Conference 7.286::golf

    
    	Yeah, but just how many commercials between all those
    	shots?!??!  Has anyone else noticed this?
    
    	Tom
    

	Yea Tom, it gets especially bad when the last couple of groups are 
	comming in, cause there is no other action on the course to go to, 
	and you have to wait for the players to walk to the ball, spend the 
	customary 5 min with wind/club/yard info and what not.

	Also I'm sure that the sponsers have some minimum number of minutes 
	that there ad's can run, so near the end, if its below minimum they 
	just keep showing commercials, and we have to watch the shot or tape, 
	rather than live.

	Turk

re: ...

My gripe is not only with the commercials, but with the breadth of coverage
lately.  It seems like the last couple of events I watched (one on TBS and one
on NBC) only covered the top 3-4 leaders...no one else.  This was especially
obvious in the TBS coverage of the Senior's Slam event where there were only 4
players and one, Trevino, was out of it score-wise.  After he got 5-6 shots 
behind, they never even showed his shots!

I don't mind them focusing on the leaders, but I tune in to watch *golf*, not
winners & losers.  I want to watch shots from a wide variety of folks, and am 
not all that interested in watching the 1-3 leaders line up a putt for 5 
minutes.  I'd rather watch someone swinging!

Anyhow, at one time I couldn't imagine *anyone* *watching* golf on TV.  Then I
became hooked, trying to find the secrets to the game.  If this continues, I'll
be tuning out, once again.

John

    
    	I agree 100% !!  CBS used to show tons of shots and ABC was
    	known for setting the stage and building the drama of the
    	leaders.  Like you, I'd rather see many more shots, esp. when
    	the leaders are lining up shots forever (Faldo, for example).
    
    	Tom
    

    NBC is by far the worst. Every broadcast they do is set to that
    exact same script. Show two or three shots ,1st page of the leaderboard
    and back to the Ads.

    	Ever wonder which holes were toughest on the PGA tour for the
    players? Here's the ranking from last year:
    
			1994 Toughest Holes
    Course                 Hole Par   Ydg    Avg  Tournament
                                                  Score
1.  PGA West Palmer Course    9   4   456  4.500  Bob Hope Chrysler Classic
2.  Oakmont CC               10   4   458  4.474  U.S. Open
3.  Westchester CC           12   4   476  4.463  Buick Classic
4.  English Turn Golf & CC    8   4   471  4.440  Freeport-McMoRan Classic
5.  Augusta National GC      12   3   155  3.434  The Masters
6.  Oakmont CC                1   4   463  4.433  U.S. Open
7.  Pebble Beach Golf Link    9   4   464  4.426  AT&T Pebble Beach
8.  Southern Hills CC         2   4   458  4.423  PGA Championship
9.  Riviera CC               18   4   447  4.396  L.A. Open
10. Tucson National Golf     10   4   456  4.389  Telecom Open
10. Riviera CC                2   4   460  4.389  Nissan L.A. Open
12. Augusta National GC       4   3   205  3.386  The Masters
13. Southern Hills CC        18   4   430  4.385  PGA Championship
14. Oakmont CC               16   3   228  3.372  U.S. Open
15. Spyglass Hill GC         16   4   465  4.369  AT&T Pebble Beach
16. Oakmont CC               15   4   467  4.366  U.S. Open
17. En-Joic GC               15   4   476  4.365  B.C. Open
18. Annandale GC              4   4   465  4.363  Guaranty Golf
19. Oakmont CC               18   4   452  4.359  U.S. Open
20. Doral Resort & CC        13   3   246  3.356  Ryder Open
21. Starpass GC              12   4   430  4.355  Northern Telecom Open
22. Westchester CC           15   4   477  4.349  Buick Classic
23. Riviera CC                4   3   238  3.343  Nissan L.A. Open
24. Torrey Pines - South      7   4   453  4.335  Buick Invitational of Calif
25. Spyglass Hill GC          8   4   395  4.330  AT&T Pebble Beach
25. Forest Oaks CC           14   4   438  4.330  Kmart GGO
27. Glen Abbey GC            14   4   426  4.329  Canadian Open
28. Westchester CC           11   4   444  4.327  Buick Classic
29. DoralResort & CC          4   3   237  3.326  Doral-Ryder Open
30. Poppy Hills              13   4   390  4.324  AT&T Pebble Beach
31. Oakmont CC                8   3   249  3.323  U.S. Open
32. Westen Hills CC          15   4   455  4.322  Honda Classic
33. PGA West- Palmer Course  10   4   455  4.320  Bob Hope Chrysler Classic
33. TPC at Avenel            12   4   472  4.320  Kemper Open
33. Annandale GC             14   4   473  4.320  Deposit Guaranty Golf
36. Spyglass hill GC          1   5   600  5.318  AT&T Pebble Beach
36. Westchester CC            8   4   455  4.318  Buick Classic
38. TPC at Avenel            15   4   467  4.314  Kemper Open
39. Muirfield Village GC     18   4   437  4.307  The Memorial
40. Muirfield Village GC      2   4   452  4.302  The Memorial
41. Rivera CC                 9   4   418  4.300  Nissan L.A. Open
42. Eagle Pines               5   4   463  4.298  Walt Disney/Oldsmobile
43. WestsonHills CC           5   3   197  3.295  Honda Classic
45. Forest Oaks CC            4   3   190  3.293  Kmart GGO
46. English Turn G & CC      14   4   469  4.292  Freeport-McMoRan Classic
47. Pebble Beach Golf Link   10   4   426  4.291  AT&T Pebble Beach
48. Cottonwood Valley GC     15   4   441  4.289  GTE Byron Nelson Classic
48. Southern Hills CC        14   3   207  3.289  PGA Championship
48. Firestone CC (North)     18   4   470  4.289  NEC World Series of Golf
    

>>3.  Westchester CC           12   4   476  4.463  Buick Classic
>>4.  English Turn Golf & CC    8   4   471  4.440  Freeport-McMoRan Classic
>>17. En-Joic GC               15   4   476  4.365  B.C. Open
>>22. Westchester CC           15   4   477  4.349  Buick Classic

	470+ yd par fours! I can barely par the 471 yd par *5* at my home 
	course, and thats driver,5-wood,wedge, (a full wedge) sometimes its 
	humbling how short off the tee I am.

	The coverage on NBC leaves much to be desired, they sometime show 
	five or six guys putting for pars and birdies, but you never see 
	how they got there, I too prefer to watch the full swing, maybe a long
	birdie or important birdie putt, but how they got there is more 
	important

	Turk

    
    	Agree with everyone so far! Golf on TV sucks - makes baseball
    games from spring training look good this year ;-).
    
    	Interesting last note. Have played Augusta and I'm surprises
    only one hole made the top 22. I thought the whole back nine was
    a killer...
    
    	Just hope the weather holds one more day here in Chicago, so I can
    play Cog Hill 4 Saturday. Happy St. Patricks Day, all...
    
    
    		the Greyhawk

    Greyhawk---
    Good luck at Cog Hill.  After the St. Paddy's celebration here, don't
    know how I'll fare in my 7 a.m. Saturday tournament.  Oh well,
    priorities !
    	On the subject of TV golf, everyone else has already commented on
    my pet peeves except one.  Too much focus on the putts.  They setup 4
    cameras on the last four holes and then spend about 50% of their time
    on the putts, the reactions, the lineup, the plumb bob, everyone
    commenting on how or why it was or wasn't a good putt.  Bottom line it
    costs nothing to setup cameras and sit around commenting on the
    putting.  Takes more money and a committment to the game to show all
    aspects of the game equally...including all the cute female spectators.  
    	FWIW.....

    
    	I think TV likes putting because it is something everybody can
    do...as opposed to drawing a fade 210 yds into the wind and hitting
    the green DNO. The really funny thing is many of the commentators
    couldn't do it either ;-)
    
    	Oh, well... I'm going to play TPC in WPB next month with my *real*
    golfing buddies, so the hell with 'em on TV.
    
    	Another question comes to mind - why no TV on the front nine?
    
    
    		the Greyhawk

re .10
	What's so cool about using a laptop at a golf course?... and what in
	the name of Bobby Jones is "drawing a fade"?  You got some kind of a
	screwball for double doglegs??
						JT

	re .10


	get OFF that laptop and go practice some putts!!!!!
	

	a laptop at the course........!?!?!?!?!?!


	
	Joe


	

	Didn't get to see much of the Nestle, as I was on the course myself, 
	we finished up at 5:45 from a 1:30 tee time so all in all the pace of 
	play was really good.

	Looks like Peter Jacobsen made a move, but ran outa holes, that and 
	the fact that he bogeyed 18, Loren Roberts is really playing well as 
	of late, like to know what these guys figure out to start playing like 
	that.

	Turk

    
    	Geez, guys, lighten up.
    
    	I'm in sales. Golf is a selling tool. A DEC laptop connected to
    	our "worldwide network" using NOTES over a cellular phone link
    	while we are having a beer or two after a game makes a lasting
    	impression. Or would you rather the HP rep show 'em?
    
    		the Greyhawk

re:14   OK, I quess I jumped down your throat a little.  Maybe because you're
	out on the course and I'm not.  I go there to get away and the most
	technical piece of equipment I bring is a graphite shaft.  Keep selling
	any way you can!

	Now, back to TV coverage - Does anyone out there hate Vin Scully's
	consistently stupid comments as much as I do?  Ken Venturi is going into
	semi-retirement after this year and I'll really miss him.  And isn't
	Johnny Miller the best one out there on any network?
								JT

    
    	I really Ken Venturi, I think he knows the game, and the pressure
    of certain situations, Peter Kostis as a rover is pretty good. 
    
    	Johnny Miller is very honest in his assessment, and I like that,
    but I dislike NBC's overall coverage, I just can't stomach Musberger on 
    ABC, and think generally that my order of preference for golf coverage
    is 1.) CBS 2.)ESPN 3.)NBC 4.)ABC (I do like the fact that the majors on ABC
    have thursday/friday coverage on ESPN)
    	
    	I like some others think to much time is spent on putts, and not
    enough on how they go into position to make those putts. I generally
    enjoy watching the telecasts, specially on rainy weekends.
    
    	Turk

    Like Ken Venturi and Johnny Miller very much......CAN'T STAND GARY
    McCORD!  He goes on and on making STUPID remarks and snide comments 
    on just about ever shot no matter who the golfer is.  How does he
    qualify for such a job anyway!!!!!  With all the displeasure I've
    read in this notes file, I'm sure there are many out there with the
    same opinions about the TV coverage but haven't responded, isn't
    there an address available to write and express our frustration where 
    it might do some good.  If anyone has an address please post it here.
    
    
       

	McCord used to really get on my nerves but you have to accept him for
	what he is - a real clown.  He gets away with it because he has great
	knowledge of the game, excellent insight as to what's going on and he
	can still play.  He shows up in a couple of tournaments a year and has
	learned some restraint for coverage of the Masters.
								JT

	Last night I read in the newest GOLF magazine that McCord has been
	banned from commentating at The Masters.  I'm really not surprised.
	Something about calling the greens "bikini waxed".
								JT

    FWIW, I find McCord humorous...
    
    There was an article in Golf Digest a few months backs which stated one
    reason for the ban was a letter Tom Watson wrote to the tournament
    chairman which criticized McCord.  The next month there were many
    letters from readers printed supporting McCord and criticizing Watson.
    
    Dan 

    	Re .15

    	I think I hate Vin Scully's broadcasting as much as you do.
    	He really sounds like he know nothing about the game.

    	As to McCord, I like him very much. Yea...he's different,
    	but I find him funny, especially his exchanges with
    	the_very_formal_British_guy_whose_name_I_cant_remember.
    
    	As for his ban at the Masters, I believe something happened
    	which caused a great crowd to move. Something like the start
    	of a playoff, of perhaps if they allow the crowd onto the
    	fairway following the final group. I believe McCord used
    	the words "herd" or something similar to describe the rush
    	of the crowd.
    
    					Ed
    
    

    
    	Great weekend golf touneys this week. 
    
    	Davis Love III needed to win the Freeport/MacMoran in N.0. to get
    an invite to the Masters this week, he had a 2 shot lead with 2 holes
    left to play, and bogeyed both 17  and 18, to allow Mike Heinen into a
    playoff. Mike woulda won the touney outright but hit his second shot at
    18 (about 4 groups ahead of Davis) into the water, from the fairway
    bunker. Anyways it went to sudden death, they both made par at 18, and
    at 17 Davis hit his tee shot to 3 feet, made birdie and won. I was
    really happy for him, he kinda choked up in the interview right after,
    you could tell he really wanted to get to the Masters.
    
    	Jack needed three playoff holes to beat Aioki in the Tradition out
    in Scottsdale, Jack played well the final round, as did Aioki and Jim
    Feree (who came in 3rd), the win should give Jack a real boost going
    into the Masters, as he was putting as well as he has in a long time,
    he even said after the victory that it was his best 4 days of putting
    in recent memory. The greens at the Cochiese course were very fast and
    you know Augusta will be the same way.
    
    	Although not PGA caliber, I managed to get in two rounds this
    weekend also, but it was on the chilly side here in Cinci, low 50's.
    
    	Turk

                       <<< Note 1997.21 by DECC::VOGEL >>>
                         -< Vin Scully is the worst!! >-
>    	As to McCord, I like him very much. Yea...he's different,
>    	but I find him funny, especially his exchanges with
>    	the_very_formal_British_guy_whose_name_I_cant_remember.

That's Ben Wright who's McCord's foil.
    
>    	As for his ban at the Masters, I believe something happened
>    	which caused a great crowd to move. Something like the start
>    	of a playoff, of perhaps if they allow the crowd onto the
>    	fairway following the final group. I believe McCord used
>    	the words "herd" or something similar to describe the rush
>    	of the crowd.

Actually, Ed, it was his comment that the green at 14 was so slick it was 
like they used bikini wax. Watson wrote to Augusta to complain about McCord 
in general and used the wax comment as an example. They probably would've 
banned McCord eventually anyway. They're a stuffy bunch. The incident 
I think you're thinking of concerned Jack Whitticker (sp?). Clifford 
Roberts banned him because he refered to the crowd at Augusta as a "mob." 
Man, if they can't stomach that, they're not going to tolerate McCord for 
long!

I can live with Augusta's snootiness, though. Even welcome it. They've kept 
the commercialism of television at bay, which has made the Masters far and 
away the best tournament to watch all year. The hellish greens, reachable 
par-5s, and two of the best par 3s in the world on the back nine don't 
hurt either...

Tom    
    

	A good tourney this past weekend, the MCI Heritage Classic at 
	Harbour Towne Golf Links in S.C.

	Bob Tway won on the second playoff hole, the par 3 17th when he put 
	his tee shot two about 2 feet. It was nice to see him win again, the
	first time since 1990, he had really fallen off the map in the last 3
	years, to something about 170 or 80 on the money list.

	There was a lot of good golf played on Sunday, Mark McCumber and David 
	Frost were playing well as was Nolan Henke. The 18th was seen on some 
	great drama again this year, Frost in the next to last group needed to 
	birdie the 18th to tie for the lead at 9 under, his approach rolled 
	right past the cup and stopped about 4 feet away, he made birdie to 
	get into the playoff, McCumber needed a par to remain 9 under on 18 to 
	get into the playoff, his approach was long and slightly right, he 
	chipped up to about 4 feet, and missed the par putt, it dipped into the 
	hole, but would'nt fall. He really rushed his normal routine and seemed 
	to play the last couple of shots way too quick.

	Frost bogeyed the first playoff hole (Tway, Henke and Frost in the 
	playoff) all three players missed the green on the approach shots, with 
	a two club wind at their backs. Tway and Henke got up and down for 
	par's. On the par 3 17th the second sudden death hole, Tway put it to 
	two feet, Henke into the bunker, and made bogey, so Tway only needed 
	par to win, he "lagged" his two footer, missing it left and tapped in 
	for par for the win. He was a little choked up in the brief interview 
	afterwards.

	Turk

	Did'nt get to see too much of the GGO this weekend, but the last few 
	holes I did see were pretty good. I felt bad for Sluman, I've always 
	liked him, and wished he coulda pulled it out. Jacobson got robbed so 
	bad by the putt on 17, I can't believe how well he handled it, I would 
	have been fit to be tied. Then on 18 he hits a good shot about 3 feet 
	short, and ends up with a next to impossible stance in the bunker, and 
	makes bogey. Jim Gallerger wins the touney by being the first to post 
	14 under, he was over beating balls on the practice range, certain that 
	he would wind up in a playoff, and thats where he got the news that 
	he won the tournement.

	Turk

     Check out the Web coverage for this week's Houston Open.  They have a
     video camera and digitizer capturing the leader board, and sending a
     GIF image over the net (it shows the top 10.)  Hopefully, this will be
     updated more frequently than the Master's leaderboards.

     The URL is http://www.infohwy.com:80/sho/

     Bill

	I've missed the last couple of tourney's on TV due to either playing
	golf myself (novel ideal) or doing some honey-do's (landscaping mostly).

	I have been kinda following Ben Wrights story in regards to the 
	LPGA and the controversy his *alleged* remarks have sparked. A print 
	reporter wrote in an interview with him that he remarked that 
	Lesbianism was hurting Corprate sponsership of the LPGA tour and that 
	womens breasts were preventing them from keeping their left arm straight
	on the backswing or some such thing as that.

	Wright immediately denied ever having said any such things, said he 
	looking into legal action against the reporter, and CBS drew much 
	critisim for allowing Wright to continue to cover the LPGA event that 
	CBS was broadcasting that week.

	My opionion is that I doubt the reporter would have contrived those 
	quotes completly, and that Wright did say something probably very close 
	to what was reported. I also think that those remarks have a grain of 
	truth to them, as Martina Navatrralova has stated that her openly gay 
	lifestyle has cost her millions in sponsership over her career. I don't 
	know that CBS should have pulled Wright from the coverage, but thats 
	a tough call. The gay community seems the most outraged but many feel 
	it may actually help their cause for equality, and Patty Sheehan has 
	an article in todays USA Today that it may help in the search for a 
	new commisiner, although I did'nt quite make the connection.

	Any thoughts on this, I enjoy watching the women play,and have'nt given
	any thought their sexual orentation, they are actually more comparable 
	to me in lenght off the tee, and hole length that I normally play. Plus 
	I think on aveage the swing tempo and mechanics is better on the LPGA 
	tour than the two mens tours.

	Turk

    Re:       <<< Note 1997.27 by TEAM01::TURCOTTE "Its a shame about Ray..." >>>

    I agree that he must have  touched  those subjects and I believe that
    the statements have some merit:  sponsors  dislike  being involved in
    areas that may give them some press other than what their sponsorship
    is  trying to accomplish.  And professional women golfers  have  made
    the same comment in relation to breasts.
    
    The issue as I see it  is  again  the  media  trying  to  exploit the
    situation,  and  Wright  not  being  careful  about what subjects  he
    touches, even if he didn't intend to be negative to  the  LPGA.  Hey,
    it was paying his salary that week!

	Well I agree that Wright should have weighed his words carefully and 
	considered the repercussions of what he allegedly said. I can also 
	understand the concern of gay community. Having said that, it would 
	seem that the gay community would welcome this news if in fact it is 
	accuate that corporate sponsership is being hurt by the real or 
	percieved lesbianism on the LPGA, simply because they can use this as 
	a way to gain wider acceptance and less stigma attached to that 
	lifestyle.
	Secondly it seems a disturbing trend that a "reporter" can not state 
	what seems to be fact without the political correct police calling for 
	his head, the rest of the media, instead of investigating the 
	reasonable assersion that sponsership is "afraid" of the lesbian issue
	and reluctant to fund tournements, instead covers the more benign and 
	sensational issue of the dispute between two reporters.
	
	Turk

[from http://web1.starwave.com:80/pga/leaders.html]

Ideon Classic -- first round

Leaders as of July 27, 1995, 3:39pm ET

    Name                   Score     Hole

 1. Ken Green               -5         F
 1. Jim McGovern            -5         F
 1. Jim Carter              -5         F
 1. George Burns            -5         F
 1. Mark Wurtz              -5         F
 1. P.H. Horgan III         -5         F
 1. Gene Sauers             -5        14
 8. Fred Funk               -4        12
 8. Doug Martin             -4         F
 8. John Adams              -4         F
 8. Lennie Clements         -4         F
 8. Howard Twitty           -4         F
 8. Rick Fehr               -4         F
 8. Tom Byrum               -4         F
 8. Jay Williamson          -4         F

Purse: $1 million
Site: Pleasant Valley Country Club, Gutton, MA.
Par=36-35: 71