Conference 7.286::golf

    Mickelson was impressive!  He was rollin'!
    
    And you could tell by the look on his face coming down the 18th that he
    REALLY liked the feel of winning. :-)

I rate Faldo to repeat. With probably Norman close and Tiger Woods about 4 
shots behind

Alan

	The way Mickelson is putting I'd have to go with him for the
	Green Jacket..

	Red

    
    	fyi, today's Boston Globe has a big Golf Section.  Very long
    	article about Woods (who else?).  Also, tons of Mass course
    	info.
    
    	re: Masters - Norman, Faldo, Price, and Tiger battling it out
    	on the back nine with Price making bird on 18 to win.
    

    Tom Lehman - this could be his year...
    
    Also, I'll always keep Tom Watson as a possibility...
    
    Jay
    
    

    Well, as a (not so) impartial transplant from the land of Oz, I have to 
    believe the Aussies are at short odds to continue the flow of prize money
    "down-under."  With Elkington and Appleby playing well, and Norman due 
    for a big one, how can you go wrong?
    
    Bazza
     

The 'Elk' has won two already. Do you think he can land another big one ?

Alan

    I read today that Tiger has been paired with Faldo. That will be some
    round to follow.
    
    ..Kevin..

I'm going out on a limb here and predicting Greg Norman to win The Masters.
I think he's dealt with last year's collapse and put it behind himself.  He
knows the course and has all the shots including a pure putting stroke.  What
goes on between his ears will be the deciding factor.

John

	...www.masters.org

	also lots of good stuff at www.augustagolf.com

Well, it appears Norman still has a few demons to exorcise.  Woods and Faldo
shooting 40 and 41 on the front?!?!?  Tiger's mid-round comeback was great but
driver/pitching wedge on the 15th - that's no 5 par.  Also, his driving average
was 338 yds, more than 20 yds. over #2.  And speaking of exciting, what about
John Huston's eagle on #18 from 190 yds on the 10th hole.

The course won the first round with only 7 players under par and poor Arnie is
last, barely breaking 90.

    Tiger shot 30  on the back nine . Was  that the best back 9 of the day? 
    
    what is the record for the course/back 9 ?
    
    ..Kevin..

Tiger just missed a birdie putt on 18 to tie Mark Calcavecchia's record 29 (I
believe it was round 4 of 1992).

JT

    Tiger's back nine may have been the anticipate breakthrough.
    
    Am I mistaken, or had Tiger never broken par in any round at Augusta
    previously?

I believe that's correct.  He had 3 previous rounds of par but never anything in
the red.

    Well, what's to say?  Tiger's the real deal!  We watched history being
    made yesterday.
    
    The hype around Tiger borders on the ridiculous, but the guy seems to
    be exceeding even that.  When Tiger says his goals are great and his
    standards high, I think we've yet to see what that means.
    
    I hope our culture can just enjoy him without eating him alive.

    It seems that a new generation is emerging which is adapted to the
    technological improvements which are available. John Daly was quite
    remarkable, and would be even greater than he is were it not for the
    drink. Tiger has great personal control to go with his ability.
    
    There is a long discussion in the papers here about him being the
    first black golfer to win the contest. Apparently there are still some
    courses in the USA where he would not be allowed to play. Is that true?
    
    http://www.irish-times.com/irish-times/paper/1997/0414/fro4.html
    
    ..Kevin..
    
    

I'm referring to myself of course for picking Greg Norman. Poke him with a fork,
he's done.

As for Tiger, I can't say anything that hasn't been said already.  The putt for
par on 18 was clutch to break the record.  His preparation was as phenomenal as
his dominance of the field.  My favorite quote (can't remember who said it) was
that the 2nd place finisher should be given a green necktie or such.

This Masters started on the back nine Saturday and was over by the end of the
day.  Still, all the records being broken provided an excitement of its own.

Is it too early to pick him for player of the year, money title, Ryder cup hero,
another major this year?

John

    Yeah, lost in Tigermania was the EXCELLENT golf played by Tom Kite.
    
    But, he was beaten by 12 strokes!  Amazing.  The numbers hung up by the
    rest of the field attest to the course's difficulty.  Tiger's
    accomplishment cannot be diminished by arguing that the course was
    perhaps easier than years past.
    
    Augusta was tough.  Tiger dominated, and Kite persevered.

Re *.17

>> It seems that a new generation is emerging which is adapted to the
>> technological improvements which are available. ....
 
But just the opposite is true with Tiger.  His driver has is an old Cobra
head with a steel shaft, his irons are forged blades with steel shafts.  If
anything, it's a knock against the latest technology!

I was most surpised by Tom Kite even making the cut, never mind finishing second.

Interesting that two of the best putters on tour (Brad Faxon and Phil Mickelson)
didn't make the cut.

    
    	Talk now goes to the Grand Slam.  Either the PGA or US Open is
    	being played at Butch Harmon's home course where he and his father
    	Claude were the pros.  Is there any doubt that home course
    	advantage with all the strategy and breaks of the greens will make
    	Tiger even more formidable?
    
    	For me it's mind boggling that virtually every pro is conceding
     	that Tiger is way better than anyone else.
    
    	My favorite quote was by Monty when he was reminded of last years
    	collapse - "Greg Norman is no Tiger Woods".
    

>    	My favorite quote was by Monty when he was reminded of last years
>    	collapse - "Greg Norman is no Tiger Woods".
 
I think a far more accurate quote would be mine: 
"Constantina Rocca is no Nick Faldo".   

Last year Faldo shot the best final round I can remember
(maybe excepting Jack's in '86), going 5 under and FORCING
Norman to shoot par to win.  Every time Norman seemed to
gain an advantage on a hole, Faldo stuck it inside of him, 
or made his putt first...  

This year Rocca folded like a tent.  Nobody else on first page 
of the leader board was under par on Sunday.

I wonder what might have happened had Rocca been 2 under after
7 when Tiger was over par for the round.  Who knows?
Maybe he might have felt some pressure. 

>       My favorite quote was by Monty when he was reminded of last years
>       collapse - "Greg Norman is no Tiger Woods".

Ah.. Monty.  What did he shoot over the weekend?  74, 81?
I hope Norman stuffs this quote up his butt.

(Well actually, he already has.  How many majors has Monty won,
or even contended in?)

Mike

re .19

>>> The numbers hung up by the 
>>> rest of the field attest to the course's difficulty.

and in some cases the stupidity of the rest of the field.  Case in point.
John Huston was leading the tournament Friday afternoon, coming into 13,
I believe.  He misses the green and water to the right on his second shot.
The pin is left front, and Ken Venturi is saying... "He can't go for the pin."
His best play is go for the back of the green, two putt, take his par and 
go on to the next hole.

What does he do?  Chili dips it into Rae's Creek.  Then to make matters worse,
he goes to the tee on 14, and proceeds to put another one into the water.
His next shot AGAIN goes into the creek, but is on a small sand bar.  He 
finally blasts out TO THE BACK OF THE GREEN, two putts, cards his TEN and
goes on to the next hole.

I don't expect that he would have won the tournament, but right there in
one decision, he lost it.

[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

    Yeah, what must these guys be thinking?  You'd think they're trying to
    win the tournament instead of just playing a respectable round! :-)
    
    Stupid?  I hope to never say that about a pro.  Bad decision?  Only in
    hindsight.  How about the stupid guys that didn't even make the cut?
    Faldo, Faxon, Michelson, Norman et. al, proven stupids all! :-)
    
    And Ken Venturi's about as good as there is in determining the right
    thing to do.  Only thing is, he's not making the decision in the heat
    of competition.
    
    Perhaps some of Augusta's difficulty is deceptiveness, e.g., leading
    good players to think that certain risks will be rewarded in getting
    out of trouble.
    
    Take Ben Crenshaw for example.  He had the most eagles in the
    tournament, but hung up an ELEVEN on one hole in the final round.  I
    suspect something other than stupidity is going on in tournament play.

    Rocca "folded like a tent?"  Let's see, if Costantino had shot a 67,
    Tiger would have needed to shoot a 75.
    
    If I remember correctly, Tiger's scoring average is the lowest on tour
    right now, somewhere around 68.
    
    Best final round?  What did Kite shoot?
    
    Note that it is NEVER the guys paired with Tiger who shoot low numbers!
    I think the tour wisdom is to not ever be in a situation where you're
    playing Tiger in virtual match-play.  How intimidating must it be when
    your tee shots are consistently 30 or more yards short, or you're
    consistently hitting two clubs more on second shots than your opponent?
    
    I don't think the pros are folding.  I think Tiger's at a different
    level.  He will lose, but others must bring their A-games for more than
    a couple rounds of tournaments henceforth.  I'm not saying Tiger will
    be the one to beat on the course in every tournament he enters, rather
    that the bar has been raised and the entire tour must play a notch
    higher.
    
    In most big wins, there's a strong element of "luck" or "getting a
    break," particularly at critical junctures.  No matter how good the
    play, there's usually some "luck" involved to keep momentum.
    
    I was impressed that Tiger did not appear to be "lucky."  His
    bump-and-run from the pine needles on no. 8 was no doubt an important
    shot, but was he "lucky?"  Before he executed the shot, Venturi said
    exactly what kind of shot was needed.  That's what Tiger did.  Venturi
    went on to say that you could lay your practice bag down there for a
    few hours and not make that shot, but he in no way implied that Tiger
    was "lucky."
    
    Again, I don't think pros are folding.  A new standard has been set.
    
    Should be an exciting year!

    Only four golfers had a better final round than Tiger.  Rocca close the
    lead a couple of times before the 8th hole.  Then tiger made a great
    saving shot and the Masters was history.  I have attached the Maters
    score from ESPNET.
    
    Jose
    
ESPNET SPORTSZONE | INDEX | HELP | GOLF
ESPNET SPORTSZONE | INDEX | HELP | GOLF

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                 Final-round scores
                 -------------------------------------------------------------

 [Image]         Final-round recap

 ALSO SEE        Tiger  Woods,  $486,000              70-66-65-69--270
                 Tom  Kite,  $291,600                 77-69-66-70--282
 Tiger           Tommy  Tolles,  $183,600             72-72-72-67--283
 round-by-round  Tom  Watson,  $129,600               75-68-69-72--284
                 Paul  Stankowski,  $102,600          68-74-69-74--285
                 Costantino  Rocca,  $102,600         71-69-70-75--285
                 Jeff  Sluman,  $78,570               74-67-72-73--286
                 Fred  Couples,  $78,570              72-69-73-72--286
                 Davis  Love  III,  $78,570           72-71-72-71--286
                 Justin  Leonard,  $78,570            76-69-71-70--286
                 Bernhard  Langer,  $78,570           72-72-74-68--286
                 Willie  Wood,  $52,920               72-76-71-68--287
                 Steve  Elkington,  $52,920           76-72-72-67--287
                 Per-Ulrik  Johansson,  $52,920       72-73-73-69--287
                 Tom  Lehman,  $52,920                73-76-69-69--287
                 Jose  Maria  Olazabal,  $52,920      71-70-74-72--287
                 Fred  Funk,  $39,150                 75-73-69-72--288
                 Vijay  Singh,  $39,150               75-74-69-70--288
                 Mark  Calcavecchia,  $39,150         74-73-72-69--288
                 Ernie  Els,  $39,150                 73-70-71-74--288
                 John  Huston,  $30,240               67-77-75-70--289
                 Stuart  Appleby,  $30,240            72-76-70-71--289
                 Jesper  Parnevik,  $30.240           73-72-71-73--289
                 Nick  Price,  $24,840                71-71-75-74--291
                 Lee  Westwood,  $24,840              77-71-73-70--291
                 Craig  Stadler,  $21,195             77-72-71-72--292
                 Lee  Janzen,  $21,195                72-73-74-73--292
                 Paul  Azinger,  $19,575              69-73-77-74--293
                 Jim  Furyk,  $19,575                 74-75-72-72--293
                 Mark  O'Meara,  $17,145              75-74-70-75--294
                 Larry  Mize,  $17,145                79-69-74-72--294
                 Scott  McCarron,  $17,145            77-71-72-74--294
                 Colin  Montgomerie,  $17,145         72-67-74-81--294
                 Sandy  Lyle,  $14,918                73-73-74-75--295
                 Fuzzy  Zoeller,  $14,918             75-73-69-78--295
                 Duffy  Waldorf,  $13,905             74-75-72-75--296
                 David  Frost,  $13,230               74-71-73-79--297
                 Scott  Hoch,  $12,690                79-68-73-78--298
                 Ian  Woosnam,  $11,610               77-68-75-79--299
                 Sam  Torrance,  $11,610              75-73-73-78--299
                 Jack  Nicklaus,  $11,610             77-70-74-78--299
                 Jumbo  Ozaki,  $10,530               74-74-74-78--300
                 Clarence  Rose,  $9,720              73-75-79-74--301
                 Corey  Pavin,  $9,720                75-74-78-74--301
                 Ben  Crenshaw,  $8,910               75-73-74-80--302
                 Frank  Nobilo,  $8,370               76-72-74-81--303

                 -------------------------------------------------------------

                                   ESPNET SportsZone | Golf

                 [Copyright 1996 Starwave Corporation and ESPN Inc. All rights reserved. Do not duplicate or redistribute in any form.]
    

    	As Venturi was saying so many times, Augusta is almost perfect
    for Tiger's game. With his length off the tee he can hit very lofted
    clubs into the greens and make them stick. The others need to hit
    longer clubs and hope they stick.
    	With the absence of rough at Augusta, fairways we hackers play
     are longer, ;^)  you can blast it. Of course it helps to keep it
    in the shortest stuff as Tiger did most of the time.
    	I think he wanted that tournament so badly he put himself into
    "the zone" and found it after a shaky first 9.

>                     <<< Note 2122.25 by AROLED::PARKER >>>
>                                  -< RE: .22 >-

>    Rocca "folded like a tent?"  Let's see, if Costantino had shot a 67,
>    Tiger would have needed to shoot a 75.
 
My point exactly.  The fact that he shot 75, Monty 81, Stankowski 74...
meant Tiger had absolutely no pressure exerted on him by the field.
He said so himself, "I was surprised that no one made a move on me."

>    If I remember correctly, Tiger's scoring average is the lowest on tour
>    right now, somewhere around 68.
 
I never said he wasn't great.  Just that everyone made it easy for him.
   
>    Best final round?  What did Kite shoot?
 
Huh?  Are you saying Kite's 70 to finish 12 back is comparable to
Faldo's last round in 96?
   
>    Note that it is NEVER the guys paired with Tiger who shoot low numbers!
>    I think the tour wisdom is to not ever be in a situation where you're
>    playing Tiger in virtual match-play.  How intimidating must it be when
>    your tee shots are consistently 30 or more yards short, or you're
>    consistently hitting two clubs more on second shots than your opponent?
 
Corey Pavin, US Open champion, faces that every day.  So do I :-)  Big deal.

I'm just saying if Monty, Rocca, and a few others made the turn
at -2 or-3, maybe Tiger's chip on 8 isn't so easy.  Or maybe
he tightens up just a tad on the tee shot on 12...

A few slips here and there, he's 3 over, someone else is 3 under, all of a
sudden it's a tournament!  He could lose the lead with a single swing
of the club.  And that's a pressure he never felt.

Would he have handled it?  More than likely :-)  But in my opinion,
the field (with a few exception), especially those 9 or 10 back, folded.

And also in my opinion, the fact that Faldo DID exert such pressure
in 96 was the reason he won.  If he and everyone else shot mid-70s,
I've no doubt Norman would have won.

Well, them's my 2 cents...

Mike

| My point exactly.  The fact that he shot 75, Monty 81, Stankowski 74...
| meant Tiger had absolutely no pressure exerted on him by the field.
| He said so himself, "I was surprised that no one made a move on me."

** And my point is that Tiger put the pressure on the field, not vice versa.
   All Tiger had to do was shoot a little worse than average, while everyone
   else would have had to shoot their absolute best.  In other words, in order
   to beat Tiger, others had to take risks.  Don't know if I'd call that
   "folding."

| I never said he wasn't great.  Just that everyone made it easy for him.

** Depends on perspective, I guess.  Again, I would say Tiger made it hard on
   the field, rather than the field making it easy for Tiger.
   
| Huh?  Are you saying Kite's 70 to finish 12 back is comparable to
| Faldo's last round in 96?

** Nope.  What I'm saying is that the real tournament for the field was 2nd
   place.  And in that context, Kite played well.  I'd say Stankowski and a
   couple other guys put pressure on Kite, and Tom's game actually solidified
   as the day wore on.

   If my memory serves, Kite has finished as the runner-up in more Masters
   tournaments than anyone else.  That consistency is wonderful, yet some
   people would characterize Kite as a loser/choker.

   I'm suggesting that he showed himself to be more than a loser/choker in
   the big one last Sunday.

   So, I'm saying that in the battle for 2nd place, Kite's performance was
   comparable to Faldo's in terms of doing what had to be done to win.

   I'll admit that my outlook is different.  I just really respect the grit
   and skill of the top PGA tour players.  I would never feel qualified or
   justified in saying the field folded.  But that's just my opinion.
   
| Corey Pavin, US Open champion, faces that every day.  So do I :-)  Big deal.

** Okay.  I thought it might be a big deal when you play for a living.

| I'm just saying if Monty, Rocca, and a few others made the turn
| at -2 or-3, maybe Tiger's chip on 8 isn't so easy.  Or maybe
| he tightens up just a tad on the tee shot on 12...

** True.  I'm just saying the pressure was on others to bring their A-game
   just to stay with, let alone catch, Tiger.  And from that standpoint, I
   guess you can say they failed to meet the challenge.  Just wouldn't say
   they folded.  After all, a few guys did shoot better than Tiger in the
   final round.  Trouble is, they were way back to start! :-)

| A few slips here and there, he's 3 over, someone else is 3 under, all of a
| sudden it's a tournament!  He could lose the lead with a single swing
| of the club.  And that's a pressure he never felt.

** Yep.

| Would he have handled it?  More than likely :-)  But in my opinion,
| the field (with a few exception), especially those 9 or 10 back, folded.

** Again, at this level, being 9 or 10 back is a different ballgame than being
   six back.  Had Costantino shot a 67, he would still have been seven back
   at day's end.

| And also in my opinion, the fact that Faldo DID exert such pressure
| in 96 was the reason he won.  If he and everyone else shot mid-70s,
| I've no doubt Norman would have won.

** Good point, well taken.

   I'm suggesting that Tiger's lead after three rounds probably was over the
   threshold of others' belief that they could win even with their best game.
   Thus, people did "stupid" things.

| Well, them's my 2 cents...

** Probably worth more than mine.  I'm a hacker who may have too high an
   opinion of the top pros.  I wouldn't diminish Tiger's historic win by
   saying the field folded.

/Wayne

    Am I not mistaken in thinking that everyody seems to be under the
    impression that Tiger Woods is going to be "THE" dominant force in 
    the world of golf?
    
    Let us cast back a couple of years to a certain golfer called Ernie
    Els.
    
    Everyody then was saying the same things as he conquered the golfing
    stage by winning a Major Title.
    
    Look what has transpired since.
    
    Also with Nick Price, these are only recent.
    
    I appreciate that winning The Masters by 12 strokes is unbelievable
    golf but it is tough out there performing week in week out.
    
    Let us wait and see??
    

Everyone's been waiting for the "Next Nicklaus", the player who will raise the
bar a notch for everyone.  All the young amateur champions have gotten the tag
when they turned pro, from John Cook to Phil Mickelson.  None of them actually
lived up to this billing _except_ Tiger Woods so I think he's the real deal. 
Has Jack ever predicted that _anyone_ would win more than 10 green jackets?  Has
anyone ever been groomed for a golfing career better than Tiger?  I do think so.

JT

Lets not take anything away from Tiger's ability here. It was remarkable. 
But it was only one shot better than a certain Jack N.... a few years ago. 
The difference is that ALL the other players played badly compared to 
Tiger - so his MARGIN is what made him great last week.

So, the next Jack Niklaus ? Maybe.

    
    	Pretty sure even Jack admitted the course is totally different now
    	and it's much harder.  Greens are now bent and a lot quicker.  Much
    	of the course has been rebuilt, esp. after those rains several
    	years ago.  
    	Also, I wouldn't say the other players played badly.  Doesn't seem
    	too likely that everyone else except Tiger played badly that week.
    
    

    Yes, Jack in fact did say the course was much harder now than when he
    set his records.
    
    And, as my previous notes indicate, I fully concur with you that saying
    the field folded, or everyone except Tiger played badly, is
    inappropriate and is a disservice to both Tiger and the PGA Tour.

Whatever Tiger is, and so far his record says he is the best since Jack, he 
is in a different environment that when Jack came out... Just go to any 
newstand and count the number of magazines that have him on the cover. 
BusinessWeek is one of them, and the article talks obviously about money and 
how IMG is trying not to burn him and let him play golf so he can establish 
his own records. He doesn't need any more money now.

OK - point taken. My apologies to the rest of the field.

Alan

Actually, it's harder to win these days because there's more competition.  There
are a lot more players capable of winning on any given week that ever before and
this trend should continue.

JT

Any comments about the very illadvised remarks made by 
Fuzzy Zoeller about Tiger Woods at the Masters ?

Apparently this has caused Zoeller to lose Kmart as a sponsor.
Oops.

Extracted from an article on golfonline.com   w/o permission

********************************************************************************

	According to a transcript released by CNN, Zoeller said, 
	"That little boy is driving well and he's putting well.

	He's doing everything it takes to win. So, you know what 
	you guys do when he gets in here? You pat him on the
	back and say congratulations and enjoy it and tell him not 
	to serve fried chicken next year. Got it?" 

	On the tape, Zoeller snapped his fingers, turned to walk away, 
	then added, "Or collard greens or whatever the hell they serve." 

	As defending champion, Woods will get to select the menu 
	for next year's Champions Dinner. Woods won this
	year's tournament by a record 12 strokes, with a record 
	72-hole score, to become the youngest champion in
	Masters history. He is the first African-American as well as 
	the first Asian-American to win one of golf's four
	major championships. Zoeller won the 1979 Masters 

********************************************************************************

    

Fuzzy has apologized in public and withdrawn from this week's tournament, until 
 he personally apologizes to Tiger. To me it's too little, too late. It's 
really sad. I had a better opinion of him.

On a lighter comment, but again to highlight Tigermania, now the tabloids are 
digging into his personal life. And he is appearing with Opra as I type.

    
    Hi,
    
    Something just occurred to me: you will all have seen Nike's massive
    advertising campaign, where kids of different age and ethnic background
    look cockily into the camera and say "I'm Tiger Woods". This is
    obviously aimed at attracting groups that have never been a strong
    market within the golf world. 
    
    All this is very refreshing, but somehow I suspect that the traditional
    golfing public will continue to be a massive market and lest they be
    fogotten, the obvious alternative to the campaign is a number of white,
    middle-aged, fat, bald men accompanying another Masters winner with the
    statement: 
    
    
    
    "I'm the Walrus"
    
    what do you think?
    
    	cheers,
    
    		Stefan

> "I'm the Walrus"

 Goo Goo  Goo Joob
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]