Conference 7.286::golf

    us open at olympia in San Francisco
    
    british open at St. Andrews
    
    
    PGA at (pick one).....
    
    
    my 2 cents
    

    
    I think the US Open this year lacked the excitement, if you want to 
    call it that, since no one made any kind of move against the 
    leaders on Sunday.  Everyone likes to see Birdies, over the weekend
    you saw 2 guys shoot par and +1 and come out with a 4 shot lead on 
    Sat, then shoot par again and still have the lead. Then the playoff
    was not a birdie match either.  Sure it was very hard golf, a tough
    course with wind, but people like to see birdies and big last day
    charges. This is what made the masters so strong this year was the 
    3 man battle and Watson's Sunday charge.
    
    Augusta, though a very beautiful course is a course that a person can
    build up a good Sunday afternoon charge, and if he screws up it will
    kill him.  Hazletine is a course where a Sunday afternoon charge was
    parring in the last 3 holes.
    
    I say keep the opens moving around, I like seeing the different
    courses.
    
    --Bob
    

    One of the things that I marveled at this weekend, was how good the
    players really are at adapting their games to an unfamiliar course.
    Everybody knows Augusta National and knows what to expect.  At the OPEN
    when weather conditions change, you not only have to change your game
    but also change the way you play the course.  At a familiar course
    that's easy (not for me but for the good players), but at a course you
    don't play it's very difficult.  Such a test truely brings out the best
    players.  I say keep moving them around!
    
    
    
    						KO

I believe that each of the majors has it's own philosophy in how to determine a 
champion.  The USGA's philosophy is that the course is set up so tough that 
lesser men fall by the wayside & the last one still shooting par (or closest to
it) is the champion.  It's not exciting, but it is a great test of golf.  
Especially when the greens are as fast as Augusta, the fairways narrow, and the 
rough deeper than my front yard after a two week vacation.

I couldn't pick only one course to play our national championship on.  There 
are so many great ones.  Courses favor different types of players.  Always 
staying at the same course would rule out certain players.  (Like faders @ the 
Masters).  I say keep them moving.

Besides which one would you pick?  Pebble Beach, no Marion, no Winged Foot, no 
how about Cherry Hills?  

Larry

    re: .4
    
    ...rule out certain players (like faders@masters)?????
    
    is that why Nicklaus has won there 6 times...seems he's a fader
    of the golf ball...I feel the BEST golfers can play golf shots
    and that means being able to move the ball either way...they
    rise to the top no matter what the course favors....
    
    the reason you have no superstars today is IMHO...
    
    the us tour golfers aren't forced to play in tough conditions...
    
    make them play on US Open condition golf courses all the time and
    after 5 years you'll see the best golfers rise to the top....
    
    

    re .5
    
    >is that why Nicklaus has won there 6 times...seems he's a fader
    >of the golf ball...I feel the BEST golfers can play golf shots
    >and that means being able to move the ball either way...they
    >rise to the top no matter what the course favors....
    
    Ask Lee Trevino about this, in his day he was one of the best, he
    has never won the masters, nor come close, why, because he fades.
    
    The statement in .4 about faders is correct, as a generalization. As
    such there are always exceptions like Nicklause, then again I believe
    Nicklaus could have won 6 masters if it were played in someones living
    room, or a mine field.
    
    You want the best golfers to rise to the top. Simple, cut the prize
    money in half. An "average tour golfer" (what is that :-) ) makes
    a very healthy living and never has to win. Make it so that htey
    have to play very well to make lots of money. I remember when Tom
    Watson make $500K in one year and it was a big thing, now there are
    always a few who approach or exceed $1million.  Make them fight for 
    survival and the best will come to the top.
    
    --Bob
    

	All the Majors are quite different.  The US Open demands accuracy more
than anything else, but also because it moves from course to course, ( and I
really like the idea of doing so ), it demands you can adapt your game to the
many different types of courses, and can shoot a low round when the conditions
are very good, but also can stay close to par when they are not.  The Brittish
Open, plays more on links courses that are usually more wide open, putting a
bigger demand on distance off the tee than accuracy.  But it also requires you
to be able to deal with extreme weather conditions, especially wind.  The
Masters, I'm still convinced, requires a great putter and a player who can draw
the ball consistantly and accurately.  The golfer who tames the par 5's at 
Augusta, will be right there on Sunday, with a chance to win it.  The PGA ranks
4th in my mind, behind the above 3, which all rank as great tests of skill and
provide the greatest entertainment to fans.

Beak

    Personally, I love to see a guy trying to blast a 4 iron out of 5 inch 
    rough, then scramble to try to save par. The way to make a run at 
    the U.S. open is to make a bunch of pars... not too exciting on your 
    typical Buick Open type of course, but when you see the shots these
    guys have to hit just to make par, I think's it's great to watch. I 
    like to see the best golfers get a real challenge... I think that's 
    why the US Open is #1. I do think it should continue to move around, 
    if it stayed in one place it would favor some players...
    
    
    
    Greg

    Ask Lee Trevino about this, in his day he was one of the best, he
    has never won the masters, nor come close, why, because he fades.
    
    } he was one of the best but only on certain courses....the courses
    } that favored a golfer who fades...he couldn't/wouldn't change his
    } game to adapt to the conditions...Nicklaus gives good explanations
    } of this in his book Golf My Way...
    }
    }		...I feel the BEST golfers can play golf shots
    } and that means being able to move the ball either way...they
    } rise to the top no matter what the course favors....
    }
    } Hogan was one who was a fader when he was in his prime, and
    } he won at the masters, of course he could also move the ball
    } either way..!!I'm sure there were others also...


    The statement in .4 about faders is correct, as a generalization. As
    such there are always exceptions like Nicklause, then again I believe
    Nicklaus could have won 6 masters if it were played in someones living
    room, or a mine field.
    
    } the exceptions are the golfers like Bobby Jones, Ben Hogan, Byron
    } Nelson, Sam Snead...I call them the true superstars of the game
    } because they could move the ball either way...they rise to the top
    } no matter what the course favors....and they did it consistantly...


    You want the best golfers to rise to the top. Simple, cut the prize
    money in half. An "average tour golfer" (what is that :-) ) makes
    a very healthy living and never has to win. Make it so that htey
    have to play very well to make lots of money. I remember when Tom
    Watson make $500K in one year and it was a big thing, now there are
    always a few who approach or exceed $1million.  Make them fight for 
    survival and the best will come to the top.

    } I agree and also do away with the top 125...go back to Monday
    } qualifying for all but top 20 on money list....    

Re: .5
    
>    the reason you have no superstars today is IMHO...
    
>    the us tour golfers aren't forced to play in tough conditions...
    
>    make them play on US Open condition golf courses all the time and
>    after 5 years 

From logic class you have proposed a contradiction.  Your premise, American
golfers aren't superstars.  You propose that playing in US Open conditions
would develop superstars.  How is it then that Americans domiate the US Open?

I agree that if the conditions were tougher, and that it was harder to make a 
"good" living that American golfers golf games would reflect being "tempered by 
fire".  I love the US Open, ABC's coverage is superb, but...it would be
incredibly boring if they played in those conditions every week!


Larry

>From logic class you have proposed a contradiction.  Your premise, American
>golfers aren't superstars.  You propose that playing in US Open conditions
>would develop superstars.  How is it then that Americans domiate the US Open?


My guess is that because there aren't any superstars anymore...the other guess
would be sheer numbers....and I don't recall proposing that to develop 
superstars play US open conditions...to develop better golfers yes...

Any prize for a correct guess?..;^)


>	  I love the US Open, ABC's coverage is superb, but...it would be
>incredibly boring if they played in those conditions every week!

I agree with the first part, the boring part is relative to each individual...

    
    RE.0
    
    I totally agree.......The US Masters is the FIRST major tournament of
                          the year,Why ? Because it is in MAY.
    
    How can this short-sighted Donkey possibly say that very few unknown
    names are there ???
    
    Who the hell are Henke,Gallagher,Weibring,Love,Brown,Sieckman,Brooks
    Rummells,Kamm,Clearwater,Gardner,Humenik,Rinker,Gotsche,Snodgrass etc.
    
    All household names no doubt, I bet you know who Eamon Darcy is though.
    
    If the British Open was Invited and Limited these No-No's would stay
    in Bed.
    
    It's people like you that let the Good guys down.
    
    
    
    AMBASSADOR OF EUROPEAN GOLF.
                                
    

    Re .12
    
    
    Hang on, hang on.....
    
    
    I think that's a bit over the top, calling some of the US players
    No-No's! If you followed golf on both sides of the Atlantic you would
    know that Nolan Henke, Mark Brooks and Davis Love III have all won
    USPGA Tour events this year. So it's not as though these guys can't
    play. Take a check on some of the reports in Note 833.190-220 for
    evidence of this. 
    
    I sympathise with you in your obvious feeling that there are not enough
    of our European Tour players who get the opportunity to play in, say, 
    the Masters and I agree we should see the likes of Darcy, Torrance, 
    Brand Jnr, etc over there. 
    
    You're not doing your chances of staying in the European Embassy a lot
    of good by such slating remarks!
    
    
    Phil. 
    

    Re. 10
    I know why U.S. players dominate the U.S. Open. Well it's obvious
    European golfers would dominate THE OPEN ie the British one if only 7
    U.S. players were allowed. Which defies the description of Open
    competition.
    
    RE.12. I am inclined to agree. The Masters is devalued when some
    unknowns are allowed to play at the expense of better golfers wherever
    they be. If Hord Hardin really wants The Masters to live up to it's
    name. Make everyone qualify or issued more invites to golfers not on
    the U.S. tour.
    
    Regs.
    
    Barry.
    
    
    

    
    RE.13
    
    Nolan Henke & Mark Brooks ??
    
    They would'nt get in my clubs Scratch team.
    
    
    You will have to do better than that.
    
    AMBASSADOR
    ==========

    Re: .14
    
>   I know why U.S. players dominate the U.S. Open. Well it's obvious
>   European golfers would dominate THE OPEN ie the British one if only 7
>   U.S. players were allowed. Which defies the description of Open
>   competition.
    
    I agree with you on the definition of 'OPEN' but it's not 'only 7'
    europeans allowed. 7 is the guaranteed number. Here's the Exemption
    categories used for the open. (62 players):
    
    	 1. U.S. Open Champions of the last 10 years
    	 2. 1990 U.S. Amateur Champion
    	 3. PGA Championship winners of the last five years
    	 4. British Open Champions of the last five years
    	 5. Masters Champions for the years 1987 through 1991
    	 6. Winner of the 1991 Players Championship
    	 7. The 1990 U.S. Senior Open Champion
    	 8. In the 1990 U.S. Open, the 15 lowest scorers and and ties
    	    for the 15th place
    	 9. Thirty leaders on the PGA Tour official money-winners
    	    list for 1990, excluding those listed above
    	10. Ten leaders on the PGA Tour official money-winners
    	    list from Jan. 1, 1991 to the close of entries on April 24,
    	    1991
    	11. USGA reserves the right to issue a maximum of seven exemptions
    	    to foreign players not otherwise exempt
    	12. USGA reserves the right to issue a maximum of three special 
    	    exemptions
    
    For example Seve was exempted with category 4, Faldo 4,5 & 8,
    Olazabal 8 and Woosnam 5. So although the criteria does favor
    US players it's not because they want to restrict european players,
    because it's mostly based on performance on the US tournaments.
    
    Regards

    Re -.1
    
    
    Can someone post what the equivalent entry regulations are for the OPen
    Championship. It would be a useful comparison to make. 
    
    It seems that the way into the US Open relies on the European players
    actually playing much of their golf in the US and qualifying with a
    good placing on the Money List. It doesn't seem like many players
    outside the 'well-known' Europeans get much of a shot at it. 
    
    It also seems that there are a lot of USPGA Tour players who play in
    the Open Championship. Are the entry rules less stringent?
    
    
    Phil.

    Augusta National is the ULTIMATE golf course in my opinion.  Nothing
    compares to it, or comes remotely close.  If you read on the
    maintenance of the course before the first player tees up, it is
    flawless.  I would mortgage my house to play that course.  No, wait, I
    would sell my fiance to play the course.
    
    ILOVEGOLF
    bob
    

    
    
    RE .17
    
     Not too sure of the entry qualifications for THE OPEN but I seem to
    remember that the top 30 players on the US tour gain automatic entry
    to the competition.
    
       Danny.
    

    re.17
    
    Coincidentally, after reading the qualifications for the US Open I
    decided to bring in my programme from the 1989 Open which I attended.
    
    The exemption categories are :-
    
    1) First 25 and ties in previous years c'ship.
    2) Champions for previous 10 years.
    3) All past champions under 65.
    4) First 50 on Sony World Ranking List.
    5) First 20 and ties of previous years European Tour money list.
    6) First 5 and ties,who aren't already exempt, in Euro list at end of
       May of the championship year.
    7) British Amateur champions for previous and current years.
    8) Last 10 US Open champions including this years.
    9) Previous three USPGA champions
    10) Previous three Masters champions.
    11) Last three British PGA champions.
    12) Last three US Players champions.
    13) First 20 and ties on previous years US Tour money list.
    14) First 5 and ties, who aren't already exempt, on US Tour list at end  
    	of May of the championship year.
    15) Last two US Amateur champions.
    16) Previous years Canadian Open champion.
    17) First two and ties on Asian circuit for the current year.
    18) First three and ties on Australasian circuit for previous year.
    19) First three and ties on Japanese circuit for previous year.
    20) First two and ties on South African circuit for the current year.
    21) First 5 not already exempt who finish in the top 25 of the Scottish
    Open for the current year ( usually the last event before the Open ).
    
    Martin

    Re.20
    
    
    Martin,
    
    
    Now that's what I call an Open!!!
    
    
    Phil.

    
    RE.18
    
    I'll give you a Tenner for your Fiance,or, you can have my Tony Penna 
    4 Wood !!!
    
    Decisions Decisions.
    
    
    
    AMBASSADOR
    ========== 

    
    
    Really enjoyed watching the coverage of the U.S Open across here(Scotland)
    (and yes I do live near St.Andrews but no I don't know your Uncle Jock)
    
    ...but...one thing really started to get on my nerves was the guy who
    always managed to get close enough to the recording mic so that everyone 
    could here him shout..."get in the hole"..."birdie time"...and "way to go"
    apparently a milliseconed after the clubhead makes contact with the ball.
    	Is this a common thing that happens across there, if so, I hope it
    doesn't catch on across hear.
    
    	I reckon if Scott Simpson missed the ball completly on the Tee the
    same guy would still have shouted...!
    
                                                

    
      re: "Go in the hole"  "YOU the man"  "birdie time" etc.
    
       I don't believe it is one person but several ding dongs that do
    this.  It is definitely getting worse and I have a theory about why
    we are seeing more of this.  With a VCR in almost every home, what
    better way to impose yourself in a major sporting event than to set
    the VCR at home to tape the open, head to the course, find the mic-
    rophone set near the tee markers, and yell at the top of your lungs
    when everyone else is quiet.  After the tournament, throw a party
    where you can invite other dorks over to watch the open again and
    say to your dork friends, "hey guys, listen closely just after
    Irwin hits this ball......Whack.YOU THE MAN!!!...... giggle giggle.
    
       These idiots have a chance to really make fools out of themselves
    though.  Like the dingleberry who yelled "BIRDIE TIME"  when Simpson
    pull hooked a four iron into the water on the 17th.   It's getting
    embarrassing.....
    
    -rick
    
          
    

    Re -.1
    
    
    Rick,
    
    I think this breed should be sought out, labelled and barred from ever
    going near a golf course again! It's hard to believe that they can
    really love the true game. 
    
    I bet one day they get their timing wrong and shout before impact. You
    can just imagine the response of guys like Strange, Faldo or Calcavecchia 
    if this happened to them. They'd all need new drivers ( you get more
    twists round the neck with the longer clubs !)
    
    Phil.

    I've just realised what happened to Prince William last month. He was
    playing golf at school and he yelled 'get in the hole' when the
    un-named individual hit a particularly bad slice. The individual then
    showed his 'appreciation' by burying his 8 iron in the Royal cranium...
    
    Paul
    
    (I assume this news event of world-wide significance made it to other
    the other side of the Altantic, after all it relegated civil war, Iraq,
    recession, etc to last place in our News.)

    
    Re-1
    
    Not before time...watch the "birdie" William.
    
    

    You the man!!!
    
    I agree, this is dumb.  But why is it that a field goal kicker can kick
    with 60,000 people yelling, a baskeball player can shoot freethrows
    with people waving pin-ups behind the backboard and a baseball player
    can hit a 90+ mph fastball with some drunk yelling "your mother looks
    like Madonna" but a golfer or a tennis player has to have total silence
    to perform?  We have a golf tournament here in Orange County during a
    week calledd Irrelevant Week.  It is a festivity to honor the last
    player chosen in the NFL draft (a totally irrelevant position and
    usually does not make the team).  The golf format includes holes where
    you play a par three for time and score.  The record is a 20 second
    birdie.  Another hole has hecklers that stand around the green and yell
    and throw water ballons while you putt.  Maybe this should be a
    required tournament to receive a tour card... faster play , thicker
    skin.
    
    SCD

    
    Hi SCD,
    
    	The same question has crossed my mind before;
    
    	I think the only reason golfers and tennis players have
    	a distraction problem, is that they play both sports
    	from day one, in a noise free environment. If you were
    	walking through a crowd during a rock and roll concert and
    	someone near you yelled "HEY!" you wouldn't flinch. But if 
    	you were in the forest walking down a path, and someone 
    	behind a tree yelled "Hey!" ... you'd be changing your
    	underware :) !
    
    		Walta
    
    

    Thanks Walta,
    
    Figured someone would offer that as a reason.  I'm sure it is true. 
    Guess the primadonnas and mouths like McEnroe in tennis and Hale Irwin
    and Curtis Strange in golf get to me.  I'm an ex-baseball player who
    couldn't hit thr 90+ fastball in total quiet must less on TV.  
    
    I found out like you that your golf score changes when you sign up for
    the amateur championships...but they are fun.  My problem is that here
    in SoCal they make you play at LH(lowest Handicap) for the last 12
    months.  If your game is heading in the wrong direction by mid summer,
    you have an additional burden to carry.
    
    Guess another reason for no noise could be the proximity to the
    players.  Only in golf does a fan get so close, and tennis is not far
    away either.  Still like the tourney concept out here...they call it
    the Run-n-Gun.  We have another variation of golf where you are given 6
    balls, a course laid out across a mountain range and desert and are
    expected to bring all 6 balls back.  You need four spotters, a snake
    bite kit and some old clubs.
    
    SCD

    Re: Couple back
    
    I feel the fans should be able to yell after the player
    hits ball.  I think the "Golf Community" needs to lighten
    up a little.
    
    Ken
    
    

    
       I agree, cheer all you want in support of your favorite player at
     a tournament.  But there is a difference between yelling support and
     yelling to draw attention to yourself.  Next thing you know, golf fans
     will feel that they have a right to yell *at* and heckle players.  
    
       The sportsmanship demonstrated by players and fans throughout golf's
     history has raised it several notches above any other sport. It would
     be a shame to lose that.  
    
    -rick  

    Why??
    
    Why is it OK to heckle and embarass a baseball player making 3+million
    a year but it is not OK to yell at a golfer?  Why does a baseball
    players life and times get played out in the newspaper, but a golfer's
    life is private?  Why can a golfer drink and carouse and it is O.K. but
    all other sports figures are suspect for this behavior?
    
    SCD

    Re: .33
    
    I think the reason is where each sport originated.  Golf originated as
    a royal game.  It's alway been referred as a gentleman's game, although
    lately it's starting to look as an outdoor bowling.

Hey, let's not start picking on Bowling !!!!


Jim

>    Why??
    
>    Why is it OK to heckle and embarass a baseball player making 3+million
>    a year but it is not OK to yell at a golfer?  Why does a baseball
>    players life and times get played out in the newspaper, but a golfer's
>    life is private?  Why can a golfer drink and carouse and it is O.K. but
>    all other sports figures are suspect for this behavior?
    

       There are several strong reasons.

        1)  The pro golfer's salary is not guaranteed.  A <insert other sport>
            player signs a contract and is guaranteed that salary for x number
            of years.  It's harder to be critical of a golfer that one errant
            shot or one missed putt could cost him thousands of dollars. 
            Golfers pay their own expenses, or have to enlist sponsors to pay
            their expenses.  Try asking Roger Clemens to do the same.

        2)  Golf fans are on the playing field with the competitors. The
            competitors are "armed" with iron clubs.  You start yelling at
            Craig Stadler who is 10 feet away from you.  Well, you figure it
            out....  ;^)

        3)  Golf is not a team sport.  A golfer is only playing for himself
            and not the fans or his team.  If a golfer drinks and carouses,
            his performance will suffer and he will disappear off the face
            of the golfing world.  A baseball player does the same, and now
            there is an impact to his team and the fans.

        I'm sure there are a lot more good solid common sense reasons that 
      others can chip in with.

-rick
    

    Seems to me that the first two statements in .36 apply to baseball or
    any other sport.  You give up a home run and you may be pitching in
    the minors tomorrow.  True you have this contract, but many time it is
    conditional on you being with the Major League Franchise.  In any case,
    it is only a matter of time differential between the golfer and the
    baseball player, that the money changes.  
    
    True, baseball is a team sport. But drink and carouse and your career
    goes down the drain.  Remember there are only about 600+ Major League
    Ballplayers and there are thousands ready to help a team, so yes you do
    affect the team, but watch how fast you can be replaced.
    
    Let's not forget that some of that yelling is positive support of our
    favorite.  I'll yell when I feel its appropriate(and yes, I have
    applauded in church).
    
    Big Mac 

    So picture it....
    
    
    Final hole of a major. You have a few �/$ riding on your man to get a
    par to clinch it. BTW the odds were 40-1! 
    
    All he has to do is hit the fairway.... a nice 1 iron would be ideal.
    No risks with the driver. But no he's going with Big Bertha. You can't
    believe it and so you shout 'Hey XXXX, don't be a fool you shouldn't
    be using that...take a 1 iron for safety' But he ignores you and his
    drive ends up in a wood with no shot. You say 'I told you, you **!!$$�
    *$%^&3!, don't you listen. You just cost me thousands of �/$'.
    
    
    Next thing you remember is having the pre-med jab in a fleshy part of
    your anatomy.... 8^)
    
    
    No I can't see it happening in the Royal and Ancient game either !!
    
    
    Phil.
    

    re:36
     Good points rick.  Guess that means that during the Ryder cup(team
    concept) we ugly Americans can heckle the heck out of the European
    team?
    
    SCD

    Re: 38
    
    This comes from a part of the world that has riots at soccer games and
    thousands get crushed.  Probably not a good idea to allow yelling at
    golf matches, especially because of the parimutual opportunities.. Here
    on the other side of the ocean we only have to contend with college and
    pros betting on themselves...Europe is much more gentile.
    
    Can you picture this...three after the rule change to allow heckling,
    Fuzzy Zoeller misses a putt for the win at the Royal&Ancient, and he
    complains afterword to the press that just as he went to putt, the
    gallery got quiet and the silence disturbed his concentration.
    
    SCD

    
    Re.40
    
    I found your opening sentence very distastful in-light of the number
    of innocent people who have lost their lives in such incidents as you
    are relating to, not only in this country but abroad as well.
    	...as regards contending with College, I take it you didn't contend
    to well in the subject of common sense.
    
    ...back to the subject,
    	Is it not written in the "rules" of golf etiquette the behaviour
    expected from players on the course, especially on the Tee regards
    when another player is teeing off. You won't see any Pro's, or Amateurs
    talking(let alone shouting...!), fidgeting, infact he'll do nothing
    that may put of his opponent. Is it then not fair to expect the
    spectators to adhere to the same conduct.
    	
    	I've heard it said on many occasions that the conduct of players
    ON the field has a great effect on crowd disorder OFF the field. This
    appears to be the opposite in golf.
    
    
                              

    re:41
    
    The purpose ...assuming you have read more than one response in this
    file, is that the reasons for not allowing noise should not associated
    with the fact that Europe allows parimututal betting on golf.  In fact
    that is the last reason to allow or not allow such behavior.  Add to
    the fact that sports in general take on a much different and
    international flavor in Europe and you have  maybe a different basis
    for making or not making noise.  Of course, I did major in Common Sense
    (written by Thomas Payne, I believe) and I even had a secondary degree in
    Sense of Humor...something that escapes many golfers and even some
    notesfilers.
    
    Golf is not a microcosm of life and is meant to be a game.  Some do not
    treat it as such, even though their skills dictate they should.  Others
    have lifted it to such a high position that it becomes sacreligious to
    speak of it in less than enamoring terms. Golfers can be some of the
    most ingracious, non-humorous impolite self righteous people...I do not
    intend to ever be placed in those categories.  Thank you very much.
    
    SCD  
    

    
    
    ...Maybe I should forget the golf and take up fishing...because I've
    certainly reeled you in hook, line and sinker...why be humourous when
    you can pretend to be serious and have a good laugh at replies like
    yours...:-)))))