of the AA
    >figures -- as well as scenes -- that lined Frontierland's Rivers of
    >America have * ALREADY * been overhauled. I'm told that some of the
    >newer figures that the Imagineers placed in the Indian village 
    >sequence are now frighteningly realistic.
    
    I traveled around the river on the Mike Fink keel boat right after they
    re-opened the river, and I didn't see any "frighteningly realistic"
    figures.  I could be wrong (because it's been gone quite a while), but
    it looked to me like they just re-used stuff from the old "Mine Train
    Through Nature's Wonderland" attraction.  There were deer that flicked
    their tails, raccoons and beavers that moved a little, a bear that
    scratched itself on a tree, but nothing I'd call spectacular.
    
    >Now, as the "Mark Twain" and other vessels cruise past, this native 
    >American waves in a naturalistic and dignified manner. I've also been told
    >that -- as the Disneyland railroad passes through the Indian village --
    >this same brave makes a quarter turn in the saddle, then waves to the
    >passengers on the train ! ( Frankly, this part sounds kind of
    >unbelievable. Is anyone going to Disneyland anytime soon ? If so, 
    >could you grab a train or take a cruise on the " Columbia " and give
    >us a first hand account about the alleged charms of these new figures ? )
    
    I did notice that this figure waves to the passing boats (sort of a
    Queen Elizabeth "parade wrist-wave"), but I certainly didn't see him
    turn in the saddle, either from the boat or the train.  It is possible
    that I may have missed it, though.
    
    - David
     

    
    RE : .156
    
    	Thanks for the info regarding the upgraded figures Disney installed
    along the Rivers of America. Sorry if you think I over-sold how
    realistic the newer " critters " were. But I'm just passing along info
    that I get from my Imagineer friends. Usually, they're pretty reliable
    -- though, of course, they * DO * tend shamelessly promote the projects
    that they helped work on. This might explain the over-inflated
    descriptions I got of what -- judging by what you saw -- sound like
    fairly pedestrian AA figures.
    
    	And -- yes ! -- you're right. A lot of the newer " critters " now
    lining the Rivers of America did originally start out as robotic
    animals that lined the route of Frontierland's old " Mine Train through
    Nature's Wonderland. " ( Mind you, these aren't those exact same
    robotic figures. Those were dismantled and/or destroyed long ago. 
    These are 90's remakes of the original Marc Davis designed figures,
    only with sturdier drive motors and more realistic animation this
    time around. ) I think it's great that Disney occassionally does
    this, reaching back into its past for something that adds a little
    extra fun to a modern day attraction ...
    
    	As for the brave-turning-to-wave-to-the-train, the Imagineer
    who gave me this information originally swears that this figure was
    designed to do just that and that infa-red switches have been
    installed along the Disneyland railroad trek so that -- as the
    train passes through the beam -- the Indian robotic figure " knows "
    to turn in that direction. However, just because something's designed
    to do something doesn't mean that it'll actually ever do it. ( Remember
    how much Disney hyped the holographic apple that the evil witch was
    supposed to hold out toward guests as they road through the renovated
    version of " Snow White's Scary Adventures " ?  " It'll look so real, "
    they said, " that guests will be * compelled * to reach out and try
    to grab it. " Guests who've ridden the ride might remember a fleeting
    glimpse of a smeary looking holographic witch waving an out-of-focus
    apple at them. The final effect -- just like the similiarly hyped
    disappearing Blue Fairy in the final scene of " Pinocchio's Daring
    Journey " -- just never worked out as the Imagineers planned. Such
    is life ... )
    
    	Anyway .. I guess the only way to get definitive info about this
    is to have one of our California noters swing over to Disneyland and
    -- during your day at the park -- ride the railroad 'round the park
    and keep an eye out for our Indian friend. Does he -- in fact -- turn
    and wave to the passing passengers ? Inquiring Disney dweeb minds 
    wanna know !
    
    	Oh -- and for whoever was asking about the show-times for the
    " Fantasmic " water pageant. I'm told that the show will run twice 
    a night usually, spaced between the two nightly Main Street Electrical
    Parades as well as the " Fantasy in the Sky " fireworks. Once the park
    goes to extended summer hours, the plan is to have three nightly 
    showings ... Of course, given that Disney hasn't yet run the show
    continuously two-shows-a-night. They may yet find that -- due to 
    all of the personnel and technology involved in presenting " Fantasmic "
    -- two shows a night may be all they're capable of. Plus -- of course
    -- rain and/or heavy winds would also prevent them from running the
    show. 
    
    	Just to be safe, my advice is -- before you drive all the way
    out to Anaheim -- give Disneyland's Guest Services Office a call and
    ask them if " Fantasmic " is running that evening. They should be 
    able to clue you in to the show times as well as suggesting the best
    time to get down to the river bank to snag a primo viewing spot.
    
    	Any other questions ?
    						jrh

    
    >The final effect -- just like the similiarly hyped
    >disappearing Blue Fairy in the final scene of " Pinocchio's Daring
    >Journey " -- just never worked out as the Imagineers planned. Such
    >is life ... )
    
    Well, there *is* a disappearing Blue Fairy at the end of "Pinocchio's
    Daring Journey", and it looks pretty neat to me.  Was it supposed to be
    something other that what it is now, or did they eventually get the
    effect they wanted to work?
    
    - David
    
    
    

    
    RE : . 158
    
    	What the Imagineers discovered the hard way was that holograms
    -- at least the early types -- only work when viewed from a specific
    angle. A little bit to the left or a little bit to the right, and the
    effect's completely blown ( See earlier note for description of 
    smeary witch holding out-of-focus apple ).
    	In the case of the Blue Fairy in the end sequence of " Pinocchio's
    Daring Journey, " though the figure had been designed to appear solid,
    then disappear in a cloud of fiber optic " fairy dust, " Disney learned
    that -- as guests rode into the room in their vehicle -- the effect
    fell apart the further the vehicle got into the room.
    	So now -- the instant your ride vehicle rolls into the finale of
    " Pinocchio's Daring Journey " -- the blue fairy begins to disappear.
    Many guests -- not knowing what to look for -- miss this effect
    entirely. Which is a shame, given that -- if you'll look back through
    the promotional literature Disney put out to hype the " New Fantasy-
    land " -- the solid-blue-fairy-that-disappears-before-your-eyes-in-
    a-burst-of-fibre-optic-fairy-dust was one of the big selling points
    of this attraction.
    	I'm told -- what with some of the newer holographic technology
    ( I'm told that -- thanks to this technology -- there are some free
    floating spirits in Euro Disneyland's Phantom Manor that look eeriely
    solid ) -- the Imagineers hope someday to get clearance from Disney
    management to go back into " Snow White's Scary Adventure " as well
    as " Pinocchio's Daring Journey " and redo their holograms. However,
    given how tight Eisner & co. are with a buck ( And given that the
    general public doesn't realize that this effect don't work ), that
    seems rather unlikely.
    
    	So hang in there for 2015 for the new * NEW * Fantasyland. By 
    then, I'm sure they'll get their holograms to work right as well as
    remember to tack on those crucial ending scenes.
    
    	Any other questions ?
    					jrh 

    
    >So now -- the instant your ride vehicle rolls into the finale of
    >" Pinocchio's Daring Journey " -- the blue fairy begins to disappear.
    >Many guests -- not knowing what to look for -- miss this effect
    
    I noticed that the effect always seemed to occur right when my car
    first entered the room, which was somewhat annoying to those of us who 
    wanted a better look at it.  Eventually I concluded that it must be that 
    way for a reason, and I was never going to make it half-way across the room
    before the fairy disappeared.  Oh, well -- I'm sure they'll get around
    to fixing it up in another 19 years or so.
    
    - David
    
    
    

    Could someone please explain what "Fantasmic" is all about?  Is it
    open at the moment?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Karen
    (15 days and counting...)

re to <<< Note 8.161 by XNOGOV::KAREN "when you wish upon a star..." >>>

>    Could someone please explain what "Fantasmic" is all about?  Is it
>    open at the moment?

    Karen,
    
     the following spoilers on "Fantasmis" is fron USENET.  Press return if
    you really want to know ;^)
    
    Claude
    

Article: 7896
Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney
From: [email protected] (Tigger)
Subject: Fantasmic! (spoilers)
Sender: [email protected] (The News System)
Organization: Pomona College
Date: 16 May 92 17:37:28 PDT
 
Fatasmic! is, well, fatasmic!  If you have any chance to come see
it, by all means do.  I overhead one of the people next to me last
night express the opinion that Fantasmic! alone was worth the price
of admission.  I felt more or less the same way, but then I have an
annual pass...  :-)
 
Now, the rest of this is spoilers, so if you are going to be seeing
Fantasmic! soon, go on to the next article now...
 

 
Okay.  Fantasmic! is a twenty five minute show that is supposed to
be a dream from Mickey's imagination.  It is held at one end of Tom
Saywer's Island, both on the island and in the bend of the Rivers
of America.  The dream starts out sweet, but then evil things invade
Mickey's dream.  In the end, Mickey finds that his powers of
imagination are stronger than the evil, and he triumphs.
 
The show is quite spectacular, with live cast members, fountains,
lights, lasers, fireworks, floats, audio-anamatronics, fire, a
powerful sound system and a very interesting rear projection system
that uses a thin sheet of water from one of the fountains as a screen.
Now, I'm a bit jaded having seen some really great light shows at
rock concerts.  And I've seen my share of fireworks and 'dancing waters'
shows.  In fact, the only effect used in Fantasmic! that I haven't
seen before is the projection system.  But to pull it all together
into one show amazed even me.
 
Fantasmic! starts out innocently enough with some spotlights and
Mickey orchestrating some fountains with colored lights set beneath
them to music.  The the projection system turns on, and we get some
stuff reminiscent of _Fantasia_.  In fact, some of the footage *is*
from _Fantasia_.  In particular, part of the sequence with the fish
with the long clear tail is used (from "The Nutcracker Suite", I
think) and part of "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" is used as well.
Several floats wander down the river with cast members as Belle and
the Beast from _Beauty and the Beast_, Ariel and Eric from _The
Little Mermaid_, and Aurora and the prince whose name escapes me
from _Sleeping Beauty_.
 
Then things start to get a little weird.  The projection system
turns on and plays a sequence with elephants that reminds me of
the "Hephalumps and Woozles" sequence from _Winnie the Pooh and
the Blustery Day_.  But it wasn't the same, and there were no
woozles or honey.  The Colombia also sails by during this part of
the show, masquerading as Captain Hook's pirate ship.  There is
a big battle going on with cast members up in the rigging and
swinging around on ropes.  One even falls from one of the masts to
an airbag on deck.  Of course Peter Pan is flying around and there
is a big crocodile float following the ship.
 
The the witch from _Snow White_ shows up and starts using the
projection system to summon evil things.  Ursula the sea witch
from _The Little Mermaid_ joins in both on "screen" and with a
float.  Chernobog, the demon from the "Night on Bald Mountain"
sequence in _Fantasia_ makes an appearance, too.  Finally,
Mallificent (sp?), the witch from _Sleeping Beauty_, crashes
the party and becomes a dragon, first with the projection system
and then with what is probably the largest audio-anamatronic
figure ever made unless the dragon under the castle at EuroDisney
is bigger.  The dragon actually breaths fire, and the river catches
flame too, using the same technique that I first saw used for
the volcano in front of the Mirage hotel in Las Vegas.
 
At this point Mickey steps in with a sparkling sword to get things
back under control.  The sparkles fly from his sword to attack the
dragon and the projection system shows all of the villans getting
zapped by lightning.  Mickey triumphantly appears high up on the
island in his sorcerer's apprentice outfit with lasers streaming
every which way.  The Mark Twain steamboat passes by with all of
the good characters from earlier in the show as well as a number of
others dancing around.  After it passes, there is a grand finale
with fireworks, the fountains with their colored lights, and the
flaming river water again.
 
The only bad thing about Fantasmic! was trying to find a good
place to see it.  There are three fountain/light/firework/projector
units around the tip of the island, so you can see the show from
most of the riverbank in both Frontierland and New Orleans Square.
However, the stage is on the tip of the island right behind the
middle unit, so you really need to be there.  As with the parades,
there are accomodations for people trying to get through the area,
and everyone who wants to see the show basically just crowds along
the river bank or behind the walkway.  This means that to get a
good spot you have to get there *before* the end of the previous
show and take the place of someone who is leaving.  No problem
except that you have to see the end of the previous show and then
wait for an hour.  But since people regularly wait two hours for
a five minute ride, that shouldn't be a problem.  Because the land
right around the riverbank is pretty flat you are likely to have
an obstructed view unless you are in the first couple of ranks of
people along the river railing.  Unfortunately, it appears that
those people get pretty wet from all the water floating around
in the air from the projection system.  I ended up on the bridge
in front of Pirates of the Carribean, which was high enough to
afford an unobstructed view over the crowd below and far enough
back from the river that I didn't get wet at all.  Frankly I think
that was the best "seat" in the house.
 
Note that there is a line that will get you into a seating area
that lines up along Big Thunder Pass.  I couldn't quite tell from
my vantage point on the bridge, but it appears that those people
got to sit in chairs arranged in the dock area used by the Mark
Twain and the Colombia.  Not the dry dock by the Haunted Mansion,
but the loading dock in Frontierland.  However, while those people
got chairs, the dock is to far up the riverbank to provide a very
good view of the show, at least as far as I could tell.
 
Probably the best place from which to view Fantasmic! would be the
balcony of The Disney Gallery above Pirates of the Carribean.  And
there were indeed people out there.  However, it was closed off and
when I asked I was told "Tonight it's VIP-only.  Management."  I made
a crack about being a minor shareholder not being enough to be
considered a VIP, and wandered off.  But you can bet that I'll be
checking it out again as a viewing area next time.  It may have been
VIPs just last night, or it may go all weekend or even for a few
weekends.  But sooner or later...
 
--
|  Greg Orman                              [email protected]  |
|  Yes, I really do ride a motorcycle and wear a Mickey Mouse watch.  |

    re: .157
    
>>    	As for the brave-turning-to-wave-to-the-train, the Imagineer
>>    who gave me this information originally swears that this figure was
>>    designed to do just that ...
    
    	He does.  I was there yesterday specifically to check it out.
    
    tom
    

    Thanks very much, Claude.  Sounds great!  
    
    Bye for now,
    
    Karen

    
    	So -- now that their new night-time Frontierland waterfront show
    has opened to rave reviews -- what do Disneyland employees have to say
    about " Fantasmic ! " ? Not-so-surprisingly, they aren't too thrilled
    with this $ 30 million water-and-light show.
    	Don't get me wrong. Only a grinch could not gape in wonder as 
    " Fantasmic ! " gets underway. The problem Disneyland employees have
    with the show is that this new show may be * TOO * popular with guests.
    	Stories are already coming out of Anaheim of people lining up along
    the banks of the Rivers of America a full * THREE HOURS * before the
    first show gets underway. Disneyland employees try their best to keep
    the traffic flow moving as show-time nears, but -- what with " Pirates
    of the Carribbean, " " Splash Mountain, " " Big Thunder Mountain, " and
    " The Haunted Mansion " already on this side of the park -- things can
    get pretty crowded around these parts as the sun starts to set.
    	So what should you do if you're visiting Disneyland and want to get
    primo seats for " Fantasmic ! " ? Well -- if you're visiting the park
    on a night when the water-and-light show is being presented two or
    three times -- Disneyland employees advise you to catch the latest show
    possible. The early shows tend to be swamped with parents and children
    ( Which leads to lots of Dads hoisting their kids up on their shoulders
    so Junior can see the show ... Which leaves us under-sized adults with
    little or no view. Phooey ! ).
    	SPECIAL NOTE TO PARENTS : Disneyland reports getting a lot of
    complaints from parents about their kids getting severely freaked by
    the appearance of the dragon in the show. If you're planning on
    attending " Fantasmic ! " with your family, you are * STRONGLY *
    advised to prep your children accordingly. There's nothing worse than
    trying to deal with a frightened, hysterical child in the middle of a
    closer-than-close crowd.
    	Also -- those of you who plan to get there early and get good seats
    right down by the water -- be warned that the mist curtains Disney uses
    to project its film on tend to soak those folks who hug the railing
    down by the Rivers of America. These same people tend to get
    uncomfortably warm when the dragon sets the river on fire ... Plus --
    if you get there early enough to get a railing side view -- you * HAVE
    TO * sit down throughout the entire performance. ( Hmmmn ... Sounds a
    lot like the crowd control rules that Disney uses at EPCOT Center for
    " Illuminations, " don't it ? ) All in all, it might be wiser to try 
    and snag a place just behind the ropes outside of the " Fantasmic ! "
    seating zone. True, you have to stand for the whole show -- but you
    don't get wet or hot ... And the view's not too bad either !
    	What particularly concerns Disneyland management is that they're
    getting crowds that they can barely manage now around the Rivers of 
    America now for " Fantasmic ! " and this is a time when attendance 
    is fairly light ! What's it going to be like around Frontierland / New
    Orleans come night-time in July, when the park's fuller-than-full ?
    	Park management is supposedly working over-time trying to come up
    with solutions to this more-popular-than-they-expected show. Among the
    solutions being considered ... having * FOUR * shows a night of " Fan-
    tasmic ! " during the summer, instead of the currently scheduled three.
    	
    	Walt Disney World visitors shouldn't feel * TOO * put out about the
    Florida parks not having their own version of " Fantasmic ! " Due to
    the popularity of the Anaheim show, word comes out of WDI that an
    Orlando version of " Fantasmic ! " is already in the words. It's
    currently slated to go in the studio theme park, replacing the
    previously announced Andrew Lloyd Webber " Noah's Ark " water
    extravaganza.
    
    	And -- finally -- you didn't hear this from me, but ... Disney is
    now planning on replacing Disneyland's " Main Street Electrical Parade
    " with an Anaheim version of WDW's " Spectro-Magic " parade. The
    original time-table was to promote the summer of 1993 as " Your last
    chance ever to see the Electrical Parade. " However -- what with all
    these crowds over in Frontierland -- many Disney execs are campaigning 
    to make * THIS * summer the last summer the " Main Street Electrical
    Parade " rolls through Disneyland.
    
    	Why for ? Their reasoning that -- what with the new " Spectro-
    Magic " parade rolling down Main Street as well as the then-one-year-old
    " Fantasmic ! " water-and-light show in Frontierland -- maybe the
    crowds will be more evenly spread around the property after dark, instead
    of clumping in and around Frontierland / New Orleans Square like they
    do at night now.
    
    	No final decision will be made 'til the real summer crowds start
    hitting the park come late June / early July ... But " Main Street
    Electrical Parade " fans should take note. The parade's days ( I mean
    nights ) at Disneyland * ARE * numbered. If it doesn't disappear this
    summer, it definitely goes next summer. 

Article: 8241
From: [email protected] (Tom Tanida)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney
Subject: Disneyland price increase
Date: 5 Jun 92 00:49:40 GMT
Sender: [email protected]
 
Here's an article from the business news on CompuServe.
I might be interested in hearing how much the annual passes are now.
 
-Tom
=========================================================================
[email protected]
(Keeper of the rec.arts.disney Frequently Asked Questions list)
Note: "This limited-edition message will be available for a short time only,
      never again to be re-released in its original form."
 
OTC  06/04 1549  DISNEYLAND RAISES ADMISSION PRICES FOR ADULTS BY ...
 
ANAHEIM, CA (JUNE 4) UPI - Disneyland bumped Thursday its adult admission price
by 4.5 percent, to $28.75 from $27.50, in the face of predictions of a sharp
fall-off in tourism.
   Disneyland, which attracted an estimated 11.6 million visitors last year,
also boosted the price for a ticket for children aged 3 to 11 to $23, up 50
cents. The tickets are good for all rides and attractions.
   The price hikes come following the introduction of the park's "Fantasmic!" -
a nighttime water and pyrotechnics show which carries a price tag estimated at
between $30 million and $70 million. Audiences have been lining up for hours in
advance of the show, which stars Mickey Mouse and uses water mists to create the
appearance of three-dimensional characters.
   The move also comes following gloomy forecasts by local economists, who have
estimated the Los Angeles area will lose between $1 billion and $2 billion over
the next year as a result of tourists avoiding the region because of the recent
riots.
   However, the area around Disneyland was largely untouched by the rioting. The
city of Anaheim is about 25 miles southeast of South-Central Los Angeles.
   Attendance at Disneyland, the nation's second biggest theme park after the
Disney World complex in Orlando, Fla., fell an estimated 10 percent last year,
with the recession and the Persian Gulf War combining to keep away tourists.
   However, Walt Disney Co. cited a rebound at its theme parks as a key factor
in a 30 percent increase in its earnings to $164.1 million, or 31 cents a share,
in its second quarter ended March 31. Second-quarter revenues rose to $1.66
billion, a 15 percent increase from $1.44 billion in the year-ago period.
   It was the second quarter in a row that Disney has posted a profit increase
following four quarters of declines as lower levels of domestic travel and the
recession had hurt Disney, particularly at its theme parks.

    
    Fantasmic.... Was definitely a fantasmic show!!! However It is truely
    a nightmare!!! We were there on Sunday 5/31/92. The Fantasmic Show
    was scheduled for 9pm, 10:30pm, and 11:45pm.  ELP was also at 8:45
    and 10:30. People were lining up at 6:00; BUT I wonder if alot of this
    had to do with DL itself? They had the roped areas setup at 6:00. Not
    only for Fantasmic but also for ELP. That meant you hit a major block
    trying to get from Space Mtn side of the park across the main area
    (E.L.P. comes up main street around the side of the castle/matterhorn
    and back by Videopolis.... So you had one guantlet to get by there.
    
    The roped areas from Critter Country, New Orleans Square, up thru
    Frontier Land were amazing. There is so much open space there;
    yet they had one small 5-6' wide path open for walking space. People
    were camped out on blankets in the front most area around 6pm.
    It was extermely annoying to get from the matterhorn over to BTMR
    and then over to Blue Bayou Restaurant for a sit down dinner. People
    were everywhere..... We got out from dinner and got up onto the bridge
    just as people were leaving from the 9pm showing It lasts about an
    1/2 hour. We had 1 hr wait till the second show. Some people were
    leaving the bridge railing just as we walked up. So we had a great
    spot; except a lamp post was in the way. Didn't really effect the
    show, but will show up in the photos. People kept pushing in; we had
    4-5 deep in th roped off area on the bridge. You couldn't move in
    that whole area in the park after the first show till they moved out
    and the second crowed moved in. Then when the second show finished
    again there was no one to move till we all got out and the third
    crowd moved in. People actually waited for us to move away also.
    Basically the abilaity to get to from rides from 6pm to midnight
    is significantly hampered. I really wouldn't want to wait for the
    first show.... A trick.... plan on going for the second show;
    wait till the first show has started; and then meander over there
    and slowly stroll thru the walking paths (they make you keep moving)
    then prepare to push into a spot as the first crowd exits at teh
    end of the first show... LOts of fun... oops don't forget this
    is "The Happiest Place on Earth! :^(". Another WARNING!!!!!! They
    form a blockade of employees to cause all people on the bridge and
    critter country side of the rivers to go over the bridge and out
    towards mainstreet via adventure land and all people from the
    bridge towards frontierland to head the other direction.... So
    you might want to take that into consideration on where you're
    headed after the show...
    
    As for the balcony outside of the Gallery! It is definitely
    the best spot to be.... However all three showings when we were
    there were reserved for VIPS. They did mention that eventually
    when the VIPness runs out that it could possibly become available
    for general public. It may also require tickets that you get
    ahead of time. Since it is conviently located near Splash MTn
    and Pirates; and not many people go up there..... You might
    want to check very early in the day... "Is it going to be open
    for general public or VIP; if general public is it first come
    first available? IF VIP; is it all shows or just the earlier ones?
    It would be worth it to get a chair seat on the balcony! 
    
    
    More on our day at DL to come later!
    
    		- Annie
    

    Rep to <<< Note 8.167 by BROKE::LUND >>>

>    Fantasmic.... Was definitely a fantasmic show!!! However It is truely
>    a nightmare!!! 
    
    And I'm  sure  it'll only become more of one too, since there is a full
    page add for  it  in  the latest issue of Disney News on page 10, which
    should only help to stir up any pent up demands to visit Disneyland.
    
    Claude

    
    There was a short special on Fantasmic (22.5 minutes) on the Disney
    channel night recently. The creator and the director and the park
    president all talked about it. They said that one option being strongly
    considered is adding a 4th show. 
    
    They had a short video of parts of it, maybe two minutes, and it looks
    amazing. Sort of like a mix of Illuminations, the ELP and pieces of
    some of the exhibits like Little Mermaid and B+TB. 
    
    Jim
    
    

    Having just returned from Disneyland, I can also confirm the magic of
    Fantasmic!  It is an incredible show!  Now I realise what all the fuss
    is about.
    
    We saw the last show the night we were there and I've never seen crowds
    like it.  At the end of the show cast members were directing people
    out of the area like it was some military operation.  You just couldn't
    move.
    
    I'm really sorry to hear that the Electrical Parade will be going away.
    That was something else we saw for the first time that night and really
    loved.  I can't understand why Disney want to change such a good thing!
    
    Karen

    
    One disturbing phenomenon I noticed about the Fantasmic! crowds:
    
    When I first witnessed it, on Memorial Day, the crowds were very well
    behaved.  Everyone sat down, which meant that even the people in the
    very back rows had a good shot at an unimpeded view.  When I saw it
    again last Friday, everyone was standing up, and if you weren't in the
    first few rows you spent the whole time craning your neck to see over
    people.  (And the 9:00 show didn't start until 9:50!).
    
    We attended the first annual Teddy Bear Classic held at the Disneyland
    Hotel last weekend.  Annette Funicello was there, offering the latest
    in her line of stuffed bears for sale.  The surprise guest at the auction 
    was Phyllis Diller.  All in all, I liked the WDW Teddy Bear and Doll
    Convention a lot more.
    
    - David

    
    This isn't really related to Disneyland. But -- given that this is
    the closest thing we've got to a " Disney Californian News " file --
    I guess this will have to do. ANYWAY ...
    
    	If you happen to be over in Glendale over the next month or so, 
    make a point of rolling along Flower Street ( Particularly 1401 Flower
    Street and its immediate area ... But you didn't get this address from
    me, okay ? ) As you're driving through, look for the large bare steel
    structure that's going up. If you're lucky, you may wander by on a day
    where cars go whizzingh down this structure -- headed for certain doom.
    
    	So what's going on here ? Well -- after the city of Glendale
    awarded them special construction permits -- WDI will spend the next
    month or so testing the mock-up of Disney-MGM's forthcoming thrill
    ride, " Twilight Zone Tower of Terror. " Plenty cool, eh ? Due to the
    size of the proposed attraction, the Imagineers had no choice but to 
    make these very public tests of their prototypes.
    
    	So here's a once-in-a-life-time chance to see the Imagineers at
    work out in the open. So -- if you happen to be in Glendale in August --
    make a point of rolling by that innocent looking industrial park off of
    Flower Street. You may see some amazing sights. And -- by the way -- if
    you happen to take any photos, be sure and send me the copies, okay ?
    
    						jrh
    
    

    
    	" Haunted Mansion " fans should take note. Disneyland's version --
    which celebrates its 25th anniversary next summer -- will be
    under-going a bit of a rehab sometime this fall. Don't worry, " Doom
    Buggy " fans -- we're not talking a tremendous overhaul here. Just a
    few changes in a couple of scenes toward the middle of the attraction.
    To be specific :
    
    	MADAME LEOTA : Last spring, Disney's Imagineers experimented with
    a new effect for the seance scene -- whereby the glass ball that held
    Madame Leota's head would seem to float freely above the table. Well,
    after much fussing and fuming, WDI couldn't get the effect to work 
    every time out of the box.
    	Still they wanted to do * SOMETHING * to " plus " this part of the
    show. So -- for the past few months now -- the table that Madame Leota
    sits on has been mysteriously levitating, endlessly rolling in place as
    guests drift by. ( OKay, it's not an immediately noticable new effect,
    but it does a creepy new edge the seance scene. )
    	ANYWAY ... Now that WDI's " First Team " has returned from the 
    successful installation of EDL, they're anxious to tackle this " Talk-
    ing head in the floating ball " trick. Word comes out of Glendale that
    they think they've finally gotten the bugs out and that Leota -- and 
    not just her table -- will be airborne soon.
    	BANQUET SCENE : Look for the party scene to be redressed to 
    specifically suggest a wedding celebration. For -- as you 'round the
    corner -- you'll now enter ...
    	THE BRIDAL SUITE : Yep -- borrowing a page from EDL's " Phantom 
    Manor " ( As well as the storyline originally created for Disneyland's
    " Haunted Mansion " ), look for this room to be redressed as the
    bride's room. Only -- this time around -- forget about the clear
    plastic bride with the red glowing heart. I'm told that the Imagineers
    are planning on using one of the free floating holographs that they
    came up with for " Phantom Manor " in here. It should make for one
    truly errie effect.
    	And when might this rehab be complete ? Well, if everything goes
    according to plan, we'll be able to get our first peak at a somewhat
    improved " Haunted Mansion " at Disneyland on -- you guessed it --
    Halloween.
    
    	P.S.  There was also talk about Vincent Price -- who did the
    narration for EDL's " Phantom Manor " -- coming in to do an all-new
    spiel for Disneyland's " Haunted Mansion. " However, I'm told that
    Mr. Price's health is failing. As well, there are a lot of Imagineers
    who don't want Paul Free's original narration replaced. So, the
    current plan is for the Disney Voices Department ( Yes, Disney really
    does have an office that keeps track of actors that provide voices for
    their characters and attractions. And -- for the most part -- they do
    a super job of it. Just listen to the sound-alike they chased down for
    Captain Hook's part in " Fantasmic. " That guy does a dead-on perfect
    imitation of Hans Conried's earlier work ... ) to chase down a Frees
    soundalike to do the changed narration of the rehabbed scenes.
    	Any questions ?
    						jrh
    	

    Rep to <<< Note 8.173 by ISLNDS::HILL >>>

>    	MADAME LEOTA : Last spring, Disney's Imagineers experimented with
>    a new effect for the seance scene -- whereby the glass ball that held
>    Madame Leota's head would seem to float freely above the table. Well,
>    after much fussing and fuming, WDI couldn't get the effect to work 
>    every time out of the box.

    Jim,
    
    Couldn't they  use  the  same  type  of  technology  they  used for the
    floating  head  within  a floating Case  of  what's  his  name  in  the
    Adventurers Club Trophy Room in Pleasure Island?
    
    That was some rather  errie  effect  I couldn't figure out how they did
    it.
    
    Claude

    
    >So -- for the past few months now -- the table that Madame Leota
    >sits on has been mysteriously levitating, endlessly rolling in place as
    >guests drift by. ( OKay, it's not an immediately noticable new effect,
    >but it does a creepy new edge the seance scene. )
    
    I thought I'd noticed this as being new, but I chalked it up to my not
    having paid close enough attention on my other trips through the
    mansion.  If they really want to improve the seance scene, they should
    come up with a way of eliminating the far too obvious wires holding
    up all the instruments.  And what's with the weird, space-like doodles
    on the wall?  Are they still there?  They always reminded me of
    something that belonged in the Journey Through Inner Space or Space
    Mountain, not the Haunted Mansion.
    
    >As well, there are a lot of Imagineers who don't want Paul Free's original 
    >narration replaced. 
    
    Why did they replace most of Paul Free's narration in the Pirates of
    the Caribbean?  The narration was re-recorded in several spots (most
    noticeably the talking skull just above the first waterfall), and the
    original voice remains in only one spot that I recall (the "dead men
    tell no tales" spiel that echoes through the caverns as you approach
    the fort vs. ship scene).  If they wanted to change the wording, why
    didn't they have Mr. Frees re-record the narration?  Isn't he still
    alive?
    
    - David
    
    

    re: .175
>                           .  If they wanted to change the wording, why
>   didn't they have Mr. Frees re-record the narration?  Isn't he still
>   alive?
    
    	Unfortunately, Paul Frees has been gone for several years now.
    
    tom

    RE: .173, et al.

    Neat!  Super!  Really looking forward to it!  (And I'll bet you thought
    all I could do was complain in this conference?  ;-)    )

>   a new effect for the seance scene -- whereby the glass ball that held
>   Madame Leota's head would seem to float freely above the table. Well,
>   after much fussing and fuming, WDI couldn't get the effect to work 
>   every time out of the box.

    Gee...why didn't they just call me?  Seriously, I think I have a
    solution and will be interested in hearing how/what WDI solves it.  Can
    you post the results here too, Jim (when *you* find out, of course)?


    Concerning the dear, departed Mr. Frees, and voice reproduction in
    general...

    This looks to be an on-going problem for Disney.  I've often wondered
    how they kept their audio "masters" for ride overhauls.  With the advent
    of CD technology it is a simple matter to convert their masters from (I'm
    guessing) tape to CD and store "perfect" copies indefinitely (although
    what they've done with standard oxide audio tapes all these years,
    especially analogue duplicating, is anybody's guess).  Regardless of
    their soundtrack storage technique, the vocal talent *will* eventually
    become a problem due to age of the actor, death, or other extenuating
    circumstances.

    Perhaps some of our "hardware gear-heads"    :-)      can help me out
    here...would it be possible using some combination of signal
    processing, sampling, etc. to recreate/synthesize the original voice? 
    Sure, inflections and such like would be difficult (if not impossible),
    and the actor's unique "presence"/interpretation/style would seem wooden
    at best by this method, but for patches such as Jim is noting, wouldn't a
    solution like this be a worthwhile investment for WDI?


    David.

    
    RE : The last couple
    
    	Actually, the trouble with creating the " Madame Leota " effect
    is that -- just like the singing busts in the graveyard sequence as
    well as the " Hurry Back " statue in the exit area -- the old version
    of the illusion worked only on stationary items, so that the " Face
    Film " could be projected on the statue's blank features, thereby
    creating a fairly convincing looking talking statue.
    	Now -- in the older version -- the film had to be projected onto
    the front of the blank features. However, the Imagineers have come up
    with a new version of this old favorite. Using a smaller projector as
    well as transluscent plastic, they can actually project an image on 
    the * INSIDE * of the blank features. This is what was done with the
    " Madame Leota, " the singing busts as well as the " Hurry Back " bride
    in EDL's " Phantom Manor. " I'm told that it makes for a much more
    convincing " talking head " illusion.
    	ANYWAY ... Now that the Imagineers have perfected the projected-
    from-within version of this particular effect, now they can monkey
    around a bit with classic old " Haunted Mansion " sequence like the
    seance. First they got " Madame Leota " 's head to talk in perfect
    sync with her now rotating table. Now they have to see if they can
    pull off this classic illusion while having it appear as if the crystal
    ball is floating free in mid-air -- without any visible means of 
    support.
    	Speaking of which : David, you're right. They really do need to
    do something about those wires holding up the musical instruments
    in the seance room. But -- as to your comments about Disney dropping
    a lot of Paul Frees' voice work in " Pirates " ... Well, I think you'd
    best listen closer next time you roll through.
    	I mean, I was riding the thing last week and you can still hear Frees
    work quite prominently throughout the attraction. He's the
    oft-mentioned " Dead Men Tell No Tales " voice in the treasure cave,
    the captain heckling the fortress in the attack scene, the voice of
    the mayor being ducked in the well, the auctioneer in the very next
    scene, as well as one of the voices of the trio singing " Yo Ho " along
    with the burro in the sacking sequence.
    	The one voice that * MAY * have been changed is that of the
    skeleton before the first water fall. And -- if I remember correctly
    -- that was changed because X. Atencio ( The Imagineer who originally
    voiced that figure. X also wrote the " Yo Ho " song as well as help
    program many of the original audio animatronic figures used in the
    ride ) was either too ill or unavailable to do the rewritten dialoge.
    	By the way, the only reason that the " Talking Skull " 's dialogue
    was rewritten was that Disney lawyers insisted that the skull now warn
    guests to keep their hands and feet inside the boat at all times. What
    a bunch of fun guys, huh ?
    	Hope I haven't spoiled your fun by revealing too much about how
    things are done. 
    					jrh

Article 9019 of rec.arts.disney:
Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney
Path: nntpd.lkg.dec.com!news.crl.dec.com!deccrl!caen!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!hmcvax.claremont.edu!jonathan
From: [email protected]
Subject: Window names update
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Lines: 373
Sender: [email protected] (The News System)
Organization: Harvey Mudd College
Date: 26 Sep 92 11:50:38 PDT

Here's yet another update to the Names on Main Street list.

I trust (from the "thank yous" I've been sent) that we do not consider these
postings to be a waste of bandwidth?

Thanks again to all who've sent me info, updates, and corrections!!

There are only a couple  more that we need !

[email protected]

=================================================================

William  Wheeler
John Wise
"Structural Engineers"

 William  Wheeler - Partner of Wheeler and Gray, a structural engineering firm
 which helped build Disneyland.

 John Wies - structural engineer for WED,worked on the design/construction of
 Main Street.  Also served as chief engineer at Disneyland and, after various
 engineering positions at WED and BVCC (Buena Vista Construction Co.), in 1974,
 became the first president of the Community Transportation Services division of
 WDP.

J.S. Hammel
"Consulting Engineer"

 Sam Hammel, was an expert in electrical, civil, and air conditioning
 engineering hired by Walt to help with the Disneyland Project.
 
Richard Irvine

 One time head of WED (Walt's private "Imagineering" Co.). Directed "Victory
 Through Air Power" and helped design the "Zorro" TV series before being
 assigned to the Disneyland project. Irvine was chief of designing and planning
 for the Disney shows at the NY World's Fair and WDW.

Marvin Davis 

 Architect and designer turned imagineer  (Married to Walt's wife's niece,
 Marjorie). worked with Walt on the design of Tom Sawyer's Island.  Marvin was
 one of the only three people who knew about (and had a key the the planning
 room for) Walt' s secret project "EPCOT" in it's infancy (the other two were
 Joe Potter, a retired Air Force general who had worked with Walt at the 1964
 World's Fair in New York.)

Gabriel Scognamillo 

 Art director who worked on Tomorrowland.

Wade B. Rubottom

 Art director who worked on parts of Main Street.

George Patrick

 Motion picture art designer who was responsible for the designing of
 Frontierland.

Wilson Martin 

 A movie set designer who joined WED in 1954, serving as art director and
 project designer on numerous Disneyland attractions including Sleeping Beauty
 Castle, Peter Pan, Nature's Wonderland, Autopia, Monorail, Submarine Voyage,
 Flying Saucers, New Orleans Square, Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion
 and Bear Country.  He did the master planning and layout of Tokyo DL and was
 the architectural designer on Italy and Mexico in EPCOT's World Showcase.

"Evans Gardens
Exotic and rare species
Freeway Collections
Est. 1910"
Morgan Bill Evans

 Hired by Walt as the landscaper of Disneyland. Noted for his design of the
 "Jungle" in the Jungle Cruise attraction. He earned some notoriety by scouring
 Los Angeles looking through new subdivisions and freeway routes looking for
 trees that were to be removed, since Walt was worried about the lack of (larger
 size) trees that would be present at Disneyland's opening date.

"The Busy Hands
Sculpting, Whittling, Soap Carving"
Blain Gibson

 Imagineer, was responsible for nearly every sculpturing task required at
 Disneyland.  Examples include animatronics, and figures.

Milt Albright
"Entrepreneur"
No job too big, no job too small"

 Disney Promotional Executive Came up with the idea of "Holidayland" the only 	
 place at Disneyland that would serve beer.  The idea didn't make it.
 Responsible for the developement of the "Magic Kingdom Club".
 
"The Musical Quill"
X. Atencio

 Xavier Atencio - animator and imagineer, credited with the lyrics for:
  "Yo, Ho (A Pirate's Life for Me)" from "Pirates of the Caribbean"
  "Bear Band Serenade" from "The County Bear Jamboree"
  "Grim Grinning Ghosts" from "The Haunted Mansion"

Van Arsdale France
"Founder and Professor Emeritus
Disney University"

 Just what the window says. Author of "Window on Main Street".
 
"The Far East Import Exotic Art"
Marc Davis, proprietor 

 Disney Animator, one of the "9 old men". One of the finest draftsmen ever to
 work at Disney. Walt cited as his favorite piece of animation the scene from
 Cinderella in which the Fairy Godmother showers Cinderella's ball gown, coach,
 and horses with a flurry of what came to be known as "Disney Dust". He created
 Princess Aurora and the evil Maleficent (both from Snow White) and Cruella
 (from 101 Dalmatians). He helped design Small World, Pirates of the Caribbean,
 The Haunted Mansion, and America Sings.

Gunther Lessing, Esq.

 Head of Disney Legal Dept. for many years. Was noted for being Poncho Villa's
 lawyer at one time.

Youngman & Leopold

 Gordon Youngman was a member of the board of directors of WDP for many years
 and was a partner in the firm of Youngman, Hungate & Leopold.  Instrumental
 during early negotiations for Disneyland.
	
"Ship models by"
Bushman & DaGradi 

 Ken Bushman  - helped design various Disneyland attractions including the cars
 in Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.

 Don  Dagradi - Walt considered Don Dagradi one of his best story men. Wrote the
 screenplay for May Poppins. Started as an animator.

Ken Anderson "Bait Co."

 Ken Anderson was an Art Director for Snow White, Haunted Mansion, and Storybook
 Land. Reported the first official WED employee, with Walt paying Ken's salary
 out of his pocket. Served as Art Director for Fantasyland (and again when it
 was redesigned in the early '80s).

"Surveying and Engineering"
L.H. Roth

 Assistant to Joe Fowler, who was in charge of construction at Disneyland.

"Carpenters and Joiners"
George Mills
Ray Conway
Chas. Alexander

 George Mills was in charge of the mill!

 Ray Conway was in construction at Disneyland.

 Charles Alexander was a field supervisor of the Disneyland Construction Dept.

Emile Kuri
"Interior Decorator"

 Art and set director. Walt's personal interior decorator.
	
"The Royal Care Co."
Chuck Boyajian

 When Disneyland first opened, Walt leased the services of the American Building
 Maintenance Co. to clean the park. When the Janitorial Dept. was started (later
 Custodial), Chuck was hired away from ABM Co. and became superintendant.

Seb Morey
"Taxidermist"

 The original taxidermist for Disneyland, he did much of the work on the Jungle
 Cruise.

Robert Whiskey
"Stone Mason"

 The correct name is Washo.  "Bud" Washo headed the staff shop which performed
 concrete, plaster and plastic work.  Later was manager of Architectural
 Ornamentation for EPCOT's World Showcase.

George Whitney 
"Guns"

 George Whitney's  father owned an amusement park in San Francisco "Whitney's At
 the Beach" . Walt hired him as a consultant for Disneyland.The only one of the
 Disneyland management staff with amusement park experience , he was hired as a
 consultant in charge of ride operations.  He designed the shooting galleries
 and, at one point, was manager of Fantasyland.

"Painting and Paper hanging by"
Larry Smith

 ??????????

"Buena Vista Construction Co."
Jack Rorex
Ivan Martin
Chas. Shockey

 Jack Rorex was head of Construction at the Studio.

 Ivan Martin was a prop maker at the Studio (he worked for Rorex).

 Cash Shockey was in charge of the Studio's Paint Dept.

"Detective Agency
We never sleep"
W. Dennis Cottrell 
"Private Investigator"

 Sequence director for Snow White. Went to South America with Walt in 1941.
 Was vice president of the infant WED and later President of Retlaw Ent., the
 Walt Disney family's business.  An ardent collector of items and info on
 Sherlock Holmes.

"Photographic Studio"
C. Randy Bright, proprietor 

 Vice President of Concept Development, started with the Co. in 1950. Author of
 "Disneyland:Inside Story".  Credited with working nearly every attraction  in
 Disneyland.

"The Disneyland News" 
Edward T. Meck
"Editor in chief"

 One time Publicity Director for Disneyland.
	
"The Plaza School of Art
Instructors"
John Hench
Peter Ellenshaw

 John Hench - Art Director, Imagineer. Still active in an advisory capacity with
 WDI (most recently on Euro Disney).  Began as a sketch artist on Fantasia. 
 Expert in color and its theory.  Moved to WED in 1955 to work on Tomorrowland. 
 He helped plan, design and develop new attractions at Disneyland, worked on the
 master planning, design and development of WDW and EPCOT Center.  H played a
 key role in developing pavilions for Ford and GE at the New York World's Fair.

 Peter Ellenshaw -- Art director and matte painter for many, many films (His
 son, Harrison Ellenshaw, is an equally gifted matte painter and effects
 designer).

Alexander R. Irvine, MD

 Opthamologist, father of Dick Irvine.

The Golden Vaudeville Routines
Wally Boag, proprietor 

 Played Pecos Bill and other characters at the Golden Horseshoe Revue for over
 twenty years. He retired in 1982, 27 years after a 2-week handshake contract
 when DL opened.

Untied Audit Bookkeeping
Accounts Audit
Royal Clark, Manager

 "Mickey" Clark was Walt's personal accountant.  Was VP and Treasurer of WED
 when it was formed, later same for Retlaw Ent.

"The Old Settlers Gold Dredging"
Ed Winger, proprietor

 ??????????

"Decorative Fountains and Waterworks"

Fred Joerger

 ????????????

Christopher D. Miller
"Turkish Baths
Main Street Gym
Massage Parlor"

 Walt's Grandson.

D.S. Gillmore, MD

 Personal friend of Walt's, Chairman of the Upjohn Company, an original
 Disneyland  participant.

E.G. Upjohn, MD

 A later Chairman of the Upjohn Co.

Wathel Rogers
"Men's wear"

 Wathel was an imagineer who was responsible for programming many of the
 audio-animatronics at both Disneyland and Disney World.

Elais Disney
"Contractor
Est. 1895"

 Walt's father.

"Coats and Co."
Calude Coats, Proprietor

Disney artist.

"The Artisans Loft"
Harriet Burns

 Walt's private secretary.

Milady Fashions 
Renie, Dressmaking, Hemstitching & Picating

 Renie Conley was an original Disneyland costume designer.

Real Estate
Houses Bought and Sold
H. Draegart Barnard 

 Walt's ear, nose and throat doctor.

John Louis Catone
Locksmith 

 This is is fairly recent addition. Long-time head of Disneyland Security?

Other names that appear in other parts of the park:

On the facade of Rainbow Ridge, the mythical frontier town that used to grace
the load/unload area for the Rainbow Caverns Mine Train and now can be seen as
part of the set dressing at Bis Thunder (over near the Mexican restaurant)

William P. Bounds
U.S. Marshall

 Bounds is Walt's wife's maiden name and Bill was her father.  At one time, he
 was marshall for an area that included the Nez Perce Indian Reservation in
 Idaho.

In Adventureland, over the Adventureland Bazaar

Oriental Tatooing by
Prof. Harper Goff 

 A motion picture art director, Goff was among the first to be recruited by Walt
 for the Disneyland project.  He designed much of Adventureland and the Jungle
 Cruise.  He also designed the Nautilus submarine for the film "20,000 Leagues
 Under the Sea." He played a key role in the design concept for EPCOT's World
 Showcase.

In Frontierland, above Bonanza Outfitters

Texas Glenn's
Honey Bee Farm 
"Our bees are real hummers" 
Glenn Hicks, Prop. 

?????????

The many references to "ABC," such as ABC Auditing, ABC Typing, ABC
Shorthand and the *A*CME *B*usiness *C*ollege are salutes to the network
that was on of the original investors in Disneyland.

Article 9171 of rec.arts.disney:
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From: mikkelson%[email protected] (snopes)
Subject: Disneyland Keeps Watch Over 'Locals'
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                   Disneyland Keeps Watch Over 'Locals'


Recreation: Security officials say pass-holding teen-agers often cause problems 
at the amusement park.  But young people say they are being harassed.

   ANAHEIM -- On the streets of The Happiest Place on Earth, they are Public 
Enemy No. 1.
   Their crimes include hogging park benches near the Tomorrowland Terrace, 
congregating in large groups and peddling counterfeit admissions to the park.
   These are the "locals," the teen-agers from nearby neighborhoods with annual 
or seasonal passes to Disneyland and their parents' blessings to spend endless 
hours there because it is the safest drug-free hangout around.
   But just about every weekend, the locals engage in nightlong games of cat 
and mouse with security officers.
   The youths say it has become harassment.  Some report being detained for 
hours in a tiny room at the park security office or having their $85 to $185 
passes confiscated with little explanation.  Others say they have registered 
complaints at Disneyland's City Hall without result.
   Disney officials say they have never ejected a young guest without reason.  
Security officials become concerned when a group of teen-agers totals between 
20 and 30 or when teen-agers become belligerent with other guests, said Karl 
Andrews, park security director.
   As a result, Andrews said, some uncooperative locals have been escorted to 
the gate.  Records are kept on teen-agers who have had several run-ins with 
security, and their pictures are pasted in a mug album.
   Of particular concern this summer, Andrews said, are the teen-agers who use 
clear tape and hair spray to transfer the Disneyland ink stamps on their hands 
to friends or buyers outside the park.  The stamps allow guests to re-enter the 
park without charge.
   Last month, a Disney security crackdown on the counterfeit stamps netted 
between 15 and 20 teen-agers.  They were turned over to Anaheim police on 
suspicion of petty theft.
   Disneyland President Jack Lindquist said of the problem with young locals: 
"This isn't the first summer this happens.  For 37 years, we've been 
baby-sitting Anaheim and Orange County young people."  But Lindquist said the 
tide may be turning.

   "I think the word is generally out and around in Orange County that if 
you're looking to raise hell, don't go to Disneyland because you'll be out 
$28.75.  We're not picking on teen-agers.  We're consistent."
   Still, Lindquist said he plans to meet before summer ends with a group of 
the young pass-holders and their parents to discuss the park's security 
concerns.
   "We can't let a small group take over areas of the park," Lindquist said.  
"Part of the success of Disneyland is to mix young and old, married and dating 
couples.  Mixing all those, there is a potential for volatility.
   "For years, parents have felt confident to send their kids here because of 
the security," he said.  "We're proud of that and don't want that to change.  
But we expect something from the kids, too."
   Yet parents, some of whom have organized car pools to take their children 
and friends to and from the park each weekend night, say the same security 
force they have trusted to keep their children safe is enforcing two sets of 
rules: a lenient set for vacationing tourists and another that amounts to the 
bum's rush for those young guests who live just beyond the park's well-kept 
property.
   "Disneyland is on my bad list," said Vicky Young of Anaheim, whose 
15-year-old daughter said she was detained, questioned and escorted out of the 
park late one evening for sitting too long on a park bench.
   "They make it inviting for them to be there and treat them like this."
   For youths and security officers, the flash points have been confined to a 
small area in Tomorrowland, just outside the exit to the Circle Vision 
attraction and the park's Premier Gift Shop.  The area has become a popular 
meeting place for local teen-agers who flock to the park almost every weekend 
night to hear rock bands perform on the Tomorrowland Terrace.

   Between music sets, Andrews said, crowds of youths gather near the Circle 
Vision and gift shop exit, blocking it.  They also use the phones inside the 
shop, preventing other guests from making calls.  On those occasions, the 
security chief said, officers try to move the youths along.
   "The telephone booths attract the kids like bees to honey," Lindquist said.
   But Chanda Roundtree, 15, and her friends say that Disneyland police are 
flexing too much muscle.
   "They keep referring to us as 'you people' or 'your kind' and that having a 
pass is a privilege," Chanda said.  "There's probably a couple of bad apples, 
but we're not a bunch of juvenile delinquents.
   "This is a place for us to come summer and winter," she said.  "I have my 
friends here.  I don't like staying at home.  Here is the only place I'm 
allowed to go."
   Nickey Mosley, 14, a pass-holder who travels to Westminster to spend weekend 
evenings at the park, said she and her friends constantly watch for security 
officers.
   "My grandmom likes us coming here because it's safe, but now she might not 
let us come back next year because of the harassment," Nickey said.  One recent 
night, she said, she was chased from a phone booth by a guard.
   "We are not all little animals," Nickey said.
   Nickey's grandmother, Arline Hamley, said she has bought passes for her 
grandchildren for the past three years and has taken turns shuttling them to 
the park just after noon about three days a week, returning for them at night.
   "It is a place where we have felt the kids have been pretty safe," Hamley 
said.  "Disneyland has always been a good place to be, but now I'm not so sure 
that is the case."

   Tensions apparently peaked about a month ago, Chanda said, when security 
officers asked 14-year-old Marty Feldbaum of Anaheim to move from his seat on 
the bench outside the Premier shop.
   Marty asked to see a supervisor.  He, Chanda and Brian Wilkerson, 19, of 
Costa Mesa, who asked to accompany Marty to security, were taken to the 
security officer behind Space Mountain and placed in a "holding room."  One by 
one, they were removed from the room for questioning by officers, they said.
   After a couple of hours, Marty's picture was taken and his summer pass 
confiscated, and all three were asked to leave the park.
   Lindquist said that in the security office Marty used profanity in speaking 
to one of the female officers.  "As far as I'm concerned," he said, "that is 
reason enough to pull a pass."
   "I'm hurt," Marty's mother, Janice Fellbaum, said.  "I think people over 
there are taking things a little too far."
   She conceded that in years past her son had sometimes entered the park 
illegally by getting a hand "transfer" from someone.  To avoid that, she said, 
Marty had saved money given to him at Christmas to buy a summer pass.
   "It's better for him that he goes over there and not hang around here," 
Janice Fellbaum said, pointing to a littered alley near the hotel where they 
live.  "There are too many ways for him to get into trouble around here."
   Lindquist said he will review the park's policies about refunding the cost 
of confiscated passes, including the incident involving Marty, but offered 
little hope that the pass will be returned to him.
   For as long as the park has been open, Lindquist said, security officers 
have found themselves "baby-sitting" children whose families find it more 
economical to buy a season of rides on Splash Mountain than a stay at summer 
camp.
   Lindquist recalled a summer several years ago when he learned that a woman 
would routinely drive to the park's main gate early each summer morning, unload 
her son and daughter, between ages 7 and 10, drive away and return at 5 p.m.
   One day, park employees decided to follow the children.
   "They spent most of the morning at Tom Sawyer Island," Lindquist said.  
"About lunchtime, they went and had a hamburger and drink, and they returned 
to Tom Sawyer Island part of the afternoon."
   Some days, Lindquist said, employees noticed that the little girl would take 
afternoon naps on the island.
   "It's not something we're promoting.  I guess it's been happening here since 
1955."

    
    	Well, there's been an interesting new wrinkle in the " When-will-
    Eisner-OK-the-construction-of-the-'Alien-Encounter'-attraction-at-a-
    Disney-theme-park controversy. It seems that Disneyland's version of
    that tired old attraction -- " Mission to Mars " -- is closed. In fact,
    if you call the Disneyland information line ( 714-999-4565 ) and ask 
    for info on refurbishments at the park, you'll be told that " " Mission
    to Mars " is a permanently closed attraction. "
    
    	Interesting, yes ? Well -- when you consider that Disney is facing
    down the imminent opening of the Universal Studios Hollywood version of
    the " Back to the Future " simulator attraction, the ride that single-
    handedly * DOUBLED * attendance levels at Universal's Florida theme
    park ( And led to a likewise slump in attendance at Disney's studio
    theme park, though you didn't hear that from me ) -- it would appear
    that Disney is readying some big guns to help boost attendance in the
    summer of 1993.
    
    	Given the controversial PG-13 nature of the attraction, I would
    expect that Disney will play things fairly close to the vest for a
    while -- with no formal announcement 'til next spring. But -- come
    next summer -- as Universal Studios Hollywood begins beating its publicity
    drums loud and long for " Back to the Future, " expect Disney to trump 
    their ace by unveiling the scariest attraction ever at Disneyland --
    " Alien Encounter " !
    
    	Remember, you heard it here first !
    
    							jrh

Reprinted without permission from 

               The Disney Store Onstage  Holiday 1992  Volume 3

            The New Mickey's Toontown Coming to Disneyland in 1993

Mickey Mouse and friends will take up residence in January, 1993, at Mickey's
Toontown, Disneyland's first new land in 20 years!  This whacky, cartoon world
brings your favorite Disney characters to life at home, work and play.  Look
forward to fun and nonsense with Goofy's Bounce House, Gadget's Go-Coaster and
Chip 'n Dale's Treehouse.

Article 11818 of rec.arts.disney:
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From: [email protected] (Tigger)
Subject: Mickey's Toontown
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Date: 29 Dec 92 11:49:56 PST

I haven't had the time to read this group (or any other, for that matter)
in a while, so please excuse me if someone else has already posted this
info...

Mickey's Toontown at Disneyland is now being "soft opened."  The official
date isn't until January 26.  The decision on whether to open or not is
supposedly being made on a day to day basis, and it is only open for a
few hours when they do.  I finally caught it open yesterday, and it is a
blast!

The rest of this is spoilers, so go on to the next article now if you
don't want details.














Most of the place is walk-through.  Mickey's and Minnie's houses have a
bunch of cute stuff, and you get to meet Mickey dressed as the Sorcerer's
Apprentice at the end of his place.  Goofy's house is apparantly made
mostly of rubber so that kids can bounce around, but people over a certain
height (meaning most teenagers and adults) aren't allowed to play.  Chip
and Dale's tree house has slides that are usable by any age, and a pit
full of plastic balls (actually acorns) for the kiddies out back.  Donald's
boat has another slide, in my opinion better than the two in Chip and Dale's
tree.

Most of the rest of Toontown is just funky building fronts, a few of which
you can walk through.  There is a lot to see and do, mostly "toony" stuff
like doorbells that make different sounds and a fire house that smokes.

There is a food court with several small fast-food counters.  One of them
was frozen yogurt.  The Jolly Trolly runs along the street from one end of
town to the other, bouncing up and down as it goes.  Gadget's Go Coaster
is intersting and fun, but is very tame and very short as far as roller
coasters go.  There is also the Roger Rabbit "dark ride" (similar to the
ones in Fantasyland, I'm told) but it unfortunately wasn't open when I
was there yesterday.

See you all at the park!

--
|  Greg Orman                         [email protected]  |
|     A man's best friends:  a Harley, a Beretta and a Gund.     |

Article 11963 of rec.arts.disney:
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From: [email protected] (DeniseAbu" Lockner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney
Subject: My Xmas Working at Disneyland
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 05:26:24 WET
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OK, so I'm back from working at Disneyland in the College Program this
Xmas.  Want some inside info??


1) ToonTown was supposed to "soft open" earlier than it did, but the
Orange County Register leaked the news so Disney waited until right 
before Xmas.  I was working at Brer bar the day it opened, an alert
went out to all locations about the opening. 

2) Before its "real" opening, ToonTown was open 11-6 pm everyday.  Most
 guests were not aware, did not even realize there WAS a new land.

3) I romped in ToonTown for about 2 hours with a good friend from work.
  My opinions:

   all the attractions, except the go-coaster and the future dark ride,
   are walk-through exhibits.  it was not made for large crowds!  Most
   of the details were loast because TOO MANY people were crowded, not
   to mention NOT MOVING ALONG.  I thought Disney had learned this lesson
   from the Sleepiong Beauty and Treehouse walk-throughs.
 
  ToonTown is NOT FOR ADULTS and that's really infuriating!  Goofy's
  Bouce House and Chip and Dale's Acorn Whatever are off limits to
  adults.  the slides used to slide down from Chip and Dale's treehouse
  and Donald's boat, the Miss Daisy, are TOO SMALL. I am 5'1" and i have
  bruises on my legs!! We're just waiting for an overweight child or
   adult to get wedged.  

  The pathways are so narrow it's claustrophobic.  I have always admired
   Disney's knack for crowd dispersement, but in ToonTown in was nearly
  nonevident.

  There is so much noise- Miss Daisy's horn, the music, the coaster, etc.,
  it makes ToonTown really frantic and overwhelming. It's just not a 
  pleasant spot in the park!!  Kind of like a frenetic Tomorrowland if
  you can possibly imagine that.....

  Overall, once is enough for ToonTown if you're an adult.  The frozen
  yogurt is good, watch out for the pizza.  The souvenirs at the one 
  store are OK, but we wanted ToonTown shirts and most were pretty boring.
   So we bought the commemorative buttons, like everyone else!1

  One big thing, coming from a cast member: from the peak of Gadget's 
  Go-Coaster, you can see "backstage"- namely, a hotel across the street!
  We were highly disillusioned...

  The Go-Coaster is DEFINITELY a kiddie coaster.

  The architecture is amazing to look at.  It is the one thing adults
  will love.

  I think my friend put it best:  ToonTown is like a really extravagant
  Chuck E. Cheese- same type of bouce houses, acorn crawls, etc. A nice
  place to dump the kids for a while.  I just wish there had been more
  for adults, hopefully the Roger Rabbit Car Toon Spin will be just
  that.

More news:

I have heard the "Lion King" soundtrack.  I am HIGHLY impressed.
Elton John is doing a fantastic job! 

I met the Sherman Brothers!  they were signing autographs at the park
and my friend knows them.  They gave me an autographed CD and -get this-
I went to Bob Sherman's house to visit in Beverly Hills last week!

Pretty cool, huh?

I'd never seen Disneyland at Xmas before.  I really loved the Xmas Parade
and the Dickens Carolers.  Any other questions???


Forever a Cast member

Denise
*******
"If you can't say something nice....don't say nothin' at all." -THUMPER

SO DID YOU MISS ME???

    The 1992 Annual Report updated progress on ToonTown, officially opening
    next week and mentioned that Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin will be added
    to ToonTown next year.
    
    It also appears that Indiana Jones Adventures is planned for DL as
    well.
    
    - Skip

    I read on rec.arts.disney that Disney will be conducting auditions for
    performers in Aladdin's Oasis.  What's Aladdin's Oasis, you say??  It's
    a new dinner show planned for DL and is scheduled to open mid-June.
    
    Also, a good deal of construction is going on at DL (moving monorail
    supports, etc.) in preparation for the new Indiana Jones ride.
    
    - Skip

    Aladdin's Caravan will be parading down the streets of Main Street,
    U.S.A. in Anaheim, if it hasn't begun already.
    
    Those of you on the West Coast won't have to travel all the way to Fla.
    to see this parade.
    
    Mike

I'm planning a trip to California the middle of August.  I've been reading
Birnbaum's for Disneyland and it states that the third week of August is
extremely busy - the parking lot is usually full be 2 p.m.  The other times of
the year that this happens is the 4th of July and the last week of December.

Does anyone know why the third week of August is so busy?  Should I consider
changing my plans so that I go a week later.

Thanks,

Marilyn

>Does anyone know why the third week of August is so busy?  Should I consider
    
    Because it's the last week before many southwesterners return to
    school.  Before my kids were school-aged, we went *after* school opened
    in September and there was a big difference in crowds.
    
    Mike

    Last summer, we went to Disneyland on Friday, August 28th. Being
    a Friday and the last week before school began, we braced ourselves
    for the worst.  We got there before opening, ran to Star Tours 
    first and then when on to see the rest of the park. At no time 
    during the entire day, did we wait in any line more than a � hour.
    We went on Splash Mountain and Thunder Mountain, 3 times. Even
    Star Tours, the second time around was a quick painless wait.
    
    We were baffled. When we inquired about the small crowds, we were
    told that D'land attendance last year was down some 20%.
    
    Hope it's the same this summer.
    
    Jodi-  

    Besides the reasons Mike Heiser indicated everyone should keep in mind
    that DL from time to time offers special admission prices during the 
    weeks that are historically slow.
    
    Thus low admission equates to high numbers in terms of crowds.
    
    Mike

I was in Disneyland on Good Friday and the crowds were the biggest I 
have seen in any park. There was a 1 hour queue for Its a Small World 
at 7pm, and an hour queue just to get into ToonTown.

Robin (from Warrington)

    Yup...Easter weekend is one of the biggest weekends of the year for
    Disneyland.  Having survived Easter *and* July 4th/Independence Day
    trips in the past, I have sworn *never* to go near "The Happiest Place
    on Earth" on those dates (or Christmas, for that matter) again!

    I hope you escaped unmaimed!   :-)

    David.

    David - you're a true trooper! I've been at Disneyland during the
    same times (silly me!) and I agree. Those are the largest crowds I've
    ever seen at the park. I don't mind crowds, but the large number
    of people started to get to me.
    
    Todd///

    ok, now you've got me worried...we're planning on going to DL july
    5 and 6 [we've got only a bit of flexibility, the only other day
    is july 1, and/or maybe july 7] -- i guess we should really plan
    on spending 2 days there?  my husband isn't too keen on that, but
    since i know we're not going to be able to get there when the gates
    open at 8 -- we're staying in pasadena (we're going out for a wedding
    jul 4th) -- and i don't think my kids'll make it from whenever till
    closing [they're 9 and 5.5].  Actually, THEY probably will -- it's
    mom and dad who won't!
    
    sandy

    Gee...I didn't mean to sound so pessimistic, but Disneyland *is* insane
    on the days I mentioned.

    I would recommend July 1st or 7th since your other dates are the actual
    holiday weekend.  In fact, my gut tells me the 7th is probably your
    best bet, but don't hold me to that.  Even if you do go on (say) the
    4th you will be OK...provided you enjoy standing in line for an hour
    for virtually any attraction, and don't mind wall-to-wall crowds.  They
    *do* know how to handle crowds!  Still, once you've done *every*
    "E-coupon" attraction in an hour without standing in line for more than
    30 seconds a few times, you get spoiled (which is where I'm coming
    from) so take all this with a grain of salt.

    The upshot is that virtually everything should be open since this is
    prime season!

    Pasadena is only 50-60 minutes away from Disneyland so I don't see why
    you can't be there when the gates open, especially since your
    biological clocks will still be on a more eastern time zone's schedule. 
    You should be able to even get the kids up and ready to go in no time,
    IMHO.  Regardless, you do *not* need two days to see the place, but you
    *do* need to be there before opening time to hit the crowd window. 
    Call and see what their hours are as soon as you arrive (they *might*
    be closed on the 7th...you never know), and plan on *being at the
    park* 30 minutes before that time.

   


    Let us know how it goes, and I hope this helps,
    David.

    Has anyone been to the Aladdin Oasis?  I understand it costs $24.00,
    which includes dinner and a show? 
    
    I have an annual pass and probably check it out next week.
    
    Yolanda

    Yolanda,
    
    What is the Aladdin Oasis? Please explain.
    
    Jodi-

    Jodi,
    
    Aladdin Oasis is the new restaurant in Adventure Lands.  It took the
    place of the Polynesian restaurant next to the Tikki Room. 
    From other people, I understand, the $24 include dinner and a one
    hour show.  $24 is a little steep for me. One day I may try it.
    
    To me what Disneyland should have done was add an Aladdin Ride (in the
    same order as Peter Pan, Snow White, etc). We would ride on magic
    carpets.
                         
    Jodi, when is you next trip to Disneyland?
    
    Yolanda

    Thanks Yolanda for the info. The price is a bit steep when
    multiplied by four just for a dinner and show when the 
    whole day at the park will cost less than $60.
    
    Our next visit is Friday, August 27th. We go every year 
    with the kid's summer daycare program. Because we chaperone
    each year, the cost to us (my husband and I) is nothing.
    Not a bad deal, huh?  The kids cost is $20.00 each.
    
    I'll try to remember to at least check the restaurant out
    when we're there.
    
    Jodi-
    
    

    Well I went to the new Aladdin Oasis restaurant in Adventure land last
    Wednesday.  There is a dinner show and a lunch show.  Dinner is $24 +
    tax and tip which come to $30.  The lunch show is $19.95 + tax and tip
    $24.17. I went to the lunch show.
    
    People were in line up to 45 minutes before the show.  I arrived right
    when they were beginning to see people and I thought I got a pretty
    good seat. 
    
    The food is middle eastern (arabian I guess). You start off with
    something like a fired tortilla shell with a yogurt dip.  
    Appetizer is a fruit and yogurt salad. Dinner choices for adults are
    chicken, beef or vegetables on a skewer. Dinner also comes with rice
    (kind of like a pilaf), vegetables, and a yogurt sauce to dip your meat
    or vegetable in. Beverages are included, and they let have more than
    type of beverage, with plenty of refills.  I had the blue jenie punch
    and coffee.  For dessert, they served chocolate mousse in a chocolate
    magic lap with rasberry sauce.
    
    While dinner is being served, the story of Aladdin is being performed.
    The show was pretty cute. A couple of magic tricks are performed.
    This is some audience partipation. 
    
    All in all, it was pretty enjoyable.  I don't believe it is worth going
    to more than once (especially the price there are asking).  I would
    probably go again if I'm with people who would want to see it.
    
    Get you posted on any other Disneyland happenings.
    
    Yolanda

    In eleven days, I'm leaving for California.  I'll be at Disneyland
    in about 16 days.  I can hardly wait.  My husband hasn't been since he
    was in grade school.  I was there last January before Toontown opened
    and it rained every day so the park closed early.  My son (13 months)
    has never been.

    I've recently heard that there are lines to get into Toontown.  Has 
    anyone had this problem?  If so, when is the best time to go?

    Last year there were really long waits for Fantasmic especially to get
    really good seats.  What is the waiting time this year?

    Also, I'd like to videotape the Electric Light Parade.  Where is a
    good spot to do this from?

    I'd appreciate any other advise you might have.  
    
    Marilyn

    
re: .-1
    
    
>>    I've recently heard that there are lines to get into Toontown.  Has 
>>    anyone had this problem?  If so, when is the best time to go?
    
    	Weekends lately, the crowd of people wanting to get into Toontown
    have been so bad, that they set up a rope area with a 30-minute wait
    (I got a horrible sunburn).  I haven't had time to test it for myself,
    but friends have told me that by late afternoon/early evening (6-ish),
    the lines go away.
    
>>    Last year there were really long waits for Fantasmic especially to get
>>    really good seats.  What is the waiting time this year?
    
     I haven't stayed for Fantasmic this year, but check with Guest
    Relations about booking seats on the balcony of the Disney Gallery.
    
>>    Also, I'd like to videotape the Electric Light Parade.  Where is a
>>    good spot to do this from?

    My favorite spot to videotape the parade was just below "Small World"
    on the side opposite the souvenir and ice cream stands.  Since the
    parade comes out from behind "Small World" you can usually catch a good
    angle.
    
    Are you coming out to teach at LQO, or is this one a vacation?  If to
    teach, I'd suggest you stop by, but I'll be in Orlando.
    
    tom

    Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin will be opening on January 26 and is
    slated to be the largest, longest, and most unusual "black light" ride
    in DisneyLand history.
    
    The ride contains countless cartoon gags and allows the guests to spin
    their own Benny the Cab throughout the ride. Watch out for the Dip.
    when your cab hits the dip you're out of control.
    
    Be careful as you plow through the "Bullina China Shop" and the
    "TOONTOWN Power House" as you head to a confrontation with the
    Dipmobile.
    
    Mike

    You can get a 15% discount at the Blue Bayou Restaurant if you have a
    MKC Gold card and dine between 2 and 5 P.M.
    
    Mike

    
    
    No wonder attendance has dropped at Disneyland in Calif. The place is
    falling apart. Just to list a few:
    
    Toontown: broke down three times in one day.
    Skycab thing: we were stranded for 20 minutes, it kepy breaking down.
    Haunted Manson : we waited 20 minutes when it broke.
    People Mover: broke down for 30 minutes.  Standed, no help. And 
     the guy was very rude when he got to us. Nobody else on the ride
    with us.
                         
    Each time we waited about 20 minutes before the ride got going.
    Toontown never did get on it
    
    Also:
    
    Star Wars: shut down for work
    Big Train Ride: shut down for work
    Jungleland: shut down for work
    America Sings: still nothing new, still closed.
    
    Food prices ie Mexican Restuarant went from about $6.00 to almost $9.00
    in 16 months for the same platter.
    
    Still no rides to attract the teen crowed, most rather go to Magic
    Mountain (Six Flags). A lot of teens are not interested in Disneyland.
    Find it boring.
    
    Anyway, I talked to some visitors that day. Quite a few found the place
    to be not the same. Rundown. Even the Disney staff were not the
    helpful people of the past. Most were just droids doing there tasks
    was the impression I got and that's the way they looked.
    
    After many years of visiting, I guess it's the last time for a long
    time for me. Sorry to say that. But I grew up near it when it was
    orange groves. And have never seen the place so bad off.
    
    Maybe it's the recession in California, but other places are doing well
    So that cannot be the only reason.
    
    Dave
    
    

re .-1, perhaps DL was having a bad hair day the day you went?
Is there articles saying there are attendance drops?
Last time I went, no too long ago, it was as good as ever.  It still reamins
in my mind better than MK.
Are there others out there that agree?
ed

    
    re: teen croud
    
    	I think Disney got smart in removing Videolopis and no longer
    marketing themselves at the teen croud.  From my experience at Knotts,
    incidents of vandalism, shoplifting, and fighting increased on nights
    when the teen crowd infested the park.  Also, we had a big problem with
    rival gangs and their silly turf wars in both the park and parking lot.
    
    	I noticed that Disneyland is targeting the younger crowd in its
    marketing effort.  They are holding 'pog' days during the spring break
    season.  (don't ask me what a Pog is, all I know is that they are the
    rage of my 4th grad boys group at church)  Pogs appeal to the 8 - 12 year 
    old crowd whom are usually not let loose in amusement parks by
    themselves.     
    
    re: rides down for maintenance
    
    	That doesn't make any sense.  Dinsey takes all its rides down for
    periodic maintenance.  However, this is usually done in the off season
    (Oct - Mar).  I think Disney Rides Maintenance was having a bad day.
    
    	I have always enjoyed my stays to the Magic Kingdom.  I don't think
    they are going down hill.  That's not Disney's image.
    
    -Rick 

    .206
    
    My extended family and I did the Disneyland thing at Christmas last
    year.  There were 6 semi-adult children (ages 16-22) with us and
    EVERYONE had a blast!!!  Even when it rained things were great!  We did
    not notice very much downtime at all.  When the peoplemover was down we
    just walked and it was working the next time we needed it.  
    
    We still love Disneyland....and know the WDW is definitely NOT in reach
    for all of us.  I guess it helps to be REALLY young at heart.  The
    oldest in our group is 68!

    re. 208 
    
    Well I see what you think of teens, "infested" usually is made in
    reference to pests ie:spiders and bugs. Other parks accomondate teens,
    if Disneyland can't, it really says something about the management.
    "Hey kids, once you turn 13, find something else to do". I did notice
    a really big absense of teens, mostly adults and under 12 kids. My
    14 son has been to Six Flag Magic Mountain too many times to count.
    I have yet to see any major problem that would cause me to worry. There
    have been incidents, but they have happened at DL too. 
    
    Sorry, but I've been going there since 1957. Like I said, the place
    as seen better days. I was there April 11, 1994 and those rides did
    break down. And major stuff was shutdown ie:Star Tours, Big Sky Train
    and all of Jungleland and others. 
    
    Glad I live close by and wasn't from out-of-state that day. Cause
    I would have been a bit upset.
    
    All in all, it was a big laugh seeing the place run so bad. So
    maybe is was just one bad day. But like I said, I've been there so
    many times, something has changed. And I think it has to do with
    Disney's management of the place. 
    
    Anyway, my wife a longtime Disneyland nut is writing a letter to
    Disney Corporate about the day. 
    
    One thing is obvious. Disneyland needs something new in a big way. 
    Toontown I suppose was a step, but they are way behind the timeline.
    I suppose it has to do with that big loser over in Europe and all
    the bucks they keep spending on WDW. 
    
    Dave
     

    Dan
    
    Sorry if my 'infested' opinion offended.  It is not my intent.  Perhaps
    my opinion will change when I have a teenage son or daughter.  My
    opinion came from my experiences from working at Knotts on the nights
    when they marketed the Farm at the teen croud (i.e. $9.95 admission,
    Studio K dance place open late, etc.).  A larger than usual number of
    people were being remanded to the Orange County Sheriff for things like
    spraypainting, posession of drugs, attempted murder and lewd behavior.    
    
    I'm sure that your boy could go to Knotts, Disney, Magic Mountain
    several times without incident.  That is a credit to you as a parent. 
    I wish that every teenager had such respect for others and their
    property.  
    
    I know that among the age groups, the 18 to 25 group has the highest
    amount of disposable income (this month, I'm disposing of mine to the
    IRS :-) However, I don't think Disney wants to market DL at the teen
    age group.  I don't know if Disney thinks it can't compete, or if it is
    a security issue, or what.
    
    Let me throw the onus back on you Dan.   Other than the fact that your
    son is in it, why should Disney market DL at the teen croud?  
    
    -Rick 

    Saw on CNN a report that a visitor plummeted from a skyway gondola and
    fell 20 feet into a tree. The report sounded like he was leaning on the
    door.
    
    Mike

    I just read the same story in the Phila Daily News about 10 mins. ago. 
    The story read that they (disney) are not sure how the door opened
    since they make sure that the doors are locked from the outside and the
    doors cannot be opened from the inside.  Sounds like maybe they guy did
    this on purpose.  The story also said that he immediatly hired a high
    visibility lawyer.  I didn't remember the lawyers name
    
    John
    

    
    The lawyer at one time represented Rodney King.
    
    Dave
    

    
    I picked up an interesting statistic somewhere.  (I don't remember
    where) Disney's lawyers win 97% of the suites files againts them that
    go to court.
    
    interesting...
    
    -Rick

    I was in Disneyland yesterday, and in conversation with some of the
    Cast Members, discovered that this coming Wednesday, November 9, will
    be the last day of the Skyway to Fantasyland!
    
    I have yet to be able to reach my contacts in Imagineering to find out
    more about what will be coming in (Disneyland has a rule that for every
    new attraction you bring in you have to retire an old one;  When
    ToonTown was put in, the Motor Boats went away [no loss]), other than
    the Indiana Jones ride (which is ready, but is being delayed until
    after the first of the year, as next year will be DL's 40th
    anniversary).
    
    In the meantime, this makes for a very dead corner of Tomorrowland, as
    the Skyway was next to the Carousel building (which has been empty for
    years), which was next to Mission to Mars (ditto).
    
    Hopefully this means they are getting ready for Discoveryland (and
    should negotiate to make the Discover Card the official chardge card of
    Discoveryland)

      Disney Scales Back Plans to Expand California Park, Citing High
 Land Costs  ---- By Thomas R. King   Staff Reporter of The Wall Street Journal


  BURBANK, Calif. -- Walt Disney Co. is making significant cutbacks in its
once-ambitious plans to turn the Disneyland theme park in Anaheim, Calif.,
into a full-scale resort.
  The company has informed landowners and the city that it has decided
against exercising options on land parcels totaling about 20 acres near
the park. The parcels were an integral part of a broad plan for a huge
second park with its own gate, to be called Westcot Center, that would
have included several hotels on the property.
  But Disney executives have taken a harder look at the economic
feasibilities, and the $3 billion expansion plan unveiled with great
fanfare in 1991 now seems dead. Disney executives said they decided to let
the land-parcel options expire because they determined that the prices
exceed the value of the land.
  "You can't make sense of a project if you overpay for land," said David
Malmuth, vice president and general manager of Disney Development
Co./California. "We're not going to do that." The land was to be used for
a giant parking structure, among other things.
  Paul Pressler, president of the Disneyland Resorts, said that Disney
still plans some expansion and the building of a second park with a
separate admission gate. "That gate probably isn't Westcot as we had
originally envisioned. Whether or not the name stays, it really is too
early to tell," he said, adding that any expansion will most likely be
completed in stages.
  The scaled-back plan comes as Disney's stock has been rising for the
first time in several years. Last week, Disney arranged an impressive
seminar at its headquarters here for Wall Street analysts, many of whom
left the presentation upbeat about Disney's prospects in theme-park,
television and movie operations this year. In New York Stock Exchange
composite trading yesterday, the stock slipped 25 cents to $50.875.
  Mr. Pressler wouldn't offer more details on the theme of the second park
or when it might be built and opened. "Over the next 12 months I
anticipate that we will be able to come back and share with everyone what
our vision is and where we're heading."
  Mr. Pressler said he and Mr. Malmuth had been charged "in the last 30
days to continue to move the project forward and deliver a product that is
economically feasible." The executives said they still believe the
expansion will include the addition of hotel rooms on the site, but
wouldn't say how the final hotel plan might differ from the original idea
of creating three giant themed hotels, one of which was to have been
modeled somewhat after the Beverly Hills Hotel.
  Meanwhile, Disney is pouring money into its existing Disneyland park. In
March it will open "The Indiana Jones Adventure," a $100 million
thrill-ride attraction based on the Indiana Jones films. And last week, it
announced long-awaited plans to overhaul its dated Tomorrowland section;
the project is scheduled to be completed in 1998. Although Mr. Pressler
wouldn't say exactly how much is being spent on that project, he called it
"one of the biggest investments that we've made inside the park in its
history."
  Separately, John F. Cooke, president of the Disney Channel pay-TV
service, was named executive vice president, corporate affairs, at Walt
Disney. He will continue to oversee the Disney Channel until a successor
is chosen.
     

    Disneyland prices went up this week:
    
                              Adult   Child
    
                 One-Day       $34     $26
                 Two-Day       $59     $45
                 Three-Day     $82     $63
    
    Mike

Heard about this Web site on the "Computer Man" show on 
The Learning Channel:

  http://www.mcs.net/%7Ewerner/yester.html

Here's an excerpt:

> Welcome to Yesterland
>
> Did you ever wonder what happened to Disneyland's Mine Train, 
> Flying Saucers, or Indian Village? These and other attractions, 
> restaurants, and shops are now collected in Yesterland, a theme 
> park on the Web. 
>
> Perhaps you remember some of these features from your earlier visits 
> to Disneyland. Or perhaps they were gone before you ever had a chance 
> to experience them. In either case, I hope you enjoy your visit to 
> Yesterland. 
>
> Oh, just one warning: Each link has one or two large GIF images -- 
> typically around 80K per link. As you wait for images to appear, please 
> consider it to be the World-Wide Web equivalent of waiting in line. 
>
>            Werner W. Weiss, Curator of Yesterland ([email protected]) 

Enjoy!

-- Nina

    I noticed this posted letter from Scott Garner in the r.a.d. newsgroup
    and thought it would be an eye opener for anyone thinking about taking
    a trip to Anaheim.
    
    The letter is addressed to PAul Pressler who is currently the man in
    charge of DL.
    
    Mike

    ************************************************************************
    
Mr. Pressler,

This is an open letter asking you to resign your position as President
of Disneyland.  The reason I am posting this request in a public
newsgroup on the Internet, rather than sending it to you personally,
is that I believe in an open, free exchange of ideas and opinions.  It
has been said that some of what is written here actually makes it to
your desk.  I hope that you read this, accept it with the sincerity in
which it is offered, and respond accordingly.

I am a Disney child; a 37-year-old Disney child.  I grew up watching
Disney films and visiting Disneyland regularly.  To say that the park
has been an integral part of my life would be no misstatement.  I've
watched the park change over time, and while Walt Disney himself said
that the park would never be complete, I've come to believe that the
changes you are making are to the detriment of the spirit of both Mr.
Disney and the living entity we know as Disneyland.  You, sir, are
killing Disneyland.

You probably didn't take the position as President with the belief
that you could bring irreparable harm to the park.  To this day, you
probably believe in what you are doing and the decisions you are
making.  However, to someone who has grown up with the Disneyland, and
understands the important place in history and society that Disneyland
maintains, the vision you offer is directly opposite to that which had
made the park "The Happiest Place on Earth".

Disneyland has always been a place of magic; a place where families
could renew the sacred bond of trust and mutual enjoyment, regardless
of age.  It has always presented an appearance of extreme cleanliness
and friendliness.  Disneyland has combined fantasy and reality to
offer guests an opportunity to leave the outside world and all of it's
troubles and encumbrances.

Since you have arrived, the park is no longer clean.  Gum sticks to
rails and benches, and the Matterhorn itself.  Trash floats in the
Rivers of America and the castle moat.  Paint is chipping from
buildings and graffiti scars the walls.  Gardeners can be seen
trimming bushes during park hours; something that never happened
before your arrival.  Evenings in Tomorrowland have presented
guests with scenes of concert-style jacketed security officers
rousting hoards of youths, while families are nowhere to be found.
Once-unique merchandise and themed shops have been replaced with piles
of plush and cheap plastic toys that can be bought in any Kmart or
WalMart.  Suffering from bad morale, increasing numbers of Cast
Members exhibit rude, impatient behavior.

Your lack of vision and leadership has resulted in pathetic, failed
attempts to bring positive change, including the infamous Penny Arcade
plush outlet.  Your focus on budget has resulted in less training,
less direct supervision, and probably less safety.  Your lack of
creativity has resulted in a dumbing-down of the shopping experience,
with an increase in the kind of boring, generic merchandise that
guests can buy outside of the park.  Your lack of entertainment
experience has resulted in a park who's main goal no longer is to
entertain, but instead, to sell and promote.  Your shameless attitude
toward taking every penny that families bring to the park has resulted
in families smuggling food into the park in order to afford a visit.

Ice cream carts, soda carts, churro carts, shaved ice carts, popcorn
carts, hot dog carts, beef jerky carts, all proliferate while you
direct the destruction of the longest supporter and sit-down
food provider in the park, Carnation.  You remove the single-most
instructive attraction in the park, Mr. Lincoln, yet offer nothing
more than a movie promotion in it's place.  You consider the
removal of Coke corner, putting a food court in it's place.  You
remove interesting, varied shops and replace them with cart after cart
after shop of the same movie promotion merchandise.

The bottom line is that you are a salesperson, not an entertainer.
You do not truly understand why the park was created, why people have
always thought of Disneyland as a completely different place than any
other amusement park in the world, or why some of us are so damn
depressed at the changes you make.  Perhaps we shouldn't fault you,
but instead, the person who promoted you to this place of importance,
because you obviously have no business running such a special park.
Perhaps you should find someone with a long history of service to the
park and let them make the decisions while you concentrate on building
your new monument to yourself.  Or perhaps you should just return to
the Disney Store, where you can sell your plush at inflated prices.  I
don't care what you do, just so long as you get out of Disneyland
soon.  If you do not, the park that we've come to love and enjoy
will never recover.


scott





***********************************************************

M. Scott Garner

LAN Analyst, Corporation for Regional Information Systems

[email protected]



"Events have a way of following in the footsteps of faith."

- Graham MacIntosh

***********************************************************

    OUCH!!
    
    I'd love to see the reply.
    
    I went to Disneyland last june while I was out there on business. After
    the 5 trips to WDW, I couldn't help but compare. Aside from the size,
    the two things that I came away with were, it's nowhere near as clean,
    and there were a lot of teenagers in groups roaming around. both of
    these issues were covered pretty well by Mr. Garner.
    
    I hope we never see, or worse write, this type of letter regarding WDW!
    
    
    
    Phil

    These guys are serious. Check out this site:
    
            http://members.aol.com/alweho/pressler/pressler.htm
    
    MJS

    My family and I are planning a trip to Disneyland.  We will be there
    from Oct.4th thru the 9th.  I was wondering if anyone could give me any
    hints, gotcha's, must-see's, etc.  We will be staying at the Candy Cane
    Inn.  
    
    Thanks in advance,
    Glen in Portland, Or. 

    Glen,
    
    	We have been a number of times....
    
    	Candy Cane Inn provides a bus/transportation to the gate.  So you
    don't have to drive over and fight traffic and pay to park.  
    
    	I would recommend riding the "long line" rides during the parades. 
    Toon Town is always crowded; Fantasy Land always has long waiting lines
    for all the rides.  Depending on what day of the week, there will be
    BUSES and BUSES of kids coming in from schools in Mexico.  Tuesday is
    usually the best day....less waiting lines. 
    
    	I liked the Indianna (sp??) Jones ride the best...Check at the
    booth where you buy your passes...there is a list of "closed" rides. 
    Plan around them...I have yet to get to the "haunted mansion" ...every
    time I go it's closed.  
    
    	We went in June and they were taking down the Pochohatas (SP??)
    play and setting up the hunchback play.  
    
    	I'm not sure what time DL is open in October...I think they close
    around 6P.  
    
    Kathi
    

    Just thought I'd mention that the newly released light show "Night
    Magic" has not been received too well. Many people have expressed
    STRONG disappointment over the show and have mentioned that the show
    does not measure up to previous DL shows. 
    
    One comment mentions that the only time the crowd began to cheer was
    when a piece of the ELP song (Baroque Hoedown) was playing.
    
    There were even some children crying because they didn't like the show
    and they were "missing rides."
    
    Woooosh!

We're leaving Wed night for DL/Anaheim.

I expect to get my own first peek at the Light Magic
show Thursday night.  If it really sucks, there's
always Fantasmic to fall back on!

I'll let you know what I personally think, and try
to guage crowd reaction.

The stuff I've been reading in the newsgroups was
mostly from disgruntled DL AP holders that paid $25
for a special light magic premiere showing that
was a less than stellar performance.  There are
already some words from folks who've seen the
real show since the AP's saw the rehearsal and
many problems with the show have been ironed out.
I've been trying to take whats written in the news
group with a grain of salt till I get my own
look at it.

You also gotta realize they really loved their
Main Street Electrical Parade.  It's got to be
a real whopper of a show to get them over its
demise, especially when they hear about it reappearing
in NYC and other places.  8^}

Indy, here I come!

--Bert

>>The stuff I've been reading in the newsgroups was
>>mostly from disgruntled DL AP holders that paid $25
>>for a special light magic premiere showing that
>>was a less than stellar performance.  
    
    The other thing to remember is that, out here, the AP's are mostly
    locals, and are the ones who scream loudly whenever there is a RUMOR of
    change.  I still remember the fuss they made when Disney wa planning on
    closing "Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln."  So, thanks to their Luddism,
    Mr. Lincoln is still here playing to his 75 people a day instead of
    what they had wanted to replace him with:  MuppetVision.
    
    tom
    (Who didn't want to like Star Tours when it was first announced
    [because it wasn't Disney-Related; and because Adventures thru Inner
    Space was a great make-out ride] but is willing to admit when he was
    wrong)
    

We saw Light Magic Saturday night on Main Street.
The stages are really neat with the fiber optics
doing all sorts of color and movement changes.  Also
there are the same fiber optics all over the
facades of Main Street.  

The show itself is a little strange.  It consists of
a very catchy opening song, but quickly degenerates
into elfen clog dancing, accompanied by characters
attempting to do the same steps.  There is a short
sequence where they project an animated collage of
leading ladies/"men" from past animated films, and then
another huge dancing segment with confetti cannons
going off.  Then they roll off with the theme song
playing.
 
The stages are wonderful, the optics are great, the
costumes and characters are great.  The point of
the show was missed on me.  Fortunately the most
easily fixed part is the choreographed dance 
movements (along with the music) and the film 
projected onto the stage.  We all know Disney shows
are highly evolved productions from their initial
offerings.

Personally, I thought Fantasmic and the Lion King parade 
(which just ended this weekend) were much better shows,
and worth the time invested to get a good veiwing
spot (typically about 30-40 minutes).

We rode the largest bulk of rides Wednesday night, Thursday
and Friday during the day.  We saved negotiating crowded 
viewing spots for shows for Friday and Saturday night when
the crowds were heaviest.  When you go you have to be
prepared for the large numbers of junior high and high
school age kids that use DL as their personal weekend 
hangout.  Not that we had any problems, just they 
show up there in record numbers on weekends....they
far outnumber the large asian and south american
tour groups we saw in the park.  Its a catch-22 situation.
If I had a choice I'd go Mon - Thursday and leave the weekends
to the locals, but DL shows most of the big shows only during
the weekend because of the large crowds.   You just have
to plan accordingly.  With the 5 day flex pass it makes
it easy to leisurely tour the park and ride a few things
at a time, so you can pick the things with the least
amount of wait.  

All in all, it was a great trip.  Brian (1 year old)
loved Dumbo, the Carousel, and Pirates of the Carribbean.
We rode many things without without waiting more than
15 minutes.  We rode Indiana Jones Adventure twice which
was not enough.  This ride is awsome!  We can only dream
that someday they'll build it in Florida.

I'm planning a larger more detailed trip report, so stay
tuned.

--Bert