Conference 7.286::golf

    Re:                  <<< Note 1970.0 by SHRMSG::LAROCCO "MARK" >>>

    I have played the  Topflite  Zbalata,  since  it is still a synthetic
    cover, it plays better (feel and spin) than other synthetic balls, is
    much more durable than "real" balata balls, but not as good.  Nothing
    compares to the "real" thing.  But then its very expensive since they
    get damaged more easily.
    
    By the way Titleist new tour balata (introduced last  year)  is  more
    durable than before, but you can still get it out  of  round  and put
    smiles on it.

    So if you play the "real" thing, you may want to use the topflite for
    non-competitive rounds.

    You mentioned that you get the ball in an "out of round" condition. How
    do you know it is and under what conditions does this happen? Do you
    have any idea what you're club head speed is for your driver?
    
    I didn't realize that the other ballatas weren't really the real thing.
    Is there any other manufacturer that does come out with the real thing
    besides Titleist?
    
    Regards,
    
    Mark
    

    Re:                  <<< Note 1970.2 by SHRMSG::LAROCCO "MARK" >>>

    Most of the times, a  quick  visual  inspection  will  show  you if a
    balata ball is "out of round"  (I  don't  know if this is the correct
    term), but in any case, golf catalogs  have  a  gadget to check this.
    It is a simple piece of metal with  a  round  hole  the  size  of the
    typical golf ball.
    
    Most of the times the ball gets out of round by a mishit  that may or
    may  not  cut the cover, and it doesn't have anything to do with club
    speed.
    
    As far as  I  know  the  Toflite  Zbalata  is  the  only ball that is
    synthetic.  I would guess that  is  why  the put the "Z" and that any
    other ball that calls itself made of  balata,  is (Maxfli, Slazenger,
    etc.)
    
    

    
    by the way, a ball can be lopsided while being perfectly spherical, and
    most balls are.
    
    you can see this by dissolving plenty of salt in a glass of warm water
    and spinning the ball in the solution.  When it stops, mark the top of
    the ball with a waterproof mark, and spin it again.  If it stops with 
    the same mark pointing upwards, you've got a lopsided ball.  If it
    stops in a different place, then mark the new spot.  Balls with two
    dots are balanced, balls with one dot (two dots on top of each other)
    are lopsided.
    
    a fairly small fraction of wound balls are perfectly balanced.  keep
    your "two dot" balls in a separate bag and use them for a psychological
    edge when you've just *got* to make that big putt.
    
    /jim
    

    
    ...oh, and if you've got a lopsided ball, at least put the heavy end
    straight up (or down) before you hit it, especially for putts.
    
    they also make great Christmas gifts to your favorite competitors  :)
    
    

    .4
    
    ha !! at long last - this explains all those missed putts :-)

    
    	They have done tests with a computer controlled robotic putting
    robot. On a perfectly flat putting green and putting the ball the same
    way, same speed everytime, from something like 6ft.
   	I was amazed that the robot missed the putt about 70% of the time.
    The main core of the golf ball is not the very center of the ball. So
    the machine missed putts anywhere from a little to 8 inches, either way
    left or right. The putts ended up reacting just like a curve ball in
    baseball.
    
    Ron

       I've got to believe that there was something wrong with the robot. I
    agree that balls don't always have perfect centers (weight
    distribution) but to miss 70% seems an error was introduced into the
    process. Take for example a good golfer; they would make that putt at
    least 50% of the time while the touring pros would probably be in the
    range of 80% success. Otherwise, you wouldn't see the scores that they
    achieve. Even practicing in my living room, my success rate is a lot
    higher than 30%.
    
    Mark
    

    
    	I think the key to the test was the speed. In your living room
    you can hit the ball harder and keep it online. Same thing with
    a pro on the practice green. Also most putts are not flat straight
    putts. There is always a break, or up/down hill.
    	The other thing with the test. They probably found which balls were
    off-centered the most and used those for the test. Then figured out
    which side of the ball had the most weight. So when they put it down to
    putt they knew exactly how to place the ball. To get the greatest
    movement out of the ball. This is why I was always told. Mark your ball
    and place it in the same starting position every time before putting.
    So if the ball is off centered you get the same roll every putt.
    
    Ron

    I'm a low handicapper and can really tell the diffference between 
    titleist balata and other balls.  The biggest difference for me is that
    the ball feels softer the hotter the temerature.  Before a round I'll
    run hot water in the mens room to fill a sink and put the three balls
    I carry in the hot water along with my hands until the balls get
    warm.  I'll dry them and keep them in my packet when I play.  
    Mike

    
    btw, one reason the pros make so many 6'-ers is that they pre-select
    the true rollers.  There's a little incline machine that you roll balls
    down...  if it makes it the whole way down without veering left or
    right it falls into the "good bucket", otherwise it falls off into one
    of the gutters.  The gutter balls don't go into the pros' bag.
    
    I once read that the average touring pro only makes 50% of their 6'
    putts, which seems pretty low.  That's with the best balls, natural
    talent, generally good conditions, and lots and lots of practice.  Your
    mileage may vary.  
    
    Keep that in mind the next time you miss that 6 footer for birdie!
    
    /jim
    

    pros percentages on putts from golf digest 1987:
    
    
    25' make 4-13%
    
    20' make 6-16%
    
    15' make 10-22%
    
    10' make 10-30%
    
     5' make 45-65%
    
    

    I'll just reply to this "En Masse"....
    Most of what was discussed in this topic is in Dave Pelz's book on 
    "Scientific Putting"......
    Read the Book it's all in there.....
    Most of the missed 6' putts are due to deterioration of the putting
    surface around the cup.......Spike Marks + The fact that the Grass
    Grows during the day and the characteristics of the greens change 
    throughout the day...
    Anyway.....For all you "Balata Lovers" try the Titleist Professional
    Ball (Introduced Last Spring)....$40/Dozen.......Balata + Synthetic
    Covering...Very Soft lots of action on your shots....BUT...
    Just like any ball with a soft thin covering....one mishit and your
    ball will be smiling at you...
    
    Mark
    

    re: .-1 Scientific Putting ?????????
    
    it's all feel no science
    
    {;^)

    re .13 - Don't forget that you cannot repair spike marks.  Marks left
    by the ball hitting the green can be repaired - spike marks cannot. 
    In match play it results in loss of hole.  In medal play it results
    in a two stroke penalty.
    Have any of you ever hit the specially woud 110-115 compression balls
    from titleist.  They are truely amazing.  I'm straight with less than
    avaerge distance and a low handicap finesse player. These balls 
    soar.  It's almost like one of the pros hit it.  260-270 no problem.
    Normally I am thrilled with 235.
    

    
    re: 115 compression
    
    	Geez!  is that legal?  Are white dimpled superballs next?
    
    /jim
    

    Titleist claims that tese balls are specially wound and given to the
    pros.  Why would they be illegal?
    

    
    re: why would they be illegal
    
        as I understand it, balls must conform to a maximum initial speed
    	when struck by 'Iron Byron' or some-such ball machine.  Faster
    	than that maximum and it's not a golf ball.
    
    	with all the competition over ball distance, I'm quite sure that
    	manufacturers have all got their balls to within .1% of this
    	maximum, if not closer.  This is why you'll hear advertisements
    	like "we have the longest ball" rather than "our ball hits longer
    	than any other ball".  A (maybe) subtle but important difference.  
    
        the variables they've got to play with are trajectory and air
    	resistance, i.e. dimple design, minor variations in size & possibly
    	weight, and ball & cover composition....  but not speed.
    
    	I guess that an assumption that I'm making is that if you wind the
    	ball tighter it will come off the club faster and go farther. 
    	Since you've already told us that you get substantially more 
    	distance using these balls, that sounds like a reasonable
    	conclusion.
    
    	Sooo...  it sounds like it should be illegal, but who knows?

    I'm just a country boy.  Seems to me that 110-115 is illegal too.
    Question.  When pros play in a tournament where do the balls that they
    play with come from-does each mfg give some balls to the PGA and they
    pass them out - or what ?
    

    re .4    Brand new Tit. balls out of the box, 100 comp. tour balata.
           Four of them would not pass through the gadget that identifies
           if a ball is round or not.
    
    re 15/18  Am I mistaken ? I thought you would have to generate more
            clubhead speed to hit higher compression balls further.
    
    Paul

    
    re: .-1  I thought you would have to generate more clubhead speed...
    
        Well, I'm not a physicist...  in fact I'm not even sure I'm
    	spelling it correctly.  But if we can assume that a superball
    	would travel farther than a golf ball when hit with the same
    	club travelling at the same speed, then I think the answer to
    	your question is "no".
    
    /jim