Conference 7.286::golf

Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: [email protected] (Jeff Paulson)
Subject: Walker Cup first day results
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 19 Aug 93 09:15:49 CDT
 
The individual matches were played
in the afternoon on a VERY wet Interlachen Country Club. The results
were as follows:
 
Alen Doyle (US) defeated Iain Pyman (GB/Ire) - 1 up
Matt Stanford (GB/Ire) defeated David Berganio (US) 3&2
Dean Robertson (GB/Ire) defeated Jay Sigel (US) - 3&2
Kelly Mitchum (US) halved with Stuart Cage (GB/Ire)
Tim Herron (US) defeated Padraig Harrington (GB/Ire) - 1 up
Danny Yates (US) defeated Paul Page (GB/Ire) - 2&1
Todd Demsey (US) defeated Raymond Russell (GB/Ire) - 2&1
Justin Leonard (US) defeated Raymond Burns (GB/Ire) - 4&3
Van Phillips (GB/Ire) defeated Brian Gay (GB/Ire) - 2&1
John Harris (US) defeated Bradley Dredge (GB/Ire) - 4&3
 
Foursome and individual matches will be played today.  There is no
rain in the forecast...
 
Jeff Paulson
[email protected]

    
    What about the fella Allen Doyle that set up and swing is unreal.
    
    I stayed up to watch it on TV and thought I had tuned into a local
    course showing a monthly medal when they showed Doyle.
    
    As crazy as it seems it puts all the talk in note 1755 (I think) into
    perspective (Grip, Stance, Plane etc etc). Good luck to him I would buy
    his scores any day.
    
    FOOUUUURRRRRRR 

    Why the suprise about Doyle?
    Many golfers over the years have strange swings if it works and repeats
    its good simple as that.
    
    Zinger has got a bad swing but he is a great golfer as Trevino,
    Darcy and many other great swingers.
    
    Paralysis by Analysis ever heard that, there is a danger of getting to
    technical, if it works use it.
    
    What the golf purists dont realise is peoples arms and legs and muscles
    are different, whats good for one might not work for another.
    
    Watch Normans right foot at impact thats strange.
    
    
    Lasher

    
    Joe have you looked in the mirror and given up with Fundamentals ?
    
    remember your note 1755.25
    
    < If you have poor fundamentals you may as well jump under a bus you
    will never break 80.
    
    Good job Doyle, Trevino and Darcy never looked in on that note.
    
    I agree that the swing dont have to look pretty to be effective.
    
    
    

    From the final results the "ancient americans" did pretty well.
    
    Ancient Americans	19
    Young Brits/Irish    5
    
    Walker Cup Series 
    USA			30
    British/Irish        3
    ties		 1
    
    Allen Doyle of LaGrange Ga.  3-0
    He of the strange swing.
    
    Allen Doyle is a bit of character.  He runs a driving range outside
    Atlanta.  He has a running fued with the Georgia State Amatuer Golf
    Association, he doesn't participate in any of their sanctioned events.
    His goal is to join the PGA Senior Tour when he's old enough.  He's my
    bet for the US Amatuer next week.
    

    Well done America , a good win.
    
    
    That guy Doyle sounds bit of a card, if he were English he would not
    make the side, over here if you dont bow and scrape you dont get in,
    its who you know not how you play.
    
    Our Matchplay Champ was not even picked.
    
    We dont pick on results you guys do.
    
    I think you will win the Ryder Cup, we have got some weak links in our
    team, no names i dont want to upset any readers.
    
    

I watched the Cup on Thursday and Friday night, and saw some 
great golf.  Does anyone know what these guys handicaps are ? I'm 
assuming they're all in the plus xxx range.

Randall (swings like a gorilla haning from a tree.)

    The Ryder Cup will feature more of our ancient americans but I say
    experienced would be more to the point.  Captain Tom Watson has picked
    both Ray Floyd and Lanny Wadkins.  Ray is over 50 and plays on the
    Senior Tour as well as the PGA Tour.  Lanny is well into his 40's.
    Along with Tom Kite another older golfer in his 40's the US will have a
    mature team.
    
    How is the European Ryder Cup team chosen?  I thought they used the
    European Order of Merit from the European tour.  Its a shame the 
    British/Irish Walker participants aren't picked by some qualification
    method.  
    
    With the Ryder Cup on your turf it should be another close and exciting
    event.

Re: .8

I bought a Golf Monthly on the way home last night and saw the 
following GB&I handicaps:-

Raymond Burns, Northern Ireland,     +3
Stuart Cage, England,                +2
Bradley Dredge, Wales,               +2
Pardaig Harrington, Eire,            +1
Paul Page, England,                  +2
Van Phillips, England,               +2
Iain Pyman, England,                 +3
Dean Robertson, Scotland,            +3 (born in Canada)
Raymond Russell, Scotland,           +2
Mathew Stanford, England,            +2 (born in Wales)

Imagine having a +3 handicap. Everytime you go on a golf course 
you have to shoot three under Par.  

Interestingly enough, I looked at Iain Pyman's score at The 
(British) Open.  He finished up on 281, which is one over par for 
the four rounds.  Now if he is a +3 handicapper, he should have 
gone round in -12.  So technically he is actually 11 shots above 
his handicap.  Not very good really, is it ?

;-}

    
    It is interesting how our GB/IRL Walker cup team is picked, I wish I
    could find out, young blood is nice to see but a winning team must have
    experience too.
    
    I was talking to the Pro at my club and he informed me that if you are
    selected for the Walker cup (GB/IRL) you get 20 exempt starts in the
    European tour events for the next season. So, if you turn pro after the
    walker cup you could win enough money not to have to go to the tour
    qualifying school ever, that is much easier than Woosnam and Lane who
    made something like 13 trips to the school between them to make the
    tour.
    
    I bet all the GB/IRL team harbour ambitions of being pro's and I would
    suspect the people picking the teams would like to see them do well as
    pro's too.
    
    
    
    

    Being a good Am does not mean you will be a good Pro,
    many times people have had brilliant Amateur careers only
    to fade and die on the Pro circuit.
    
    Russell Claydon
    Phillip Parkin
    
    and many more.
    
    USA to win Ryder cup by 5 clear points!!!!

    re: 10
    
    the +3 is usually figured from the best 10 of last 20 rounds, so
    you can have 2/3 bad rounds and your normal good rounds and your
    handicap won't change much....
    
    everyone has good days and bad days, the key is to score well when
    having a bad round...and 1 over for four days isn't that bad in my
    book...
    

    re: 10 & 13
    
    Not only is 1 over not bad for four days, it is probably right in line
    with the +3 handicap.  A handicap is not a measure of what you should
    shoot on an average day.  It is a measure of what you are capable of
    on a good day.  Additionally, handicap is derived from course rating
    not the par rating.  Since at least half of the rounds these pros and
    top amateurs play are on difficult golf courses, it is very likely that
    to get to a +3 they need only average 72 for half of the rounds they
    play.
    
    Ex.   Player plays 20 rounds of golf at Kemper Lakes. Course Rating
    75.9, Slope 135.  Player shoots 72 in each round. This players index
    is a +3.1.
    
    Most pros are probably in the +3 to +5 range.  Tom Watson in his best
    year was a +6.  There are plenty of scratch to +3 players who would
    starve on the pro circuits.
    
    								_Greg

The one thing I love about Note-ing, is how topics and replies 
meander across subject matter.

In the U.K. Handicaps are the responsibility of the country golf 
union; hence the English Golf Union could have a different system 
to the Scottish Golf Union,...  I don't claim to know all the ins 
and outs about handicapping, but I do know that there are 
different catgories viz.

   18-28
   11-17
    5-10
    0-4
    +n

In the higher categories, if you play to below the Competition 
Scratch Score, you get 0.3, 0.2, 0.1 deducted for every shot 
below CSS e.g. if an 11 handicapper shoots a 76 on a CSS of 70, 
then his handicap would be altered by ((76-70)-11) = -1.5. This 
is handled by your own Handicap Secretary.

However, if you are in the 0-4 category, handicapping is strictly 
marshalled by the County Union to which you belong.  The buffer 
zone, i.e. the nubmer of shots above Standard Scratch is 
controlled, and all competition scores must be recorded and 
returned to the County Union for validation.

In the plus range, the rules are even tighter.

In the U.K we have no equivalent of the slope system, although 
the Scottish Golf Union is currently considering implementing it. 
I agree that Standard Scratch is an unfair system, especially 
when you think that Muirfield is the same SSS as my local club.

A few weeks ago, I played with a couple of friends and a few 
local golf pros at Royal Liverpool, Hoylake.  This was set up for 
the Amateur Home Internationals, and we were

    Group 2 ends at 12
    Group 3 starts at 13
    
    I know this as i am always going up and down like a yo yo 
    between them.
    I dont know about groups 1 and 4 as i never get near them, 
    well i get near 4 but i dont put my cards in!!!!
    
    4 right

    Finish the Royal Liverpool story - it's one of the places in the world
    I would most like to see, along with Royal Melbourne, and Sunningdale
    (Old...).
    
    __Jack

    I can tell you about Sunningdale, caddied as a boy.
    I have plyaed the old course several times the latest in May
    playing for my club v The Dale (As its known)
    
    The fairest course i have ever played , its a joy to walk on let
    alone play the condition is fantastic.
    
    Prince Andrew plays there he never loses a ball ,
    the reason being he has two bodyguards who go ahead of
    him one right and one left as a security precaution.
    
    So when he hooks or slices one they are there to find it, that is
    the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
    
    When caddying as a 15 year old youth i was not interested in golf
    only money as were most of the caddies.
    One day on the 13th 2 other caddies were smoking one dropped
    a cigarette end in the other bag, by the 17th smoke was coming
    out of the bag all the clubs were tipped out and the material
    lining was smouldering away.
    The owner went mental i was laffing like a drain, if my memory
    serves me right the caddy never got a tip.
    
    Both of those are true stories Tales from the Dale,
    
    Many more tales but i dont think people would believe them,
    i dont and i was there!!!!!!
    
    Ex Caddies Asoc..........
    
    A Tip on caddying, if the golfer says did you get a line on that as he
    carves one away always say yes, he never thats why he asked you, if you find the ball he
    thanks you if not he aint no wiser.

Sorry, Jack. When the story left my terminal it was complete.  
I've added some more.

To continue ...

>> In the U.K we have no equivalent of the slope system, although 
>> the Scottish Golf Union is currently considering implementing it. 
>> I agree that Standard Scratch is an unfair system, especially 
>> when you think that Muirfield is the same SSS as my local club.

>>A few weeks ago, I played with a couple of friends and a few 
local golf pros at Royal Liverpool, Hoylake.  Usual betting 
stakes, �20 a head, winner takes all.  Hoylake was set up for 
the Amateur Home Internationals, and we were keen to play off the 
championship tees.  This was agreed with the starter, extending 
the course from 6,100 yards to 6,900 yards i.e. very long.

Hoylake is actually in the middle of a small village, not very 
impressive as you approach it, nestled between a fish and chip 
shop and a newsagents.  In the car park you have no idea how 
tough the course is.  As soon as you walk round the side of the 
club house you are hit by a force 8 gale, 7 days a week, 52 weeks 
a year.  The first hole is roughly 420 yards dog leg right, with 
out of bounds down the right hand side, and the club house, and 
village down the left.

For the Home Internationals, the rough had been allowed to grow 
to about two feet;  the fairways were cut to be exactly 25 yards 
wide; virtually every hole had a carry of 190-200 yards to the 
start of the fairway; even the par threes are 200 yards long with 
very small tightly bunkered greens; and all holes are into the 
wind (there is a bit poetic licence here, but hopefully you get 
the picture).  The course is incredibly flat with no landmarks to 
give any indication of distance.  The rough is so thick that I 
could barely hit a 9 iron more than 20 yards out of it.

I could talk you through every shot I hit, but believe me it was 
tough.  I must have lost 4 balls and struggled to break 120.  The 
best score on the day was 77.  (This puts Iain Pyman's scores in 
the Open in perspective, a wonderful result for an amateur).  
When I play Hoylake again, I'll play off the front tees. I've 
learnt my lesson.  It is the toughest course I've played and 
would recommend the experience to anyone.

However, the best is yet to come.  The clubhouse is absolutely 
fantastic.  Harold Hilton was a member at Hoylake.  The trophy 
cabinets contain all the medals he won, including the original 
medals for winning the Open.  I can't remember the total, but 
there are about 45 British Amateur, English Amateur and British 
Open Medals dating from the turn of the century.  Bobby Jones won 
The Open at Hoylake, and there are pictures of his win 
everywhere.  Roberto Divechenso's -spelling is definitely wrong- 
record score of 63 is on the wall.  The place is absolutely 
steeped in tradition and history.  And the best thing about it is 
that anyone can walk in, have a good look around and play the 
course.  No snobbery, no status.  In the car park, everyone is 
equal with no reserved space for the captain, secretary, 
president...

I'd recommend Hoylake to anyone.  A great day out, just take 
plenty of balls.

Randall.

P.S.  Jack I have a stroke saver / yardage chart of the course.  
If you give me your mailstop/location code, I'll pop it in the 
post, if you want it ? 

P.P.S. Interesting little known fact.  The amateur course record 
of my club, Cheadle is 64, held by a huge hitter called Gordon 
Brown.  The amateur course record at Hoylake is 64 held by the 
same Gordon Brown.  Gordon plays off scratch, 0.3 to be exact and 
is equally at home at our club and Hoylake.  Not a lot of people 
know that.

Randall, 

I've got a great suggestion, we give you a note - all of your own - 
entitled 'Boring for Scotland'. Think of the advantages, you could 
ramble to your hearts content, answer your own mails and more 
importantly the rest of the world would be able to enjoy the notes file 
without reading your war stories.

Jack,  Will you please stop winding Randall up to tell you how wide the 
fairways are on every course he's ever played - just remember that there 
are a few of us who have to listen to how great he played, together with 
a full description of every blade of grass, every bad lie, every green, 
every tricky putt, what irons he took where etc, etc, etc without the 
option of logging out of notes. I get it in real life !!

You are dealing with a man here who can send the worlds greatest 
insomniac to sleep before he gets to the first tee, he's prescibed by 
every doctor in the UK as a substitute for Mogadon (well known sleeping 
tablet) and is the captain of the Scottish boring team in the next 
olympics.

Please, give Randall a note of his own !!   


Andy

(We love you really Randy)

    Allen is from Norwood Ma and migrated south after his hs,college years.
    
    I think he played some hockey too, possibly a year at bc.
    
    So that may explain his "oddness" to the Georgia Amateur Golf
    bureaucrats (He's a typical yankee).
    
    Bill