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Conference 7.286::golf

Title:Welcome to the Golf Notes Conference!
Notice:FOR SALE notes in Note 69 please! Intros in note 863 or 61.
Moderator:FUNYET::ANDERSON
Created:Tue Feb 15 1994
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2129
Total number of notes:21499

1556.0. "The tour pro swing" by OBRIEN::kevin (Certifiable golfer) Thu Jul 30 1992 13:45

As threatened, I thought that I would give my impressions of the tour pros
swings.  I had a chance to spend about an hour at the practice tee the other
day, to watch several different tour pros, club pros and amateurs hit balls.
Watching the amateurs. I saw some VERY interesting golf swings.  I'm trying
hard to forget because I DO NOT want those images in my mind the next time I
get a chance to play.  The swings of the tour pros however are something that
I want to remember.  Here are my impressions:

The set up varies from player to player.  For the most part it is exactly as
outlined in Hogan's book on the swing with some minor differences.  They mostly
grip the club with the V's pointing to the chin.  (except Fred Funk who has a
somewhat stronger right hand)  Their feet are planted FIRMLY on the ground.
By this I mean that when they bend their knees (squat) the weight is evenly
distributed on the arches of both feet.  (The days of 60/40 to the right with
the driver and left with the wedge seem to be gone at last.)  That never made
sense to me because every sport I ever played, you wanted your weight evenly
distributed on the middle of your feet for good balance.  The amatuers never
did get their feet set before the swing so at the end of the swing they
couldn't "hold the pose".  I've heard teaching pros telling people to hold the
finish for a 3 count because their balance was bad.  Well that's real hard to
do if you don't start out correctly.  The thing that the pros did that was
different than Hogan, was the width of their stance.  Hogan suggests that the
feet (inside to inside) should be shoulder width with the driver.  For the most
part they were not that wide.  They were all different indicating to me that
being comfortable was more important provided you could keep the weight in the
inside of the feet during the swing.  As for the foot position, it was all
classic Hogan, back foot perpendicular to the line and front foot turned out.

The take away seemed to have 2 different schools.  There is the classic 1 piece
where the left shoulder, arm and club all start together.  (Rocco Mediate is a
prime example).  Then there is a school where the clubhead starts back (with
the hands I'd guess) just before the shoulder starts.  (David Peoples)  The
speed of the backswing is different for each player.  Some fast, some slow and
there was even 1 that I thought would break the sound barrier.  Slow and easy
was by far the most popular.  The key to me here though was proper tempo.  We
all talk about tempo and how to maintain it.  Well what they seem to do is to
start the downswing just slightly faster than the end of the backswing.  This
allows them to accelerate the club through the shot, maintain proper balance
and generate much more clubhead speed than the amatuers.  (We all remember the
study where the amature golfer achieves maximum clubhead speed at the beginning
of the downswing while the pro's it after impact)  This seems to add up in my
mind.  The amatuers started the club down by jerking it down with the left
shoulder as opposed to starting it down with the left hand.  I plead guilty to
this which now that I play so infrequently, explains why I'd have trouble
hitting a bull in the a** with a shovel let alone that tiny little golf ball.
Anyway the message is to start the downswing with the same pace as ending the
backswing.

At the top of the backswing some players (J. Boros) would drop the club getting
a little extra wrist cock.  The guys who did this (the minority) would pause to
resync the timing of the swing.  (Even Daly pauses)  It doesn't appeal to me
but I suppose if you hit 500 balls a day you can do it!  Rocco Mediate does
this and every once in a while, he really kills it.  He's always long and
mostly in play so you have to wonder if 'every once in a while' is worth it.
His problem is he can't putt.  He's got to be one of the worst putters on tour.

After that there isn't much else to their swings that is of any note.  Of course
they gerenate tremendous clubhead speed with their legs and hands. They don't
pull their shoulders up out of plane until the momentum of the club does it
for them  (Staying down sound familiar?)  I suspect that we amatuers are
fighting the ball going right and they are fighting it going left.  These
simple things that they do at address and starting the downswing, seems to
square up the clubface for them so all they have to do is hit and hunt it.

If on my September trip to the Boston area you'd like to sit at my feet and
hear me go on about the pro golf swing, I'll meet you at the hotel bar. :-) :-)
Bring your credit card as I don't get out much anymore. :-}


                                                KO
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
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1556.1thxWALTA::LENEHANpar-taking in par makingThu Jul 30 1992 14:336
    
    thanks Kevin
    
    	excellent report
    
    	Walta
1556.2the only "secret" is sound fundamentals...!!TRLIAN::GORDONThu Jul 30 1992 15:541
    
1556.3" Hunt for the perfect result "KIRKTN::DMILNELet Mi Oot.Thu Jul 30 1992 18:1515
    Very good article...
    
    I had a chance to watch the top pro's in action at the British Open
    and in my opinion most of them swing slow and easy...yet still get 
    tremendous distance and accuracy....
    
    It still baffles me how they can swing so easy and still generate
    so much power....
    
    There must be something to be said for "having good timing and tempo"
    
    
    
    Still searching in vain.........
    
1556.47 B's - Bulk Behind Ball, Body Behind Belt BuckleWOTVAX::MORRISONFri Jul 31 1992 10:3568
Great report on the PRO's swings. You're absolutely right about 
the set-up and weight.  

I know you see some wondrous body shapes on a golf course, but 
golf is actually an athletic sport.  The keys are balance, timing 
and movement.  During the set-up, the weight should be on the 
balls of the feet.  In his book, "The Winning Formula", Nick 
Faldo describes perfectly, how your weight moves in the golf 
swing.  BTW his book is excellent.  He goes into minute detail 
about every inch of his swing.

Nick states, and I would urge you to stand up *now* and try this, 
that the swing is all about weight transference.  At the top of 
the back-swing, all his weight in on his right heel.  At the end 
of his follow-through, all his weight is on the ball of his left 
foot.  Liken the swing to say a discus thrower.  In that sport, 
the thrower coils round on his hind, right leg, then explodes 
onto his left leg.  Think of a 100 metre runner - take steroids 
:-), no - in the blocks his weight is on the back foot, and he 
explodes onto the front foot.

Freddie (Couples) advocates the same.  He actually increases his 
power, by slightly flexing his right knee, and turns his body 
over and round it.  You shouldn't dip your shoulders into the 
turn - and again I urge you to stand up and try this -  flex the 
right knee, and rotate your body round onto it on the back swing.  
Pause for a moment, and feel the power coiled up in that right 
knee.  You should almost be able to lift your left leg without 
falling over.  Now explode off and through your right knee, just 
like the discus and 100 metre boys.  Be athletic.  That's what I 
mean by

      BULK BEHIND BALL

The weight transference onto the left leg ensures that whatever 
your physique, you get the maximum power.  I think there is a 
famous law, Murphy's or something, which says  m1v1 = m2v2

Exploding off the right leg, normally means that you end up off 
balance at the end of the follow through.  That's where

      BODY BEHIND BELT BUCKLE

comes in.  Having coiled up and round the right leg on the back 
swing, the technique is to uncoil on an axis through the middle 
of your body.  Keeping your Body Behind your Belt Buckle ensures 
that you don't sway forward onto your left leg , and that you 
don't rush through with your shoulders..

Trust me, I'm in Software Services.  Turning, not tilting, nor 
swaying, onto the right heel, and exploding off the right knee 
onto the ball of the left foot - try it - gives full weight 
transference.  Staying behind the belt buckle ensures you don't 
rush past the ball with your body before your arms, hands and 
clubs hit it.

To help me remember this, I have a mental picture of this simple 
swing thought:-


   7 B's = Bulk Behind Ball, Body Behind Belt Buckle

In my view, that's where the PRO's get their power.  By keeping 
their weight behind the ball at all times.  Being a 
five-stone-weakingly myself, I need every ounce.

Randall (who doesn't believe in the GRIP IT 'N RIP IT theory)
1556.5If I could only drive consistently...INDEV1::GSMITHI need two of everythingMon Aug 03 1992 17:128
    
    	Kevin...
    
    	What's the thinking behing pointing the left foot out? I am
    	having big problems off the tee lately and it seems to me that
    	doing this may help. Better follow-thru?
    
    		Smitty
1556.6Works SOMEtimes...MRKTNG::VARLEYTue Aug 04 1992 10:199
    It helps get your weight through - especially if you make a lateral
    move & turn, like the better players (everybody oughtta do it - but
    it's beyond the abilities of a lot of players). However, if you're a
    "spinner," or "pull hooker," you're better off with the front foot
    pointed perpendicular to the line of flight. Ahhh, what the hell do I
    know, since moving into our new/old house, I haven't swung a club. I
    can't WAIT to start - back to ole "square one..."
    
    --Jack
1556.7Easy way to check.WOTVAX::MORRISONTue Aug 04 1992 10:3214
Smitty,

Try this one.  Rather than point your left foot out, point it in.    
Assume that your left foot is the little hand on a watch face. 12 
o'clock is your left foot pointing at 90 degrees to the target 
line. "Out" is 10:30, then "in" is 2 o'clock. 

Take a full driver swing, and let rip.  If you tear the ligaments 
out of your left knee, the problem with your driving has nothing 
to do with your left foot set up.  Try it and let's know how you 
get on.

Randall ;-}
1556.8OBRIEN::kevinCertifiable golferTue Aug 04 1992 13:2313
Smitty,

	Pointing the left foot out at address is, as Jack said, to help with the 
weight transfer so you can turn around the left side instead of falling over.
Turning the foot to "2:00 o'clock" will turn the fiendish grin upside down
in a hurry. Just thinking about it hurts. :-(

	I do recommend getting Hogan's book, it does a wonderful job of 
explaining the swing.



						KO
1556.9Hogan vs. LeadbetterMLTVAX::WOODRUFFMon Aug 10 1992 15:395
    
    I believe Nick Faldo is a student of David Leadbetter. How does
    his teaching compare to Hogan ?
    
    	Bruce w.
1556.10careful with that term...TRLIAN::GORDONMon Aug 10 1992 16:164
    re: .9
    
    Hogan was not a "teacher" he wrote a couple of books which formed
    the basis for many who "teach" the game...IMHO